I actually agree with it for the most part too, although I don't write of DSBM as a whole, and I love some of Xasthur's stuff as well. The anti-outsiders posturing in 2018 is just hilarious to me. Hipsters don't GET metal, man!

Not to mention the fact that tons of respected and "true" black metal acts are far from compelling songwriters and composers. Take Drudkh, for example. As much as I love some of their music, a lot of their songs are just 8 bars copy and pasted over and over, next section is the same, rinse and repeat.

I always thought it was funny and on the nose that the BM bands that got a lot of hip press around that time were the three that were on or referenced on Sunn O)))'s 'Black One' (Xasthur, Leviathan, Striborg). I'm thinking of that one-man BM documentary in particular. The point of reference was so obvious.

On Lurker of Chalice: No, I haven't got around to it but I should because others have told me that it's way better than Leviathan.

Someone told me syphilis is better than AIDS.

I wonder if that's true.

Idk about that. Doesn’t make sense to compare them though, they’re both just Wrest. I’d say if you dig one you are obliged to check out the other.

What possible reason could you have for disliking Leviathan/LOC? Enlighten us please

The LOC I've listened to sounded like a sludge band playing black metal and Leviathan sounded like a DSBM DSO. That's why I don't like it. Those descriptions may sound great to you, of course.

LOL @ the DSO mentions here. SMRC didn't come out until the "orthodox" thing was already winding down, and "Fas..." was again several years behind the rest of the French scene.

TBH, that Xasthur take earlier in the thread was probably the most accurate, although I'd say it was really "The Funeral of Being" that blew the whole thing open.

Aside from that, the obvious answers are Antaeus's "Cut Your Flesh and Worship Satan" and Funeral Mist's "Salvation". Those albums marked a real attitude change for the genre away from "nocturnal romanticism" into something more destructive, both lyrically and musically (those two bands and Triumphator were the first "respectable" entries to have that kind of death metal-ish aggression since the days of Zyklon-B and Impaled Nazarene; most black metal of that era was doing the "mid-paced raw but melodic with lots of keyboards" stuff).

I've never understood that term "orthodox" black metal. What exactly is that referring to? Always made me think there was a religious connotation, but that can't be right, I'm sure it's something to do with the style/sound. A reaction to more symphonic "norsecore" black metal perhaps?

You were right about the religious connotation -- the term originated from bands (primarily Swedish in the early parts of the movement) who took a "theological satanism" lyrical approach. Svartsyn, Malign, Ofermod, Triumphator, Funeral Mist, Katharsis, Antaeus, etc. In the early 2000s, a common sound (epitomized by Watain's "Casus Luciferi") became associated with this style as a result of most of the above being produced at Necromorbus Studio, but if you look at the origins of the style, the bands didn't always sound a whole lot like each other; Malign sounded little like Ofermod, and neither sounded anything like Triumphator or Funeral Mist.

So "theological satanism" is a more akin to actual devil worship, whatever that may entail, and not the Laveyan satanism from the official Church of Satan, which is more an "eye for an eye" humanistic approach that doesn't actually believe in the Devil or Satan as a real presence or force, merely a symbol in reaction to monotheistic religions and specifically Christianity. Right?

Wikipedia has a solid introductory article on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_Satanism

Good choice! Perhaps not as important as DSO but surely up there. Mortuus/Ariochs approach to vocals might be the most important thing in this equation. I love the songs on Salvation as well but what pushes it over the line and beyond is his vocals.



Meh... That description is called "falling for the hype". It is actually nothing of what you describe. It is not black metal, it is not a masterpiece and it is not a continuation of what Funeral Mist started with Salvation. If you like it that's fine but there is nothing about it that is important. It treads no new ground, instead it is safely travelling the path many melodeath albums have before. And I haven't really heard any band, much less whole genres, try to copy what Dissection did on this album.

To me, and it seems to the majority of people who likes metal music, this was just an ok melodeath album. Nothing more, nothing less.

Extremely intelligent observation. The attitude today is a lot closer to "In your face, Nancy Grace!" than "I am the black wizards".

Basically, the first 10-15 albums in the NED catalogue, along with a handful from End All Life.

Frankly, anyone who says something besides Salvation or SMRC either wasn't around at the time or is too young to remember. Fas is great, but DSO was already riding an enormous wave by the time it came out. SMRC is the De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas of that generation.

There are plenty of other important albums (the Xasthur mention above, for better or worse, is spot-on), but if you're talking about the biggest, most influential ones, that pretty much covers it.

I don't think that Sunbather will. It's a good album, but it's not a game changer by any means, and it's notoriously infamous for being "that album that non metalheads and hipsters love". Which has nothing to do with the genre defining albums of Burzum.



Nah, Exercises is the better album out of the two. They are both amazing, Hearts is the one that really showed Mgla stepping up their game one notch, but Exercises does everything Hearts does but even better. It has better hooks, some of their most amazing lyrics (Part 1 is fucking incredible on that regard), the best riffs and crescendos. But both are amazing albums.

Fen, Gallowbraid, Panopticon, Sig:ar:tyr, Skagos



Agalloch, while they are not a straight-on black metal band, might be one of the most influential bands for black metal. Just consider how many bands borrowed from their sound (Fen, Gallowbraid, Panopticon, Sig:ar:tyr, Skagos, etc.). Now of course, WitTR are highly influential two. But I think it's hard to tell which one had the most influence.



It's not so much that Xasthur was shitty as much as Malefic always was a one-trick pony. He had a few good ideas through his career, but not enough to really make him stand out. And while he did have a big influence on DSBM and, like you said, shitty bedroom black metal, he didn't really start the whole DIY one-man-band thing. Black metal is by definition a genre of music that you can play and record easily. Varg admitted to recording some of his earlier albums (the genre defining ones) in one or two days and even coming up with riffs on the spot. I'm not saying Burzum and Mayhem are anything like each other, God no! But black metal always had this in it's essence.



They didn't write or compose any music for the Black One though. I think Greg and Stephen of Sunn O))) were interested in having contemporary black metal musicians on their hommage to black metal record. Not to mention that Leviathan and Xasthur were both US bands, which might have played a role in the selection of musicians. But if you take interest in the song-writing of the tracks, the musical references are oriented towards Bathory and Immortal far more then they are oriented towards the musicians they hired to do the vocals.

my point is that a lot of hipsters got into those bands because they were into Sunn O))). Sunn O))) was getting a ton of coverage at the time.

This. DsO clearly took that BM Godflesh banana riff sound from Work.. and applied it to SMRC. Just like Watain "borrowing" that Dissection sound.

I'll also echo Funeral Mist Salvation. That album was a thorn in the side of toe tapping innofensive hipster fag bm like Wolves in the Throne Room, Nachtmystium, Velvet Cacoon, Fen, Xasthur, Woods of Ypres, back in 03, and its abrasiveness still unrivaled today. The only thing that came close after Salvation was Antaeus - Blood Libels.

Just a few observations, some albums that I thought I'd throw in the mix. How important/influential do you feel these specific albums/bands have been in the past decade or so?

Enslaved - Below the Lights (2003) and/or Axioma Ethica Odini (2010)
Tsjuder - Desert Northern Hell (2004)
Craft - Fuck the Universe (2005)
Darkestrah - The Great Silk Road (2008)
Cobalt - Gin (2009)
Vomitor - Devil's Poison (2010)
Sargeist - Let the Devil In (2010)

Also Windir, Moonsorrow, and Primordial, but I guess they're more related to the pagan/viking metal sound.

used big data from the site y'all and the two largest names in the "similar styles" for this time period are DsO and WitTR, both with ~93 of similarity points to other bands - so that settles that.

It would be Blut Aus Nord if another band was even remotely capable of recreating something in the same strosphere in terms of quality DsO influence pushed everyone into dissonance with SMRC and for good reason. Few albums can be matched in terms of sheer agression and evil. The amount of good quality releases inspired by DsO are vast.

I also think Negative Plane will go down as modern innovators once people get tired of the same old.

That isn't surprising. My vote goes to "SMRC" or "Dead As Dreams."

OK, so I've given this thread a lot of thought and time - first and foremost to make up my mind whether I should utter my point of view at all, and secondly, to give DSO another listening try (sigh). Not only because they are obviously highly revered by many who contributed to this interesting discussion, but also to DSO in particular because they are the band mentioned on the last 3 pages that I am the least familiar with.

In my opinion, this thread would more suitable be titled "Most important album of the 21th century to come out of (2nd wave) black metal", as I cannot get my head around labelling DSO, Sunbather, Agalloch etc black metal. I'd be OK with "blackened" or "blackish" though. Would anyone still call a death metal band death metal if they not only incorporated muezzin chants, yodelling, ethnic instruments or what have you throughout entire albums, but actually made them the key components of their songs and sound? I doubt it, simply because it strays too far away from the traditional and established forms. And that's exactly how I feel about pretty much every group that has been listed in this thread so far. To me, none of them qualify as black metal.

My picks for most important b.m. albums of the 21th century (thus far) would be Vemod's debut, Armagedda's Only true believers and Sargeist's Let the devil in. These are just off the top of my head, and I may feel inclined to add more albums in a later editing session. And yes, these are all very traditional bands who do not really experiment or evolve black metal trademarks and esthetics. But they wholeheartedly embody everything I'm looking for in that genre, and have delivered extremely powerful and meaningful music. So, as you can see, "most important" pretty much equates "sharing the throne with the heroes of the nineties" to me.

P.S.: Funeral Mist are the notable exception amongst those mentioned earlier. Salvation is next-level conviction and brutality. It is in fact the most hard-hitting black metal I have heard to this day, which, coupled with its 70+ minutes playing time, has actually prevented me from listening to it in one uninterrupted sitting so far.

Didn't read all comments above. sure I'll repeat someone - first three Drudkh albums, first three Alcest albums, Taake' Hordaland and Bjorgvin, all Bolzer releases, Diabolical Masquerade -Death Design, Darkspace III and IV. Also would like to add Imperium Dekadenz and Ruins of Beverast.

I remember getting Antaeus’s CYFAWS when it came out and holy shit did that ever up the aggression factor. It was something else. I’d say that has to be one of the most important. Also seconding Salvation by Funeral Mist although my intro was to Devilry which really made me pay attention to how awesome Arioch and Necromorbus were. I also feel like TROB’s Unlock the Shrine and Weakling’s Dead as Dreams were also influential and to me extremely important albums despite my being already heavily entrenched in black metal music and values (and of course getting over that attitude and juvenile nature as a young man).

I agree with the comments on the Ordo Ad Chao album. Heard it for the first time a couple of years ago. At first I was like "what a crappy production". But music-wise it's awesome. And even that production which I named crappy at first, only adds to the evil 'necro' sound of the album. It has become my favourite black album in no time.

Also, another album that I believe is one of the best of this century is Dodheimsgard's 'A Umbra Omega'. The way they implement the avant-garde into that album is stunning. 'Supervillain Outcast' is another album of them that is to be considered to be one of the best black albums of this century.

Also agree with Deathspell Omega as one the most important bands in the 21st century.

Another band that made highly important albums in this century I think is Abigor. Check out albums like 'Fractal Possession', 'Time Is The Sulphur In The Veins Of The Saint' and 'Leytmotif Luzifer' and you will know what I'm talking about

I just revisited Dodheimsgard's A Umbra Omega and again I am in absolute awe at the masterful song-writing on that album. Seriously, Vicotnik is right up there alongside Blasphemer, Czral, Snorre and Teloch when it comes to writing mind bogglingly awesome black metal riffs. "Aphelion Void" might just be one of the best songs ever written...

I've never listened to Deafheaven, I thought they were a nu-metal band I also don't like much DSO after SMRC, and even that album only had a few great songs for me. I remember being so bored of "Fas" when it came out, but haven't even tried listening to it in many years. I think Kenose or one of those other EP/splits were decent. DSO doesn't even enter my mind when I think about great black metal, I guess it's just me...

I don't really know what I would pick, you could argue:
Drudkh- Forgotten Legends
Immortal - SoND
Mgla - (I was in love with the EPs before even Groza came out, but WHTN is definitely their breakthru)
All 3 of these bands have different and influential styles that are still extremely popular and "imitated" today. Still don't think there are many right or wrong answers.

it is damn good and Vicotnik is something of a genius but I do think that album loses itself a bit. Too often the momentum of the song ('piece' I guess, in this case) is lost and it starts to feel like the album (yes it's become sentient) is thinking of where to go next rather than arriving there naturally. I really like 'Aphelion Void' and if the entire album had been on that level, it would have been a masterpiece (like 666 and Supervillain are). 'God Protocol Axiom' could have done with some editing even though parts of it are fantastic and it's still probably the second best track. 'The Unlocking' is very good until the ending and then it just kind of bottoms out without realizing its potential. 'Architect of Darkness'...I get what he was trying to do with this one but it just never quite finds its way. I get that it's supposed to be more focused on the lyrics (I think) and the parts involved are all certainly all great but I dunno...just doesn't work as a whole for me. 'Blue Moon Duel' - same comments as 'GPA.' Probably tied for second best track but could have done with some editing.

All that being said, it has some of the most amazing moments in metal of this decade so far. I get what Vicotnik was going for with it (and DAMN it would've been great if every track was as great as 'Aphelion') but by their standards, I have to regard it as a slight disappointment and more of an album of amazing moments than an amazing whole.

Scar Sighted

Alcest and Weakling. Both of those albums kickstarted sounds that have dominated black metal over the past 10+ years. Even if you hate Blackgaze and Cascadian, they are only styles of black metal completely unique to the 21st century that have gained global popularity and borderline mainstream success. They are both heavily influenced by Ulver and Drudkh, for sure, but those releases introduced atmospheric and shoegazey sounds to a new generation and neither of those styles are going away anytime soon.

It's also important to think about how much ire they have drawn. I would argue part of the reason there is so much more orthodox/dissonant black metal nowadays is in direct response to musicians hating the direction of these sorts of bands. So not only did Alcest and Weakling basically invent styles of their own, these styles caused a backlash that resulted in more traditional forms of black metal trying to improve themselves.

Yeah I totally get what you are saying. I had the same thoughts you have for each track after listening to it for the entire 2015, but having revisited it recently I don't think I find as many faults with it anymore. Each song has this way of meandering into sublime territory, but it always finds its way back to blistering power. It's just such a fascinating journey, I don't know how or what I would really cut, but I do know where you're coming from.



As much as I enjoy Sons of Northern Darkness I think it's already fairly derivative of a style that started near the end of the 90's. If At the Heart of Winter were released a year later it would definitely be high on my list, since I think that album truly showed that one can marry atmosphere with ferocity seamlessly and masterfully.