Which old albums do you think were major influences in the style of technical death metal played nowadays? I'm talking about albums like Nespithe, Spheres and Fatal Millenium

Outside of obvious stuff like non-technical death metal and grindcore making up the fundamentals, tech-thrash primarily. I mean, Spheres and Fatal Millennium already have plenty of thrash riffs to begin with, there's not a terribly huge gap riff-wise from this to this, even if Monstrosity was a bit more abrupt in their riff changes than Rinehart-era Dark Angel was. Watchtower was of course the founder, cited by virtually everyone as a massive influence, so both albums are obligatory for anyone wanting to know the evolution of technical/progressive metal in general. In Coroner you can hear an influence on 90s Death and other bands like Nocturnus, relatively accessible verse/chorus song structures with lead-showcasing intersections and neoclassical flourishes everywhere. Honestly, a lot of the Floridian bands don't even sound significantly different to me than the tech-thrash classics outside of tuning and vocals.

To me, it was Atrocity's Hallucinations that really began something heavily distinct from tech-thrash, soon to be followed by The Red in the Sky is Ours and Nespithe. Those bands generally didn't rely as much on pedal-point and chugging riffing thrash had already established, and I think their styles were more isolated from the usual bands of the scene. I think tech-era Nasty Savage had some of the closest riffs to Demilich, backwards-sounding and twisted, but for every one of those they would write three groovy riffs, and I've never actually seen anyone cite them as an influence. (Excellent band regardless.) DBC's Universe has some of the most wandering tech-death-like arrangements as well, continuously evolving riffs with minimal repetition. Deathrow's Deception Ignored was also cited as a primary influence on Timeghoul, and was another relatively early album in the extreme tech-metal style.

I'm working on a big RYM list on tech death which will cover this.

Aside from HamburgerBoy's list, I'd also suggest Baphomet from Utah, Eternal Dirge, Rigor Mortis, Toxodeth. Some of the first thrash/death/black bands to verge into tech territory, without actually being considered "tech death" by anyone. Also Slayer was a huge inspiration for brutal/tech DM's chromaticism and atonal soloing - you can definitely hear Slayer influence in the early work of Suffocation.

Gorguts always comes to mind as one of the pioneers of technical death metal. Suffocation as well. Both bands were massively influential and did a great job at not only pushing the envelope when it came to technicality, but also when it came to heaviness (which is something many tech bands lack IMO). They upped the creativity and went beyond the ol' non-stop harmonized noodling in the upper-range. Going earlier than that, obvious bands come to mind like Slayer.

It depends which style as their are several distinct styles of tech-death around.
Generally for the more old school sounding tech-death id point the finger at Voivod, Coroner, Atheist (piece of time) and Pestilence (testimony) though mid-period Death is probably the most enduring influence on bands in this style. On the heavier end I would add in Morbid Angel and Monstrosity, on the jazzier end id say Atheist again (unquestionable presence), Pestilence (spheres), Sadist but once again the most wide and enduring influence seems to be Cynic.

The more brutal style Suffocation, Immolation (Dawn of Possession), Cryptopsy, Monstrosity and Deeds of Flesh and Dying Fetus are imo the most prominent influences on the brutal tech death style. The freakier dissonant style of tech-death which seems so popular right now obviously Gorguts, Demilich loom large over the style and maybe Voivod, but equally Immolation are again hugely influential on bands like Ulcerate who themselves have been hugely influential on the weirder end of brutal death.

Also cant not mention Necrophagist and Spawn of Posession, who to a large number of young bands/musicians you'd swear were the originators of the whole fucking genre, certainly when it comes to the sweep picking at every opportunity brigade.

Obviously there are tons of other bands who are influential some more well known than others, but generally speaking imo the above acts are the ones who have had the most wide spread influence at least.

Maybe it'd worth note that a band like Watchtower might be mention somewhere. EDIT - just noticed that they're mentioned at the top.

I honestly don't think people really liked Spheres when it came out.

I don't think it was very influential or did much memorable that Atheist and Cynic hadn't already done.

I think you guys are overthinking it. If we're going to talk about what we know today as "tech death", there are a few really obvious early albums that laid a bunch of the groundwork that was built upon later, and they're not these super underground prog-thrash bands that nobody knew about in the tape trading days. Really you had Unquestionable Presence and Focus (and Obscura a few years later) getting a wide appeal while introducing so many of the jazz elements that would come to be so prominent in bands like Beyond Creation and Obscura nowadays. And then in the more brutal realm you had the first handful of Suffocation albums pushing the envelope of heaviness, None So Vile throwing offbeat hooks at you left and right, and some early Dying Fetus stuff mixing in wank with slams. I know it was mentioned somewhat derisively, but Deeds of Flesh and Necrophagist really were the first two bands I can think of that really "figured out" the modern style of hyper technical just-blast-like-a-neutron-bomb-and-sweep-like-a-mildly-retarded-janitor niche that exploded around the mid-late 00s. It's easy to forget just how ahead of the curve they (and Origin now that I think about it) were. Fermented Offal Discharge was the song that spawned a thousand Unique Leader bands and that's already friggin' 18 years old at this point.

I find it completely pointless to start asking "okay well what influenced those albums?" because then you start to get into that weird territory where you start saying wacky things like Deep Purple invented thrash because of Highway Star.

I agree with BastardHead. While there are undoubtedly other influences, there's a handful of clear ones

Atheist, Cynic, and Pestilence expanded the palette of what could fit into death metal. Suffocation (and derivatives), Gorguts, and Cryptopsy were highly influential death metal bands with the extremely percussive and technical edge. Necrophagist were one of the first that seemed to flaunt the "technical" more than the "death metal" in their music. Tech death beyond that is almost a wormhole in which acrobats try to outdo each other.

Bands like Demilich and Timeghoul seem to influence weird death metal more than simply technical stuff. Less flashy, more thematically creative and imaginative.

Watchtower wasn't remotely obscure in their day, at least among the bands that mattered; Jason McMaster was a pen pal of Metallica circa Kill Em All, Gene Hoglan was praising their merits in 1986, and many bands including Death and Atheist could be found wearing Watchtower t-shirts. Same deal for Coroner; bands like Anthrax were wearing Coroner merch before RIP was even out, and Chuck Schuldiner among others were huge open fans of them. I mean, you can't really call a band on the Noise catalog obscure, in the context of the scenes of the time. The zines largely mirrored that as well; you can find examples of where what we now call tech-death was called "techno-thrash death metal" or similar, because that's where most of the proggy/tech-y bits came from.

I mean, the bands that pioneered the scenes in the 80s were the tape-traders. That's how Kreator was able to copy Exodus riffs a year before Bonded By Blood's release, for example, or how you had dozens of death or black metal bands years before Scream Bloody Gore and DMDS were released. By the time any new sound finally makes it to record, you already have many newer bands playing the same thing. Albums are most influential in a metal context when talking about breaking through to the mainstream.

Pretty sure Hellwitch predated Atheist with technical death/thrash but they never made much of a name for themselves outside underground circles.

I don't get the mentions of Cynic at all. They were pretty normal death/thrash and then stopped playing metal entirely and released a pop rock album with guitar wankery. They probably just get thrown in because their members were still involved in the scene here and there.

Cynic are simply a convenient proxy to jazz fusion influences such as John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny and Alan Holdsworth. They had a resurgence in popularity after they reformed and are still often cited by acts incorporating such influences, and there is no accounting for taste. Though their influence is perhaps most heavily apparent in the djent scene and honestly they are welcome to them.


While I'm not a fan of unnecessary subgenres Slam Wank needs to be a thing.

Cynic weren't god or anything, but their demos were definitely a bit more technical and ambitious than the norm without relying on jazz fusion wank. If Cynic broke immediately after the 1990 demo, you'd probably see people accusing Schuldiner of ripping them off from Human onwards.

"A bit"? I'd say tremendously more technical than anything Schuldiner would ever play. I doubt Chuck if he was alive would even dispute that. Those guys were VERY fast and tight in their demo days, and were head-and-shoulders above most of the tech metal scene at that time. It's not surprising they found many admirers in those who were aware of them in the underground.

What Cynic released since their reformation isn't pertinent to anything, like asking if Metallica were influential to the burgeoning thrash scene but bringing up Load.

P.S. I suspect DBC's "Universe" was a bigger influence on Cynic then most people realize.

Then why do you bring it up when nobody else did?

To be fair i mentioned it, but that was only to point out that it seemed to bring attention back to them, case in point the value of vinyl copies of Focus went through the roof. Sadly i sold mine about a year too soon

A bit of a strange point to make, but Cynic, where they really death metal on their full length albums? The demos where in that vein, but they just seemed to dissolve into many, many different styles that just got frustrating.

Aside from the growled vocals which had a back seat by that point overall the more metallic elements have more in common with tech thrash to me. The tuning and light weight production doesn't help, the mention of DBC - Universe is on the money if memory serves as the riffing is very similar, but honestly that album sounds heavier.

Wait a minute .... you're saying "Focus" is a "pop-rock" album? I thought you were talking about their post-reformation releases, which I will never defend.

I don't think you could sum it up any more. I remember watching a Hard 'N' Heavy special years ago and seeing them on it. I was impressed by what I saw, so on getting Focus (and selling it shortly after), it was quite hard to believe it was the same band. I had forgotten about DBC - Universe, that needs a revisit soon too.

There is a lot of overlap between dark, fast thrash and early death metal. SADUS is generally considered "thrash" but they are more brutal than most of DEATH's (generally considered death metal) music.

I'm a big fan of all things Cynic but I think Focus is more seminal as a progressive metal album than anything to do with extreme metal. While the 90-91 demos were way more busy death/thrash metal than most bands of the time especially in the lead guitar department, Focus doesn't "think" like a death metal band if that makes any sense. Atheist were still heavily reliant on somewhat illogical chromatic riffing that defines a lot of thrash and early death metal but with the added complexities that their rhythm section brought to the table and more fast changing song structures, all things that modern tech death takes some queues from I think. Cynic though were some of the only traditionally trained musicians of that scene to my knowledge and it shows in the more complex harmony they used. Seriously just listen to something like the intro section to I'm But a Wave To or much of Textures, definitely a lot more influential on this decade of prog metal than the tech death bands of the last 15 years.

Having said that though, there is a certain kind of modern tech death that owes a lot of it's "prettier" sensibilities to Cynic which is why they're usually brought up in these discussions I think. Obscura are probably the most obvious example with the similarly spiritual lyrical angle and vocoder vox but I can hear them popping up in bands like Beyond Creation or The Faceless as well.

I think Cynic at least pioneered the clean-jazzy-break-in-the-middle-of-the-song technique. I've heard a lot of artists do that since Cynic first did it.

Focus... "pretty normal death/thrash". Okay...

Reading troubles? They WERE pretty normal death/thrash BEFORE they stopped playing metal entirely on Focus. The thread is about what's relevant to metal, not the stuff that's softer than early 70s half-prog only with some metal-influenced guitar wank plastered all over it.

"BEFORE they stopped playing metal entirely on Focus"

I don't have reading troubles, but you sure seem to have hearing ones.

Most of the tracks from Focus were taken from the demos, just slightly modified.

I once read a book about prog metal (can't recall the author at the moment) in which Paul Masividal cited DBC as a big influence on Cynic.