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Zodijackyl
Definitely Proportionate

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7264
Location: Longmont Potion Castle
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:55 pm 
 

The Ardbeg Wizard wrote:
White metal.


A less-used term for metal with Christian themes.

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Kommanderhooyah
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:56 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:52 am 
 

I have mostly seen “white metal” used as a pejorative term (for a variety of reasons) and/or by people outside of the metal scene. The only defining characteristic seems to be Christian-themed lyrics. I know several Christian metal musicians, but I do not recall any of them using the term “white metal” in a serious manner. “Unblack” metal is used more often, but it is a much more defined term than “white metal”, being black metal with Christian lyrical themes. However, even within the Christian scene there is some controversy regarding the use of “unblack”, which was spawned from the satirical title of Horde’s Hellig Usvart.
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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 245
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:57 pm 
 

This isn't so much asking if a genre exists, but moreso wondering why it hasn't been all that explored.

So, when Katatonia wrote their Brave Murder Day album, they were listening to a ton of shoegaze (namely Slowdive and My Bloody Valentine) at the time, which is reflected in the guitar tone, riffing style, and noisy, dreamy vibe of that album. That led me to an interesting thought; so, it's nothing new for a band to combine black metal and shoegaze, or doom metal and shoegaze... but is there a hybrid between death metal and shoegaze out there? BMD, to me, is a pretty clear mix of death/doom and shoegaze elements, but has there ever been just a straight up blend of death metal and shoegaze?

Probably the closest thing I can think of, which is still pretty far off, would be Hybernoid's The Last Day Begins? album.

Youtube: show


It's just funny to me that styles like depressive black metal and black metal/shoegaze have never really been tried out with death metal. Quite frankly, I'd be interested in hearing such a thing pulled off.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4736
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:00 am 
 

I feel that Valborg and more strongly the related band Island to some extend have explored combining both.

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Vigintiseptem
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:23 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:15 am 
 

In Finland we have this thing called "asennemetalli" ("attitude metal"). Has anyone outside Finland ever come across this term? It is used to describe bands whose sound leans towards post-thrash, metalcore and crossover.

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PrincessScarlet
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:44 pm
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:52 am 
 

Is "progressive war metal" a thing? Like bands that have Blasphemy, Conqueror, Beherit, etc. as their main influence, but have like proggy tendencies? (i.e experimenting with outside elements, fucking about with weird time signatures, that kind of thing)

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:42 pm 
 

@PrincessScarlet: Progressive is more like a adjective. You have progressive pop, progressive rock, progressive folk, progressive trance, progressive house etc. So sure, why not. If it could describe a certain sound it's functional.

@Vigintiseptem: I never heard of the term attitude metal, also not in my native language Dutch.

@the-white-metal-discussion: just because it's lyrically different, it doesn't become a different genre.
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Malefikant
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:48 pm
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:18 pm 
 

I recently talked with the singer of this unknown local band that completely ripped off Pantera in the mid-90s and he insisted that this style was called "Power Metal". He was obviously referring to the Pantera album of same name, but when I tried to explain him what the more common use of "Power Metal" is I couldn't even come up with a good definition myself.

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_flow
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:31 pm
Posts: 227
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:47 pm 
 

I've no idea what power metal is, and can't stand this site, but here's an article:
http://www.deathmetal.org/article/intro ... nfluences/

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:55 am 
 

@malefikant, here's a pretty accurate definition.

https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Power+metal
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Malefikant
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:48 pm
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:20 am 
 

Well, so it's just traditional Heavy Metal with Speed Metal influences, I can live with that. Still, it's a pretty obsolete term (just like Speed Metal from a nowadays Point of view, IMHO).

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:30 pm 
 

Maybe so, but without power metal and speed metal you'd have to chose between heavy metal and thrash metal for bands like Helloween, Blind Guardian and Exciter.
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Malefikant
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:06 pm 
 

Woutjinho wrote:
Maybe so, but without power metal and speed metal you'd have to chose between heavy metal and thrash metal for bands like Helloween, Blind Guardian and Exciter.


Good point, especially Exciter is a tricky one.

However, you rarely hear someone saying "you know, I like heavy AND power metal" or "I only like speed metal, because thrash is too extreme for me!".

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:15 pm 
 

They're there, somewhere. I think they both live in Germany though.
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Malefikant
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:32 pm 
 

Woutjinho wrote:
They're there, somewhere. I think they both live in Germany though.


Haha, yes, quite probably. But I always avoided guys with Helloween patches anyway.

I have a hard time reading that whole Death Metal UG article about "Power Metal" linked above without falling asleep, but seriously, Manowar is just (epic) Heavy Metal, nothing else. They came from a time when there were no such sub genres. And just because the NWOBHM died out, there's no need to give traditional Heavy Metal a new name when it still exists, in my opinion.

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:47 pm 
 

NWOBHM is werird indeed. It describes a genre from a certain area and era. Like Bay Area Thrash or Gothenburg Death Metal aren't actually genres on their own. More like a scene within the genre. Though power metal and speed metal may uncertain genres to some, theyare fairly faster than heavy metal, have dual harmonics and high pitched vocals. This might be interesting too.
https://mapofmetal.com
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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:55 pm 
 

This isn't necessarily metal per-say, but how many of you acknowledge "Heavy Psych"? It's really more a RateYourMusic thing that describes hard rock that is particularly psychedelic in a heavy sort of way; think lots of fuzz; basically Blue Cheer and Sir Lord Baltimore and Flower Travellin' Band and stuff like that. There are some (like myself) that would consider even early Black Sabbath to be heavy psych to a degree, particularly with songs like Behind the Wall of Sleep and Electric Funeral. Heavy psych is basically the precursor to what is called stoner rock these days.

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:32 am 
 

I do listen to psychedelic rock, but I'm not sure about heavy psych.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4736
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:41 pm 
 

heavy psych is are psychedelic rock bands that sound heavier than your nice 60s-70s sounding psy rock bands.
compare this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSXneEvG5Vs

with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgkYJ4yv7aA

These bands combine heavy blues rock with the heaviest jammiest parts of Can and Hawkwind.

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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:34 am 
 

Something I want to ask has to do with Grindcore. First, I will concede I know little about Grindcore relative to other genres. I hear people often state that Grindcore itself is not a metal genre and there are many examples of Grindcore that aren't metal. If so, where exactly is the schism between metallic grindcore and non-metallic?

It just confuses me as from what I know Grind's roots come from three places; crust punk, thrash & death metal, and Thrashcore. Crust punk itself is already a quite metallic genre relative to other forms of hardcore, Discharge and Amebix especially show off Motorhead influence (a digression, but I've always though of Black Metal and Crust Punk as two sides of the same coin as they really come from similar origins and developed parallel to one another; Bathory themselves were influenced by early Amebix and Discharge and I'm pretty sure Anti-Cimex). And from there, the Crust foundation became sped up and some thrash and early death metal elements added. This is where Repulsion, Napalm Death (after changing from Anarcho-Punk), Carcass come in etc.. The origins of Grind that I guess are the least metallic are the Thrashcore ones, like Siege who are just fast hardcore but the ones that have no metal influence at all seem few and far between compared to everything else. So I don't get it very well.

-----

Something else now. This is a topic I've talked about before but I want to know what exactly defines Progressive Metal. Metal itself has always been heavily influenced by progressive rock, from Sabbath following suit from Cream and adding jazz to their style and slowly eschewing the blues rock, to Blackmore's more classical style of playing, to Budgie's progressive style songs to Judas Priest's Wishbone Ash influences and Tipton's prog influenced style, to Maiden and Mercyful Fate who are balls deep in 70's prog and beyond. Metal itself is already really a faction of progressive rock.

So what is Progressive Metal about then? Is it just the prog influence turned up to eleven and that's what defines them, like basically Mercyful Fate and Maiden's technical tendencies and classical emulation taken further? Or is it a tendency to introduce odder elements in (like Voivod)? Or is it both. I'll also say I don't know much about Progressive Metal.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4736
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:07 pm 
 

you are just overthinking it, grindcore is a genre that takes elements from various sources there is no real schism. Some bands just have more fast hardcore parts or something else. Early Napalm Death shows quite clearly the influence early Swans had on grindcore as well.

progressive metal usually either means unusual/innovative metal that isnt experimental, metal with strong prog rock influence or metal with more complicated structures.

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Woutjinho
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:11 pm 
 

It's all a grey area really like the leap from death metal, to deathgrind and grindcore and crust punk. So eventhough Grindcore isn't technically a metal genre because it only takes influences from it, there are bands that are arguably metal that still fits the genre Grindcore.

As for Progressive, it has to be pushed to the limits. A complex solo or harmony doesn't determine the genre for the entire song.
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Draehl
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:13 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:12 pm 
 

Is there such a thing as Blackened Stoner/Psych/Space Rock? I'm aware of Blackened Doom/Sludge, but is there a more droney/chilled out mix of say Atmoblack and Stoner? Urfaust, The Ruins of Beverast, and Dark Buddha Rising are the closest I could think of, but I could totally see a blackened version of, say, Bong's Mana-Yood-Sushai totally working out.

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 2992
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:45 pm 
 

Malefikant wrote:
Well, so it's just traditional Heavy Metal with Speed Metal influences,.

Power metal is defined by it's common use of major keys. No other metal has that.


Malefikant wrote:
However, you rarely hear someone saying "I only like speed metal, because thrash is too extreme for me!".

I like speed metal but not thrash metal. Not because it's too extreme though. I guess it's too one dimensional for me. I love black/thrash, and technical thrash.
So, relevant classifications.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4736
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:50 am 
 

Draehl wrote:
Is there such a thing as Blackened Stoner/Psych/Space Rock? I'm aware of Blackened Doom/Sludge, but is there a more droney/chilled out mix of say Atmoblack and Stoner? Urfaust, The Ruins of Beverast, and Dark Buddha Rising are the closest I could think of, but I could totally see a blackened version of, say, Bong's Mana-Yood-Sushai totally working out.


the closest i can think of is stuff like dark buddha rising and oranssi pazuzu really. A little bit less well known are bands like hair spirit noir and aluk todolo

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:10 pm 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
hair spirit noir

Did you mean hare spirit noir?
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:03 am 
 

oops i meant hail spirit noir

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 55
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:01 pm 
 

Malefikant wrote:
I recently talked with the singer of this unknown local band that completely ripped off Pantera in the mid-90s and he insisted that this style was called "Power Metal". He was obviously referring to the Pantera album of same name, but when I tried to explain him what the more common use of "Power Metal" is I couldn't even come up with a good definition myself.


In France in the mid-90's, the term "Power Metal" was currently used as well for what is now called "Groove Metal" or "post-Thrash Metal", so to speak, the groovy type of Thrash Metal with tough guy vocals and Crossover/Hardcore influences (Pantera, Machine Head, Sepultura, Coal Chamber... ).
I don't know why but the term "Groove metal" appeared at some point and "Power Metal" began to be used instead of "Melodic Heavy/Speed Metal" for bands like Stratovarius, Blind Guardian and co... I don't know if the same thing happened in other countries.
I may be wrong but I've never heard a band labelled this genre call themselves "Groove Metal ", neither at the time nor today... I don't even know when this term was coined.

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Andreas_Hansen
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:45 am 
 

Usually when a band is playing in a sort of innovating style and they make an album ending with "metal" we often tend to associate this new genre to this " - metal" name (see Venom with "Black Metal" or Death for "death metal" or even Candlemass with "Epic(us) Doom(icus) Metal(licus)", though I think this last one was mostly for the fun.

However the case of "Power Metal" is different since this album came out when Pantera were still playing this strange glam metal thing. The name didn't stay because there was already a name for the genre they were playing. However it's true that most of the first groove metal bands were rather using the term "power metal" in reference to Pantera. It can change nowadays since a lot of underground metal bands (especially in France) tend to use the term "groove" with a ton of other genres behind.

It is slightly harder to define when the modern term of "power metal" (BG, Hammerfall...) was used since most of the first power metal albums were more focused on speed with some epic melodies (Helloween's Wall of Jerico, Blind Guardian's Battalions of Fear, Riot's Thundersteel...) Power metal is basically made of melodic speed and heavy metal influences so the genre "melodic speed metal" is just a synonym I never use.
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Kalimata
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:03 pm 
 

As far as I can remember, the first time I saw the term "Power Metal" to describe the epic and melodic type of traditional Heavy/Speed Metal was in an add for a Hammerfall album in a French magazine by the end of the 90's (maybe 1998 but i can't be sure...).
I was like: "Hey, they use that term for this as well!?"
As the add was made by their record company, which was not French, it may explain why it was something new to French metalheads. But was "Power Metal" used for these bands on the late 80's/early 90's in other countries? Or did it appear later?

As for "Groove Metal", I'm pretty sure the term appeared much later. In the 90's, Pantera, Machine Head and the likes were most of the time refered as "Power/Thrash Metal" by the metal press, but the average metalheads would simply call them "Thrash".

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Kalimata
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:33 pm 
 

Vigintiseptem wrote:
In Finland we have this thing called "asennemetalli" ("attitude metal"). Has anyone outside Finland ever come across this term? It is used to describe bands whose sound leans towards post-thrash, metalcore and crossover.


Well, one Finnish attempt to name that genre that had no name at the time!

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Andreas_Hansen
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:37 pm 
 

Good question, I think Gamma Ray's Kai Hansen once described his genre as "epic melodic metal" or something like that, during the first GR albums. For the others I don't know.

I also think the "groove" term came later since but I don't know why they decided to choose this specific name and why did it appear at this particular time. I'm not sure however if everyone would still call them "thrash" because it was right in the middle of the burst of nu and alternative genres. People may have called as well these bands "alternative metal".
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Andreas_Hansen
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 316
Location: Anywhere in the Galaxy
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:38 pm 
 

Kalimata wrote:
Vigintiseptem wrote:
In Finland we have this thing called "asennemetalli" ("attitude metal"). Has anyone outside Finland ever come across this term? It is used to describe bands whose sound leans towards post-thrash, metalcore and crossover.


Well, one Finnish attempt to name that genre that had no name at the time!


Finns are miles away with their language, that's why no one ever reused it.
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SweetLeaf95
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am
Posts: 575
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:49 pm 
 

So uh, I've seen this term thrown around and never knew what the fuck it was supposed to mean. What the hell is "slam death"?
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Kalimata
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Location: France
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:04 am 
 

Another useless name aiming at creating a false new subgenre of Death Metal for something that actually already existed and that doesn't need a new name.
Only the metal scene is able to produce so many useless subgenre names just for the sake of it.

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MutantClannfear
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:37 am 
 

SweetLeaf95 wrote:
So uh, I've seen this term thrown around and never knew what the fuck it was supposed to mean. What the hell is "slam death"?

Brutal death metal where the primary form of riffage is groovy, rhythmic, hardcore-influenced chugs. Imagine a Suffocation breakdown making up an entire song. It’s a very distinctive sound (if not a full-fledged genre), I dunno what Kalimata’s talking about.

Here’s a few examples:
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Andreas_Hansen
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:16 am 
 

SweetLeaf95 wrote:
So uh, I've seen this term thrown around and never knew what the fuck it was supposed to mean. What the hell is "slam death"?


It's supposed to be a mix between hardcore beatdown and brutal death metal. I can't take this genre seriously. Basically Pathology or Abominable Putridity are slam death bands (they are listed as "brutal death metal on M-A)

How to create a slam death band:
- Take the name of a disease or a medical term and ends it with "-y" or "-ctomy". You can also take two or three words that don't have links between then by picking in the gore dictionary.
- Cross a sheet of paper out to draw the logo.
- Have a drum machine and be bad at guitar (Do you really think musicians spend years in music academies in order to be part of a slam death band)

Now how to create songs:
- Like the name of your band, either you choose diseases or apocalypse song titles or you take random gore-ish and sex-related words.
- "Eugh Ough Eugh Oghk Eugh Eogh Eugh Ough" + strange guitar melody

That's all.
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SweetLeaf95
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am
Posts: 575
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:23 pm 
 

I assumed it was another useless title that seem to spawn every year in heavy metal. But thank you guys for the clarification. Doesn't sound like anything that would appeal to me, haha. At least now I know what people are talking about.
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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:12 pm 
 

The term is old, like at least 10 years old. It's not really an ephemeral trend at all.
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Auch
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Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 269
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:27 am 
 

Yeah, it's a weird (sub-)sub-genre of brutal death metal where they eschew all of the technicality and focus on the 'brutal' beat/breakdown, unintelligible lyrics and vocalizations, and straightforwardly violent lyrics. I always think of it more as a descriptor for a niche subsection of a larger, overarching (sub)genre rather than a unique genre itself.

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