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[Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
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Author:  Zodijackyl [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Post all inquiries about explanation of and ambiguity in genre labels here.

Do not waste time asking about:
-Things that one band obviously made up that nobody else uses, i.e. "love metal"
-Ridiculous sub-subgenres from grindcore youtube channels, i.e. vomitnoise, frognoise, toadcore (these are sort of apparent anyway)
-Intentionally stupid questions, i.e. "Is mayonnaise a genre?"

At some point I'll compile some of the better explanations about some of the common questions/ambiguous labels. Here are two
-Viking metal: Bathory's Hammerheart and Falkenbach are good examples. Usually a mix of black metal and epic heavy/thrash metal with Nordic folk mixed in. Varies quite a bit so it's hard to write a one-line explanation.
-Dark metal: some hard-to-categorize combination gothic-tinged black/doom/death often with folk passages that sounds "dark" and - Bethlehem's album "Dark Metal" and old Agalloch are usually referenced. Not used much on MA because we can usually find a less ambiguous genre to use.

Author:  Hebidoku [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Is blackco-

Nah, but seriously, is blues metal a genre or just another name for an existing one?

Author:  DarkWhatever [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Blackgaze... what the fuck

It seems interchangeable with post-black metal but the origin of the term shoegaze comes from the guitar player having so many effects pedals that they spend the entire show looking down at them.

Can a black metal band that uses a ton of effects be considered blackgaze but not be post-black?

Fuck that, I refuse to use the term blackgaze regardless. It seems like one of those sub genre names that's gonna become a derogatory term just like all the 'core' genres.

"Oh, that band is terrible. I don't listen to that cockgaze stuff."

Author:  Zodijackyl [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Blackgaze generally has the aesthetics of black metal - the lo-fi distorted sound, the same type of vocals, sometimes tremolo riffs, but it doesn't have the metal riffing. It might sound like wussy third-wave black stuff where the drums are a ticking timekeeper and the guitars are a tremolo storm, but the influence of heavy metal is lost - you won't hear riffs like old Gorgoroth, Grand Belial's Key, or Hellhammer in it.

I never thought of shoegaze as staring at effects pedals, I thought of it as boring, mopey rock.

Hebidoku wrote:
Nah, but seriously, is blues metal a genre or just another name for an existing one?


Not really, blues and metal are both very broad, expansive styles, but there is hardly any uniform overlap that is referred to that way. Considering the first heavy metal band was a very heavy bluesy rock band, most of the blues/metal stuff is defined by pointing to Sabbath as the milestone.

Author:  Folkemon_ [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Are we considering black n roll a real genre these days? If so it should probably be added to Satyricons genre.

Author:  iamntbatman [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

DarkWhatever wrote:
Blackgaze... what the fuck

It seems interchangeable with post-black metal but the origin of the term shoegaze comes from the guitar player having so many effects pedals that they spend the entire show looking down at them.

Can a black metal band that uses a ton of effects be considered blackgaze but not be post-black?

Fuck that, I refuse to use the term blackgaze regardless. It seems like one of those sub genre names that's gonna become a derogatory term just like all the 'core' genres.

"Oh, that band is terrible. I don't listen to that cockgaze stuff."


It's not so much the need to have lots of effects, though the early shoegaze bands did tend to have lots of them. It's more just part of the aesthetic of those bands - unassuming looking musicians playing pretty, spacey but supremely loud rock music and who tended to have a a similarly lackadaisical stage presence (shy, concentrating on the music rather than running around, showing off, interacting with the audience, etc.).

I guess I would say it's a real genre, but in my experience there aren't really that many of these bands playing anything that sounds genuinely influenced by actual shoegaze. Instead it tends to be boring post-rock with the big noisy climaxes replaced with really wimpy black metal.

Author:  DarkWolfXV [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Is deathstep a genre?

People mixing dubstep with deathcore/death metal

(lol)

Author:  Helvede [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Please don't invent new 'funny' genres just to come to this thread to have them tested, okay?

Author:  Yayattasa [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Deathstep is certainly not invented, but it's not Dubstep + Deathcore, it is Brostep ( or Post-Dubstep, a subgenre of Dubstep) + Deathcore.

Author:  tomcat_ha [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

while i like the idea of this thread, you did complete kill the death/doom discussion with this.

Author:  Vamos [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

tomcat_ha wrote:
while i like the idea of this thread, you did complete kill the death/doom discussion with this.


Seeing this thread started very much right afterwards kind of made me feel bad/guilty of having started the death/doom thread, as if it was stupid or something... :scratch:

Author:  AcidWorm [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

So I have heard thrashcore referred to as fast hardcore punk but less metallic than grindcore. Of course there is more to it than that since grindcore isn't on this site unless it is metal enough and there is plenty of thrashcore bands here. I have heard some thrashcore and it sounded nothing like thrash metal so why does it share the same name? Can anyone explain all this to me?

Author:  Yayattasa [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

AcidWorm wrote:
So I have heard thrashcore referred to as fast hardcore punk but less metallic than grindcore. Of course there is more to it than that since grindcore isn't on this site unless it is metal enough and there is plenty of thrashcore bands here. I have heard some thrashcore and it sounded nothing like thrash metal so why does it share the same name? Can anyone explain all this to me?


Thrashcore (also knows as Fastcore), I knew Rateyourmusic genre profile explained that:
Quote:
The "thrash" in thrashcore is derived from an obsolete term for what is now commonly known as hardcore punk.


Looking in wikipedia I got this:
Quote:
Thrashcore is often confused with crossover thrash and sometimes thrash metal. Further confusion is added by the fact that many crossover bands, such as D.R.I., began as influential thrashcore bands. The term thrashcore is of recent vintage but dates from at least 1993. Throughout the '80s, the term "thrash" was in use as a synonym for hardcore punk (as in the New York Thrash compilation of 1982). It eventually came to be used for the faster, more intense style pioneered by D.R.I., just before their crossover period. The "-core" suffix is necessary to distinguish it from the thrash metal scene, which is also referred to as "thrash" by fans. Still more confusingly, the term "thrashcore" is occasionally used by the music press to refer to thrash metal-inflected metalcore.

Author:  AcidWorm [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

So basically it is metallic sounding hardcore punk that is very fast? How does that differ from grindcore though?

Author:  tomcat_ha [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Thrashcore is older, less extreme and derived from 80's american hardcore. It is a predecessor to powerviolence which took the thrashcore sound but made it more violent and extreme.
Grindcore is derived from european hardcore like Discharge, anti cimex and what not. It's got a lot more crust punk influence and other random influences like industrial.

Author:  AcidWorm [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Thanks guys. That does make more sense to me now.

Author:  The Infamous Bastard [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Folkemon_ wrote:
Are we considering black n roll a real genre these days? If so it should probably be added to Satyricons genre.

Haven't heard any Satyricon, but is it something like the later Darkthrone albums?

Author:  Morsay [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Black grind ? Is it real ?

There is deathgrind so why not.

I've heard a few people mention it when talking about bands like Circle of dead Children and Phantom.

Examples :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T5KIPDwrr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGUzA4cewOU

are these deathgrind ? grindcore ? black metal ?

Author:  TheOldSkull [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

The Infamous Bastard wrote:
Folkemon_ wrote:
Are we considering black n roll a real genre these days? If so it should probably be added to Satyricons genre.

Haven't heard any Satyricon, but is it something like the later Darkthrone albums?



Not at all. Late Darkthrone mixes a lot of genres, including punk, speed and heavy metal with more extreme black or death metal.

Satyricon, well... if you're not familiar with them, in the beginning they played "traditional" black metal, with some viking influences now and then. They got a more modern sound and feel from "rebel extravaganza" onwards. Their music became more groovy, I'd say, simpler on some aspects, probably aiming for more direct efficiency; at some point they got labelled black n roll...which can mean anything, really.

Author:  AcidWorm [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Here is an article about black n' roll that is worth a read if you are wondering about the niche.
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2011/12 ... ck-n-roll/

Author:  vengefulgoat [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Why is black'n'roll considered something more than a joke along the lines of blackcore, bluegrass black metal etc?

Author:  Ohrwurm [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Morsay wrote:
Black grind ? Is it real ?

There is deathgrind so why not.

I've heard a few people mention it when talking about bands like Circle of dead Children and Phantom.

Examples :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T5KIPDwrr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGUzA4cewOU

are these deathgrind ? grindcore ? black metal ?


Phantom:

What the... I would have a hard time even calling that music at all. And I guess the moderators agree, since the band has an album out and isn't in the Archives. I hope I won't ever have to let my ears go through that again.

Circle of Dead Children:

This is deathgrind with some black metal influences.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2bb_EGjcAI

I guess this would just be black metal, done by a deathgrind band and not really blackgrind. (talking about the first half of the song ofcourse)
And even if it would be, half a song wouldn't really make something a genre.

Author:  tomcat_ha [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

i dont agree with all bands that are called black and roll being called black and roll. More than a few of them are just more extreme motorhead soundwise. I call this style of metal motorbastard metal myself.

Author:  AcidWorm [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

vengefulgoat wrote:
Why is black'n'roll considered something more than a joke along the lines of blackcore, bluegrass black metal etc?

Maybe cause rock and roll is the only other genre out of those that hasn't had a stigma attached by metalheads.

Author:  JerryLeeEx [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

tomcat_ha wrote:
i dont agree with all bands that are called black and roll being called black and roll. More than a few of them are just more extreme motorhead soundwise. I call this style of metal motorbastard metal myself.


Motorbastard metal! That's an awesome moniker. I wouldn't mind playing some of that!

Author:  inhumanist [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

The Infamous Bastard wrote:
Folkemon_ wrote:
Are we considering black n roll a real genre these days? If so it should probably be added to Satyricons genre.

Haven't heard any Satyricon, but is it something like the later Darkthrone albums?

Satyricon make black metal flavoured commercial heavy rock. Late Darkthrone strays between speed metal, heavy metal, hardcore punk and lately power metal.

Black'n'roll is just a catch all term for bands that apply aspects of the black metal sound to earlier forms of heavy music.

Author:  infinitenexus [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Can someone describe "post-metal" for me and maybe give an example?

Author:  TheDefiniteArticle [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Is Motorpunk a real genre? The bands that describe themselves as it tend to seem like metalpunk with heavier Motorhead influence than usual.

Author:  Manic Maniac [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

None of the Black 'N' Roll bands I've listened to sound like Motorhead. I have no clue what all of you are talking about.

Author:  Metantoine [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Manic Maniac wrote:
None of the Black 'N' Roll bands I've listened to sound like Motorhead. I have no clue what all of you are talking about.

Come on, dude.

Author:  Manic Maniac [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

But they sound nothing like Kvelertak nor do they sound like Blood Cult.

Author:  Thumbman [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

infinitenexus wrote:
Can someone describe "post-metal" for me and maybe give an example?

It usually is a term for the whole atmospheric sludge sub-gernre pioneered by bands like Neurosis and Isis. However, more recently it has also been used to describe bands such as Giant Squid and Bloodiest.

Author:  iamntbatman [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Manic Maniac wrote:
But they sound nothing like Kvelertak nor do they sound like Blood Cult.


I'm not 100% sure what your point is.

Author:  Ohrwurm [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

There's also a band that call themselves post-grind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGI9oGHjS4M

Author:  AcidWorm [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Manic Maniac wrote:
But they sound nothing like Kvelertak nor do they sound like Blood Cult.

Except your point was that no black n' roll you have heard sounded like Motorhead. He did not imply that all black n' roll sounded like Motorhead.

Author:  Exigence [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

We can go around in circles forever about Motorhead-influenced bands. If you have rock riffs played sloppily fast and a singer who's voice isn't clean...apparently you're inspired by Motorhead. No mention of the fantastic lyrics, attitude or hooks. Listen to a band like Sodom (who does their own style perfectly fine) attempt to cover "Bomber".

That's why shit like Chrome Division fails. No charisma. No magic.

Author:  Manic Maniac [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Well according to the forums, Midnight is labeled as Black/Speed Metal, not Black 'N' Roll. Blood Cult, however is labeled as Black Metal(Early)/Black 'N' Roll(Later).

Author:  LeMiserable [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Why are Schizophrenia/BtR/Arise called Death Metal albums? I can't help but hear mainly Thrash Metal in them? :ugh:

Author:  infinitenexus [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

dystopia4 wrote:
infinitenexus wrote:
Can someone describe "post-metal" for me and maybe give an example?

It usually is a term for the whole atmospheric sludge sub-gernre pioneered by bands like Neurosis and Isis. However, more recently it has also been used to describe bands such as Giant Squid and Bloodiest.


Thanks, checking it out now.

Author:  Yayattasa [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

infinitenexus wrote:
Can someone describe "post-metal" for me and maybe give an example?


The idea behind the name was the same as in post-punk and post-rock (breaking away from genre conventions), but the thing is, it wasn't as post as initially thought, and everything got eventually retagged as Atmospheric Sludge Metal.
"Sludge" because the pioneers of post-metal played plain sludge. But then, Sludge pretty much lost any relations with Doom metal and became a thing of it's own.

I actually prefer the term Post-metal better, because Isis and later Neurosis don't sound like 'conventional' metal to me at all: you hear lot's of crescendos and climaxes in their tracks, and sometimes there's pretty much no rhythm, the songs are bass heavy, etc...

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