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| Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100253 |
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| Author: | Doomed Cowboy [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
NWOTHM- New Wave of Traditional Heavy Metal Now, is this actually a thing? I do think there has been a rise in the number of new traditional bands, but is it enough for it to really be considered a wave? I'm also wondering as to what all it includes, because I've seen newer doom bands and even some power bands that lay a bit more on the US sound included too. Either way I'm happy with these bands coming out, I love me some traditional metal. |
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| Author: | p0wnn00b [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
I guess it's a wave. You have tons of bans playing in a tradition heavy metal and doom metal style. I mean, we have Witchcraft, Portrait, Ghost, Uncle Acid, Orchid, and old bands that are resurging, like Pentagram, Trouble, Satan, Hell, etc. |
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| Author: | tomcat_ha [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
well most of the bands you mentioned are actually part of the retro doom/rock trend. As for new old school heavy metal bands. Well there are not many bands that play rocky heavy metal like old saxon but there i do see more bands who take from early heavy/power. Not enough to be really called a wave i think though. |
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| Author: | Opus [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
It's a thing, a marketing thing. |
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| Author: | Zodijackyl [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
I can't really call it a wave, perhaps an increasing trickle, but it hasn't made much progress and it has been slowly gaining attention for years. Seems like a relatively small number of small bands in the shadow of the resurgence of many superior older bands. |
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| Author: | taufan99 [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
If it's not a local scene and there's no significant change, then it's not a thing. If it's a local scene like British, American, and so on, and there's a significant change, then it is. |
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| Author: | Doomed Cowboy [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
That's about what I thought. I just was hoping it was a thing, because I want it to be. I guess a trickle would be the best way to describe it. I just get excited any time something new comes out in the traditional scene, since there's so little. I like finding new stuff in that vein, I get something out of finding newly created music that I don't get when I find some old buried treasure. That's a different feeling. |
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| Author: | Twisted_Psychology [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
If you're referring to bands like White Wizzard with the NWOTHM tag, then I think there is a movement of sorts though nothing that strikes me as a truly sweeping force. The retro doom stuff seems to be a more prominent trend though I don't think any bands aside from Ghost have really made a mainstream impact. And even then, Ghost changed their sound quite a bit on the new one... |
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| Author: | Mistereyedee [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
It's a term that serves its purpose by giving me a list of Hot Topic-status "true heavy metal" bands to avoid. I never was into any Skull Fist, Enforcer, White Wizzard, Ghost, or Cauldron (Cauldron Born is WAY better). On the other hand, I'll admit that there are a few of them that I don't really mind much, such as Metalucifer or Slough Feg. |
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| Author: | iamntbatman [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
...Slough Feg has been around since 1990, and Metalucifer since 1995. Seems a bit strange to associate them with heavy metal bands that are only a few years old. |
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| Author: | Mistereyedee [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Fair point, but they are recognized widely as part of the throwback scene -- back when this style of metal was losing mainstream support. But there are a few other recent ones that sound good, such as Blaze (JP) or Portrait (SE). Nuclear Strikes is also a fairly decent band from Malaysia. |
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| Author: | Nahsil [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Do not throw Enforcer in with White Wizzard! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. |
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| Author: | Mistereyedee [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
I don't know, but the annoying, Vince Neil-like vocals really don't do me any good. Each to his own. By the way, the only Enforcer I ever loved was the USPM one! |
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| Author: | Abominatrix [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Is it "a thing"? Man, what a question. I guess it depends on where you live/what's going on in the local scene...at least, that's how I'm choosing to interpret this, and from this vantage it certainly seems to be a phenomenon. We have lots of people trying their hands at traditional metal in Ontario and Quebec, and though the number of real quality bands isn't that high, it's still nice to see and most at least put on fun live shows. Not sure how many bands will really "take off" but a few seem to be doing really well....Axxion, Skull Fist, Cauldron, metalian, etc. |
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| Author: | slayrrr666 [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Nahsil wrote: Do not throw Enforcer in with White Wizzard! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. Unfortunately, you should. It's a time-period question, not a quality one. If we're doing it that way, yes, Enforcer is a better retro heavy metal act than White Wizzard. However, this was asked as more of a time-period question so they're gonna get lumped together because they've all done their releases at around the same time. In regards to the OP, I personally love this scene. A great collection of stuff that's overall really enjoyable: Alpha Tiger Attic Cauldron (Ca) Conquest of Steel Cult of the Fox Dark Forest (UK) Enforcer (Swe) Gloryful Hammers of Misfortune Holy Grail Huntress Icarus Witch Mach II Malison Rouge Monument (UK) Natur Overlorde Pharaoh Portrait Powergod Saviours Screamer (Swe) Sign of the Jackal Skelator Steelwing Striker (Ca) Volture White Wizzard Widow Wolf (Swe) Wolfcry Züül I may be missing a couple, and I certainly don't have albums from all these bands, but I've heard enough snippets of each to say that they're all certainly within this 'Throwback' scene of modern heavy metal bands that have formed in the last decade or so. |
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| Author: | seanicus [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Add stuff like Screamer, Borrowed Time and Eternal Champion to that mix. We're proud of it. I grew up on that sound and am happy to finally have a band (EC) that is playing what I couldn't get anyone else to play in the 80s. |
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| Author: | slayrrr666 [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Screamer's in there.  I'll have to look at the other two acts because I've never heard of them before, though I should also point out my list is just the stuff I know about. There's 90,000 some-odd bands in the Archives here, I don't know all of them at the drop of a hat so I'm 100% certain there's going to be stuff not everyone's heard of. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Pharaoh are pretty much on another level from those other bands. So much more artistry and sweep to their music...a great command of songwriting. I sure wish more trad metal was that good without going too far into another subgenre. Same time period, yeah, but far beyond 90% of the rest of this sort of scene songwriting-wise. 
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| Author: | Riffs [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Empyreal wrote: Pharaoh are pretty much on another level from those other bands. So much more artistry and sweep to their music...a great command of songwriting. I sure wish more trad metal was that good without going too far into another subgenre. Same time period, yeah, but far beyond 90% of the rest of this sort of scene songwriting-wise. Funny. I checked the list and Pharaoh jumped at me among all the other juniors in there. I'm not even sure they belong on the list, to be honest. This list is mostly made of a bunch of bands that do mostly old school worship wrapped in nostalgia that at times doesn't always sound entirely sincere on record. Like they don't get it but they're trying to make it fashionable again. Pharaoh is a band that's inspired by the roots of metal and are using this stuff to do music today. They're aware of the past but seems to live in the present and doing their own thing. The whole band is pretty amazing individually too. They're the real deal. |
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| Author: | Von Jugel [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
I'm currently getting a band together that's influenced mostly by the early 80's, NWOBHM/Trad. We're having our first practice this week. We don't care about the current trends, we just want to play music we love. I've heard a few of the bands or slayerrr's list, some are ok, but I'm mostly indifferent so far. |
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| Author: | Metantoine [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
seanicus wrote: Add stuff like Screamer, Borrowed Time and Eternal Champion to that mix. We're proud of it. I grew up on that sound and am happy to finally have a band (EC) that is playing what I couldn't get anyone else to play in the 80s. There's not enough MR influenced bands, glad you guys are doing what you like. |
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| Author: | failsafeman [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Zodijackyl wrote: I can't really call it a wave, perhaps an increasing trickle, but it hasn't made much progress and it has been slowly gaining attention for years. Seems like a relatively small number of small bands in the shadow of the resurgence of many superior older bands. NWOTHM isn't a "thing" the way NWOBHM was, but there has undeniably been much more than a trickle in the last few years. Starting around 2001, a fairly dramatic increase in traditional heavy metal albums started being produced, peaking around 2006 and staying right around that level for the next 6 years. The output in 2006 was nearly double that of 2000, and that's only counting full-lengths. Now, it took a while for that swelling in local popularity to make itself known in the metal consciousness; Portrait were formed in 2004, didn't release an album until 2008, and didn't release a really good album until 2011. Since the advent of the internet, it's become harder to lock bands down into regional scenes; however, as Abominatrix noted, Canada has been a hotbed of creativity in this style, with bands like Skull Fist, Metalian, Tales of Medusa, Phantom, Striker. Another big one is Sweden (Portrait, In Solitude, Malison Rogue, Helvetets Port, Trial, RAM, Air Raid, Rocka Rollas). Of course there are tons more, but I just listed some good ones. So, in summary: it's not really a "sound" the way NWOBHM was, and I personally don't use the term, but the phenomenon "NWOTHM" refers to is definitely real. |
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| Author: | Abominatrix [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Oh yes, I forgot about Phantom; they're also local guys and really, really good. Also look out for Call of the Wild, some really nice speed metal. Black Absinthe...there's another one, although they're more on the dirty/Motorhead/Metallica-inspired end of things I guess. I didn't mention Striker because they're from Alberta, but wow did they ever put on a great show a couple of months back... One thing that I've noticed about some of these bands though: They love to play shows, and some of them are very talented, which is great...but I've been waiting for some of these bands to put out a record for what feels like ages. Sometimes it's the not so great ones, like skull Fist, that seem to be the real "go-getters'. Ah well, so it goes I suppose. |
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| Author: | Doomed Cowboy [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
I think failsafe grabbed what I meant when I wrote this up. It just seems like a jump in the amount of bands. I've also heard some argue that its a general revival of any pre black or pre death metal style, including thrash, doom, and traditional. I can see the argument there. |
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| Author: | Deaderthebetter [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
What the hell this is actually happening?! ...finally! Way too early to call though... |
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| Author: | slayrrr666 [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
failsafeman wrote: Zodijackyl wrote: I can't really call it a wave, perhaps an increasing trickle, but it hasn't made much progress and it has been slowly gaining attention for years. Seems like a relatively small number of small bands in the shadow of the resurgence of many superior older bands. NWOTHM isn't a "thing" the way NWOBHM was, but there has undeniably been much more than a trickle in the last few years. Starting around 2001, a fairly dramatic increase in traditional heavy metal albums started being produced, peaking around 2006 and staying right around that level for the next 6 years. The output in 2006 was nearly double that of 2000, and that's only counting full-lengths. Now, it took a while for that swelling in local popularity to make itself known in the metal consciousness; Portrait were formed in 2004, didn't release an album until 2008, and didn't release a really good album until 2011. Since the advent of the internet, it's become harder to lock bands down into regional scenes; however, as Abominatrix noted, Canada has been a hotbed of creativity in this style, with bands like Skull Fist, Metalian, Tales of Medusa, Phantom, Striker. Another big one is Sweden (Portrait, In Solitude, Malison Rogue, Helvetets Port, Trial, RAM, Air Raid, Rocka Rollas). Of course there are tons more, but I just listed some good ones. So, in summary: it's not really a "sound" the way NWOBHM was, and I personally don't use the term, but the phenomenon "NWOTHM" refers to is definitely real. Aside from the comment about locking bands together in a group because they come from the same geographic reason (a practice I feel the metal community as a whole does at a glance merely to save time and trouble rather than actually taking the time to invest in a band's entire career outside of the "singles" that are streamed online) I wholeheartedly agree with this. Not just with my list (which is subject to a lot of debate, I get that Pharoah is a questionable one as well as a few others but they stick out for me more than any of the others) but the fact is there's ample evidence right there between the two of our posts that there is a genuine revival of sorts within the trad heavy metal scene of nostalgia-worshipping acts that what would be expected. |
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| Author: | Nahsil [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
seanicus wrote: Add stuff like Screamer, Borrowed Time and Eternal Champion to that mix. We're proud of it. I grew up on that sound and am happy to finally have a band (EC) that is playing what I couldn't get anyone else to play in the 80s. Good to see you around here! Caught the Chaos in Tejas set, love you guys' stuff. Make sure to visit the heavy/power/speed thread in the rec forum. |
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| Author: | Woolie_Wool [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Riffs wrote: Empyreal wrote: Pharaoh are pretty much on another level from those other bands. So much more artistry and sweep to their music...a great command of songwriting. I sure wish more trad metal was that good without going too far into another subgenre. Same time period, yeah, but far beyond 90% of the rest of this sort of scene songwriting-wise. Funny. I checked the list and Pharaoh jumped at me among all the other juniors in there. I'm not even sure they belong on the list, to be honest. This list is mostly made of a bunch of bands that do mostly old school worship wrapped in nostalgia that at times doesn't always sound entirely sincere on record. Like they don't get it but they're trying to make it fashionable again. Pharaoh is a band that's inspired by the roots of metal and are using this stuff to do music today. They're aware of the past but seems to live in the present and doing their own thing. The whole band is pretty amazing individually too. They're the real deal. Does Tim Aymar do those hideous harmony bits from "Sunrise" in all the songs? They're really, really bad and I could not listen to a whole album full of them. Other than that they're pretty good but definitely not trad metal--they're a power metal band through and through. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Those harmonies aren't bad but no he doesn't do them in all the songs. They also got way better after that album. Their power metal/heavy metal status is a bit debatable but I'd still say attitude-wise and riff-wise they fall more in the trad. metal playground than anything. Either one works though, I guess. |
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| Author: | Doomed Cowboy [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Not really sure about the rules on bumping, but I figured it would be better to bump this than thread again than start talking somewhere else. I've been thinking about this scene and such, and I really think there needs to be more of a push behind it to really get it off of the ground. Right now, its not really seen as much. Many see it as a poorly designed push to try and get metal popular again, nothing more than a tool being used by record companies and metal magazines. (From what I can tell, Metal Hammer coined NWOTHM, so there's a certain stigma around the whole thing because of that. Many also accuse Earache in some form.) Others view it as a poor attempt to return, similar to the re-thrash movement that is just full of copy cats and shit musicianship. I think it just needs more support to really get anywhere and get into the eye of the metal world. I get really excited to see anything from one of these new bands, but unless they're on a big label or go on tour with a big name, they'll be more lost than a bedroom black metal band, seeing as there are more willing to dig for that bedroom black metal than find something a little more old school. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Doomed Cowboy wrote: seeing as there are more willing to dig for that bedroom black metal than find something a little more old school. Nope. |
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| Author: | Doomed Cowboy [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Empyreal wrote: Doomed Cowboy wrote: seeing as there are more willing to dig for that bedroom black metal than find something a little more old school. Nope. Maybe not bedroom black metal, but some over-glorified tech death or some type of black metal. Harsh vocals are king. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Dude, while there are plenty of kids now who love extreme shit, it's not nearly as woeful as you make it sound on the traditional front. Stuff like the so-called "NWOTHM" will never be on the charts and probably won't be big in popular trendy magazines, but who cares? There are plenty of people who like it anyway and this whole attitude you have like it's some great drought of traditional old school stuff is just silly. You're overreacting. |
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| Author: | AppleQueso [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Doomed Cowboy wrote: Maybe not bedroom black metal, but some over-glorified tech death or some type of black metal. Harsh vocals are king. Why you care so much about the perceived popularity of what you like/don't like is beyond me. If anything, a band with clean vocals is probably more likely to stand out and get some attention than your average me-too tech death or whatever it is you're complaining about. Do you have any clue how many shitty brutal death bands and whatnot get tossed by the wayside and never discussed at all? Also, I feel like it's worth pointing out that the size of the Heavy/Power/Speed Help thread in Rec Central completely dwarfs all of the other genre Rec threads by a considerable amount. Trad metal is far from unpopular or shunned or overlooked or what-have-you. |
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| Author: | Doomed Cowboy [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
I have my own reasons for caring about the perceived views on what I like being popular or not, which I will not go into here. I just take issue with it all because you don't really see much show up on any sites that has clean vocals that isn't doom or metalcore. Out of all the metalheads I know, which truthfully is a small pool, I only know 1 person who actually listens to metal with clean vocals. I also run into a huge rash of people who go as far as to argue that something isn't metal if it doesn't have harsh vocals. Its insane. I've even gotten to the point where I can't stand talking to people about music, one thing I actually like to talk about, because they don't understand the non-extreme side of metal. I also pointed out the tech-death and all that bullshit because, guess what, it must be what really is popular, or everybody and their dog wouldn't be making it. The same with metalcore and black metal. Hell, there were barely 40 people at the show when I went to see Turisas this year, and the owner of the place said it was one of their biggest nights for a band with clean vocals in over two years. Hell, I have trouble finding people who can name a current band who has clean vocals. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Well, that sounds like your problem, not theirs. I love talking to people about music because I like all sorts of different stuff. Even though I might not get to talk about some of my favorite trad metal bands all the time, there's plenty of other music I like that I can talk about with people. If you have that hard of a time finding people to talk to about it, that just means you have very narrow and boring interests. |
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| Author: | AppleQueso [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Yup, I don't know a single person locally who's into any kind of metal at all, most of my IRL discussion amounts to talking about Black Sabbath a bit with a couple of old guys who are into classic rock. Also, low turnouts are a common problem for damn near any metal band, no matter what the genre. Someone in here once mentioned going to a Vektor show that had like 50 people, and Vektor told them it was actually a pretty good turnout. And I really, really can't think of a single good reason for caring so much about whether or not what you like is popular. |
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| Author: | Exigence [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Wolf is so much better than most of those bands. Shit like Enforcer, Steelwing, Katana, Holy Grail, White Wizzard, Fueled by Fire, Huntress, Lords of the Trident, Striker, Skull Fist, Bloodbound, Cauldron and I guess Ghost.....none of them have a great songs, they're just playing in a niche style that was mostly avoided in the 90s and 2000s as power metal and extreme metal evolved. Wolf has awesome songs, however. The rest are like the shitty second comings of Tygers of Pan Tang. |
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| Author: | Zerberus [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
I'm not too happy about all those supposed "waves" going on nowadays. New wave of thrash, new wave of trad, whatever. There will always be tendencies in all genres, but more often than not it hardly qualifies as an actual wave. Even so Ranger and Speedtrap from Finland, although probably more closely related to speed metal, more or less fit the bill too. Exigence wrote: Wolf is so much better than most of those bands. Shit like Enforcer, Steelwing, Katana, Holy Grail, White Wizzard, Fueled by Fire, Huntress, Lords of the Trident, Striker, Skull Fist, Bloodbound, Cauldron and I guess Ghost.....none of them have a great songs, they're just playing in a niche style that was mostly avoided in the 90s and 2000s as power metal and extreme metal evolved. Wolf has awesome songs, however. The rest are like the shitty second comings of Tygers of Pan Tang. That's a really stupid post, dude. People have different opinions, and Enforcer isn't half bad. |
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| Author: | Atropus [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the NWOTHM actually a thing? |
Original question...... No, I don't really think so. I just think a lot of the new generation of metalheads nowadays want to keep in tough with or connect to the old spirit of heavy metal, and keep the sound alive. I don't think it to be any sort of concentrated movement or scene..... |
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