Recursive labeling to make sure you know it sucks, at a glance.

I'd guess that the label has emerged because it makes a more distinct acronym.

Is Grind 'n' Roll a real genre? According to the Metal Archives there are bands that fall under this 'genre'.

Apparently, it is something such as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f04tQkixbck

Some other representative bands are Mucupurulent, Smrz! and Dalle Killers.

Is Deathgrind an actual genre too? I know this sounds silly but wiki gives deathgrind and goregrind the same definition and im well aware goregrind is a genre, so what is deathgrind and does it have any significant differences?

I always assumed it was a kind of "play" off of NSBM.

Is there any difference between 'experimental' and 'avant-garde' metal? I see a lot of bands listed either under the avant-garde or experimental label or even under both.

deathgrind is exactly what it describes more death metal oriented(to various extend however) than normal grindcore. A classic example would be Terrorizer as opposed to the more punk FETO by napalm death.



i think often here experimental is used in context with bands that still noticeably play a certain genre but just with a really weird take on it. While avant garde often breaks through various barriers. Solefald would be a good example of avant garde metal and yte gut would be for experimental black metal.

I'm not convinced by that example. Sounds to me like an ex-grind band just playing something more akin to metal with a more rock n roll vibe. Basically, I hear no grind in that.

Essentially, what does "shred" mean?

String instrument wankery.

Tolkien wrote on this matter: "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who shred are wank".

Is this song some kind of significant shred music example?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpJDgQGgRkM

Some totally random thoughts on shred...

Well, Vinnie Moore is part of the shredder movement of the 80s that was spearheaded by Shrapnel Records, the company of Mike Varney, a man obsessed with shredding guitar and the man who brought Malmsteen to the US. Where, "shred" is basically being able to play real fast, real difficult stuff.

The most well-known and loved by the metal community shredders/albums:

Malmsteen (try his first three). Basically the man who made shredding (esp. neoclassical shredding) a thing. Also pretty much responsible for the european power metal sound along with the Keepers.
Steve Vai: Passion and Warfare (more than just metal)
Marty Friedman - Dragon's Kiss and his work on Rust in Peace.
Jason Becker - Perpetual Burn (one of my favorite albums ever)
Cacophony (feat. Becker and Friedman)- Speed Metal Symphony
Vinnie Moore - Mind's Eye and Time Odyssey
Racer X and Paul Gilbert, Ritchie Kotzen, Joey Tafolla (also in Jag Panzer), etc. Tony McAlpine is also very well known from that gang but I was never a big fan of his work, always seemed rather forgettable. Equally forgettable (but I just like the guy, so 80s) is Michael Angelo Batio.

Of course there were always some guitarists that stood out from a shredding standpoint: Alex Skolnic of Testament was way ahead of his peers technically. Jeff Waters of Annihilator. Josh Christian of Toxik. The guitar duo of Vicious Rumors were always known for their shredding abilities. Guys from Heathen, guys from Forbidden (ALL THREE OF THEM). Chastain (HEAVY METAL, I WORSHIP LEATHER LEONE), Impelitteri...

In the 90s technical abilities were much more common. Petrucci became a favorite shredder to many. Personally I like the 3 wacky shredders: Buckethead, Bumblefoot and Freak Kitchen's Mattias IA Eklundh. They have written very original music all three of them. Not metal necessarily, although they do have stuff like that.

But also Loomis (great), Michael Romeo of Symphony X, Broderick... These are all modern shredders. Loomis is a great musician. Broderick, not so much. So shredding is not exactly a guarantee of greatness on the instrument. Quite the contrary, it is very easy to sound BORING as fuck, wankery as Azmodes put it. Plenty of those around. Basically from the mid-90s you could hear countless guitarists doing countless sweeping arpeggios or "soap bubbles" as we call them in Greece.

I love good shredding but it's not the shredding per se. I always loved a good axeman or guitar hero. My favorites were always Andy LaRocque and Criss Oliva, both capable of shredding (not the most mindblowing but still) but most of all they could write GODLY solos. It's all down to music, if it speaks to you. You can always tell a good guitarist/shredder from just an "exercise man"-shredder.

You can't go wrong with a Joe Stump best of, either.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Joe_Stump/5102

Thank you for the great explanation!

Since it was randomly on my mind - is there any real difference between "progressive metal" and "progressive heavy metal"? Seems like a redundancy in the latter's case, but I don't really know for sure.

I wouldn't read into the difference there. Based on personal experience, about 90% of the time "progressive/heavy metal" is a mix of Dream Theater influence (but not as progressive) and some sorta heavy metal/rock.

Yeah. I guess it can be meaningful to distinguish more traditional bands with an elaborate edge from "standard" DT-style prog, but in many cases the tags probably describe more or less the same. Especially for "prog/heavy" vs. "prog heavy".

You should understand that while we do endeavour to codify and streamline the genre field site-wide, we aren't excessively anal about ordering, use of descriptors and detailed, rigid regulating of nested syntax. There's always going to be the somewhat random factor of how something was first submitted and/or modified, i.e. what the exact wording was and whether we chose to leave it at that as adequate/"close enough". To use the "prog/heavy" example, picture a submission using the variant with the slash, and another without it. In that scenario, both describe stylistically similar/identical bands in slightly different ways, yet in both cases the moderator sees no need to further modify or standardise the tag, since we don't treat these strings that restrictively. The same would apply to "prog" vs. "prog heavy", with potential redundancy resulting (note that redundant data is not the same as incorrect data), even though the greater difference in form can represent an intentional choice to reflect difference in sound.

Some people might find that sloppy, but it's been proven sufficient (though adjustments and standardisation efforts following internal discussion are of course not unheard of).

Oh, and about my use of "wankery" in regard to shred... it wasn't meant in a categorically disparaging manner. Just that the emphasis is on technical excess. I do love me some Vai or Gilbert sometimes.

Can't believe I forgot Joe Satriani...

Technical excess definitely was a thing in the shredding circles but I am not sure it's fair to say that it was the focus of the music. It was in some cases but overall the best of them were ultimately great, pioneering musicians. Vai, Satriani, Becker, Friedman, Moore, they all wrote incredibly BEAUTIFUL music.

(I know you know, just wanted to explicitly say it!)

Still, I'd say it's what largely defines the genre term, as opposed to just being a virtuoso musician. I mean, even the verb "to shred" (in the instrument context) is fairly straightforward in its meaning. That being said, there's not that many "pure" shredders out there. It's usually paired up with some kind of instrumental, progressive, hard rock, metal or fusion or whatever. More like an approach to playing than a musical style anyway.

What defines "brutal death metal"? If I'm understanding things correctly (which I doubt I am), it seems as if it was once a term for the more downtuned, blastbeat and GROOOOOOOOO filled DM bands, as opposed to ones more like Obituary or Death.

Is epic Nu metal a thing? How about radical centrist black metal?

No and no. Man, you're really milking this thread title hard.

Guys, come here with legitimate stupid genre questions. If you just come here to make shit up and post dumb things I'll crack your skulls and remove your decaying grey matter with a grapefruit spoon.

You're not too far off. I'd say that "Brutal" Death Metal bands are distinct enough from other death metal bands to warrant being called Brutal Death Metal, although simply calling them Death Metal would suffice as well. Basically Brutal Death Metal has more down-tuned guitars, relies heavily on palm-muting, is often much faster and more percussive than standard Death Metal. Blast-beats and extremely fast double bass often dominate the drumming department. Vocals are also typically extremely guttural, completely unintelligible, and just sound downright inhuman. Bands like Hour of Penance, Defeated Sanity, Wormed, Putridity, Pathology, Vomit the Soul, Disgorge, etc. are considered Brutal Death Metal. Suffocation is basically the progenitor of Brutal Death Metal so most bands who sound like them would probably be labeled as such.

It's also worth nothing that Brutal Death Metal is often mistaken for "Slam". "Slam" is essentially Brutal Death Metal, but more so an off-shoot, with more emphasis on groove and obviously slams. Guitars generally move much more slowly than typical Brutal Death. Bands like Devourment, Katalepsy, Abominable Putridity, etc. are considered Slam.

If you want a good example of a band that went from Brutal Death to Tech Death, you could listen to Decrepit Birth's ...And Time Begins then Decrepit Birth's Diminishing Between Worlds. It's quite a notable change in sound.

Brutal death metal also tends to incorporate a lot of grindcore influences with some bands basically being deathgrind.

^^

no. death-metal-over-blastbeats is not deathgrind. none of the bands on the above list by HighClassSavage "grind".

proper brutal-death/grind integrates abrasive glissando riffs (aka Crust). the songs transition between the crusty grind bits and death metal riffing while thrash (the common element)holds it all together.

a good example of brutal death/grind is "Chaos Dissection Order" by Inhume.

Speedcore? What in the world is that?

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/NOISM/4586

It's a subgenre of electronic music - basically the non-metal parts of NOISM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedcore

Oh shit, I actually thought it was a retarded mix of speed metal and metal/deathcore. Excuse my ignorance.

If any genre has more ridiculous subgenres and labels than metal, it's electronic music. Take a look at this interactive style map:

http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/

Yeah, electronic music does have a lot of subgenres indeed. Even when I was a fan of electronic music some years back, I was like "why?". I couldn't for the life of me tell the difference between EBM and industrial. Metal isn't even that bad when it comes to all its subgenres. It only gets ridiculous when morons start labelling stuff Nintendocore, asscore and whatnot.

What separates speed metal from say, thrash or NWOBHM? Speaking of which, could anyone name the characteristics that set out NWOBHM from straight up heavy metal, if any?

You could use the search function, GoatBoat. This has been discussed extensively in this thread.

Can someone explain what "war metal" is? I consider myself pretty well versed in black metal but what makes something war metal as opposed to regular bm? Is it a serious subgenre or is it just another vague Wikipedia genre?

From what I know it is a term that describes (raw) black/death (sometimes with grindcore influences). I don't think "war metal" really makes sense as a genre name since it is mostly just some extreme metal genres thrown together but if you want to know what bands are called "war metal" check out Blasphemy, Revenge, Proclamation, Black Witchery, Conqueror and Nuclearhammer (there is way more ofc just wanted to name some bands).

For me those bands are just playing a style of raw black/death and I don't think that it needs a new genre at all, I can't actually tell you where the term "war metal" came from.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me like the bands referring to themselves as "war metal" have significant grindcore, black metal and death metal influences, sometimes to the point where it can't be considered one of the genres with influences from another. I dunno if it could be considered a new genre, or just a few bands with a similar style.



Huh, I didn't even see it. Thanks!

Can anybody tell me why this band is being marketed as metal (among other genres)? I'm not just talking about the Bandcamp tag. I've come across it in metal distros' newsletters and at metal webzines. Transferred to a guitar, many of the riffs can be metal riffs, but as it stands, are they? Is metal only about the riffs? What about distortion? What about percussion? Look, I love this shit - probably one of my top picks for 2015 - but I don't seem to understand. Anyone?

A little off topic and stupid question about genres, but is a doubt i had for a long time while see some band's genres: For you is the same genre a band who plays melodic doom death than a band who plays melodic death doom metal? Or intencionally is changed the position of the death/doom, doom/death in order to emphasize in one of the two subgenres?

Thanks

I guess that kind of makes sense, its like when bands describe their music as "dark metal", maybe its not a real genre but I see where they're coming from.

How come we dont call Vital Remains brutal or technical death metal? I think they're significantly more intense than standard death metal