All of them, and neither. It's a mock name given to generic black metal you don't like, not that hard to grasp. Don't like 1349? Call them norsecore. Don't like Immortal? Call them norsecore. Don't like Dimmu Borgir? Call them norsecore.

It's number one. Sorry to come off as the asshole authoritarian on this but really, the term's been bandied around since hte mid-90s when "norsecore" was really the "in" thing, and it wouldn't make sense to call 2 or 3 norsecore, as this style did prominently originate from Scandinavia. Now nobody has to use or acknowledge the damned thing; as has been said it's not an actual genre name...

Nightmare, that's not correct; norsecore is very specific and plenty of "generic, boring black metal" is not norsecore.

I spot the problem here, methinks... seriously though, that's the way I've always perceived it, something people call black metal they don't like. I somehow doubt anyone's ever said "Yeah I listen to a lot of norsecore" to anyone, so to speak.

Okay, so there was the Enthroned thread where someone said it was norsecore, I guess later Enthroned would actually be considered that after all, but it's not really derogatory I suppose.

They don't. Well, they might now, with a bit of a grin, but they certainly didn't back then. But it's still pretty simple...it's called norsecore because it's black metal, likely to originate from Scandinavia (Sweden if we really want to start getting specific, but it's not necessary really as this is about a sound we're describing) that sounds akin to grindcore with long songs and probably (but not necessarily) satanic lyrics, hyperactive blasting drums, loads of fast tremolo chords, etc. I can't be certain about this but it's possible that Black Goat from the Barbarian Wrath/Nazguls Aerie was one of the first to use the term, if not to coin it outright. Note that his label is/was decidedly "anti-norsecore", and they didn't want to sign bands like that at all. He even said at one point that he wasn't interested in releasing new material from Amon (CZ) because it sounded like norsecore. Darkthrone were never fast enough to be norsecore; their stuff is firmly rooted in more traditional metal paradigms.

HOlocaust, yeah, I think later Enthroned would certainly qualify. The fact that you say it may not be derogatory only means that somehow the term has slowly made its way into the "lexicon", for better or worse. Note that this is by far one of my least favourite styles of black metal, but I do enjoy some stuff that I would admit falls into the scope of "norsecore" from time to time...something like The Abyss's second album, maybe Dawn. hell, even Abigor sometimes bares that norsecore trademark, albeit with a lot of crazy embellishments...

Well in my book, a plethora of blast beats and tremolo riffs isn't necessarily a bad thing, so I don't see how calling something norsecore should be negative, unless a person doesn't like that specific style. It would be like calling something deathgrind and insinuating that means it is shitty. I don't think I will ever refer to anything as norsecore outside of this thread. To me it is just an unnecessary label for a black metal subgenre.

It's meant as a slight..I don't think those bands think of themselves as being related more to grindcore than black metal either. Anyway, whoever first coined this (Blackgoat or somebody else) is probably laughing about how this probably-at-the-time thoughtless moniker is still getting tossed around today.

No, no, son, Dino Burger are in the "fag-goth*" genre. Don't you kids know anything?

Also, I'd like to thank the ever-eloquent Abominatrix and some others for stepping in to the conversation and clearing things up. I'm a huge etymology geek and all of this misinformation and guessing was driving me nuts.


*Fag-goth was a term used about fifteen years ago to describe symphonic bands like Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir. This one is far dumber than "norsecore".

they're backlash-terms, plain and simple. dark funeral starts playing some kind of constant-blasting music that you couldn't really call anything but black metal, but you don't want it associated with classics like hvis lyset tar oss or vikinglr veldi? dark funeral is now norsecore. same with faggoth - cradle of filth are in the same boat, but have some kind of vampire shtick and girls try to mould their "dark burlesque show" bullshit around some loose association with them? they're now faggoth.

if you're trying to determine an exact genre out of all this, you're missing the point entirely imo.

You know...you're absolutely right.

The term probably became associated with the style we've been talking about afterward (because, truthfully, the term is used nowadays in reference to the blasty Dark Funeral end of things), but, yeah, it was most likely coined as a random insult against any Nordic bands that certain black metal purists didn't care for.

This basically. I've always had it down as quite an old term that was used to describe the wave of bands that came out after the initial 'second wave', so mid 90s onwards, when there was a mass of bands formed or evolving that would become to sound quite generic. It's not necessarily a derogatory phrase, I like most Norsecore.

I think it was intended to be derogatory, as the bands those people like they would refer to simply as "black metal".

The tag is pretty stupid and I didn't know about it before reading it here. For those generic bm acts I say things like 'Darkthrone/Mayhem/Marduk/Dark Funeral' copies or sometimes I say things like 'as generic as Dark Funeral'.

Good work, man. That'll stick it to those guys using a term everyone understands...

I hope you are not implying that those four bands sound the same.....

This is the best definition. Norsecore is basically music that apes the sound and aesthetic tropes of 2nd wave black metal in a cartoonish attempt to sound as evil as possible without contributing even a morsel of artistic imagination. The reason that norsecore is bad is that it is charmless and derivative, it doesn't have the dignity of being a spirited, vigorous failure, it just sucks ass. Once you have heard a norsecore song once, you will never hear anything new in it with any subsequent listens. Dark Funeral are the paragons of norsecore

okay lets end this

Listen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C0eeVYd ... re=related

Blast beats entire song: Check
"Evil" tremolo riffs: check
Satan: check

And there you have it folks. Norsecore.

The correct things have been said in this thread many times, but as have a lot of incorrect or no longer correct statements, so here goes.

Norsecore is fast, blast beat laden, tremolo focussed black metal with an extremely limited scope of vaiariation. It is not a genre in it's own right, and more or less functions as a descriptor term for that summary. It is often satanic in nature, but doesn't have to be, since and albums like Marduk's Nightwing is about Dracula, yet is still very much a norsecore album (and a good one at that). It could be said that being over the top in general to the lyrics could fit though.

Norsecore indeed was initially a derogatory term, and is indeed still used as one quite often, but due to extremely narrow and easily identifiable qualities it has become something of a perfectly valid term to use in a positive manner. Being a mere descriptor rather than a genre, it is unlikely and ill fitting to be used in the context of "I listen to a lot of norsecore". Due to it's derogatory beginnings, it in no way reflects it's actual contents in it's name. While indeed Scandinavian in origin, it can be from any country in the world (much like Swedeath no longer has to be from Sweden when used as a descriptor for a certain strain of death metal), but in that case Norse makes some sense, it does not however refer to vikings or anything like that. Obviously the core is just an extremely rudimentary allusion to the blastbeating nature of grindcore, the music bares exceedingly minimal to grind, and the use of the term is basically entire due to it's dismissive and insult based beginnings rather than factual accuracy.

What Norsecore is NOT: Black metal that you consider badly composed or simply disliked black metal. Maybe initially when the term was first thrown around this would fit, but things change, and now since the term actually has a workable definition, this does not apply. TheNiceNightmare is dead, dead wrong on that part. And poor composision is pretty much subjective, and since norsecore bands vary from non-repeating riff streams with no returning riffs or hooks to songs wiht verses and choruses, the composition element makes no sense. On this same note being devoid of substance or atmosphere is subjective also, all though the style definitely requires a complete ignorance of ideas that would typically be used to create an atmospheric setting, instead resorting to the afformentioned blast-blast-blast-tremolo-tremolo set up.

And I don't know where the idea of it being hipster BM came from, it is admittedly surprisingly popular, but certainly in no way releated to hipsters.

Norsecore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2qGV-HRc9Q

NOT Norsecore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1SUERZf9tA

Yeah i always thought it was ment to mean black/grind but then ive heard people say a lot of different things.
In the end norsecore seem to be mostly a term that was heavily used 10 years ago but since has become steadily less used and popular.

I don't think it was ever heavily used. I read the term a few times in the late 90s early 00s. Never heard anyone actually talk about it. Dismissed it and moved on, which I think most people did.

I've seen it used in the past quite a bit, actually, in reviews, interviews, web-site catalogs, etc. I'd never actually seen a discussion about it until now, it was just one of those words everybody knew the meaning and intent of so there was no need to discuss it. Apparently, the meaning was lost over time. I have it in the music part of my Facebook profile just because I find it funny (and, yes, I do enjoy norsecore--Marduk is one of favorite bands). It sounds so juvenile, you know, like calling someone a doody-head and then acting all smug like you really nailed him where it counts.

I meant that I've never heard anyone use the word in any conversation. I've seen it written in a few interviews/reviews in the past, way back. I like Marduk too, but to me they are just a blasting black metal. Never had anyone mention how they are Norsecore when speaking of them, which to me shows the lack of use of the term.

Yeah, I get what you mean now, and I'd say you're pretty much right. Nobody uses it casually in reference to a musical style the way you use "death metal" or "pirate rap." I use it with tongue planted firmly in cheek, and only on the Internet (this mainly because I have like one friend who's into metal the way I am).

The term originated from a conversation Orlok and I had with a case of beer in Winter 1994. We tried to find a descriptive term for the music neither of us thought deserved to be called "Black Metal" but was called such nevertheless. He gave "Pitchfork Punk" while I came up with "Norsecore". The latter stuck... It basically means supposed BM that is clearly influenced by the Grind / Punk that had killed off Death Metal just a few years prior to our conversation. To us it was neither "Black" as in dark, evil, obscure and invoking an atmosphere (unless you count nausea) nor "Metal" as in derived from actual Heavy Metal.

By now, some 18 years later and in the light of the countless NEW musical abominations that are called "Black Metal" in 2012 the relevance of the term is somewhat questionable. Not that I care much to be honest

Well...I guess that settles that for all time.

I've always kind of wondered exactly where it came from. Thank you for the history lesson

You're welcome