Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives :: View topic - [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)

Kalimata, your comment about “post-“ is assuming that the scenes that develop around different music genres name or talk about their genres/scenes in the same way and they don’t. Punk and hardcore especially use location to talk about and differentiate “genres” a lot more than metal does.

Your statement is absolutely right and I'm well aware the different music genres have their own way to classify their inner subgenres and scenes. But that doesn't mean everything must be taken for granted.

If we try to think music classification globally and make it something relevant, we have to move beyond the perspective of your inner musical culture, especially when we use terms that are already used by scientists, musicologists or by other genres' community. Most of the subgenres and subscenes created by the medias and taken for granted by fans make no sense musicologically speaking and are terms that are used randomly just to create new trends. That's why we don't need most of those absurd new subgenres because it only contributes to make things confusing. And this is my opinion that music classification should be thought globally and not from your own genre's perspective or from the doxa or medias' imagination.

Finally, each genre having its own way of classifying is not necessarily a good thing. Since its inception, the metal community has build a strong cultural identity and is overall made of passionate fans that are cultured and open minded enough to come up with a more or less decent classification of their own genre according to global music classification standards. But this is not the case for all genres of music's community and they shouldn't be taken as an example.

"Post-" has an accurate meaning in music classification and shouldn't be used randomly as we do. Linguistics defines "post-" as a concept that follows one another, using some its core elements but in a different frame and I a way that cannot be clearly defined. I don't think this definition is exactly applied for post-metal or post-hardcore.

Firstly, post-punk might historically be the first rock subgenre using the "post-" descriptor. In the late 70's and early 80's, it was used as an umbrella term for all bands having punk roots in their music but turning the rage into something more arty, dissonant or adding other musical experiments. Therefore it could include a large panel of things like some new-wave bands, cold wave, early industrial rock, emerging batcave, death rock and gothic rock...
But as things got more precise with time, a lot of those subgenre got a name of their own. Post-punk started to be used as a subgenre name too and not only as an umbrella term. As such, it became limited to the punkier bands that used those weird experiments, like early Siouxsie and the Banshees or Joy Division. While those departing from the punk roots would be called gothic rock. This is at least how the gothic community tend to see it.
Finally, there was this "post-punk" revival in the 2000's, but most of what I've heard of this sounds more pop/cold-wave, which has added to the confusion.
So as often in music, we're left with a double-meaning term, just like it's the case for "heavy metal" or "rock" and many others: one being an umbrella term and one being a specific subgenre of this umbrella term.
... to whom it gave its name...

As for post-rock and post-metal, I know some refer to these terms as specific subgenres, but it's my personal point of view that they are misnomers because the meaning of "post" is very broad and then it always should correspond to an umbrella term, like it used to be for post-punk in the first place.

Auch wrote:

What are some examples of this? I'm not really that knowledgeable about punk and hardcore after the very early stuff, and it seems to me that metal uses regional terms as a shorthand for describing a certain subgenre's sound fairly often, especially in death metal and black metal.

If it's pretty heavy with distorted guitars is it not kind of just metal really?

lostalbumguru wrote:

If it's pretty heavy with distorted guitars is it not kind of just metal really?

No. No no. No no no no. No!

I really want to make a case for a few albums in the posthardcore area, but haven't had much luck adding the bands. If it's pretty heavy with distorted guitars is it not kind of just metal really?

I'm sorry but breakdowns don't make something hardcore. If you listen to pure original hardcore,breakdowns are most of the time non-existent while they are more common in metal. I hear almost nothing in deathcore that has a musical link with Bad Brains or Black Flag.

Modern "heavy" breakdowns originated in the early 80s hardcore scene and developed within that scene (Particularly in NYHC) to become the chugga chugga type riffs you see now in Metalcore/Deathcore by the early 90s. Metal bands didn't start it and the occasional use of these breakdowns by Thrash/Groove bands (Slayer, Carnivore, Pantera, etc.) is because these people were listening to and around lot of the aforementioned hardcore records and bands.

So no, chugga chugga riffs and breakdowns aren't metal and don't sound metal outside of surface level characteristics like guitar tone/production.

21stCenturySkippyMan wrote:

Well, breakdowns are metal depending on its rhythm and songwriting, for example, the breakdown for this song by Carcass, which are goregrind (aka gore metal, for the Exhumed nerds).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6zOG_CrwnE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oVW8gcse4g (Laid to Rest)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDATU5_jeC0 (Domination)

These two bands on these two tracks are well-known and labeled by most of metalheads as metal, both being groove metal.

If you're trying to draw attention to specific sections of songs to make an argument, it's helpful to put time stamps please.

Well yeah, in these cases the overall songs are metal, so the brief chugga chugga part is just a section of the song. I'm not saying everything with a breakdown is automatically non-metal lol.

I was just demonstrating via historical musical development why (modern) breakdowns and chug riffs aren't intrinsically metal, and why core bands where chug riffs are all or most of their material shouldn't be regarded as such.

what the fuck is brown metal

Is post metal considered to be a type of progressive metal? By post metal, I am referring to bands like Deftones, Isis, Cult of Luna or Agalloch. Do they count as prog metal or is post metal just a separate thing?

I have been into trap metal for about one year now---Is it really considered metal since there is a little rap mixed in from time to time??? Kim Dracula is my favorite trap metal artists...

Do you guys consider technical death metal and progressive death metal to be two different and separate genres?

SanPeron wrote:

Do you guys consider technical death metal and progressive death metal to be two different and separate genres?

Yes, they are different genres. I don't understand what the question is?

Author:	Kalimata [ Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Firstly, post-punk might historically be the first rock subgenre using the "post-" descriptor. In the late 70's and early 80's, it was used as an umbrella term for all bands having punk roots in their music but turning the rage into something more arty, dissonant or adding other musical experiments. Therefore it could include a large panel of things like some new-wave bands, cold wave, early industrial rock, emerging batcave, death rock and gothic rock... But as things got more precise with time, a lot of those subgenre got a name of their own. Post-punk started to be used as a subgenre name too and not only as an umbrella term. As such, it became limited to the punkier bands that used those weird experiments, like early Siouxsie and the Banshees or Joy Division. While those departing from the punk roots would be called gothic rock. This is at least how the gothic community tend to see it. Finally, there was this "post-punk" revival in the 2000's, but most of what I've heard of this sounds more pop/cold-wave, which has added to the confusion. So as often in music, we're left with a double-meaning term, just like it's the case for "heavy metal" or "rock" and many others: one being an umbrella term and one being a specific subgenre of this umbrella term. ... to whom it gave its name... As for post-rock and post-metal, I know some refer to these terms as specific subgenres, but it's my personal point of view that they are misnomers because the meaning of "post" is very broad and then it always should correspond to an umbrella term, like it used to be for post-punk in the first place.

Author:	yungstirjoey666 [ Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
With the whole subject descriptor matter in metal, I guess in most cases it can apply to all subgenres, but certain ones have developed enough of a scene that it becomes more eligible as an official label. For example, anything can be technical, atmospheric, epic, or symphonic, but technical death metal, atmospheric black metal, epic doom metal, and symphonic power metal were more developed compared to the others, and as such are considered official genres. Things like "symphonic thrash metal" or "atmospheric power metal" are not impossible, but they're relatively uncommon. Anyways I have a question regarding the decline of blues influences in metal. Some people say that metal become a fully-fleshed out genre when it lost its blues roots. While somewhat true, I feel like it's a bit more of an overstatement, especially since the doom/stoner/sludge bubble is still super bluesy, and there are tons of pentatonic scales and riffs to be found in bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Pantera. I would not say that metal really lost its "bluesiness," but rather it picked up from more influences from other genres like punk and prog, as well as developed elements of its own. It seems that the whole gradual distance from blues is more or less a phenomenon in rock and popular music in general than something that's specifically with metal, but what are your thoughts on this?

Author:	Auch [ Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Kalimata, your comment about “post-“ is assuming that the scenes that develop around different music genres name or talk about their genres/scenes in the same way and they don’t. Punk and hardcore especially use location to talk about and differentiate “genres” a lot more than metal does.

Author:	Kalimata [ Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Your statement is absolutely right and I'm well aware the different music genres have their own way to classify their inner subgenres and scenes. But that doesn't mean everything must be taken for granted. If we try to think music classification globally and make it something relevant, we have to move beyond the perspective of our inner musical culture, especially when we use terms that are already used by scientists, musicologists or by other genres' community. Most of the subgenres and subscenes created by the medias and taken for granted by fans make no sense musicologically speaking and are terms that are used randomly just to create new trends. That's why we don't need most of those absurd new subgenres because it only contributes to make things confusing. And this is my opinion that music classification should be thought globally and not from your own genre's perspective or from the doxa or medias' imagination. Finally, each genre having its own way of classifying is not necessarily a good thing. Since its inception, the metal community has build a strong cultural identity and is overall made of passionate fans that are cultured and open minded enough to come up with a more or less decent classification of their own genre according to global music classification standards. But this is not the case for all genres of music's community and they shouldn't be taken as an example. "Post-" has an accurate meaning in music classification and shouldn't be used randomly as we do. Linguistics defines "post-" as a concept that follows one another, using some its core elements but in a different frame and I a way that cannot be clearly defined. I don't think this definition is exactly applied for post-metal or post-hardcore.

Author:	rarezuzuh [ Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Auch wrote: Kalimata, your comment about “post-“ is assuming that the scenes that develop around different music genres name or talk about their genres/scenes in the same way and they don’t. Punk and hardcore especially use location to talk about and differentiate “genres” a lot more than metal does. What are some examples of this? I'm not really that knowledgeable about punk and hardcore after the very early stuff, and it seems to me that metal uses regional terms as a shorthand for describing a certain subgenre's sound fairly often, especially in death metal and black metal.

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Author:	deadtome [ Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Kalimata wrote: Your statement is absolutely right and I'm well aware the different music genres have their own way to classify their inner subgenres and scenes. But that doesn't mean everything must be taken for granted. If we try to think music classification globally and make it something relevant, we have to move beyond the perspective of your inner musical culture, especially when we use terms that are already used by scientists, musicologists or by other genres' community. Most of the subgenres and subscenes created by the medias and taken for granted by fans make no sense musicologically speaking and are terms that are used randomly just to create new trends. That's why we don't need most of those absurd new subgenres because it only contributes to make things confusing. And this is my opinion that music classification should be thought globally and not from your own genre's perspective or from the doxa or medias' imagination. Finally, each genre having its own way of classifying is not necessarily a good thing. Since its inception, the metal community has build a strong cultural identity and is overall made of passionate fans that are cultured and open minded enough to come up with a more or less decent classification of their own genre according to global music classification standards. But this is not the case for all genres of music's community and they shouldn't be taken as an example. "Post-" has an accurate meaning in music classification and shouldn't be used randomly as we do. Linguistics defines "post-" as a concept that follows one another, using some its core elements but in a different frame and I a way that cannot be clearly defined. I don't think this definition is exactly applied for post-metal or post-hardcore. Okay! Ca va. Had to jump in here to say that your thought here: the metal community has build a strong cultural identity and is overall made of passionate fans that are cultured and open minded was/is beautiful.

Author:	deadtome [ Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Kalimata wrote: Firstly, post-punk might historically be the first rock subgenre using the "post-" descriptor. In the late 70's and early 80's, it was used as an umbrella term for all bands having punk roots in their music but turning the rage into something more arty, dissonant or adding other musical experiments. Therefore it could include a large panel of things like some new-wave bands, cold wave, early industrial rock, emerging batcave, death rock and gothic rock... But as things got more precise with time, a lot of those subgenre got a name of their own. Post-punk started to be used as a subgenre name too and not only as an umbrella term. As such, it became limited to the punkier bands that used those weird experiments, like early Siouxsie and the Banshees or Joy Division. While those departing from the punk roots would be called gothic rock. This is at least how the gothic community tend to see it. Finally, there was this "post-punk" revival in the 2000's, but most of what I've heard of this sounds more pop/cold-wave, which has added to the confusion. So as often in music, we're left with a double-meaning term, just like it's the case for "heavy metal" or "rock" and many others: one being an umbrella term and one being a specific subgenre of this umbrella term. ... to whom it gave its name... As for post-rock and post-metal, I know some refer to these terms as specific subgenres, but it's my personal point of view that they are misnomers because the meaning of "post" is very broad and then it always should correspond to an umbrella term, like it used to be for post-punk in the first place. Also, now bare with me, (had a gummy a while ago)...but there are some cool things said here too that I had to reread once....maybe twice, again pardon the gummy. I hear, all the time, about 'post' this and 'post' that...and honestly...I never really paid much attention to it, and I guess I still don't, but the way I read it here from you made it a little more interesting. I've always kind of taken the 'post' thing pretty literally and just thought....."Oh, this happened after this".......cool.....do I like it? Also the first time, way back when, when I first hear the term "gaze...." anything I thought it was so fawking funny. I play guitar, and have a pedal with an effect proccessor.....nothing special......but I always kind of scoffed/laughed (mildly) at players with 9 to 17 different pedals. I mean, cool if you have something cookin' and it sounds rad, you're having fun etc., but when does the need for more 'gazing' ever end? I digress.......

Author:	Auch [ Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
rarezuzuh wrote: Auch wrote: Kalimata, your comment about “post-“ is assuming that the scenes that develop around different music genres name or talk about their genres/scenes in the same way and they don’t. Punk and hardcore especially use location to talk about and differentiate “genres” a lot more than metal does. What are some examples of this? I'm not really that knowledgeable about punk and hardcore after the very early stuff, and it seems to me that metal uses regional terms as a shorthand for describing a certain subgenre's sound fairly often, especially in death metal and black metal. Yeah, but when we talk about things like the Gothenburg sound, we’re talking more about a cluster of bands from that area who came up together with a similar sound and that sound is exported and also often given a genre tag. So there are bands that have the Gothenburg sound who are not from Gothenburg or Sweden. I read this explanation a while ago but to my knowledge and if I remember correctly, the way they described it was that membership with a city’s scene was more a driver of investment in a band and more how bands described themselves than genre conventions. So hardcore bands in DC would align more with the DC scene then their specific music styles and hardcore fans in DC really prided themselves on being invested in the DC scene more than one specific style or sub genre. That strong connection to your local happens in metal too obviously but the styles were much more secondary than in metal. I vaguely remember that that is also a reason why terms like thrashcore and fastcore emerged where the music was initially very similar (admittedly, I don’t know if that’s still the case). Some subgenres initially referred to the same style or sub genre but focused around a different scene. I’ll look and see if I can find where I heard all of this. If I’m wrong here, please let anyone feel free to enlighten me.

Author:	lostalbumguru [ Wed Oct 11, 2023 10:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
I really want to make a case for a few albums in the posthardcore area, but haven't had much luck adding the bands. If it's pretty heavy with distorted guitars is it not kind of just metal really?

Author:	Opus [ Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
lostalbumguru wrote: If it's pretty heavy with distorted guitars is it not kind of just metal really? No. No no. No no no no. No!

Author:	Kalimata [ Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
I say it and will say it again : most of the "post-hardcore" I've heard, just like for so-called "metalcore" and "deathcore", has more metal than hardcore elements. Also, I don't really hear what is "post" in this. It just should have another.

Author:	lostalbumguru [ Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Opus wrote: lostalbumguru wrote: If it's pretty heavy with distorted guitars is it not kind of just metal really? No. No no. No no no no. No! Can you expand? I'm currently really getting a lot out a post hardcore album, and I feel it deserves a list and a review, but it's quite close to the perimeter of what could be called metal. I don't want to annoy anyone who runs the site, but the album deserves a little something somewhere.

Author:	duwan [ Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
lostalbumguru wrote: I really want to make a case for a few albums in the posthardcore area, but haven't had much luck adding the bands. If it's pretty heavy with distorted guitars is it not kind of just metal really? What makes an album metal or not, it's the composition (aka songwriting). Deathcore in metallic form have tremolo riffs, palm muting, mid-to-high tempo, drop A or different tunings, while hardcore-rooted deathcore focuses on breakdowns only (I think, I don't listen too much deathcore/metalcore). This is why Suicide Silence wasn't/is not accepted on Metal Archives, because they were rooted in -core music.

Author:	Kalimata [ Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
I'm sorry but breakdowns don't make something hardcore. If you listen to pure original hardcore, breakdowns are most of the time non-existent while they are more common in metal. I hear almost nothing in deathcore that has a musical link with Bad Brains or Black Flag.

Author:	21stCenturySkippyMan [ Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Kalimata wrote: I'm sorry but breakdowns don't make something hardcore. If you listen to pure original hardcore,breakdowns are most of the time non-existent while they are more common in metal. I hear almost nothing in deathcore that has a musical link with Bad Brains or Black Flag. 1982 https://youtu.be/QroYQzS_UAk?t=55 https://youtu.be/gnWKhq8l_5c?t=48 https://youtu.be/bIhX-FYhKKg?t=68 1983 https://youtu.be/_z4HjlTlcEw?t=65 https://youtu.be/UVT5O3KcmfI?si=qSTQ7XyEr1974z1v 1986 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoW8p6G3PY&t=85s https://youtu.be/1nRotGbuwek?t=55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeTYZYFw38c 1989 https://youtu.be/dDpbMND2f0w?t=54 https://youtu.be/O8ayKczKhKo?t=71 https://youtu.be/iumyWB-DQ7Y?t=59 1990 https://youtu.be/DYGTQCnrMr8?t=509 1993 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdd8LaWVedI Modern "heavy" breakdowns originated in the early 80s hardcore scene and developed within that scene (Particularly in NYHC) to become the chugga chugga type riffs you see now in Metalcore/Deathcore by the early 90s. Metal bands didn't start it and the occasional use of these breakdowns by Thrash/Groove bands (Slayer, Carnivore, Pantera, etc.) is because these people were listening to and around lot of the aforementioned hardcore records and bands. So no, chugga chugga riffs and breakdowns aren't metal and don't sound metal outside of surface level characteristics like guitar tone/production. (EDIT: Timestamped the videos)

Author:	duwan [ Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
21stCenturySkippyMan wrote: Modern "heavy" breakdowns originated in the early 80s hardcore scene and developed within that scene (Particularly in NYHC) to become the chugga chugga type riffs you see now in Metalcore/Deathcore by the early 90s. Metal bands didn't start it and the occasional use of these breakdowns by Thrash/Groove bands (Slayer, Carnivore, Pantera, etc.) is because these people were listening to and around lot of the aforementioned hardcore records and bands. So no, chugga chugga riffs and breakdowns aren't metal and don't sound metal outside of surface level characteristics like guitar tone/production. Well, breakdowns are metal depending on its rhythm and songwriting, for example, the breakdown for this song by Carcass, which are goregrind (aka gore metal, for the Exhumed nerds). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6zOG_CrwnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oVW8gcse4g (Laid to Rest) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDATU5_jeC0 (Domination) These two bands on these two tracks are well-known and labeled by most of metalheads as metal, both being groove metal.

Author:	duwan [ Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Metal breakdowns and -core breakdowns are different, while breakdowns on hardcore are repetitive, deep, the metal breakdowns uses melodies, scales, high and mid tempos, variations, and power chords.

Author:	Auch [ Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
If you're trying to draw attention to specific sections of songs to make an argument, it's helpful to put time stamps please.

Author:	21stCenturySkippyMan [ Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
duwan wrote: 21stCenturySkippyMan wrote: Modern "heavy" breakdowns originated in the early 80s hardcore scene and developed within that scene (Particularly in NYHC) to become the chugga chugga type riffs you see now in Metalcore/Deathcore by the early 90s. Metal bands didn't start it and the occasional use of these breakdowns by Thrash/Groove bands (Slayer, Carnivore, Pantera, etc.) is because these people were listening to and around lot of the aforementioned hardcore records and bands. So no, chugga chugga riffs and breakdowns aren't metal and don't sound metal outside of surface level characteristics like guitar tone/production. Well, breakdowns are metal depending on its rhythm and songwriting, for example, the breakdown for this song by Carcass, which are goregrind (aka gore metal, for the Exhumed nerds). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6zOG_CrwnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oVW8gcse4g (Laid to Rest) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDATU5_jeC0 (Domination) These two bands on these two tracks are well-known and labeled by most of metalheads as metal, both being groove metal. Well yeah, in these cases the overall songs are metal, so the brief chugga chugga part is just a section of the song. I'm not saying everything with a breakdown is automatically non-metal lol. I was just demonstrating via historical musical development why (modern) breakdowns and chug riffs aren't intrinsically metal, and why core bands where chug riffs are all or most of their material shouldn't be regarded as such. Auch wrote: If you're trying to draw attention to specific sections of songs to make an argument, it's helpful to put time stamps please. Edited with timestamps.

Author:	Auch [ Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Thanks!

Author:	duwan [ Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
21stCenturySkippyMan wrote: Well yeah, in these cases the overall songs are metal, so the brief chugga chugga part is just a section of the song. I'm not saying everything with a breakdown is automatically non-metal lol. I was just demonstrating via historical musical development why (modern) breakdowns and chug riffs aren't intrinsically metal, and why core bands where chug riffs are all or most of their material shouldn't be regarded as such. Now I understand, sorry for the misunderstanding

Author:	Kalimata [ Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
...and breakdowns originated in early metal, long before they were used in early hardcore. Anyway, I've always thought that the musical separation between punk as a genre of its own and metal was artificial and was only made to distinguish the cultural context of both genres. If you take a closer look to it, punk rock is just simplier and more straightforward hard rock, early hardcore is a bit more metallized and modern hardcore sounds mostly metal with early hardcore gimmicks. Finally, while I still can hear where Black Sabbath and death metal or djent belong to the same genre, there's almost no musical link between, let's say The Ramones, and modern hardcore. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying hardcore punk is not a thing. I'm just saying its separation from metal is arguable. The fact that it's sometimes so difficult to determine what is hardcore and metal seems to prove this point.

Author:	TheReal_FatPug [ Fri Dec 08, 2023 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
what the fuck is brown metal

Author:	Red_Death [ Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
TheReal_FatPug wrote: what the fuck is brown metal It's nothing at all.

Author:	Kalimata [ Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
TheReal_FatPug wrote: what the fuck is brown metal This is shit.

Author:	OCD means Death [ Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Correct me if I'm wrong, I wonder if Raw Black Metal is a legit subgenre, why "Brutal Thrash Metal" isn't? Is there anything RBM different from regular black metal? I read this thread about RBM. It is roughly a kind of black metal with extremely "poor" production. Black Cilice is very raw, I think no one would disagree. But Vlad Tepes or Ulver's 3rd album, some people call them Raw Black Metal, some people don't. Same as Brutal Thrash Metal, Morbid Saint and Demolition Hammer are often considered. Likewise, there are some bands some people may think are brutal enough such as early Kreator. I think these two subgenres are both subjective. Again if I'm wrong pls correct me.

Author:	Kalimata [ Sun Dec 24, 2023 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
They are descriptors, not subgenres. Black metal is generally raw but raw black metal is rawer than standard black metal. Thrash is brutal but brutal thrash is more brutal than standard thrash. Easy isn't it?

Author:	ncroker [ Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Is post metal considered to be a type of progressive metal? By post metal, I am referring to bands like Deftones, Isis, Cult of Luna or Agalloch. Do they count as prog metal or is post metal just a separate thing?

Author:	tomcat_ha [ Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
TheReal_FatPug wrote: what the fuck is brown metal Lugubrum from Belgium only ncroker wrote: Is post metal considered to be a type of progressive metal? By post metal, I am referring to bands like Deftones, Isis, Cult of Luna or Agalloch. Do they count as prog metal or is post metal just a separate thing? Aside from Deftones not being an actual example, post metal is separate from prog metal. Post metal can best be explained as metal with more of an focus on texture and atmosphere. Basically like what post-rock is for rock music. While there are ties with post-hardcore, the "post" in post-metal does not stand for the same kind of thing. The first post-metal bands arose in the sludge metal scene with bands like Neurosis and Isis. Later on we also started getting post-black metal which was kind of a similar thing but applied to (atmospheric) black metal. Pioneers of post-bm are Drudkh, Weakling, Altar of Plagues, Alcest and Burzum. There are some bands in other genres who can be called post-metally like Ulcerate for death metal but its not as much of a thing.

Author:	Ali Gothika [ Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
I have been into trap metal for about one year now---Is it really considered metal since there is a little rap mixed in from time to time??? Kim Dracula is my favorite trap metal artists...

Author:	darthlazy [ Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Ali Gothika wrote: I have been into trap metal for about one year now---Is it really considered metal since there is a little rap mixed in from time to time??? Kim Dracula is my favorite trap metal artists... Nope, not even close to metal. This site is your friend for such a question. You type in your band query, if they do not appear, then you have your answer. Cheers!

Author:	tomcat_ha [ Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Ali Gothika wrote: I have been into trap metal for about one year now---Is it really considered metal since there is a little rap mixed in from time to time??? Kim Dracula is my favorite trap metal artists... trap metal at times samples metal riffs or just takes production/sonic queues from metal but never really is metal riff based music

Author:	Ali Gothika [ Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Thanks for the info. guys!!! Is most helpful...

Author:	megapisces89 [ Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [Stupid] genre question megathread (is x a real genre?)
Ali Gothika wrote: I have been into trap metal for about one year now---Is it really considered metal since there is a little rap mixed in from time to time??? Kim Dracula is my favorite trap metal artists... I didn't know that trap metal existed till now. Another genre to explore I guess