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GVOLTT
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:33 pm
Posts: 478
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:33 pm 
 

So, a couple of days ago, I submitted the Greenlandic band Arctic Spirits, and they got accepted today. However, since I noticed the other band from Greenland listed here, Siissisoq, was listed under Denmark (I know they were listed under Greenland before...), I submitted Arctic Spirits under Denmark as well. I see that Arctic Spirits was changed to Greenland now; should Siissisoq's country be changed backed to Greenland, or should Arctic Spirits' country be changed backed to Denmark? I mean, Greenland appears to be an autonomous country, but Denmark handles the foreign affairs, security, and financial policy of Greenland.
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DieAfvallig
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 220
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:03 pm 
 

The Faroe Islands are in a similar position as Greenland, having a large degree of autonomy but technically part of denmark. They are also listed separately. What should be listed as a country and what shouldn't must be pretty tricky for the mods, but if the faroe islands count, so too should greenland. If both bands are from greenland, i think it should be indicated.

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kimiwind
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
Posts: 482
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:03 pm 
 

I think they should stay under Denmark country and in (city/state) must fill Greenland ! i was surprised when i saw there band's profile was changed to Greenland !!
And then Siissisoq http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=16766 still under Denmark's name but thats the right thing and make a sence as well , Denmark logically maintain Greenland from up to down and even Greenlandics are recognised as Danish citizens as well despite there Greenlandic origins . So in this case obviously Greenland can be nominated as a state from denmark just far away ..
Another factor , Greenland has barely metal bands , and if there is some are always moving to denmark , how much greenlandic bands can reach ? now 2 bands in a country belongs totaly to Denmark .
I hope Arctic Spirits will be back under Denmark country .
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DieAfvallig
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:58 am
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Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:19 pm 
 

You could consider greenland a 'state' of denmark, but then guam and puerto rico should be listed as usa states- they are under the dominion of the usa as unincorporated territories?

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kimiwind
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
Posts: 482
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:41 pm 
 

DieAfvallig wrote:
You could consider greenland a 'state' of denmark, but then guam and puerto rico should be listed as usa states- they are under the dominion of the usa as unincorporated territories?

Its totaly different situation !! based on my infos about Greenland i said my opinion , but i cant say much things about Puerto rico relation with usa or whatever , i dont have no idea !! but i know one thing that Puerto rico are totaly different culture from the USA !! in all aspects !! and i think they talk spanish often !! i can say Puerto rico was colonised by USA but then its different from what we talk here , see what i mean .
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Voice_of_Reason
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 665
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:10 pm 
 

kimiwind wrote:
DieAfvallig wrote:
You could consider greenland a 'state' of denmark, but then guam and puerto rico should be listed as usa states- they are under the dominion of the usa as unincorporated territories?

Its totaly different situation !! based on my infos about Greenland i said my opinion , but i cant say much things about Puerto rico relation with usa or whatever , i dont have no idea !! but i know one thing that Puerto rico are totaly different culture from the USA !! in all aspects !! and i think they talk spanish often !! i can say Puerto rico was colonised by USA but then its different from what we talk here , see what i mean .


Everyone speaking Spanish doesn't mean you aren't in the USA.
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kimiwind
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
Posts: 482
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:47 pm 
 

Voice_of_Reason wrote:
Everyone speaking Spanish doesn't mean you aren't in the USA.

You cant get the point !! in Greenland people talk greenlandic too by the way , and so they speak danish as well !! in case of porto rico people there does speak spanish and english but to say its an only usa colonised country , do people there vote for usa president elections ? do they have members in USA parlement ? no ...
And so Greenland does have that !! and for more infos ,Greenland is related to european comunity by Denmark, Greenland is part of denmark kingdom , its just geographically far from it , no more or less .
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gojko88
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:30 am
Posts: 448
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:15 pm 
 

I think it's absolutely worth mentioning such a distinct fact as a band coming from Greenland. Same applies for Greenland as for the Faroes. The fact that Denmark still has its colonial policy doesn't change the fact that those territories are de facto independent.

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Nyaricus
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1241
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:39 am 
 

Well, are they independent like Canada is in independent from Great Britain, or are their ties still closer?

Because really, you could argue that Canada is still a part of England, which could lead to the deletion of Canada from the Archives under your logic, quite possibly. (Not trying to be snarky here at all, but just using an example I know as a Canadian).
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DieAfvallig
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 220
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:59 am 
 

kimiwind wrote:
i can say Puerto rico was colonised by USA but then its different from what we talk here , see what i mean .
Im sure you will able to find many differences in relation to degree of autonomy, but the fact remains neither are sovereign states while all others (with possible exception of Taiwan) listed under country, are. I notice you are silent on the issue of the faroe islands, who must occupy an identical position to greenland. The issue of culture is irrelevant.

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MaDTransilvanian
Caravan Beyond Redemption

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 3862
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:33 pm 
 

Nyaricus wrote:
Well, are they independent like Canada is in independent from Great Britain, or are their ties still closer?

Because really, you could argue that Canada is still a part of England, which could lead to the deletion of Canada from the Archives under your logic, quite possibly. (Not trying to be snarky here at all, but just using an example I know as a Canadian).


I'd say that the Greenland-Denmark debate is closer to the constituent countries of the United Kingdom versus the UK itself. Greenland is a country which is a part of the kingdom of Denmark, has considerable regional autonomy, but isn't an independent state according to international law.

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Evenfiel
Heavy Metal Hunter

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
Posts: 6144
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:58 pm 
 

I've actually tried to get rid of Greenland from the country list, but since it's still there you can use it.

If it was up to me, I would use the list of UN members plus Taiwan and Palestine territories.

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Voice_of_Reason
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 665
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:32 am 
 

kimiwind wrote:
Voice_of_Reason wrote:
Everyone speaking Spanish doesn't mean you aren't in the USA.

You cant get the point !! in Greenland people talk greenlandic too by the way , and so they speak danish as well !! in case of porto rico people there does speak spanish and english but to say its an only usa colonised country , do people there vote for usa president elections ? do they have members in USA parlement ? no ...
And so Greenland does have that !! and for more infos ,Greenland is related to european comunity by Denmark, Greenland is part of denmark kingdom , its just geographically far from it , no more or less .


I wasn't actually saying anything about Greenland, I was just pointing out that there are lots of places in the US where Spanish is spoken more or less exclusively.
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DieAfvallig
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:58 am
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Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:23 am 
 

Evenfiel, that sounds good- except some full-fledged sovereign nations are not past of the UN. (nauru, tuvalu were not members a few years back, switzerland joined only relatively recently) This is academic, seeing as the total population of the two island states is less than the student population at the local uni but shows even this option is as simple as it seems. Perhaps a better idea would be to use the Olympics or Fifa member lists which include some dependent, semi- autonomous territories? For what its worth, i would find it more helpful to have the constituent states of the UK indicated separately.

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2222
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:36 am 
 

DieAfvallig wrote:
i would find it more helpful to have the constituent states of the UK indicated separately.

Evenfiel and the site owners will disagree with you on this, I personally agree that on a principal level the whole point of the country thingy should be to be helpful and give you a good indication where the band is from. It seems pointless to me to say that a band living on New Caledonia is from France/a French band. It just seems wrong when it's on the other side of the planet. I'm fine with Alaska and Hawaii being listed as United States since they can geographically be seen as a part of the United States and are politically 100% integrated into the country and part thereof, to the point that the U.S. President is from Hawaii, simply seperated by a bit, but Greenland being a part of Denmark? Denmark is in Scandinavia and it's part of central Europe, not bordering Canada. And Greenland has home rule, has its own official language (besides Danish) that the majority of the population speaks, and as far as I know they don't take part in Danish elections. The comparison of the Kingdom of Denmark to the United Kingdom is absurd because in the UK monarchy is officially integrated into the political system (if only symbolically), if I recall correctly new laws have to be approved by the queen or something. The Kingdom of Denmark - unless I'm terribly wrong - has no official part in Danish politics or the Danish parliamentary system. Anyway, to say Siissisog is a Danish band just seems wrong on many levels. The relation between Denmark seems more akin to the Commonwealth of Nations, or at the very least the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
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DieAfvallig
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 220
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:23 am 
 

EntilZha, you misunderstood my post. The bit about the UK was an aside and not a comparison to Denmark. You do have a point about geographical separation. For the sake of consistency, whatever applies to Greenland should also apply to the Faroe Islands.

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:50 am 
 

DieAfvallig wrote:
EntilZha, you misunderstood my post. The bit about the UK was an aside and not a comparison to Denmark. You do have a point about geographical separation. For the sake of consistency, whatever applies to Greenland should also apply to the Faroe Islands.

I didn't misunderstand it, I just didn't refer to it directly, or rather, expanded on a small portion of it out of context. I know you meant it seperately, I was mostly referring to the "i would find it more helpful"-bit in your post.
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Evenfiel
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
Posts: 6144
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:33 pm 
 

DieAfvallig wrote:
Perhaps a better idea would be to use the Olympics or Fifa member lists which include some dependent, semi- autonomous territories? For what its worth, i would find it more helpful to have the constituent states of the UK indicated separately.

Actually, I wouldn't mind using the FIFA or IOF member lists. If we used the FIFA list - with 208 members - then we would need to add Taiwan. Just for the record, the IOF list has 205 members and lists Great Britain as a member, not the constituent states.

Btw, the current list was just grabbed from some internet country list back in 2002 and, at the time, probably followed the CIA World Factbook list. Its only modification was the addition of Montenegro.

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Torquia
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:26 am
Posts: 20
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:32 pm 
 

Actually is a more complicated issue. There are some states that have proclaimed their sovereignty in the last years, but have no been recognized as such by most of the international community. It´s the case of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, both supported by Russia (and also recognized by countries as Nicaragua and Venezuela), while United States is against their autonomy. Kosovo is the opposite example, recognized by U.S. and not by Russia (along with a lot of other countries). The Balcanic and Caucasian regions are subject to this kind of situation, where if new self proclaimed states arise, even if they have no representation in United Nations, they surely will be supported by other countries, including one of the two big mentioned.

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2222
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:58 am 
 

There are only seven bands listed as being from Georgia, all of them from the capital Tbilisi. Abkhazia and South Ossetia are a non-issue.
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HailChaos
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 152
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:25 pm 
 

kimiwind wrote:
do they have members in USA parlement ?


We don't have a "parlement", we have a Congress, which is better.

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Evenfiel
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
Posts: 6144
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:09 pm 
 

For those interested on the question "What is a country?", here is a The Economist article which might help some of you to understand the problem:
http://www.economist.com/world/internat ... d=15868439

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Blood Music
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 245
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:14 am 
 

I have been to Greenland and the Faroe Islands. They are both countries of their own. And if you told a band from Greenland they were from Denmark, they would go grab a shotgun from the house.

This is very similar to a distinction between Scotland being a separate country from Britain or not.

Leave them as separate countries.
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Morrigan
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Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:40 pm 
 

And you resurrected a two-year old thread to post your insignificant opinion on the long-resolved matter? :rolleyes:
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