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deicidefan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 476
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:45 pm 
 

I've been hearing the word RAC and RABM being thrown around more and more recently with alot of confusion on my end.

Is Rac and RABM the same thing ? Im aware that RABM is Red (communism?) and anarchist black metal. I am assuming RAC is red anarchist communist music, please correct me if im wrong.

I have also heard cascadian bm bands being described as rabm like WitTR, Skagos, fell voices, ect. To me the focus of most of these bands is more nature themed and has no real position on government or lack there of.

Also it feels like alot of these RABM bands get tied into NSBM, I dont really understand why, are they considered "opposites" or the NS incorporates more racial issues into their socialist subject matter. Do these two styles go somewhat hand-in-hand?

I am not trying to start a flame war on NS or RA being right or wrong or what have you, just genuinely curious about these topics.
Also to keep this topic from getting locked immediately when it inevitably goes sour, maybe suggest a band and write a quick description (beliefs, politics, genre, whatever). Thanks in advance.

-Deicidefan
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Abominatrix
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:59 pm 
 

I have no idea what RABM is, but RAC is usually more along the lines of punk than metal, although it seems that plenty of bands have a hefty metal influence. Most of these bands have atrocious vocals, which is a peculiar pattern....almost every RAC band I've heard recently includes a singer who ironically makes me imagine some primitive hairy sub-man spewing gibberish from a malformed mouth...

As others will no doubt tell you, the abbreviation here stands for Rock Against Communism. Most of the bands are racist to some degree or another.

Bound for Glory are a damn fine band though. They could be a well-known thrash outfit were it not for their fairly obvious politics. They even play their instruments really well. They're on this site, but there's a notable lack of reviews. I'd take this band over just about any self-professed NSBM...

Skrewdriver are a band I also enjoy. I guess they started "the whole thing". They began as an 1970s punk band and progressed to writing powerfully sentimental anthems that should appeal to a lot of rock 'n' roll fans.

A lot of these bands clearly treat music as a second-class thing. I wouldn't normally make broad, sweeping statements about an entire stratum of music, but the clue's even in the name...politics first, music second, or third (after fighting and beer drinking, I suppose?) So many of the famous examples of the scene seem as though they're actually trying to sound horrible. Perhaps they're afraid that if they became too good at their craft they might get noticed by more people and be harangued, abused and beaten into nonexistence? I really don't know.

This is a lot more than I initially wanted to say. :lol:
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299796kms
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:55 pm 
 

Red is the night, Capitalism we fight
Power amps set to explode
Energy screams, magic and dreams
Marx records the first note.
We chime the bell, chaos and hell
Metal for maniacs pure.
Fast melting steel, fortune on wheels
Brain hemorrhage is the cure
For RED METAL
lay down your soul to the worker's rock `n' roll

Freaking so wild, nobody's mild
Giving it all that you've got.
Socialism is so right, metal tonight
Faster than over the top.
Open the door, enter communism's core
Red is the code for tonight
Atomic force, feel no remorse
Crank up the amps now it's night
RED METAL
lay down your soul to the worker's rock `n' roll
metal ten fold through the deadly black hole
riding hells stallions bareback and free
faking our chances with raw energy

Come ride the night with us
Rock hard and fight
United my legions we stand
Freak hard and wild for us
Give up your souls
Live for the guest Marx's band

Against the odds, red metal gods
Fight to achieve our goal
Casting a revolution, leather and hell
Red metal gods rock `n' roll
Building up steam, nuclear screams
War-heads are ready to fight
Red leather hounds, faster than sound
Metal our purpose in life.
RED METAL
lay down your soul to the proletariat's rock `n' roll
Red metal
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MortalScum
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:12 pm 
 

RABM means Red/Anarchist Black metal, its a relatively new term but it seems mostly like a label for BM bands that express left wing politics (ie. Communism, Anarchism, etc).
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KingMaker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:13 pm 
 

299796kms wrote:
Red is the night, Capitalism we fight
Power amps set to explode
Energy screams, magic and dreams
Marx records the first note.
We chime the bell, chaos and hell
Metal for maniacs pure.
Fast melting steel, fortune on wheels
Brain hemorrhage is the cure
For RED METAL
lay down your soul to the worker's rock `n' roll

Freaking so wild, nobody's mild
Giving it all that you've got.
Socialism is so right, metal tonight
Faster than over the top.
Open the door, enter communism's core
Red is the code for tonight
Atomic force, feel no remorse
Crank up the amps now it's night
RED METAL
lay down your soul to the worker's rock `n' roll
metal ten fold through the deadly black hole
riding hells stallions bareback and free
faking our chances with raw energy

Come ride the night with us
Rock hard and fight
United my legions we stand
Freak hard and wild for us
Give up your souls
Live for the guest Marx's band

Against the odds, red metal gods
Fight to achieve our goal
Casting a revolution, leather and hell
Red metal gods rock `n' roll
Building up steam, nuclear screams
War-heads are ready to fight
Red leather hounds, faster than sound
Metal our purpose in life.
RED METAL
lay down your soul to the proletariat's rock `n' roll
Red metal



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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:19 pm 
 

Abom pretty much nailed it. RAC is definitely not Red/Anarchist music. :lol:

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Umbersun
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:07 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:43 pm 
 

299796kms wrote:
(Red Metal lyrics)

I lol'd at the new commie BM anthem.
Marx records the first note. :lol:

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PengPeng
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:55 am
Posts: 297
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:45 pm 
 

deicidefan wrote:
I am assuming RAC is red anarchist communist music, please correct me if im wrong.


To cut it short: NO!

RAC is basically the opposite and means "Rock Against Communism"

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KingMaker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:00 pm 
 

Okkultokrati is pretty awesome. For anyone who cares.
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BeholdtheNicktopus
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:13 pm 
 

Don't get National Socialism (Nazism), which is a far-right fascist movement, mixed up with socialism, which is a leftist movement. Nazism is not socialism in that sense, and indeed Nazis considered the SPD (German Socialist Party) their greatest enemies, and vice versa. Hence, why the representative metal genres are "opposites".

For example, Jarost Marksa is a RABM band.
Fanisk is an NSBM band.
RAC is related to NSBM ideologically.
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Cendelence
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:21 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:16 pm 
 

I like RABM quite a lot, but the only band I really know is Jarost Marksa.

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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:09 pm 
 

BeholdtheNicktopus wrote:
Fanisk is an NSBM band.


The only thing that puts them anywhere near the genre is the swastika plastered on the cover of Noontide. If you read the lyrics, there's no fascist ideals present at all.
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BeholdtheNicktopus
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:56 pm 
 

The lyrics seem to be some pagan/mythological themes, and while they are not overtly NS, they fit neatly into that ideology (with the imagery on the album covers taken into account). I just remembered Fanisk because I liked their music.

I suppose I stand corrected.
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iamntbatman
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:53 pm 
 

Wilytank wrote:
The only thing that puts them anywhere near the genre is the swastika plastered on the cover of Noontide. If you read the lyrics, there's no fascist ideals present at all.


"The first hammer,
Was shaped by the fiery hand.
Held in the white fist,
It carried power. "

I'm pretty sure their lyrics are all NS mysticism type stuff. Their Myspace lists several Nazis and Nazi sympathizers as influences, as well as a bunch of other NSBM bands.
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der_kaiser
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 6:14 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:56 pm 
 

RAC Means...Rock Against Communism! Stands for bands like Screwdriver and so on!

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KingMaker
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:30 am
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:10 am 
 

What are some of these RABM bands?
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KFD
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
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Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:39 am 
 

RABM doesn't exist, it's just a topic title on some internet boards. If some bands actually pretend to play "red and anarchist black metal", it's a pure nonsense, even in the label.
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OneRodeToAsaBay
The Doll With the Hideous Spirit

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:49 pm
Posts: 2087
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:48 am 
 

Here's a prominent blog about this so-called red and anarchist black metal movement. Try not to barf--there is an entry in which they claim Sarcofago are RABM... idiotic reappropriation and rewriting of black metal's musical development.

I have about as much contempt for 'RABM' as I do for tripe like RAC and NSBM. Abominatrix summed it perfectly. Politics before music? Fuck off.

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hippiedrow
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 1720
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:27 am 
 

What nonsense! These terms are utter crap.

NSBM is just a term used to pigeonhole and marginalize bands by those feel scared or threatened by the political opinions that the artists may or may not have.

RABM is a marketing term, used to sell CD's to pseudo-Marxist hipsters. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that capitalism tried to profit off of its purported foe:

Image

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KFD
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Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:31 am 
 

The correct spelling for your signature would be "je fais ce que je veux".
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absurder21
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:27 am 
 

I'm pretty sure the point of Anarchy is that there is no system, hence Communist Anarchy makes no fucking sense. Either this is BS or the people in this genre are EXTREMELY retarded.

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Zero_Nowhere
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:11 pm
Posts: 513
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:14 am 
 

absurder21 wrote:
I'm pretty sure the point of Anarchy is that there is no system, hence Communist Anarchy makes no fucking sense. Either this is BS or the people in this genre are EXTREMELY retarded.


You'd be wrong in your definition of anarchy - its no rulers, not no rules. Anarchists get pissy at the idea of an externally enforced system - they're usually very big on the whole mutualism/syndicalism idea of voluntary organisations whose authority only extends to people who want to be part of them.

Except the anarcho-capitalists, who are a whole different ballgame from a very different philosophical background.

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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1113
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:48 am 
 

BeholdtheNicktopus wrote:
Don't get National Socialism (Nazism), which is a far-right fascist movement, mixed up with socialism, which is a leftist movement. Nazism is not socialism in that sense, and indeed Nazis considered the SPD (German Socialist Party) their greatest enemies, and vice versa. Hence, why the representative metal genres are "opposites".

For example, Jarost Marksa is a RABM band.
Fanisk is an NSBM band.
RAC is related to NSBM ideologically.


Thats a matter of semantics to an extent. You could certainly say that the NSDAP in its "Brown" phase (Rohm) as opposed to its "Black" phase (Himmler) had some extremely socialistic ideas as far as breaking the power of the banks, putting the army in the hands of the S.A, Nationalization of industry, "de-urbanizing" society, a certain "leveling" of society whereby the critereon of social status was race rather than capital, which was more inclusive for a large number of people.

anyway, the only level in which I could support either ethos as far as black metal goes is in a glorification of the hideous crimes and mass suffering. As soon as either side starts on their utopia bullshit, no matter if it be shiny happy blonde maidens singing round the bonfire or a vegan gender-inclusive wonderland its missed the point. Black Metal is the glorification of negativity, hate and death - only the end result, the empty and smouldering battlefield, the pit of burning corpses, the nuclear cloud over Hiroshima, is important. There are many paths to our LORD haha. The idealism behind it is utterly unimportant except insofar as the highest idealism leads to the greatest tragedy.
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the_raytownian
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:52 am 
 

I only knew what RABM meant after reading this thread... and I have to tell you, it annoys the fuck out of me.

I don't consider being a Commie shithead and an Anarchist to be remotely similar, and I hate that so many misguided "anarchists" align themselves with this Liberal idiocy.

I don't see any different between a reactionary pinko liberal shithead and a pigheaded fascist conservative one... NONE AT ALL... And I fail to understand how self-described "Anarchists" don't either.

It makes me want to vomit when I see these people in bed together. It's an affront to what I consider Anarchy to be about entirely. I guess it doesn't matter since they're really just closet Commie liberals who think their violent (and constantly failed) attempts at revolution make them superheroes (instead of egomaniacs)...

Anyway, I apologize for going off on that rant, it just bugs the shit out of me to no end. The meaning of Anarchy is fucking dead because every so-called Anarchist has become another violent oppressor.

I guess the human race is too stupid to achieve anything good without being forced into submission... So maybe those "Anarchists" and Commies (and Fascists) are right? Makes me want to fucking blow my head off to think like that though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0ddOmzQlgY
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:54 am 
 

Either my browser or this usually molasses-paced forum messed something up... Sorry for the double post.
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:03 am 
 

hippiedrow wrote:
Image


This irony is delicious... and refreshing. ;)
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:08 am 
 

Zero_Nowhere wrote:
absurder21 wrote:
I'm pretty sure the point of Anarchy is that there is no system, hence Communist Anarchy makes no fucking sense. Either this is BS or the people in this genre are EXTREMELY retarded.


You'd be wrong in your definition of anarchy - its no rulers, not no rules. Anarchists get pissy at the idea of an externally enforced system - they're usually very big on the whole mutualism/syndicalism idea of voluntary organisations whose authority only extends to people who want to be part of them.


Agreed.

I still think Communism goes against Anarchy entirely.

Communalism and Communism are two different things of course...
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DeathForBlitzkrieg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:09 am 
 

KingMaker wrote:
Okkultokrati is pretty awesome. For anyone who cares.


I saw them last week supporting Kylesa, really nice blend of styles and heavy as fuck.
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halokaust
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:33 am
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:11 am 
 

KingMaker wrote:
Okkultokrati is pretty awesome. For anyone who cares.


They are cool yes, but what do they have to do with this? As far as I know, they don't have any political lyrics.
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Travis_Bickle
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Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:59 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:07 pm 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
BeholdtheNicktopus wrote:
Don't get National Socialism (Nazism), which is a far-right fascist movement, mixed up with socialism, which is a leftist movement. Nazism is not socialism in that sense, and indeed Nazis considered the SPD (German Socialist Party) their greatest enemies, and vice versa. Hence, why the representative metal genres are "opposites".

For example, Jarost Marksa is a RABM band.
Fanisk is an NSBM band.
RAC is related to NSBM ideologically.


Quote:
Thats a matter of semantics to an extent. You could certainly say that the NSDAP in its "Brown" phase (Rohm) as opposed to its "Black" phase (Himmler) had some extremely socialistic ideas as far as breaking the power of the banks, putting the army in the hands of the S.A, Nationalization of industry, "de-urbanizing" society, a certain "leveling" of society whereby the critereon of social status was race rather than capital, which was more inclusive for a large number of people.


To my knowledge just about every band that's labelled NSBM would side and have sympathies with Hitler's Third Reich and focus on lyrical topics such as anti-semitism and racial inequality as opposed to the "socialist" aspects of the early NSDAP, which Hitler himself saw as a threat.

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KingMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:52 pm 
 

hippiedrow wrote:
What nonsense! These terms are utter crap.

NSBM is just a term used to pigeonhole and marginalize bands by those feel scared or threatened by the political opinions that the artists may or may not have.

RABM is a marketing term, used to sell CD's to pseudo-Marxist hipsters. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that capitalism tried to profit off of its purported foe:

Image


So, NSBM bands are ideologically legitimate, the label is just used to scare people who Don't Understand, while RABM is a joke meant to market?

Get out.

halokaust wrote:
KingMaker wrote:
Okkultokrati is pretty awesome. For anyone who cares.


They are cool yes, but what do they have to do with this? As far as I know, they don't have any political lyrics.


They're considered part of the whole RABM thing, because they play a blackened crust punk and are, as people, progressively minded (I guess?).

Also, LOL at some of you and your beliefs about what terms mean what and what is incompatible with what.
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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:55 pm 
 

:ugh: Nutcase Socialist Bullshit Metal, Red Army Bollocks Metal... What's next, Sarah Palin Endorsing Republican Metal?

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DisembowelMe
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:59 am
Posts: 536
Location: Iceland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:09 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
:ugh: Nutcase Socialist Bullshit Metal, Red Army Bollocks Metal... What's next, Sarah Palin Endorsing Republican Metal?


Well, it's not like black metal hasn't been coupled with retarded ideologies before. I can't see how it's any worse than NSBM for instance.

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Tyyrham
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:20 pm 
 

BeholdtheNicktopus wrote:
RAC is related to NSBM ideologically.


Not necesseraly.

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KingMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:30 pm 
 

DisembowelMe wrote:
kingnuuuur wrote:
:ugh: Nutcase Socialist Bullshit Metal, Red Army Bollocks Metal... What's next, Sarah Palin Endorsing Republican Metal?


Well, it's not like black metal hasn't been coupled with retarded ideologies before. I can't see how it's any worse than NSBM for instance.


Its really funny to me to watch a bunch of "individualist" metalheads get more bent out of shape over left wing ideologies than fascism.
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:26 pm 
 

^ No, no... I hate them equally... because they are the exact same thing.
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KingMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:30 pm 
 

^ This applies to my earlier "lol at what some of you think" comment.

And no, before someone asks, I'm not a communist. Because I can think critically.

Anyway, on topic. No one has really named any bands that are a part of this so called movement. Can someone suggest some? Apparently Okkultokrati are only associated with rather than part of the movement, so I'd like to hear some of these bands.

As to RAC, from what I gather most of those bands are South American. Which is not surprising in the least.
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BeholdtheNicktopus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:28 pm 
 

Those who do not understand anarcho-communism should read some Kropotkin. Anarchism (of a leftist variety) and communism really are not so different in goal, though they may differ in strategy. Thus, the communism and anarchism in RABM are not just two random political ideologies, but ideologies that often overlap. Communism is not even necessarily marxism, much less authoritarian Stalinism, as some seem to think...
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Nolan_B
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:15 pm 
 

RABM - college kids with beards and sandals writing about something inoffensive and edgy at the same time.

RAC and NSBM - for the most part, lost kids that miss the point, with some exceptions.

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DeathForBlitzkrieg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:17 pm 
 

KingMaker wrote:
Anyway, on topic. No one has really named any bands that are a part of this so called movement. Can someone suggest some? Apparently Okkultokrati are only associated with rather than part of the movement, so I'd like to hear some of these bands.


I guess Panopticon fit the bill.
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