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Mors_Gloria
See? Marge was right!! ^

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:07 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:29 am 
 

emperor_zola wrote:
Mors_Gloria wrote:
PS: Metalheads are Metalheads and we should have our nation. In for the Metal Nation :metal:


What would be fit as a national anthem / flag?


The National Flag would be a long-haired tattoed guy that is fighting in a pit. The National Emblem would be this -> :metal:
And the National Anthem would be Breaking The Law!
_________________
Panopticon at Flag Burner, Torch Bearer wrote:
Tonight all flags must burn in place of steeples. Autonomy must return to the hands of the people!


http://www.metalfighters.com/

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Vook
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:20 am
Posts: 656
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:42 pm 
 

Mors_Gloria wrote:
I don't believe that emperor_zola wants to conquer all these regions to be sincere.


Of course, I just pulled the most popular Hungarian name, only slightly related to his dreams (bigger Hungary).

emperor_zola wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Personally, I believe that every geographical region should be independent.

That will pretty much never happen...

Sure?


Yes. It's like wishing for a world without war.

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Thrasher86
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 9:45 pm
Posts: 26
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:49 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
Witcher wrote:
Knjaz_Milos wrote:
Noisenoir wrote:
What I found rather ironic is the people of Kosovo celebrate their independance waving american and albanian flags..??..


Shows their real goal: one great Albania, or aka a Mafia-rogue state in the middle of Europe.
Something in the interest of the US: they can have a military base there, and the Albanians continue to destabilize Europe with their drugs/arms/people-trafficking and the development of a extremist Muslim-state inside Europe.

Hence the US flags...

I am wondering if the Western world would also applaud an independent Hawaii, Scotland, Kurdistan or Basque Country, to only name a few??

Not to speak about the fact, that the Serbians in Northern Kosovo will never recognize the Albanian central government. You have other potential Palestina there.

It would be interesting to watch, if all the Mexicans living in California would crete and uprising to show their true heritage and to demand renewed sepearation from the U.S.A. and union with Mexico for historical reasons.

If the United States committed war crimes and ethnic cleansing of those Mexicans, and say the United States was a weak and unpopular power, than it's more than likely that the major powers in the world would be more willing to allow a separation. The reality with that example is that the United States is a strong sovereign power, and if there would be war crimes they would be hidden, masked to save face, or condemned with little power to do anything about it. The American people may lose faith in their government, but the state wouldn't fail.

In many way, it's a number of conditions which separate Kosovo's separation from those of other secessionist movements. Firstly, Yugoslavia had been an unpopular and weak state, compared to the rest of the world. Secessionist movements had already occurred. Throughout Yugoslavia there had been violence, and - despite a decent army - the government chose policies that were not well received by the rest of the world.

Secondly, because of how close Yugoslavia is to the rest of Europe, and of historical precedent in previous wars, any violence in Yugoslavia is a concern to the rest of Europe - especially given the situation after the fall of the Soviet Union. NATO would've been called in regardless. If this had been Africa, few governments would do anything about it. If this had been in the heart of Western Europe, North America or South America, the secessionist movement would've been squashed or universally condemned. More than likely, any violence would be considered terrorism, and the movements would be more inclined to be peaceful. The Balkans, being on the borderline of Europe, did not have that option. There were concerns that violence would spread outwards towards its neighboring weak states and into the rest of Europe.

Lastly, and most importantly, Yugoslavia used violence, war crimes and to a degree ethnic cleansing to try to solve the problem. Serbia now must contend with the blemish of such acts. Given the prior conditions, it's not tolerated. It's this which outweighs all historical or religious importance that Kosovo may have for Serbia. It's also what tends to separate most other secessionist movements (although, in strong states with high popularity there are cases of this, but they're usually downplayed for the sake of stability). It's for this reason, regardless if Russia pouts and other states are concerned, that an independent Kosovo is a reality. The West could not tolerate allowing Kosovo back into Serbia, especially given the majority (92%) do not want that. Nor would it necessarily be desired to have Kosovo and Albania 'formally' combine. Doing so would suggest the West wants to (publicly?) direct the sovereignty of other states.

As for the 4% of leftover Serbs. Despite many of them being poor and old, what will more likely happen is that North Kosovo will gain some autonomy within the state of Kosovo. The other majority enclave of Serbs, Štrpce, would more than likely be overrun by Albanians in little time.


You obviously don't know much about Yugoslavian history and especially about its position during the Cold War when it was not aligned with the Eastern Powers. Your arguement is pretty weak unless it concerns post 1990 Yugoslavia, which is Serbia and not real Yugoslavia...
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Noktorn wrote:
One time I was listening to Gorgoroth and then the police beat me for being black, so I guess that sort of counts.

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Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:09 am 
 

The ethnic Albanians were correct to do so on the grounds of ethnic self-determination. I would like to see this happen many more times throughout the world (and especially the US).

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6077
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:49 am 
 

einvolk wrote:
The ethnic Albanians were correct to do so on the grounds of ethnic self-determination. I would like to see this happen many more times throughout the world (and especially the US).


Albanians have already their own ethnical national state - Albania. The principle of self-determination was always applied in the past to exclude minorities living in an already established state with different majority nations. In the past, those were mainly African states, where already some tribal areas of control, tribal chiefs rule or kingdoms existed, before they were colonized by Europeans. And it was always by the will of ethnically homegenous or closely related inhabitants living on this area.
You would like to see the Mexican uprising in California??

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Mors_Gloria
See? Marge was right!! ^

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:07 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:12 am 
 

Witcher wrote:
einvolk wrote:
The ethnic Albanians were correct to do so on the grounds of ethnic self-determination. I would like to see this happen many more times throughout the world (and especially the US).


Albanians have already their own ethnical national state - Albania. The principle of self-determination was always applied in the past to exclude minorities living in an already established state with different majority nations. In the past, those were mainly African states, where already some tribal areas of control, tribal chiefs rule or kingdoms existed, before they were colonized by Europeans. And it was always by the will of ethnically homegenous or closely related inhabitants living on this area.
You would like to see the Mexican uprising in California??


He'd like to see an independent Texas basically.
_________________
Panopticon at Flag Burner, Torch Bearer wrote:
Tonight all flags must burn in place of steeples. Autonomy must return to the hands of the people!


http://www.metalfighters.com/

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Noisenoir
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:24 pm 
 

I'm afraid the Balkans will go through much turmoil in the days to come and the N.A.T.O. expansion the U.S. promotes to include Albania, Kosovo and F.Y.R.O.M. will have serious impact to the region's stability and neighboring relations.

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cinedracusio
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 7:59 am
Posts: 493
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:29 am 
 

emperor_zola wrote:
Sensitive theme, not pick on anyone, these are facts. Neither Slovakia, neither Romania (neither the rest of the winners) can't accept the fact, that they got the hungarians with those lands as well, and anyhow hard those hungarophobe governments are trying to eliminate them, and rewrite the history, it won't works.

Man, first of all, you won't get your territories back unless my country bears a civil war. Then, your country won't disappear if you don't get those territories back. Third, your minorities have no problem. They have the opportunity to learn Hungarian as well, unlike the Romanian minority who was forced during Austro-Hungarian days to learn only Hungarian, tell their prayers in Hungarian and so on.
Eh, guess I'll just stick to what mors_gloria said. The best for us would be that we get along. I'm not guilty for what governments decide, and neither are you, so it gets useless to argue over hundreds of years.

Regarding Kosovo, I'm wondering what this Medvedev guy will have to say about Kosovo. Will he be diriged by Putin and maybe try to heat things up even more?
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invoked wrote:
Remember kids, retardation exists across all races, nationalities, and universities!

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Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:06 pm 
 

Witcher wrote:
You would like to see the Mexican uprising in California??
very much so!
Viva Aztlan! (Im not being sarcastic, I believe nations should be formed around ethnicity in order to ensure the needs are being best met)

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 407
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:00 pm 
 

einvolk wrote:
Witcher wrote:
You would like to see the Mexican uprising in California??
very much so!
Viva Aztlan! (Im not being sarcastic, I believe nations should be formed around ethnicity in order to ensure the needs are being best met)


A second Mexican-American war would be entertaining to say the least.


On a side note three more days till the date the Alamo fell.
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Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
I'd be more than welcome to take on the jihadists. If they think they are the only ones who know how to make home made bombs and use guns... well they know nothing about redneck America.

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NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
Posts: 1390
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:11 pm 
 

This provided food for thought, for myself at least

http://www.corrupt.org/articles/politic ... _po_kosovo
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The solitary one waits for grace...

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SilenceIsConsent
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:46 pm
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:04 pm 
 

Knjaz_Milos wrote:
Noisenoir wrote:
What I found rather ironic is the people of Kosovo celebrate their independance waving american and albanian flags..??..


Shows their real goal: one great Albania, or aka a Mafia-rogue state in the middle of Europe.
Something in the interest of the US: they can have a military base there, and the Albanians continue to destabilize Europe with their drugs/arms/people-trafficking and the development of a extremist Muslim-state inside Europe.

Hence the US flags...

I am wondering if the Western world would also applaud an independent Hawaii, Scotland, Kurdistan or Basque Country, to only name a few??


Well we will just have to see what will happen. Either what you said will happen or this will turn out to be something else. Who knows, and do not say you do because you cannot see into the future.

Um, Hawaii has been a United State since the presidency of Dwight David Eisenhower. Why would we let it go? A more reasonable claim would be "why not let Vermont be independent?" because they are a socialist republic and want nothing to do with the United States. Scotland, well the Crown must look differently I guess.

People have been campaigning both peacefully and violently for a Basque Country for probably centuries. It's not happening any time soon.

Kurdistan should happen though. It's the only stable part of Iraq and Iran doesn't give a shit about them so they should just let them be. Though you cannot blame those Turks for fighting back, considering the PKK routinely go out of their way to massacre thousands of innocent Turks yearly.

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7h1m0
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:00 pm
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:38 pm 
 

A little off topic but it's just a quick question... I was wondering if there were any other Albanians on this forum other than me XD

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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2649
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:50 pm 
 

Thrasher86 wrote:
You obviously don't know much about Yugoslavian history and especially about its position during the Cold War when it was not aligned with the Eastern Powers. Your arguement is pretty weak unless it concerns post 1990 Yugoslavia, which is Serbia and not real Yugoslavia...

The Yugoslavia I'm referring to is, up to recently, modern Yugoslavia. It is inevitably that Yugoslavia - the one that existed from the 80s onwards - which matters in this issue more than any historical variants. This is the variant in which many 'western' perceptions have been formed around.

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Mors_Gloria
See? Marge was right!! ^

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:07 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:23 pm 
 

7h1m0 wrote:
A little off topic but it's just a quick question... I was wondering if there were any other Albanians on this forum other than me XD


Probably but I'd like to ask you something.

How is the Albanian Black Metal scene?

EDIT: Witcher, you're right. I forgot we were on The Symposium. Sorry. I'll just send a PM.
_________________
Panopticon at Flag Burner, Torch Bearer wrote:
Tonight all flags must burn in place of steeples. Autonomy must return to the hands of the people!


http://www.metalfighters.com/


Last edited by Mors_Gloria on Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6077
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:23 pm 
 

Mors_Gloria wrote:
7h1m0 wrote:
A little off topic but it's just a quick question... I was wondering if there were any other Albanians on this forum other than me XD


Probably but I'd like to ask you something.

How is the Albanian Black Metal scene?



http://www.metal-archives.com/board/vie ... hp?t=34860

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Noisenoir
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:12 am 
 

I would also like to hear some views on the "Macedonian" issue and I think is relevant to this thread, no need to start a new one. Perhaps this thread should be renamed "The Balkans".

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