Now that Iommi, Butler, Dio, and Appice are releasing a live album explicitly as "Heaven & Hell" and not "Black Sabbath," don't you think it's time we finally created a new page for H&H? Iommi has said that Black Sabbath proper is on hold and has stated multiple times that this is a side project. I consider it to be just another incarnation of Sabbath as much as the next guy, but in official terms Sabbath is on hold and H&H is releasing a live album and DVD and is active.

If I get the ok I'll make a seperate H&H page and move the new live album to that page.

If there are no new songs, you defginitely will not get an o.k., since that would equal cover band. Each incarnation of a band must have a release with at least some own material in order to get accepted.

I mean, I'd say this is a GLARING exception given that the "cover band" is playing songs that the members themselves wrote. If anything this would be akin to a name change (which does warrant a new page) since it's the original band members playing their own songs under a different name.

No, sorry, there is no exception, the band must have new material released under the new name, we have mentioned it here countless times. If it happens in the future, then a new page will be created.

Can I get a second opinion from another mod? I obviously see what Witcher is saying but I think the uniqueness of the situation plus the fact that the site's rules don't say anything about releasing NEW material (just SOME material, which they are releasing) makes this a valid suggestion. It seems counterintuative to put the new live album on the band's old page, which still lists an old lineup and is officially "on hold."

I am inclined to agree with you and disagree with Witcher, but I am concerned about the precedent it might set.

On the other hand, Heaven & Hell is writing new material, since they played new songs on their live show, so we might not even have to have the debate anyway.

Then it would be hard to further block bands like this, since here the original composer is a part of the band too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Mages

Heaven and Hell of course will get accepted with their new material anyway, but their listing with the live album only would mean a submission of demoless bands with the listing of their old demos under their old names, not to speak about possible submissions of new projects of former members of famous bands - for example (fictional) new project by Abbath imo.

So? Go ahead and add them as long as they're metal. Hell, I'd do it myself with a go-ahead. It's silly to call someone a cover artist when they're playing their own music.

Also, thank you Morrigan. I know the precedent sounds like it might be bad but really, how many situations exactly like this are there? I don't think you'd see a flood of cover bands being submitted due to this decision. As I said, it's fairly unique.

Anyway, I don't want to piss anyone off by adding them if it's determined they're against the rules, so I'll hold off unless someone expressly tells me I should add them.

Personally I would not care so much, but then the users should not came crying here and insulting me, that I have rejected their precious demoless band -" but there are members of Beseech there" and the like.
I got such band at least three times this week.

As you can hear, Black Mages are metal, the first song is even in euro power style, the second in prog metal and the reviews indicate, that all of their material is like that.
http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/ ... index.html

Black Mages is more hard rock than metal, and it's rock versions of video game songs, so original composer or not, they're out. It's not a band name change, like H&H is.

Back to Heaven and Hell . from me on prezuiwf can submit them straight away, but the other users should not expect, that their brazilian power metal band will be accepted under two different names with the demo with completely same name and tracklist.

Thank you, I very much appreciate it!

Shouldn't there be a country tag at the band name? There are two other Heaven and Hell's on the archives.

Quote:

If you believe the band Heaven And Hell (UK) contains error in its data that you cannot correct yourself, that simply should not be here, or that should be reviewed by a moderator for whatever reasons, you can report it here.

Just enter the reason(s) for this report here (ex: is not an heavy metal band, contains tracklisting errors, etc.).

The band will be flagged and reviewed by a moderator.

It is already corrected.

I think the closest precedent to this situation of Oliver/Dawson Saxon. They have only released live albums and DVDs on which they perform exclusively old Saxon songs, and maybe throw in a few by Son of a Bitch, which was practically the same band as Oliver/Dawson Saxon and had recorded an album of originals.

Also, couldn't "The Devil Cried," "Shadow of the Wind," and "Ear in the Wall" be considered original material by Heaven and Hell, in some sense?

One question; why were they added a month and a week before the release date of the DVD/live album? I thought the material must be officially released first before a band gets added here.

Normally I wouldn't have suggested that the band be added before the official release, but the live album was accepted on the Black Sabbath page and was apparantly non-controversial. Also, future releases are allowed as long as their info has been confirmed.

Because prezuiwf was so convinced about his submission of a major, famous metal band, that I have not validated the dates- the album was already added to B. S. page, as is the rather unpleasant practice here. I will not remove them now, since it would not help anybody. Fortunately, it is not such a long time, and the albums will get really released, when the earth does not explode or something like that.

To clarify - only for already added bands with other legit released material.

The album was not accepted, as I have told, some point hungry moron has added it once again immediately when the tracklisting was confirmed and the cover published.

It's not exactly the same case, because H&H's is an altogether new album, with previously unreleased recordings.

Those songs were released under Black Sabbath name, and there are no informations in the booklet that those three tracks are "performed by Heaven and Hell", thus they are considered Sabbath tracks.
Which made H&H a cover band until 2009 when they released album with tracks created by the band "Heaven and Hell".

I know that replying to topic which is 'dead' for 5 years is stupid, byt I was looking for information why they were accepted to MA while they had no original material and were only playing old Sabbath tracks.

And yet you do it anyway?