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Expedience
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 4509
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:52 am 
 

I'd like to gauge the general importance of lyrics to listeners here. What exactly do they mean to you personally, if anything?

My first instinct was always to say 'none whatsoever'. I'd never really considered them as anything other than a string of words. Rather than take meaning from what is being said, I would instead assign them a meaning based on the music I was hearing. When Summoning is being played I'd imagine them singing about ornate halls deep in abandoned mountain valleys, and I wouldn't give a shit if the booklet lyrics said something completely different.

I wonder how common this is with other metal listeners. I also wonder how much I'm missing by not paying attention to what's being sung, because I also listen to folk, rock and opera and take much more from lyrics in those two genres.

Something I've also considered is whether we're drawn to metal because we form ideas differently somehow. I was talking about an acoustic rock song with a friend recently and became aware that she didn't like it because she couldn't understand the words (the vocals were very low in the mix). This was a shock to me. The way people get enjoyment from music must vary extraordinarily widely, whether verbally, rhythmically, musically, structurally or otherwise.

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~Guest 334273
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Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:14 am 
 

It really depends on the genre, i often found them to be the proverbial "icing on the cake", but an icing that can bring my enjoyment up to 11! :)

banal or incomprehensible lyrics don't really destroy a riff-driven album, but can make the difference on singer-songwriter one by turning simple catchy chords to really an experience.
I still remember how my view of New Model Army changed after i started to pay attention to the words, becoming one of my favorites instead of simply a "good band with catchy riffs" and making me discover how carefully crafted are their songs.

Great words can't save an album i don't like, but can really give me the will to keep trying to listen it from time to time!

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Dhranna
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:27 am
Posts: 194
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:43 am 
 

Lyrics are of vital importance to me in a lot of music. Over the years Ive found my own way to balance that out depending on the style of music. I feel you can give equal attention to all aspects of a song if you so desire. I know people who feel that lyrics are nothing more than a distraction. Sometimes they're not important. As far as metal goes, esp BM which I mainly listen to, the lyrics are often terrible, juvenile, in broken English/ a foreign language or incomprehensible. I'm quite happy with that for BM but would find it unbearable in other music genres.
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Bishop_Drugsalot
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:42 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:59 am 
 

They are important. As much as the general content of them, I care about how they fit with the music. That's why I can't really get behind life-affirming lyrics in black metal (or white metal whatever) and so forth. Certain lyrical themes are of course more dear to me than others but well written meaningful lyrics mean a lot no matter the content.
The lyrics actually play a bigger part for me in almost every other genre than metal, hence I have to dig a little more to find stuff I really dig.
Well, not maybe dancepop, funk and so forth but in country, folk, and others in that vein.

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wrathchild_88
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:16 pm
Posts: 495
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:34 am 
 

Lyrics are the least important thing about music to me. I tend to think of vocals as another instrument; how they fit in sonically with the rest of the band and their general tone matter to me more than what they're saying.
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LordStenhammar
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:43 am 
 

For the most part, I don't really care. But sometimes good lyrics make the songs even better, and are in that way an essential part of the whole experience. For example Reverend Bizarre and Babylon Whores had interesting topics in their songs. I don't of course understand all their meanings, but can still appreciate them. Celtic Frost's To Mega Therion has lyrics which are well in line with the majestic atmosphere. Also the Finnish lyrics of Enochian Crescent/The Crescent have really affected my own writing.

But for the most time I don't really pay attention to them. I listen music with headbones, and don't read the booklets.


Last edited by LordStenhammar on Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1433
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:50 am 
 

Depends on the genre. I don't really pay attention to lyrical content in death or black metal, per example. But those usually don't have mind blowing and deep lyrics, with the selling point being the vocals and the instruments.

Now if it's a thrash or a traditional heavy metal band, I do pay attention to lyrics, yes... I mean, how can you not? They're right there and easy to hear them clearly. Each song tells a story for me in some sort of way or another. I sorta view each album as a tv show's season and each song in it as an episode... although this goes for any artist. Know what I mean?

Now, are lyrics vital to me? Well, it depends. A song doesn't need to have deep lyrics in order to be good. You gotta have both accepting musicianship and acceptable lyrics.

The only time lyrics might ruin a song for me is if they're highly ideological and said ideology clashes with mine. It's fine if I don't agree with everything, but if it's the total opposite or something I find silly or even offensive, I tend to avoid it. I know it's not metal, but I have a hard time taking Rage Against the Machine seriously thanks to their lyrics, even though I have enjoyed a few of their songs in the past and am willing to overlook the content of said songs if I'm quite drunk.
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droneriot
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:05 pm 
 

A lot of times it is more important to me how the lyrics sound than what they are about. Word aesthetics of sorts. Can be a great instrument to enhance the music.

Two examples from the song "The Unearthly" by Revenant:

"Subterranean descent into ultra conscious non existence"

"Sub atomic reasoning
Creates uncertain distances
Between reality and consciousness
Temporal existence disintegrates into micro molecular infinity"

I haven't got a fucking clue what he's trying to tell me, but listen to the song it sounds so fucking cool that I'd rate it on the same level as a face-melting solo in terms of elements in a song that grab you by the balls.
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Kveldulfr
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:38 pm 
 

In some subgenres, lyrics are almost as important as the music. Doom/death is one of them.

Lyrics also gain importance when the music matches them perfectly. Empyrium's first 2 albums are an excellent example of how you can get the message by the music alone and reading the lyrics only makes the experience better.

On death and black metal also happens this. Incantation's pitch black sound really brings a utter evil feeling, especially the Pillard albums. Benton on the first 2 Deicide albums sounded like if he was truly preaching to Satan.

Samael's first 3 are hard to compare in this aspect. Vorph' vocals are totally in a different level, like if he was just a vessel channeling another dimension's sounds.
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RapeTheDead
Stoned Jesus

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 846
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:37 pm 
 

Depends on the subgenre, really. Most harsh vocal-predominant subgenres have less of an emphasis on lyrics, because, well, you can't understand what they're saying in general. That being said, black metal lyrics are more valuable to the music than death metal lyrics, because generally black metal has an ethos and a method to its madness that lyrics give unique insight into. Death metal is a little more straightforward in the message it attempts to express, and having lyrical explanations for the brutish emotions it goes for would just dilute the potency.

As a huge generalization, though, metal's lyrics on the whole are kind of lame when compared to other genres (certain avenues of hip-hop, for example, have a lyrical depth to them that metal can't touch). That's cause the main focus is on the riffs, and the lyrics in metal are just letting you know what the riffs are about.
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droneriot
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:10 pm 
 

RapeTheDead wrote:
That's cause the main focus is on the riffs, and the lyrics in metal are just letting you know what the riffs are about.

The riffs should let you know what the riffs are about. If you can't hear in the music that it's supposed to be a sad song, or a song about battle, or something morbid or whatever, and need the lyrics to point you the way, there's a fundamental problem with the songwriting.
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Wrldeatr
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 377
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:15 am 
 

Yup, none whatsoever. Don't pay any attention to them, don't read the booklets.

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stefan86
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:52 am
Posts: 1011
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:42 am 
 

I was thinking about making a thread about this. I found myself searching more and more for lyrics and topics that actually resonate with my personality, rather than just listening to stuff that's catchy. I think this is one of the reasons a lot of death metal just faded for me, since a lot of it has horror movie and Lovecraft themes that give me absolutely nothing.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:17 pm 
 

I think lyrics are extremely important. Great lyrics are rare in any kind of music, but when done poignantly, written with a literary touch, they can enhance the experience if you're reading along. Horrendous's last album and Atlantean Kodex's last are good examples. Dawnbringer's last two have some amazing lyrics, like I'm reading a pulp sci fi book or fantasy book or something. Tad Morose, Primordial and Tarot all have amazingly good lyrics.

I don't even mind if the lyrics aren't TOO well written. Average workmanlike lyricism and a lack of poetic voice aren't enough to ruin an album for me. It's about the intent for me, and a song with a meaning can be affecting even if the lyrics are too blunt or something. Sonata Arctica's Pariah's Child has some Engrish-y lyrics but they're all very clear in their meaning and delivered with passion, so I dig it.

Where lyrics ruin it for me are when they're written with some kind of shitty intent. Dave Mustaine's political conspiracy ramblings are a negative for me, an instant deal breaker. I was listening to Dream Theater's Octavarium and "Never Enough" is easily the worst on that album, solely for the extremely petty passive aggressive lyrics bitching about fans. So lame.
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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:18 pm
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Location: the emerald forest
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:39 pm 
 

It's a whole other world...the words of a song as opposed to music. I guess a song with lyrics is equally important in all of it's parts. Words are always secondary for me though I've listened to many albums for the first time with lyrics in hand. If they are good or great then it's double the euphoria. If they are bad and the music is good it's ok, I'm no Joyce myself, but as a songwriter myself I definitely appreciate good lyrics.

They aren't all that hard to write either, I don't think. As long as the intent is there like Empyreal said. I think some bands try too hard with their lyrics, reaching - see: black metal, Opeth. I never feel like I fully understand what the hell Akerfeldt is ever singing about.

Again, Dio was a good lyricist, he's got it all in there. Steele is up there too. Hetfield's good. Dax Riggs is a morbid fuck but cheers. Steve Tucker has good stuff all over Gateways. For what is was I thought Edge of Sanity's 'Crimson' is an effective piece words included. Schammasch have over-the-top but strangely powerful lyrics.

We don't have a verifiable poet laureate though, do we?


Last edited by TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah on Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mysticaloldbard
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm
Posts: 1620
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:10 am 
 

TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
Opeth. I never feel like I fully understand what the hell Akerfeldt is ever singing about.

Well, you aren't alone:
Mikael Akerfeldt on Deliverance's lyrics wrote:
A lot of those songs aren’t about anything. I don’t know what they’re about …

I feel like I'm echoing the general consensus when I say good lyrics can enhance a song, bad lyrics can ruin one, and middling lyrics do nothing. As far as reading the lyrics, that's something I rarely ever do, because, more often than not, lyrics are plain boring on paper. My interest in lyrics is more along the lines of what droneriot said: the aesthetics of their sound. I'm so preoccupied with the riffs and vocal melodies, the lyrics seem to go through one ear and out the other half the time. I can hum through Iron Maiden's discography but still don't know all the words. Then there are bands such as Blind Guardian whose lyrics stuck to me like barbs on clothing. In short: I guess it depends. Some bands have lyrics that pop out to me, others have songs I've been listening to for years but can't recall more than a verse from.
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~Guest 171512
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Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:34 am 
 

TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
Steve Tucker has good stuff all over Altars.


Huh?

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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 1792
Location: the emerald forest
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:14 am 
 

Thiestru wrote:
TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
Steve Tucker has good stuff all over Altars.


Huh?



Whoops meant Gateways lol

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VaderCrush
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:05 am
Posts: 221
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:22 pm 
 

Lyrics can make or break things for me, especially if the music doesn't back things up. A good example would be Jesu; the lyrics are repetitive, bland and meaningless pouting, but that would be okay with me if the music itself wasn't so dull. Meanwhile, a band like Freedom Call is totally mindless fantasy lyrics but the music that carries them is top notch and enjoyable.

On the flipside, regardless of how great the riffing is or how heavy the atmosphere, I'm not going to listen to a NSBM song about killing jews or blacks or whatever. There's a point where the stupidity in lyrics grows so great that I can't legitimize myself listening to it anymore.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:27 pm 
 

I don't give a shit about lyrics unless they are awesome.

Usually, in metal, they are shit.
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RapeTheDead
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:05 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
RapeTheDead wrote:
That's cause the main focus is on the riffs, and the lyrics in metal are just letting you know what the riffs are about.

The riffs should let you know what the riffs are about. If you can't hear in the music that it's supposed to be a sad song, or a song about battle, or something morbid or whatever, and need the lyrics to point you the way, there's a fundamental problem with the songwriting.


Sure, but a lot of songs in metal are trying to replicate more complex emotional states that can't be fully explained through melody. The solace you find within loneliness, the simultaneous wonder and emptiness of contemplating your place in the universe--I don't think any chord progression out there properly captures these feelings (and if there is one out there, please show it to me). I don't know about you, but I like to listen to music for more than just the base emotional reaction I get when I hear it. That's a factor, don't get me wrong, but sometimes the emotions I feel when I hear a song don't really match up to what the artist was trying to convey, because everyone's interpretations differ wildly. Riffs can do everything on their own, sure, but sometimes you understand stuff a lot more clearly with context. That's where lyrics come in.

You could perhaps make the argument that musicians choose the words they use (especially in metal) more for how they sound as opposed to what they mean, but that's the struggle of writing words that go along to music--bringing meaning out within aesthetics.
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James Mustain
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:59 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:15 am 
 

Lyrics are very important. They are what make the music metal (one of several elements); Geezer's subject matter in the early Sab albums separated the songs from what Led Zep and others were singing about during the 70s. Instead of getting on a woman's pants or giving peace a chance, Ozzy was singing about the evils of war ("War Pigs"), isolation from society ("Paranoid"), drug abuse ("Hand of Doom"), nuclear fall-out ("Electric Funeral"), and so on.

Read the lyrics of any metal band from the 80s like Crimson Glory or Virgin Steele and you'll discover, if not good, at least serviceable, entertaining lyrics. Also, playing extreme styles such as death metal and thrash is not an excuse for shoddy lyrics or those written without thinking about form or aesthetics. Morbid Angel is a great example of this; in "Altars of Madness", the lyrics about Elder Gods were really thought out and would make even H.P. Lovecraft proud.

To me, at least, listening to an album is not just about immersing myself in the sounds but also reading the lyrics to the songs, admiring the artwork and even checking out the liner notes. Well-crafted lyrics as opposed to dumb ranting such as can be found in some anti-Christian black metal bands makes the difference in the presentation and ultimately, in the appreciation of the music. Think of it as the music's "soul" or "spirit" while the music is the "flesh" or the "body". Bottom line is lyrics do matter especially if the music is excellent and played with great skill, passion and emotion.

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Emanon
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:19 am
Posts: 270
Location: Shqipëria
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:20 am 
 

To me, lyrics can be nice, but they're by no means essential. Some of my favorite stuff has lyrics I just plain can't understand (hello, black metal!), or that are in a language I don't speak (hello, Moonsorrow!). To me, good metal doesn't rely on the lyrics to get the message or the feeling across. I'm told Moonsorrow has excellent lyrics if you speak Finnish, but I don't feel that I need to understand the words to experience the atmosphere. Metal that relies on lyrics to get the point across is generally lacking.
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