Nocturnal Poisoning (a non metal project), like you said is POST Xaxthur, meaning it's not a side project so I have no idea why you're talking about that.

Ok, point taken, but all I meant was that Byla are a non-metal project, be they post/side or whatever. I find the inclusion of a review of Byla material on the site to be unusual from a purely musical standpoint. I obviously need to read the rules regarding side projects...

Nocturnal Poisoning don't belong on the site either, even if the links to the Xasthur sound are quite obvious. Before I further tie myself in knots I'd like to finally say that if Tom Araya created a record that sounded like Tim Hecker I still wouldn't expect it to get a review on this site.

Would the mods consider taking the Dutch goregrind/pornogrind band Hymen Holocaust off the blacklist? I don't know when they were blacklisted or based upon what material, but the one album I know by them (Hot Love, from 2010) sounds pretty death metal-based as far as goregrind goes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw31v9EtzSQ&t=1m12s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9G7cCQV5y0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fpPce-Icio

I'll link more if needed, but based on those three tracks, would the band maybe be acceptable?

No, I wouldn't say so. There're some death metal touches, but they're mostly peripheral at best. The bulk of the music is still powered by those down-tuned repetitive guitars that sees most groovy goregrind (read: pornogrind) bands blacklisted.

This album isn't too different from their debut, which is probably what they were blacklisted on. I'd leave it, dude. Rompeprop's "Hellcock's Pornflakes" has more death metal influences than this, and Morrigan herself was the one who blacklisted them, if I recall.

Hey Gang,

My submission for The Stratagem was rejected because "Not a metal band; does not belong on Encyclopaedia Metallum."

Facebook.com/thestratagemofficial
iTunes release -
https://itunes.apple.com/au/album/self- ... d663893789

I don't understand what is not metal about this

Thanks

The band is blacklisted twice under different variations of the name and different countries, by two different mods: one noted them as "djent" the other as "-core". After a brief listen, I agree that it's some sort of technical hardcore/deathcore, not even close to predominantly metal.

Hello...my project The Conjuration (United States, progressive/experimental/avant-garde death metal) has been blacklisted, but I have 4 releases under my belt and I'm signed to Swimming With Sharks Records. I have submitted before, and apparently lacked the credentials (no "official" something another, being the reason), but now I believe my entry is completely justified. Thank you for your time (and hopefully an explanation?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyxVM9wtCnU

http://swimmingwithsharksrecords.bandcamp.com/album/surreal

Wow... Just because you wouldn't call it metal doesn't mean that other people don't. It's people like you that are breaking the metal scene apart into sub genres where people should be uniting to celebrate all that is heavy.. Good luck to you mate, enjoy spinning your metallica records while you drink mead from a used condom.

Seems it was blacklisted because it wasn't predominantly metal. I'm listening through it as I'm writing this ("Surreal", it wasn't out yet when the blacklisting happened), tricky to judge. There's a lot going on. I could call this both experimental death metal with all kinds of non-metal elements and experimental music which happens to have death metal elements. In the end, I think I'd be just about okay with it, but not without a second and preferably third mod opinion first.

I'm here to ask about Between the Buried and Me actually.

I don't see why they wouldn't be on here actually. While they're primarily a metalcore band they've certainly proved themselves as beyond the stereotypical "scenie weenie aa core omg Cx" style band. I think they more than deserve the spot. Hell, if bands like Killswitch Engage and All That Remains are on here I don't see why BTBAM can't be here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPzj0cgjr_0 First album stuff; very heavy. A lot more death metal influence especially vocal wise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_T1nIQQ-zs 3rd album I believe. More melodic and definitely building up technically speaking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNdRh2un5eg This album is a progressive masterpiece

Do a short research next time, please.
search.php?keywords=between+the+buried+and+me&terms=all&author=&fid[]=3&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

None of that pertains to specifically WHY they're not on here that's the best part. Just other users containing valid reasons as to why they should be on here.

If your reason is because of "metalcore" influence then why are bands like Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, All That Remains, etc on here. They are full on metalcore. Which saying a band can't be on here because they're metalcore is bullshit. Metalcore is a form of metal. It's a crossover of extreme metal and hardcore punk with most metalcore bands incorporating more metal elements such as Between the Buried and Me.

All of Between the Buried and Me's albums are a crossover of progressive metal, metalcore, and even technical death. So can I get a straightforward reason as to why they're blacklisted instead of search results that I've browsed through about 3 or 4 pages and haven't found a reason for?

Eh why was Arcaica (Italy) removed?

There's plenty of straightforward posts made by mod, by derigin, alhadis, bastardhead or even myself.

viewtopic.php?p=1870363#p1870363

Basically, BTBAM (I'm kind of a fan) includes many different musical styles, metalcore (leaning more towards 'core) was the style they played in their early days and now they play some kind of progressive music including some prog metal, post metal, post hardcore but this mix of influences (mostly of non metal sounds) makes their identity a non metal one. We accept bands that are clearly metal, not only 34,8% metal.

There's lots of bands that are more on the hardcore side of the spectrum. As you say, it's a hybrid genre between hardcore and metal. Shouldn't be too difficult to see that sometimes hardcore is predominant in a band's musical foundation. Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall and All That Remains are metallic enough for the site. Look, I don't know BtBaM very well myself, but they've been discussed to death here. Staffers who are familiar with them feel that the progressive/hardcore elements outweigh the metal ones.


viewtopic.php?p=2409716#p2409716 Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Nope. Just asking. Too bad though.

The simple, straight-forward reason is that the band has yet to fulfill our qualifications for acceptance.

Generally, for a band to be accepted, it needs to have released a valid, predominantly metal album. This is broken up into three parts:

1. The album must be undoubtedly, predominantly metal. We define this loosely as having music based on or rooted in metal riffs; it is what makes the music heavy metal and not something else entirely.
2. The album must be valid. We explain this better in our guidelines, but in short, it must be an authorized legitimate album either physically released or digitally available for download.
3. Lastly, the album must be out already (ie. released) and made available (ie. distributed). We generally don't care how. The basic thing that matters is that the album is "out there" somewhere.

We have determined that BTBAM does not qualify based off of the first point. Like Soulfly and a whole other array of similar bands, BTBAM's sound not only fluctuates wildly, but the roots of its music aren't so clearly based on metal riffing. This is evident as you listen to any single album, as no one album sounds undoubtedly, predominantly metal. You may disagree with us on this point, and certainly your arguments have validity... BTBAM is (likely) closer towards creating a metal album than other bands... but for now they have yet to make one. Maybe they will, maybe they wont. We are simply observers making observations, and those observations tell us that the band does not qualify for acceptance.

That said, it's sometimes argued - and you argue it too - that because X band is on the archives, Y band should be, too. Think back to what I just said, and you may realize why that argument isn't a valid one here. All we require is a single metal album. Some bands produce a metal album or two and then quickly go off to create music that is completely and utterly non-metal; we will accept those bands regardless if their later career is completely off-the-rails. In fact, those bands tend to be more common, perhaps because it's easier for them to start off metal and to gravitate to something else, then it is for a band to start off non-metal and gradually adjust to producing metal albums. That is one reason why a band like Soulfly took a long time to get accepted here; we needed to be convinced that the more recent albums the band released were undoubtedly metal and not rooted in whatever the band was playing before. It usually takes time for bands to adjust to basing their sound wholly in a new genre; we try not to jump the gun on making that assumption for them. So, in short, while X band may have one metal album and a slew of non-metal albums, comparing it to other bands when it comes to judging those other bands for acceptance is futile. We will judge bands on their own merits, not on the merits of other bands.

EDIT: One last comment, now that I think about it. What is meant by an album being undoubtedly metal? For an album to be acceptable, it shouldn't be a struggle trying to decide whether it qualifies or not. That doesn't mean it wont be discussed, of course, but it should mean that there ought to be some semblance of agreement or consensus among mods about the nature of an album. If there's uncertainty one way or another that usually suggests that it is not clear whether the album is metal. There's doubt. Looking back at the example I used with Soulfly, over time that doubt disappeared. It got to the point that there was consensus among mods about the nature of the album that got the band accepted, and it became second nature for us to accept it as we would any other band with a metal album. It wasn't a struggle because there was no longer any doubt among us. If it comes to the point that BTBAM does release an undoubtedly metal album, its acceptance would be a non-issue. Its acceptance wouldn't need to be argued.

You guys do make some points but the Silent Circus was a pretty solid tech death album. If you guys haven't given it a listen yet I'd suggest you do. Most of their albums are usually split influence wise but their self titled.
At the very least I'd say accept them for that album and have the others there for reference. I mean cmon, you guys have Rush. And their prog rock definitely outweighs the prog metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMFq_dYF2kc Mordecai off the Silent Circus.

EDIT: That song might have a mellow part but if I remember correctly that's the extent. There's no funky polka parts like in Colors. This album to me a pure tech death/borderline metalcore album.

We've thoroughly reviewed every BTBAM album up until now, and we've determined none qualify for the band's acceptance. You would have to wait for their next album before we rejudge the band. From the looks of it, the band doesn't have anything other than a live rerecording of their 2012 album on the way, so that may mean the next time BTBAM comes up for another review wont be until 2015 or 2016 at the earliest.

As far as Rush goes, it has at least one predominantly metal album, even if the vast majority of the band's career is rock. This is just another example why we don't use comparisons like this to judge bands. They're in the encyclopedia because they have a metal album. That's the same requirement we would give for any band.

Just OOC, which album is that? Clockwork Angels definitely solidified the metal sound in my book, but since they were obviously here before 2012 I'd be interested to hear what Rush album(s) the mods consider predominantly metal.

If I remember correctly, it was Roll the Bones. We could argue that Vapor Trails could also be considered prog metal/rock or their older stuff like Caress of Steel, Hemisphere or 2112, all proto prog metal albums.

Also, no way that BTBAM is anywhere near technical death metal.

just had a bit of a search and i couldn't find anything on this band, so hopefully it's safe to ask: is ugly kid joe on the blacklist, or is it just that no one's bothered to add them? imo they'd meet the "must be metal" criterion fairly easily with their first 2 albums (their third album gets pretty alt-rockish in places, but post-reunion EP is again metal) at least to the same degree that faith no more's the real thing and angel dust do - probably a bit of a borderline area, and they do have that "silly" element that doesn't seem to appeal much here, but i'll ask anyway cause i reckon they're sweet, and i'd totally write a review or two once they're up (high 80s/low 90s, etc...)

They are on the blacklist (with no note). Always thought of them as some kind of 90's alternative rock band, but then again it's not like I listen to them much. I will check those albums you mentioned and report back.

EDIT: Apparently I even have "America's Least Wanted" on CD? Huh, you discover something new every day.

Band: The Outer Limits (thrash metal, Bulgaria)
Reson for rejection: Are you sure the album is out yet? I can't find it in the Stormspell store and the Bandcamp only has a few tracks for streaming.

The Stormspell guy has just send me some physical CDs and will upload it in the webstore as soon as he can. It may well be that physical copies are available before the album is uploaded on his online store.
That's why I consider "World Metal Domination" oficially released (you couldn't know it, I agree). Anyway, my query is, would you consider approving my submission on the basis of this clarification or we wait until the album is up for sale on the Stormspell site? Either way is OK, I am glad that you take your time and check facts. You are doing a great job!

Shouldn't be too difficult for him to update his webstore if the release is publicly available already. Please wait until that happens.

Not only did we check the facts but I also had a full conversation with the Stormspell guy about all the records that are supposed to be out but really aren't. The key here is, are they available to purchase/download etc.... you may have some CD's but until the rest of the public can buy/download the record then really, there is no valid distribution.

Thanks for the clarification. I really hope it is available to the public soon, not only because of the metal-archives entry

I've asked some other moderators for their input and we've decided that the band is not acceptable. The focus of the music doesn't seem to be metal.

yes, I want a copy myself. The streaming songs are good.

Seconding the request for a review of Submit to Genocide. The music sounds like dirtier Heavy/Speed Metal with an obvious Hardcore influence; think of them as The Mentors meets Motörhead.

Here's the entire album of Submit to Genocide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L57BrKk3mVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hQMGoK1Xj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOnugjhsYYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10JP981x2QY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEPcL2vioWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6eLxK0G0W0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XvbeiSs-E4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=097yVsrLwyM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PugqdCqV7TM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeOpnSJppwg

I don't understand why Nuclear Devastation is blacklisted on this site, we play metal and we have valid releases. This is not a side project either, and the ironic part is that the band that we are doing a split with (Ramlord) is featured on the Metal Archives. Just listen to this, metal enough if you ask me...

And yes, our music does have non metal (read: crust punk/hardcore) influences but I can name plenty of bands on here that do too. We still are metal at the core.

Yeah, that blacklisting is another leftover from the "Witcher administration". Not the first time these guys have been brought up here and -I think- not the first time I've checked out that album. It still sounds like punk with metal influences most of the time, not the other way around. I absolutely do get the metalpunk Motörhead vibe, though. Not sure...


Not sure what's "ironic" (notice the quotes ) about that. Do bands have to sound the same (or even similar) to appear on a split together?

In any case, here is some old posts about the band: viewtopic.php?p=2263638#p2263638 It seems the band's earlier release(s) was/were pure crust, then they released a sorta okay split with two songs and now another split with one song that sounds like acceptably metallic crust too. Eh, I guess it's alright, removed from the blacklist.

@Ugly Kid Joe: Sorry, mostly rock, as suspected.

EDIT: I screwed up the post, sorry. Mixed the Edit and Quote buttons... OpsiusCato

Wait, does this mean I can try to add them again?

Yes.

Yeah, it's not unambiguously metallic. It jumps to either side of the fence as a rabbit on crack cocaine. Sorry, but it's not strikingly Metal.

Hey
I forgot to put out our Bandcamp site http://pointlessfate.bandcamp.com/ its a finished mixed EP that we also sell and is on Spotify

I suppose it's like Beowülf in that sense.

Oh well. So much for Genocide.