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androdion
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:13 pm 
 

There's another good website for catching up bootlegs: http://www.metal-treasures.com/

Down on the right frame you'll notice a link to a bootleg sections, and it's very extensive!
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Metal_Detector
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:18 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
There's another good website for catching up bootlegs: http://www.metal-treasures.com/

Down on the right frame you'll notice a link to a bootleg sections, and it's very extensive!


Ah, yes, I totally forgot about this place. This will be an excellent resource, especially to keep up with the numerous bootlegs plaguing Deception Ignored.

I do find it hilarious what the bootleggers mess up, though. To go through all the trouble of getting the matrix number and the look of the overall package correct and then misspell a random word on the CD... :durr: I get that they probably don't speak English and all, but wow. Though in this case, I suppose I'm grateful for their incompetence.

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androdion
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:33 pm 
 

Let's hope they keep fucking up right?! Nowadays distinguishing a Noise Records boot is virtually impossible... :(

Why the need for a first press of Deception Ignored when you have the Divebomb reissue? First press syndrome?! :p
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CollectionDecimation
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:03 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:36 pm 
 

Does anyone know why I have a cdr version of this bootleg?

The cover (1 page, btw) and tray inlay are professionally pressed, but the disc is a cdr with a photocopied sticker .. it is a reversed version of the pro-disc version (white with black type).

Is this just junk or did the bootlegger print too many covers/tray inlays?

Thanks.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:44 pm 
 

There are tons of odd bootlegs of these two because they were never officially re-released. Is there any label name on it?

Most CD-r bootlegs are junk anyway.

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Metal_Detector
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:48 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Let's hope they keep fucking up right?! Nowadays distinguishing a Noise Records boot is virtually impossible... :(

Why the need for a first press of Deception Ignored when you have the Divebomb reissue? First press syndrome?! :p


Haha, well, I make special exceptions for my absolute favorite albums. I bought what I believe to be an original for forty-five dollars a few days ago and will study it well when it arrives. I love Divebomb's reissues, though, so they're not the problem. I do have a bit of the original copy bug.

Noise Records CDs are pretty much indistinguishable from their bootlegs, sadly, so I usually try to pick up a copy of one of their colored CD runs if one is available and there's no safe alternative (a yellowish one for Brain Damage, a blue one for Deception Ignored, etc.). I believe these are more difficult to bootleg, and if they are, they're usually easier to tell apart. Also, I just like the look and feel of them :-D

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androdion
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:22 pm 
 

Ha, you're quite right there. It's usually the European editions that get bootlegged more, mainly silver printed discs with black letters which are quite easy to replicate. US versions, like that blue printed copy of Deception Ignored (they have this unique matrix type: WK*****), are much harder to replicate. In fact I don't think they usually try. So yeah, that's a good call right there. :nods:
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:17 pm 
 

CollectionDecimation can we see some scans or photos?

androdion wrote:
First press syndrome
HELP ME I'M SICK! :cry:
I think some of you guys have issues too ha ha :tinfoil:
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androdion
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:45 pm 
 

Now now, do I need to start a trademark war over that term?! :guns:
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:51 am 
 

HA! you sure do :grin:

So Intronaut's Void is a CDR right guys?
Pro printed but still just a CDR
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slayerhatesusall
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:37 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
HA! you sure do :grin:

So Intronaut's Void is a CDR right guys?
Pro printed but still just a CDR

Mine is silver pressed but there does seem to be a cdr version on discogs.
http://www.discogs.com/Intronaut-Void/release/952929
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:46 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
scans of my Intronaut - Void disc, if anyone could compare theirs would be helpful
catalogue number - GFR042
barcode - 621617104228
matrix - KJRY [logo] CDR UG 80E I441603
printed - 5P80 1-2-1 0811010635-54

Image Image

can anyone confirm this info?
I just found someone who has a non CDR version of it?!
http://www.discogs.com/release/952929

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Intronaut/Void/124141
http://www.musik-sammler.de/album/96507
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:50 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
So Intronaut's Void is a CDR right guys?
Pro printed but still just a CDR
slayerhatesusall wrote:
Mine is silver pressed but there does seem to be a cdr version on discogs.
http://www.discogs.com/Intronaut-Void/release/952929

Hey, thanks man, is that you at Discogs?
Is your version there?
That version you linked to is what I have.
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slayerhatesusall
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:56 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
dreadmeat wrote:
So Intronaut's Void is a CDR right guys?
Pro printed but still just a CDR
slayerhatesusall wrote:
Mine is silver pressed but there does seem to be a cdr version on discogs.
http://www.discogs.com/Intronaut-Void/release/952929

Hey, thanks man, is that you at Discogs?
Is your version there?
That version you linked to is what I have.


My discogs username is the same as it is here. My version is this one:
http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=5187509
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Big_Grand
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:35 pm 
 

So I've noticed that the Two Hunters CD I had for over a year now had a different cover than what comes up when I google the album. My first thoughts were that I was missing a whole page to the booklet, then I came across this discogs entry with the same cover,saying it was a misprint, limited to 50 copies. Could anyone confirm if the cover itself is misprinted? Or am I really just missing a page.

Spoiler: show
Image

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:00 am 
 

Discogs don't allow hotlinking images
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Big_Grand
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:35 pm 
 

Does it not show for you?

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DeathfareDevil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:01 pm 
 

Amazon has had these mysterious Noise reissues for sale for a while now, so I finally decided to snag a few: Voivod's Killing Technology and Dimension Hatross, and Coroner's Punishment for Decadence. I recall someone either in this thread or on this board more generally suspecting they were bootlegs of one kind or another. Anyone know what exactly they are? On discogs the Voivods have the correct matrix info but no real source/production info:
http://www.discogs.com/Vo%C3%AFvod-Kill ... se/1740784
http://www.discogs.com/Voivod-Dimension ... se/3385010
http://www.discogs.com/Coroner-Punishme ... se/2602122

Regarding the matrix there's a "DIDX-" followed by a 6 digit number on all three of these, with (obviously) the 6 digit # varying. The Coroner is DIDX - 256337:
Spoiler: show
Image

I'm listening to PFD now and it doesn't sound remastered in the slightest, very low volume, which is sort of nice, to be honest. Anyway I'm just curious if anyone ever figured out the origin and legitimacy of these Noise reissues.

Uh .... as I'm typing this, at 4:30 in "Skeleton on Your Shoulder," the volume just went down noticeably. Did that happen on the original press? The next track sounds back to normal. Weird.

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japc
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:49 pm 
 

Those are from Amazon or from a 3rd party? Maybe they are just nice (which, to me, means as unchanged as possible) represses, I feel tempted.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:14 pm 
 

japc wrote:
Maybe they are just nice (which, to me, means as unchanged as possible) represses

... that don't exist...

There's a reason why old Noise Records albums from the eighties that were never reissued are rare. It's because they were never reissued! We did have a discussion here about Noise editions being sold abound, and point is you can't tell what the hell they are unless you have them in your hand and compare against an original. PFD is from 1988 and that CD has SID codes (which date from 1994), do the math. Plus, that matrix... :nono:
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DeathfareDevil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:21 pm 
 

Straight from Amazon, yeah. Prices kind of flux between $11 and $13, and every once in a while Dimension Hatross goes into "may take 3-5 days to ship" mode for some reason.

Here's tray card scans, while we're at it:
Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Killing Technology has the 2004 date, at least.

edit: to be clear, I am in no way suggesting these are original presses. I'm just befuddled by the lack of info about them.

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japc
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:31 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
There's a reason why old Noise Records albums from the eighties that were never reissued are rare. It's because they were never reissued!


My point is that maybe they were. According to discogs Noise Records existed until 2001, then became part of Sanctuary until 2007 and has since been assimilated by Universal Music. I doubt that the later 2 would simply repress the albums without much fanfare but 2001 is not that far and Noise itself could have done the represses, it's not that they where obscure releases that didn't deserve a repress after all.

But I guess that if you say that they weren't repressed/reissued then you must have discussed that thorougly on that other thread (can you send me the link to it?).

EDIT: posted this before seing your reply with the backcover scans. So those are Sanctuary reissues, nice, added to my to buy list.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:10 pm 
 

Compare that tray scan with these two, the 2003 and 2007 Sanctuary reissues. Do you notice the difference? ;)

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=4954583
http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=3800837

I know for a fact that Noise did a repress batch of some titles in 1999, though I have no idea if all titles got that treatment. Probably not since by then they should've been nearly bankrupt as they were two years later. There are some reissues dating from 2003 with the Noise/Sanctuary stamp and again in 2007. But it's all a fucking mess to be honest! And as we've discussed thoroughly in the past, several times, there's so much "fragmentation" (to use a term from the smartphone industry) in those presses that it's really hard to say what you're buying. Even when you get it with Noise/Sanctuary stamp you still don't know what you're getting, case in point the purchases displayed above.

I don't know man, I've been trying to get a legit copy of PFD for ages now and somehow Amazon/Ebay always have metric fuckton of "legit" editions, yet no seller will be able to tell you where they come from or which year they were pressed. And then, as you say, Sanctuary bought Noise and was then bought by Universal. Come on, not even the guys in the band know about these reissues, how could we?!
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:47 pm 
 

Big_Grand wrote:
Does it not show for you?
No, but the image is in your cache which is why you can see it.

DeathfareDevil
This image looks fine, it's just a modern repress or reissue, I asked for more info on the 3 releases you linked to too [feel free to do this yourself by the way]
At least they aren't Amazon's vomitous made on demand hideous CDr discs :puke:
Image

Those rear covers are quite different :p
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japc
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:32 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Those rear covers are quite different :p

Different reissues usually are.
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DigitalDictator
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:58 am 
 

DeathfareDevil:
your cds are pressed by a legit plant, I have a cd from the same plant (Ruffians-There and Back): same font, same inner ring, even the same ifpi (L327)and it starts with DIDX!! The only difference is that I also have the name of the plant in the matrix: "CRAVEDOG.COM".
Anyway, I checked my original noise copy of PFD and I did not find anything strange in the track you mentioned...

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DeathfareDevil
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:16 pm 
 

Unless I'm losing my mind, always a possibility, the four different YT vids of "Skeletons..." had that subtle volume drop at around 4:30. My copy of Rotting Christ's "Thy Mighty Contract" does this too in one song, I forget which, and it's way less subtle. Oh well, whatever the case, no biggie, and thanks for doing a comparison check.

Also, I submitted some of this stuff to discogs. Hopefully I edited the right reissues.

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carnival_corpse
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:48 am 
 

I read some discussions above on DIDX matrices. Note that these are used by Sony pressing plants. The good thing about DIDX matrices is that they follow a strict sequence, so if you have other releases with DIDX codes from known pressing years you can interpolate and deterrmine the pressing year if you dont know it. As an example the DIDX-256337 in question, if it is accompanied by an IFPI code we can say at least it is from 1994.

I sorted my CD collection database for matrix number and found the following:

Exodus - Exhibit B: The Human Condition, DIDX-255338, pressed in 2010
Bonded by Blood - Exiled to Earth, DIDX-256619, pressed in 2010

DIDX-256337 is right between these 2, so it was definitely pressed in 2010.

Hope this helps

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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:31 pm 
 

Forgive if these questions have already been addressed, but I don't feel like reading through a 22 page thread.

I found a couple rare CDs I want on ebay for decent prices. There is no way in HELL I'd be able to get the real thing on either one of them. In the past I've seen several bootlegs from Greek sellers usually over $20. Now I have found a Ukrainian seller selling them for $8.40 each. So my question is, how much more shitty are Russian bootlegs than other European bootlegs? Would it be worth it? Oh by the way, it's $8.40 OR BEST OFFER, so that's something to consider.

I found another CD, I don't know how rare it is, but it is 99 cents. It's sold by a Greek seller. The band is Greek, and the record label the original was printed on is Greek. So how likely are Greek sellers to bootleg CDs by Greek bands on Greek labels?

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:56 pm 
 

The Greek thing I'd say is unlikely, but you never know...
Please don't buy bootlegs, you're only encouraging them, the 'licensed' stuff isn't exactly a bootleg though if that's what you mean?

Can we get some links and band/album names?
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androdion
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:25 pm 
 

It would be easier if you said which albums they are. No one is going to "steal" them from you. :p

Interesting stuff that thing about the chronology of the DIDX matrices.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:12 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Can we get some links and band/album names?


Ok.

Greek seller: Marauder - Life?

Ukrainian seller: Heavy Load - Death Or Glory & Stronger Than Evil

I hope androdion is right about no one "stealing" these from me. :-P

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DeathfareDevil
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:39 pm 
 

carnival_corpse wrote:
I read some discussions above on DIDX matrices. Note that these are used by Sony pressing plants. The good thing about DIDX matrices is that they follow a strict sequence, so if you have other releases with DIDX codes from known pressing years you can interpolate and deterrmine the pressing year if you dont know it. As an example the DIDX-256337 in question, if it is accompanied by an IFPI code we can say at least it is from 1994.

I sorted my CD collection database for matrix number and found the following:

Exodus - Exhibit B: The Human Condition, DIDX-255338, pressed in 2010
Bonded by Blood - Exiled to Earth, DIDX-256619, pressed in 2010

DIDX-256337 is right between these 2, so it was definitely pressed in 2010.

Hope this helps


Yeah, thanks for this, it's both interesting and helpful. Reading superficially into a quick google search or two, I'm already finding lots of further chatter about it. I also have realized I've been incorrectly labeling a mastering code as a mould code. Oops. I should probably hold off on my discogs submissions until I get more educated about all of this.

Another thing, on this page it is said, in reference to the single digit after the 6 digit DIDX code, that "The following number shows how many times the recording has been mastered. It is then fair to assume that Smells Like Teen Spirit CDs with the matrix code 'DIDX-011334 3' also exist. [Examples given had a 1, 2, and 4.] The number may or may not give the pressing number. Several metalized glass masters (MGM) could have been created simultaneously for quicker processing and production, but a low number increases the possiblilty of being an earlier pressing."

My Coroner has a "1" and each Voivod has a "2". How does that figure into the discogs entries? I can't imagine having an entry for each variation, likewise I don't see how to include that number in any meaningful way.

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androdion
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:11 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
dreadmeat wrote:
Can we get some links and band/album names?


Ok.

Greek seller: Marauder - Life?

Ukrainian seller: Heavy Load - Death Or Glory & Stronger Than Evil

I hope androdion is right about no one "stealing" these from me. :-P

Now that you mention that, me too... :oh shit:

Why would you think that Marauder is rare? Doesn't seem to be from checking Discogs and finding innumerous copies for sale, dirt cheap. As for the Heavy Load CDs, I think I've read somewhere in the boards that there aren't any official CD releases and that all those that exist are unofficial to some extent. I remember reading it but I can't recall where, maybe ask about it in the Heavy/Power/Speed rec thread? Those guys should know about it. ;)
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:20 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Ok.

Greek seller: Marauder - Life?

Ukrainian seller: Heavy Load - Death Or Glory & Stronger Than Evil

I hope androdion is right about no one "stealing" these from me. :-P

Now that you mention that, me too... :oh shit:

Why would you think that Marauder is rare? Doesn't seem to be from checking Discogs and finding innumerous copies for sale, dirt cheap. As for the Heavy Load CDs, I think I've read somewhere in the boards that there aren't any official CD releases and that all those that exist are unofficial to some extent. I remember reading it but I can't recall where, maybe ask about it in the Heavy/Power/Speed rec thread? Those guys should know about it. ;)


I have no idea if Marauder is rare or not, it's just Greece has a reputation of having a lot of bootlegs. Add to that the low price, so I'm not sure.

From what I understand of Heavy Load, there is one official release of their two 80s albums, on the Japanese label King, done in 1996 I think. These are super rare. But I have already resigned to having to buy bootlegs if I want physical copies. My question is, would Russian bootlegs be of significantly lesser quality than other European bootlegs.

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:28 pm 
 

That Greek seller has 3 negative feedbacks for bootlegs...
And the Ukrainian has 2 negatives for bootlegs
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:31 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
That Greek seller has 3 negative feedbacks for bootlegs...
And the Ukrainian has 2 negatives for bootlegs


Well for the Greek seller I was wondering if it would just be easier, or at least doable, to sell real copies of a Greek band on a Greek label, even if he sells bootlegs for bands/labels from other countries.

As for the Ukrainian seller, I was already aware they are bootlegs, I just want to know if Russian bootlegs are significantly less quality than other European bootlegs. There is no way in hell I would ever score the real copies of the Heavy Load CDs.

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androdion
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:28 pm 
 

I don't think Marauder is a boot because there would be no sense in it being so. As you said, Greek band in a Greek label. Plus, not all Greek sellers sell bootlegs you know?! ;)

As for the quality of the Heavy Load boots, I'd say ask in the Rec thread I mentioned. Someone must have bought them before.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:25 pm 
 

Well both Heavy Loads have been bought by someone else. I get the feeling me posting the links here has something to do with that, lol.

I'll keep my eye on Marauder.

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Tormented666
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:40 pm 
 

I have the same artwork and barcode etc but the matrix runout is Mastered by mayking & mosh 13 cd (mirrored), do I have the "same" pressing or is it just not listed on discogs?

http://www.discogs.com/Bolt-Thrower-Rea ... ase/644031

anyone know?

regards
magnus

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