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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:38 pm 
 

I'd still take both A New Beginning and Jason Takes Manhattan over Halloween: Resurrection. A New Beginning may suck immensely, but I wasn't pissed off by it. Halloween: Resurrection pissed me off. The worst movie of the Friday the 13th series is nowhere near as bad as the multiple worst movies of the Halloween series.

Also, when it comes to Resurrection's found footage aspect, I remember there was a bonus feature on the DVD for that movie where you could watch all the footage from the cameras inside the Myers house in narrative order. It's pretty much what a purely found footage Halloween movie would be, and it sucks.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:23 pm 
 

I like every movie in the series, even 5. That scene in 5 where the chick with the monumental tah-tahs gets garden sheers to the eyes was the greatest thing ever when I was thirteen. Jason Takes Manhattan is overall cool in it's sheer incoherence too, and some of the kills like the one with the sauna rock are completely classic. I'll definitely agree that Jason Goes to Hell is unmemorable, as it's the only one I can't fully recall and quote, but it makes up for that by having a batshit plot, having the most gory deaths in the series, and having a Jason possessed dude shave a body's moustache.

As for the Halloween comparison, the original Halloween is better than any Friday the 13th could possibly wish to be, and the second one is alright, even if it shits all over the first, but anythinh beyond that is really, really bad. I'm not counting III, as I don't view it as part of the series, but it's awesome and SEVERELY underrated.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:25 pm 
 

Every F13 movie is fun to some degree, no matter how small. Most of em aren't exactly very good, but they still all have lots of great camp abounds. Except Jason X. Fuck that movie.

The first, second and fourth ones are all cool.
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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:45 pm 
 

Here's my far less in depth opinion on (parts of) the Friday the 13 franchise. I think I've seen 'em all, but many of them I barely remember. These are the ones that stand out in my mind.

Part 4 (The Final Chapter): Young Corey Feldman, Crispin Glover doing his hilarious dance, and the darker haired girl from Weird Science? This movie is automatically cool just for having all that. Good ending as well, even though we all know it wasn't "the final chapter."

Part 6 (Jason Lives): Fantastic opening ("Gotta make sure he's really dead - oops!"), and I think I enjoyed the rest of the movie. Oddly, I believe this was the first Friday the 13 installment I ever saw.

Part 8 (Jason Takes Manhattan): You know, I have a friend who generally knows more about horror movies than I do, and he'd always tell me "despite its title, the bulk of Jason Takes Manhattan is set on a boat." I figured he was bullshitting me, until I actually saw for myself how right he was. Still not a terrible entry, just badly titled.

Freddy vs. Jason: I remember hearing over a decade ago that this was happening. "What a dumb fucking idea," I thought. "Just mash together two burned out franchises and expect it to work? Pathetic cash grab." Then I saw the thing and was pleasantly surprised. I think my only real complaint is that Freddy should have done at least one more kill (it sort of made sense he didn't, though, because the plot required him to start the movie weak). This one also features Katharine Isabelle from Ginger Snaps, who I think is incredibly cute.

Remake: I liked it. Yeah, I admit, part of my enthusiasm for this one is because it has some of the best T+A in the franchise; I'll never forget the blonde with the "stupendous tits." Still, even if that scene had not been included, I'd consider this an above average entry. The two groups of kids gave Jason plenty of victims, and the main plot (guy looking for missing sister) was more than enough to build this type of movie around.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:53 pm 
 

Star Trek and Star Trek: Into Darkness are fucking stupid.
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DeathRiderDoom
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:54 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:

I really don't understand why people love that movie so much. I thought it suuuuuuuucked. It's an instance of fiction trying to be too much like real life - practically nothing happens, and the characters don't grow or change at all. I thought it could have been OK if the "aren't those Japanese so wacky" bits had been toned down, and ScarJo's character had grown somehow from her experiences there (decided to divorce her husband, be more assertive in her marriage, do something with her life, whatever), but instead it was just "aren't the Japanese weird, watch this bland woman befriend this douchey older guy, the end." I don't want to start getting personal here, but having grown up rich, it's like Sofia Coppola has a very limited understanding of emotions beyond self-centered ennui and vague depression.

Hahaha, nice. But yeah I've always been of the same opinion with this flick. I watched it not long after it came out, felt it bland, forgettable, un-climactic, and even pointless, but then it starting getting all this hype which i could never really understand. There isn't really any character development, and though this may be taken the wrong way - it seems kinda like nothing more than a "chick flick" masquerading as a nuanced, subtle drama film.

My interest in the later Friday the 13th films etc has been piqued by this conversation. I never really looked into them. 'ChineseDownhill's summation of Part 4, particularly.
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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:08 pm 
 

To be completely honest, I'm sure you could find George McFly's dance scene from part 4 on Youtube. Still, I recommend seeing the whole movie. If you do, play a drinking game: take a shot every time somebody refers to his character as a "dead fuck" (apparently it means "lousy in bed").
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:10 pm 
 

Everyone knows the apotheosis of slasher films is Slumber Party Massacre 2. That movie is both mindblowingly shitty and mindblowingly amazing.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:33 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Weren't some of you guys talking about how Ronin was good? Watching it right now - it's one of the flattest heist-type films I've seen :lol: Acting and directing/writing are just awful.

Ok...maybe awful is a bit harsh. Glaringly mediocre.

EDIT: Finished. Man that was shite. What the hell is wrong with you people :lol: Just watched Heat again the other day, though... soooo much better.

What exactly did you find so execrable about it?

I'll admit that's it's been years since I last watched it but I recall liking most things about it; from the frigid atmosphere to the fucking perfect cast to the unique locations for a heist film (although it's much more than just a heist film) to the subtlety in the dialog and character interactions (like when De Niro tests Stellan's reflexes by dropping his coffee cup--totally a moment only David Mamet could have choreographed). About the only thing I didn't like was the heavy-handed stuff where they explain in ridiculous detail who the ronin were and how De Niro's character related to them; that was terrible, but I forgive it because the movie had a huge budget and American audiences sure loves them some explanations of ridiculously obvious stuff.

I am a pretty huge Mamet fan, though. I've read/watched pretty much everything he's ever done.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:09 pm 
 

As a Mamet fan, what do you think of Heist, Spartan and Oleanna?

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:23 pm 
 

Spartan is brilliant. The ending reveal with Kristen Bell was just astounding. I think it's an incredibly underrated film and I'm always quick to defend it.

Heist wasn't great. It was way better than The Score, but that says pretty much nothing as The Score was garbage. Both films existences were all but negated by the amazing Spanish thriller Nine Queens that pulled off everything either film wanted to do an entire year before they were released. I'd say Heist may be the least interesting thing Mamet has ever made.

I haven't seen the film version of Oleanna but I've acted in the play and written a handful of papers on it. The play is a masterwork but I'll be the first to admit that Mamet plays don't transition nearly as smoothly to the big screen as one would probably guess given his extensive background in Hollywood. I thought Glengarry Glen Ross worked way better on the stage than in the cinema; Edmond too (although I did like both films, especially Edmond).

I'm guessing you disliked all three? They're regularly referenced as some of Mamet's worst.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:31 am 
 

I disliked Oleanna, that much I'm certain of. The writer took a realistic yet elaborate situation and crammed it with his pre-determined judgement/ending regardless of whether it flowed correctly with the characters. I couldn't make it past half-way with Spartan due to shoddy dialogue, implausibility in gaining information and generally being uninteresting, it was like a euro-version of a Law and Order episode and I didn't care for any of the characters. I'm a fan of Val Kilmer but his performance was just off and robotic, Agent Coulson's appearance didn't help matters. I thought Heist was okay but forgettable which was typical of heist films during that brief surge in the early 00's. I didn't care for the characters and every reveal felt predictably expected.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:08 am 
 

DeathRiderDoom wrote:
though this may be taken the wrong way - it seems kinda like nothing more than a "chick flick" masquerading as a nuanced, subtle drama film.

Well, I watched Lost in Translation with my girlfriend and she hated it even more than I did, so make of that what you will.

darkeningday wrote:
Heist wasn't great. It was way better than The Score, but that says pretty much nothing as The Score was garbage. Both films existences were all but negated by the amazing Spanish thriller Nine Queens that pulled off everything either film wanted to do an entire year before they were released. I'd say Heist may be the least interesting thing Mamet has ever made.

I'd say Heist was a fair bit better than that. Not great, but occupying a comfortable middle ground between something more weighty, like The Usual Suspects, and something that's all style and no substance, like the Ocean's Eleven remake. The plot is riddled with a fairly clever but also fairly uninteresting and repetitive series of twists, but the real meat of the film comes from two things: the memorable performances of Gene Hackman, Danny DeVito, and a few others, and the hilarious, snappy dialog. "Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money!" So yeah, definitely not the definitive heist movie, but a solid entry.
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Vipunen
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:58 am 
 

Enjoyed Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and Stalker immensely when I watched them some years ago. Are his other efforts worth the time?

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Expedience
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:08 am 
 

Vipunen wrote:
Enjoyed Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and Stalker immensely when I watched them some years ago. Are his other efforts worth the time?


Yes. All of them.

FasterDisaster wrote:
Star Trek and Star Trek: Into Darkness are fucking stupid.


They are, aren't they? I'd take the dull, predictable Trek of 7-9 over the utter embarrassment of the last 2 films any day.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:20 am 
 

Into Darkness could have just been released in a white package saying nothing but "Generic Modern Movie."
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By_Inheritance
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:41 am 
 

Vipunen wrote:
Enjoyed Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and Stalker immensely when I watched them some years ago. Are his other efforts worth the time?

He's one of the most consistently brilliant filmmakers. Solaris is a personally favourite of mine but you can't go wrong with him really.
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:59 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Into Darkness could have just been released in a white package saying nothing but "Generic Modern Movie."


Yeah but that would do a disservice to other generic modern movies which were actually decent, like Cloud Atlas or even Avatar. Into Darkness was just awful in every way imaginable, pissing on everything that was good about Star Trek.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:05 pm 
 

Ah come now, Into Darkness was kinda bland and didn't have much exciting about it, but it wasn't a fucking Hallmark card made into a 3 hour movie like Cloud Atlas. :p
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:45 pm 
 

But I like Hallmark cards. They have a point to them, respect their heritage, and they make sense. You would think Abrams could get at least one of those right.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:24 pm 
 

I thought Star Trek '09 was the worst Trek film since the fifth, but what the hell was wrong with Into Darkness? I felt it did a great job of incorporating iconic moments from every Trek series--even the much-maligned Enterprise--into a convoluted but totally entertaining whole. A love-letter it was not, but a briskly paced, highly accessible sci-fi action film that didn't totally throw the existing fan base under the bus it absolutely was. Also, Peter Weller and Benedict Cumberbatch turned in the best villain performances in the history of Star Trek, hands fucking down. Brilliant casting decisions.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:29 pm 
 

I agree with *most* of what darkeningday just said. My only real gripe with the movie is that Cumberbatch didn't really get enough screen time, and they could've done more to flesh out some sort of specific plan of his rather than "well he's an evil badass so if he gets his shit together he'll probably do...I dunno, some evil shit most likely." I liked the first one about as much, since a lot of the big setpiece scenes were a little better than Into Darkness but the villain was much shittier.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:31 pm 
 

Cumberbatch did a great job acting, but I thought the character was incredibly boring and lame - really weak Hannibal Lecter-style "taunting from behind the wall" sort of thing at one point, then just an overly dramatic villain at others. He sold it quite well but I wasn't really grabbed by the writing or character there. The movie was solid overall, but I just think that was my thing with it...I was never grabbed or moved by it in any way. Just kinda average to me.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:36 pm 
 

Eric Bana was a really shitty bad guy, he was basically there because they needed one since the first movie is only about Kirk and Spock anyway. Into Darkness was pretty damn entertaining and comparing it to Avatar is making me nauseous. It's basically the best action sci fi movie you can have in 2013
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:39 pm 
 

Eric Bana is a shitty everything. And Tony, Pacific Rim came out this year, so Into Darkness can't be the best action/sci fi of the year. :p
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:40 pm 
 

Nah, Into Darkness has an actual plot, Emp.
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:45 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I thought Star Trek '09 was the worst Trek film since the fifth, but what the hell was wrong with Into Darkness? I felt it did a great job of incorporating iconic moments from every Trek series--even the much-maligned Enterprise--into a convoluted but totally entertaining whole. A love-letter it was not, but a briskly paced, highly accessible sci-fi action film that didn't totally throw the existing fan base under the bus it absolutely was. Also, Peter Weller and Benedict Cumberbatch turned in the best villain performances in the history of Star Trek, hands fucking down. Brilliant casting decisions.


The problem is, Trek isn't sci-fi action. It's supposed to be more than that. Into Darkness gives us fuck all insight into the politics, science and morality of the future, so it's not even sci-fi. Yeah, as an independent action film it's "solid" but it even fucks that up by muddling up a seemingly simple plot so that I couldn't even follow why things were happening. I only realised later that things were made to happen because they looked cool, like ornaments on a christmas tree, and I was stupid to try and make some sort of sense of the plot like the earlier Trek films asked us to do. Worst ST movie by far.

Also, no way is Cumberbatch's Khan better than Montalban's. But I can't blame the actor for that.


Last edited by Expedience on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:46 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Nah, Into Darkness has an actual plot, Emp.


It has more plot, sure. But in terms of effectiveness as a film and impact left on me as an audience, I liked Pacific Rim better.

Rashomon - 5/5

An excellent film and a deserved classic. This tale of a murder told by four different people is pulled off with deliberate pacing and actors who sell their roles with aplomb and theatricality. The story is fairly simple - a man is found dead in the woods and people go to court to testify their versions of what happened. But it slowly unwinds and becomes more complex as each story, while sharing the same basic set-up, differs quite drastically. You see each character's version of the story and you learn about them as characters, what makes them tick and what their strengths and flaws and overall personalities are. It's quite a slow-burner and the full effect does not set in until you've seen all four stories, and some of the best scenes are actually not flashbacks, but the "wraparound" segments with the guys going over everything in the temple while it rains. The movie tells about humanity's tendency to bend the truth and lie to serve their own needs, and points out that nobody is really 100% right or wrong - each person's tale has elements of truth in it blended with elements of that person's particular fantasy or version of reality. As a film this is marvelously complete and well done. I was left feeling satisfied after it was over, and I wouldn't have liked it to be a minute shorter or longer than it was. For a character study and just a crime film, this is impeccable - highly recommended.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:48 pm 
 

Expedience, sorry, but John_Sunlight already beat you to the "worst Star Trek ever" Comic Book Guy-isms. Funny joke, though!
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:52 pm 
 

Also, claiming something is superior because "it delves into politics and morality!" is entirely fallacious when you realize that shit like this does just that while being irredeemably terrible the entire time.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:59 pm 
 

Oh for God's sake, all of the Next Generation films with the exception of Insurrection were pure, unadulterated fluff. Star Trek: First Contact, which is widely regarded as one of the best Star Trek films, is a single-note action film from stem to stern; Nemesis (which is correctly regarded as one of the worst) was as well. Star Trek: Generations was just an exercise in fan service; there was absolutely no insight into politics or science with only a very simplistic view of "human morality" even hinted at; the movie was about Picard and Kirk beating up Malcolm McDowell together and absolutely nothing more.

Regardless, Star Trek is and always will be better on the small screen (although The Undiscovered Country definitely did prove that they can make a damn good Trek movie.)
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:06 pm 
 

Oh, maybe I should contribute to the thread for once.

I saw Hell Baby earlier today. Basically it's Scary Movie-ish horror parody except done by the dudes behind Reno 911 so it was actually funny much of the time. Some of the jokes fell pretty flat but others were pretty funny (most of the scenes with the two Vatican priests were pretty good). There was also a really gratuitous nude scene with Riki Lindhome that just seemed regular gratuitous at first but actually got better as it went on because it was just so damn awkward. Also, Michael Ian Black.
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:18 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Oh for God's sake, all of the Next Generation films with the exception of Insurrection were pure, unadulterated fluff. Star Trek: First Contact, which is widely regarded as one of the best Star Trek films, is a single-note action film from stem to stern; Nemesis (which is correctly regarded as one of the worst) was as well. Star Trek: Generations was just an exercise in fan service; there was absolutely no insight into politics or science with only a very simplistic view of "human morality" even hinted at; the movie was about Picard and Kirk beating up Malcolm McDowell together and absolutely nothing more.

Regardless, Star Trek is and always will be better on the small screen (although The Undiscovered Country definitely did prove that they can make a damn good Trek movie.)


The TNG films were fluff but they gave you something to consider, at least. I don't ask much of my Sci-fi: if it asks "what if?" and lets us think about it, I'm happy. So there was the Nexus at the centre of Generations, what if something like that existed and what would you do? Insurrection had the theme about interfering with developing civilizations. Those were questions I actually considered while watching, making the fluff watchable. Into Darkness didn't have any of that, it was just a mash-up of hyperactive babbling and fighting strategically designed that way to prevent any time for thought to materialize in the viewer's head.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:55 pm 
 

"What if?" is just one of many things sci-fi can be about. If you seriously can't enjoy sci-fi if it doesn't make you think about those questions, you're seriously limiting yourself.

darkeningday wrote:
I thought Star Trek '09 was the worst Trek film since the fifth

Have you actually sat through Star Trek: Nemesis? Star Trek '09 was brainless fluff, but it was entertaining and fast-paced. Nemesis was old actors trying and failing to make a movie like that, with utterly unnecessary grimdark bullshit thrown in there. Plus, it does it all with such ridiculous seriousness that I couldn't even enjoy it as a 'so bad it's good' movie. It was just painful.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:25 am 
 

I've seen every TNG film at least ten times... :oh shit:

While I liked Nemesis when I was 15 I definitely think it's pretty damn awful today; screenwriter John Logan is perennially horrible (with the exception of Rango, which I attribute more to Gore Verbinski) and action editor (and openly non-Trek fan) Stuart Baird was about as salient a directing choice as getting Jack Kevorkian to oversee your appendectomy. STILL, I thought it was better (if only just) than '09 because it's still the cast I grew up with and Tom Hardy = :love: . And I legitimately did like the verbal sparring between Picard and Fake Picard quite a bit. The action bits with the blurry slo-mo sections were definitely the low points of the Star Trek film series, though.

I think what's most interesting about both films is that '09 has a very fucking similar plot to Nemesis, which was an utterly bizarre creative choice for a reboot.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:26 am 
 

Right, but the thing is Nemesis focuses on its shitty, shitty plot, while in Star Trek '09 you can basically forget about it other than "there's some bad guy with a ship," and focus on the characters, the sets, the exciting direction, etc. I mean, I'll absolutely agree with you that it was dust off a dog turd compared to Star Trek 6, but as far as modern Treks go, '09 beats all the rest (except maybe Into Darkness, which I haven't seen yet). The TNG Treks were basically square-peg-round-hole x1000, trying to make these intellectual space pacifists into action heroes. Trek '09 is at least honest.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:45 am 
 

I dunno man, the cop chase? The bar fight? Zoe Saldana's non-acting? Eric Bana's utterance of "Kirk" as a parody (reference?) to the iconic "Khhhhaaaaaannnn!" The fact it had FUCKING THOR in it???

All these things just kinda pushed it over the edge of tolerable for me. It's not even that I thought it was a bad Star Trek movie; I just found it a below-average buddy action movie, of which there are already enough to fill a landfill on Qo'noS. I mean yeah it had cool iPod architecture and flashy CGI, but the fight choreography was just barely above serviceable and there weren't really even any flashy space battles which was a damn shame for the kind of money they were working with. Into Darkness rectified most of these problems and transformed the bleh '09 blueprint into a pretty damn enjoyable popcorn flick. You should definitely see it and I hope you let us/me know what you think of it when you do.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:07 am 
 

I tried watching Lords of Salem and it only contributed to 2013 being a year of really shitty horror movies.
Also watched I spit on your grave 2 and while it's pretty much the same thing, the revenge kills were brutal.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:18 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I dunno man, the cop chase? The bar fight? Zoe Saldana's non-acting? Eric Bana's utterance of "Kirk" as a parody (reference?) to the iconic "Khhhhaaaaaannnn!" The fact it had FUCKING THOR in it???

Well sure, I could point out plenty of other faults too (like how utterly silly looking the big bad spaceship was - THAT is a mining vessel? REALLY? If they wanted to make it so ludicrously threatening, why didn't they just make it a warship from the get-go?) but again, my point wasn't so much about how good JJTrek was, but how bad Action TNG was. I seriously wish I could erase them from existence and just have the TNG crew's careers end with All Good Things, one of the greatest Trek 2-parters.
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:24 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
"What if?" is just one of many things sci-fi can be about. If you seriously can't enjoy sci-fi if it doesn't make you think about those questions, you're seriously limiting yourself.


Educate me then. What else can sci-fi be about than the impact of future technology on our lives? If that's limited then so be it but at least it's not what Abrams thinks sci-fi is, which is funny looking aliens and cool looking ships and action action action.

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darkeningday wrote:
I thought Star Trek '09 was the worst Trek film since the fifth

Have you actually sat through Star Trek: Nemesis? Star Trek '09 was brainless fluff, but it was entertaining and fast-paced. Nemesis was old actors trying and failing to make a movie like that, with utterly unnecessary grimdark bullshit thrown in there. Plus, it does it all with such ridiculous seriousness that I couldn't even enjoy it as a 'so bad it's good' movie. It was just painful.


Totally agree. Trek 09 beats Nemesis, but it works only as a one-off prequel. Watch Into Darkness and then judge the reboot as a whole.

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