I never thought I'd see the day when someone defends Illud Divinum Insanus.

There are a couple of decent songs on it, but Existo Vulgore and Nevermore are almost the exact same song.

this is getting way off topic now, if you wanna discuss Illud with me you might as well send me a message

After more listens, it's done the opposite of growing on me. Both Heartwork and Necroticism are better albums (ESPECIALLY Necroticism). It's better than Swansong, but few things aren't. What I can make out of the lyrics is ALMOST Swansong levels of retarded though. They really aren't good. Granulating Satanic Mills is the highlight by far, and I wish they'd just done an entire album of that. Yeah, it would have been Heartwork II, but it would have been better than all of the "thrashy, not even a little catchy, and forgettable death metal". The solos come and go, and the production makes the low string chugging sound exactly the same as the bass drum. Honestly, I doubt I'll feel compelled to listen to it in a week, and I love Carcass.

I can just about get by listening to Nevermore and Blades For Baal, but the rest physically hurts me. Whatever song it is that has the "kill a cop killa killa killa cop" line in it is so awful Marilyn Manson wouldn't have touched it.

It has nothing to do with "Kill a cop". It's "Killer cult".

Good album. I like it when bands risk new stuff. I've been listening to MA for 22 years and I haven't been dissapointed so far!

That's the thing, it's not really new. New for them maybe, but bands were doing that sort of crap in the early 2000s.

I agree with those who like Illud Divinum Insanus.

Just skipping the dance tracks and have brilliant and brutal Morbid Angel sound.
I'm into tracks like Blades For Baal, Nevermore, Existo Vulgore or I Am Morbid and this is what I want from Morbid Angel.

I see no reason to hate an album just because there are some dub/dance songs. Skipping these and everything it's ok.

Anyway, I listened to (2013) Carcass - Surgical Steel twice since it leaked and don't really feel the need to do it more.
Not a good sign.

I take it you're a huge Manowar and Into The Pandemonium fan then?

Ahahah nope, I simply don't like Celtic Frost at all and the only Manowar album I listen frequently is 'Kings of Metal'.

Yep, that's a track-skipper of an album all right.

And please mate, how tracks you skip?

Let me just add a bit more carnage to the off-topic discussion. People buy albums to then have some tracks skipped?! Da fuck?!

Beauty Meets Beast is a pretty decent track as well, way better than I am Morbid. It has a slight Gateways to Annihilation feeling that I like.

For what it is, Destructos is also decent. It could have been a Rammstein track. The only offensive tracks are Radikult and Too Extreme and the former features a decent mid section/solo.

Existo and Nevermore are pure Domination/Covenant onslaught. Blades sounds different but it's also the most brutal track of the album. Those tracks like simply destroy.

I would rate it like 65-70% with ease.

Regarding Carcass: the decent tracks have 'aged' well while the shitty ones feels worse. it's a weird album.

I don't think you don't have in your collection no one album that has at least one song you don't like it or it's a filler.

Why I don't buy an album of my death metal favorite band? Just for few tracks are dub/dance/experimental? And the remnant death tracks of the album? I can't enjoy?

I'm waiting for the reunion with David Vincent from 1995, and will not be three or four experimental tracks don't make me enjoy the return of Morbid Angel.

'Blades For Baal' or 'Existo Vulgorè' destroys 95% of modern death metal band, and if you don't believe this, well, you have to see a Morbid Angel live shows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsPZ55N ... 9r&index=5

...into the pit

/End of trasmission and OT

Why is the Carcass thread degenerating into a Morbid Angel thread?

I guess we just have a different approach to music then. I don't own albums with half good/half filler simply because that in my book isn't a very good album. I don't really care about the name stamped on the front cover, the songs have to be consistently good throughout the entire album for me to appreciate it. Sure I'll prefer some songs to others, but buying an album knowing that I actively dislike part of it? Not going to happen, sorry.

I've seen MA live, they're great. And I actually enjoyed "Blades For Baal", too bad it was the only decent song of the entire album! And you're seriously delusional if you really think that "'Existo Vulgoré' destroys 95% of modern death metal band", I mean... whatever tickles your fancy dude. Still, personal tastes and all that right?!

To take this in the right direction however, let me talk about Surgical Steel. It feels to me like an album that has a bit of their last three, although not in equal amounts of course. It's mainly a Heartwork base with a few influences of Necroticism in the blunt aggression and some extra flair, with a sprinkle of Swansong's bluesy taste for melody. Nothing wrong with that, and yet the album seems to grow stale to me. Sure some songs are pretty good, but others feel so underwhelming! And to take the aforementioned argument into the Carcass discussion, I don't think I'll buy this album if the next spins confirm to me this feeling that it's Carcass "by the book". It's the same thing with the new Autopsy really, it's not that it isn't their sound or that it's a bad album. No, they're actually decent. They just don't seem to add anything to both band's past roster, nor are they anywhere near memorable.

But again, tastes and all that.

Should we continue this on-topic from now on?!

I've been enjoying it more with every listen. Even the song I didn't like initially, 316 L Grade Surgical Steel, is now one of my favorites on the album. I still don't really like how the main riff is so "rockin" but the song flows so well between hard rock and grind.

@androdion

Right mate, just different taste

About new Carcass, your description is fitting to. However I'm excited about it cause it is what I'm expect from Carcass in 2013.
Same thing about new Autopsy, that I consider 'best death album of 2013'.

dont be an asshole, no one likes an asshole

And I don't too. I was just reminding people about the off topic and trying to add something on topic with my comment. Insult?!? Do you understand it now?

Going back to Carcass, I have to say that I have mixed feelings about the new album. On the one hand, I definitely like it. It's enjoyable, it's nicely melodic, and certainly depicts the middle ground between Necroticism and Heartwork that they promised, yet..... I can't help but feel that the album doesn't live up to its potential. Jeff and Bill sound like they're holding back, and at times, it's too safe for me to stomach. I don't know if I'll end up buying this or not.

I'm rather disappointed. The sound is sterile, the songs are pretty lame even or especially during the fast blastbeat sections, the solos are forgettable. I was hoping that when Captive Bolt Pistol was released it would be one of the worse songs instead it's a perfect representation of the album as a whole. An album like this is what happens when you lose your edge and mellow out a bit too much.

I dunno about that. Some of the shit on here, like Thrasher's Abattoir or The Master Butcher's Apron, is faster and heavier than anything past their grind period. To say they mellowed out or lost their edge isn't true if you ask me.

Oh I'm sorry I must have misunderstood. I guess that particular picture you chose mislead me (speaking of which, what's up with that thing anyway?). Apologies.

Not sure I get the consensus here that Heartwork is somehow NOT brutally heavy, kick-ass and riff-driven metal like no other melodeath around. Is this somehow supposed to sound "mellowed out" or somehow not like totally heavy as fuck, killer riff-driven metal? I get digging the DM period more, but pretending that Heartwork was wussed out or somehow "mellow" just seems odd to me.

Halfway through the new album and it's pretty cool, got some nice riffs and what not here. Sounds like a fitting tribute to the classic sound, with notably more Heartwork influence than anything else really. Only the somewhat elaborate instrumental sections on like two or three songs seems to recall anything older than Heartwork.

Well, I can only speak for myself on this. I do like Heartwork very much, but to be perfectly honest it does sound like a wussed out mellowed version of Necroticism. You know, pick the ideas of the last album and streamline them to be less complex, while at the same time turning the focus away from the engaging riff after riff structure into a more simple hook based approach that prefers melody over brutality. It's a perfectly good album on itself and it does have some slashes of bluntness, but on the general picture it's clearly not on the level of sonic brutality that is Necroticism.

And let's face it, the "brutality factor" decreased incrementally with each Carcass album up to Swansong. That's pretty much a fact.

Brutal in a death metal sense, yeah. But I don't really think I'd call it a step down in terms of intensity really. The stuff before Heartwork had more atmosphere, and more of a thematic tie - they were albums about grisly, humorously insane surgery practices, and they had a real surreal horror sort of feel to them that added to the brutality of the riffs. So I wouldn't call anyone out for thinking those albums had more extremity and brutality to them. However as a primarily traditional metal fan, I headbang a lot harder to Heartwork - the huge, pounding rhythms and that monstrous, rock-hard, clinical tone accent the already cool riffs and make it into a juggernaut. I think it's a killer album in that style and has an intensity all its own kind, even if it's not as brutal in a death metal sense or aesthetically.

But I haven't been listening to the band for long, so I'm just calling it as I see it - as a fan of more traditionally styled metal.

Yeah Emp, I agree with your reasoning, which is spot on actually. It goes with what I said though, that the emphasis on Heartwork is other than on Necroticism. I can definitely see why someone with a traditional metal background would enjoy Heartwork the most out of their whole catalogue, and in that sense I believe you'll also enjoy Surgical Steel very much. Now, from a death metal point of view you can in fact see where the criticism stems from, can't you?! I think, not to say I know, that many fans of the band just didn't enjoy their decline in brutality (not talking about intensity though).

Maybe. That sounds like the people who think Iron Maiden sucks because it doesn't sound like DM though. But that's just my own pet peeve...yeah I can see why people don't like it as much, even if I disagree. I remember before I heard Heartwork, the stuff people said about it here made me think it'd be some kind of In Flames/Dark Tranquillity crap though; totally off-base with what I actually heard.

I wouldn't say Heartwork is exactly my favorite, as I like Necroticism about as well for very different reasons.

I finished the album. The last song struck me as a bit too long, but everything else was pretty good. If it had the same production as Heartwork it'd probably be at least a half-point better, but that's neither here nor there.

People always have a gnarling tendency to over exaggerate when it comes to "selling/wussing out", but that's just normal in metal circles I guess. One always has to take a peek to see if things are really as people say they are. Not to say that sometimes they aren't, but you get where I'm going with this.

It's actually hard to favour one Carcass album over another because each of them offers such a different array of elements and concepts. I love Symphonies for its groovy grind, Necroticism for its twisted quasi-technical riff fest, and Heartwork for its hook driven melodic approach with an intense flair. All in all they're very different albums with just a few defining lines that resemble one another, like Bill's guitar tone/style and Jeff's growling snarl. I personally would rank Necroticism above all the rest, but then again I'm a sucker for that approach in DM. It goes well with early Gorguts, Brutality, Disincarnate and all that stuff that rocks my boat. But that's just me, the death metal fan.

In the end, Carcass was all about brutality even in an abrasive way, which was significantly lost on Heartwork. People more into more melodic stuff ( heavy, melodeath, even power metal) will like HW More since it has many of those traits incorporated into the mix. More trad death metal fans will like Necroticism and the older stuff more. I think Necro is the best the band did but Reek is also great. Surgical comes as a better HW, with tons of more balls IMO.

And what about Swansong ?

I don't remember why I didn't buy Swansong when it came out. I had been a huge fan from Necrotisicm onwards, and had dug the older stuff too. I even had the Tools of the Trade EP. Swansong came out hardly a year after Heartwork, which as I said, liked. But for reasons I don't remember, I snubbed Swansong.

Then a few years later Napster came along and I decided to download Swansong. I got only a few songs, not the whole album, and listened to them with crappy quality computer speakers. After a few more years I got the CD and was able to listen to the real thing with decent equipment. Result ? Well, definitely a let down, but for someone who didn't mind songs like "No Love Lost" and others off Heartwork with similar.. elements, well, it wasn't that much of a stretch. I give Swansong a spin once in a while, and I organized all the outtakes in a different medium, and also listen to them once in a while.

I don't hate those songs, but I hardly ever crave any of them.. that's all. Whereas, there are times I really feel like listening to Reek or any other album.

It's not too far off, but HW is better than this one. More focused sound, better written songs. But they're both good either way so eh, not much to argue about.

Swansong I enjoy for what it is, but it already shows little connection to their early stuff. Death'n'roll is a really small thing, and to be honest Swansong is one of two albums I listen to within that style, the other being quite obviously Wolverine Blues. But whereas WB has bigger balls than many DM albums Swansong is a bit too cheeky I guess. I like the album and I can enjoy it every once in a while, but much like you say I don't crave it. I can live with it but it's hardly the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Carcass. You'll notice that I also left ROP out of my statement, and undertaking the risk of a public beating... I find that album to be pretty much unlistenable. I know it's extremely influential and all that, I really do! But I just can't listen to it, it does absolutely nothing for me. Weird hun?!

Huh, what I hear a lot of in Heartwork is thrash. I mean everyone's already pointed out the similarity between teh title track and "Creator of the Lie", but there are plenty of other reminiscences, too..."Death Certificate" for example. I've gone back and forth on heartwork over the years and right now it's sounding pretty good to me. "No Love Lost" is still a shite song though..what a boring riff. Anyway, the reason many people disparage Heartwork seems simple and obvious to me; it has nothing to do with melody, which, after all, Necroticism has in abundance..it's the fact that the band went from writing winding, linear songs of seven minutes in length and a multitude of riffs and variations to pieces that focus on a verse/chorus structure, two or three killer riffs/hooks, a solo section and tunes that never exceed the 5 minute mark. Is that a sellout? It's certainly more accessible and makes the individual songs stand out more. That isn't inherently a negative trait though.

Basically, Heartwork is the extreme metal Black Album.

That doesn't make it bad though, contrary to what many would say. Streamlining the sound =/= shitty.

It doesn't; it works well for some bands and not so well for others, of course. I think Carcass did all right, even though I do prefer necroticism myself...

No problem, man! I use to use this pic in other forums just to note something that has been already mentioned. Sorry for the confusion.




I agree.


I don't.


What about (1998) Gorefest- Chapter 13?