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angel_of_metal
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:47 am
Posts: 4
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:34 am 
 

*gingerly raises hand*

One of the things that always draws me to metal is that it is a genre of music, or even more than just music for many (myself included), that truly doesn't care who or what you are. It's just there regardless, which certainly helped me way back when when I was figuring things out

Am happy to answer any serious questions people might have (I'm female to male if it helps) but to be honest it's really not a big deal nor a big part of who I am. Those that know me know exactly that along with a few other things, Metal plays a far bigger role in my life, that what is or is not in the contents of my trousers.

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drterror666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:49 pm
Posts: 70
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:39 am 
 

Seriously, who actually cares? If the music is good, that's good enough for me.

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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8558
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:44 am 
 

drterror666 wrote:
Seriously, who actually cares? If the music is good, that's good enough for me.

You didn't actually even bother to read what the thread is all about, or to see what the discussion has covered so far? Right. Fuck off this thread, will you.

This is a case of thread necromancy, angel_of_metal, and usually I'd just lock this, but seeing that you have an exceptional personal angle to this, I'll let this stay open. Quality discussion only, people.
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drterror666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:49 pm
Posts: 70
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:54 am 
 

Bloody charming! I just saw the thread appear and thought I'd add my view, which I couldn't see a problem with.

Seriously, some people...

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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8558
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:50 am 
 

drterror666 wrote:
Bloody charming! I just saw the thread appear and thought I'd add my view, which I couldn't see a problem with.

Well, maybe there's a lesson to learn here. One of them being "read the discussion before adding your immensely valuable contribution to a thread where Napero tells everybody to behave especially well in the second post of the whole fucking bazaar", and another one being "do not post on a thread you've been told to leave".

drterror666 wrote:
Seriously, some people...

Post once more and whine, and you can consider that somewhere else for a week or two. In the future, post your inane stuff on the FFA until you eventually and unavoidably get banned, and stay off serious threads unless you can be arsed to read what the thread contains.

Back to the business of having a mature discussion, you young fucks. No one else turns into an uppity bitch here, regardless of gender identities, OK?
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Gypaetus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:03 pm
Posts: 470
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:33 pm 
 

angel_of_metal wrote:
*gingerly raises hand*

Am happy to answer any serious questions people might have (I'm female to male if it helps) but to be honest it's really not a big deal nor a big part of who I am. Those that know me know exactly that along with a few other things, Metal plays a far bigger role in my life, that what is or is not in the contents of my trousers.


I have a question, if you don't mind (as this thread's been resurrected and all). I've always wondered as to how having a specific 'gender identity' works, and what it's like to feel like you should be a 'different' gender to what you are biologically. Like a few people that have posted in this thread, it seems, I've always felt like myself, and have never really given a second thought to whether I feel like a certain gender or not. It's a really alien concept to me, and it would be great if you could shed some light on it.

Edit: I can't write properly at 5am, sorry.
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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2366
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:21 am 
 

Gypaetus wrote:
I have a question, if you don't mind (as this thread's been resurrected and all). I've always wondered as to how having a specific 'gender identity' works, and what it's like to feel like you should be a 'different' gender to what you are biologically. Like a few people that have posted in this thread, it seems, I've always felt like myself, and have never really given a second thought to whether I feel like a certain gender or not. It's a really alien concept to me, and it would be great if you could shed some light on it.

Edit: I can't write properly at 5am, sorry.

I'm cis and my answer can't really replace the experiences and opinions of a trans* person, but I'd imagine it's basically like feeling that your default gender (as determined by biological sex) doesn't complement your inner being, personality, traits, and perception of self. I can sort of relate to an extent, because when I was younger (in my early teens) I had a period where I felt very uncomfortable with being expected to act masculine and sensed my personality naturally drifting towards femininity, but I simultaneously felt locked in a position where I couldn't properly express myself in that manner because society expected me to be male and act accordingly. I often wished I was female, or that I could at least pass off as one, because at least then I wouldn't have to combat my own increasingly masculine physical appearance and society's expectations of me as a male. It was distressing, like looking in the mirror and feeling that I wasn't the person I wanted to see. It was like distress over the unfulfilled state of the traits of my inner self that I could not change, sort of like a person saying "I wish I weren't a compulsive liar" or "I wish I were friendlier", but with gender instead of personality.

The sensation passed from me years ago, and I'm at the point now where I act masculine and feminine to varying degrees but neither disorients me enough to shatter my sense of self. I'd wager a guess that being transgender is something like that, except that gender plays a much larger role in transgender people's lives and so the amount of physical/psychological dissonance is much larger and starts to become seriously disruptive to that person's life. I imagine it's a concept that makes much, much more sense if you are in the mindset of such a person, since you and I probably take for granted a lot of conveniences that are withheld from trans* people.

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drterror666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:49 pm
Posts: 70
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:58 am 
 

Is it possible that we can have a 'male' body, but a 'female' consciousness, and vice versa? The pairings could either complement each other e.g. being a romantic, emotional male, or totally at odds with each other (for want of another way of saying it) e.g. a female who desperately wants to become a male because that's what s/he feels is correct.

The problem with society is that our understanding of gender is way too fixed and conservative, and the fact is that we're born a certain way and that's it. There definitely should be more acceptence of transgender people in this world, because that's just the way people are.

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HellishHound
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:37 am
Posts: 370
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:34 am 
 

I'm not a trans* person but I am bisexual and I fully support and accept trans* people in the metal world and outside of the metal world. I've always wanted to start a LGBT metalhead thread here because the amount of shit I get for being a metalhead who happens to like dudes is unbelievable. And Ive wanted to hear other LGBT metalheads stories.
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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2366
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:12 pm 
 

HellishHound wrote:
I'm not a trans* person but I am bisexual and I fully support and accept trans* people in the metal world and outside of the metal world. I've always wanted to start a LGBT metalhead thread here because the amount of shit I get for being a metalhead who happens to like dudes is unbelievable. And Ive wanted to hear other LGBT metalheads stories.

I've actually found the metal community to be extremely open-minded and friendly towards LGBT topics. I don't think your being a metalhead has anything to do with the vitriol directed towards you, you're probably just surrounded by shitty people.

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HellishHound
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:37 am
Posts: 370
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:22 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
HellishHound wrote:
I'm not a trans* person but I am bisexual and I fully support and accept trans* people in the metal world and outside of the metal world. I've always wanted to start a LGBT metalhead thread here because the amount of shit I get for being a metalhead who happens to like dudes is unbelievable. And Ive wanted to hear other LGBT metalheads stories.

I've actually found the metal community to be extremely open-minded and friendly towards LGBT topics. I don't think your being a metalhead has anything to do with the vitriol directed towards you, you're probably just surrounded by shitty people.


I didn't mean that I think it's because I'm gay and a metalhead, simply because I'm gay. And mostly it's only happened when I've run into those far-right metallers, especially nsbm guys. Like that one guy from egypt that was floating around here a while back. But you're right, I am surrounded by shitty people haha
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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:04 pm 
 

Metalheads are pretty homophobic on the average.

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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2366
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:12 pm 
 

Marag wrote:
Metalheads are pretty homophobic on the average.

Not from my experience... maybe in the more radically-fueled sects of black metal, as HellishHound implied, or those from countries where homosexuality is demonized, but everyone else I've encountered has either not cared one way or the other, or has been in support of LGBT rights. *shrug* Maybe I've just been around the wrong people. :lol:

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4631
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:16 pm 
 

I don't know any homophobic metalheads in person either. I like to think that there's a "live and let live" mentality in the metal community, because historically speaking, being a metalhead also means being stigmatized and misunderstood by mainstream society. That's part of our identity, even if nowadays acceptance towards metal as a legitimate subculture has grown a great deal.
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:22 pm 
 

I've generally been under the impression that some metalheads are close-minded (in every existing way) idiots, but the majority is pretty open and tolerant. It sort of makes sense that if you belong to a group which is often seen as weird and alien by many people, you understand other people who may be seen in the same way.
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drterror666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:49 pm
Posts: 70
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:19 am 
 

I like to think that the metal minded community would be more open minded due to the fact that we're more accepting of art and other assorted weirdness. But, there are people out there into metal who just have this myopic vision of the world and no amount of convincing will change them. I think most of the metal community is more accepting of the whole LGBT thing.

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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 845
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:10 am 
 

Marag wrote:
Metalheads are pretty homophobic on the average.

Care to share any sources outside that recent Megadeth story?
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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2898
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:00 am 
 

in my experience metalheads are either very acceptive and just dont care, or they are homophobes. There are not many really in between. Although my experience its mostly the first.

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Meconium
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 1:09 pm
Posts: 38
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:46 am 
 

I think metalheads can be accepting, tolerant, or homophobic, largely correlated by other individual factors (familial background, education level maybe, geographic region, etc).

In my personal experiences I have encountered a fair amount of homophobia in metalheads. Some were more along the lines of neo-nazis, some were uncomfortable with women/femininity or being perceived as feminine which I think translates into discomfort with homosexuality and trans* folks. Granted, I think a lot of people with those traits also tended to overlap with just being shitty people. Nowadays I try to find friends who have common values and beliefs, instead of a similar taste in music, because that's what I find really important in my relationships. (It'd be real nice if I could find metalheads who also share my values in my area, but that's a work in progress.)

So I guess what I'm maybe trying to say is that metal can attract intolerant people, as opposed to metal itself being intolerant. I think a lot of metal is really transgressive and people who identify as living on social or cultural "fringes" might connect with that. I did.

I've had an experience similar to MutantClannFear's, where I went through a period of time struggling with my gender identity because I wasn't "feminine" enough. It's part of what drew me to metal; the aggression and traditionally masculine qualities that are often exalted through metal (strength, individualism, aggression, etc) resonate with me. I thought I must be trans* because I didn't feel comfortable occupying normative conceptualizations of gender. As I got older I realized that I wasn't trans*, but still a little "weird" in my gender identity and expression. A few years ago I learned about the concept of gender-queer and, after a lot of reading and thinking, have grasped "queer" as a label that fits less badly than any others. It's a catch-all term that encompasses both my gender identity and my sexual orientation, both of which can't be fully described without a lot of explaining that I'm often not interested in providing. :lol:

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Marag
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Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:31 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
Marag wrote:
Metalheads are pretty homophobic on the average.

Care to share any sources outside that recent Megadeth story?

Source: My interaction with other metalheads. Sadly I can't upload memories and such on the internet.
Might not be accurate of the whole but the attitudes I have encountered are either "whatever" or "kill all the fucking subhuman faggots"

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dystopia4
Thumbman

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 3568
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:36 pm 
 

I get the whole thrash'n'beer stereotype which would probably generally be the type of person who would have homophobic attitudes, but in my experiences metalheads aren't really more or less homophobic than the general population.
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Gypaetus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:03 pm
Posts: 470
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:14 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
The sensation passed from me years ago, and I'm at the point now where I act masculine and feminine to varying degrees but neither disorients me enough to shatter my sense of self. I'd wager a guess that being transgender is something like that, except that gender plays a much larger role in transgender people's lives and so the amount of physical/psychological dissonance is much larger and starts to become seriously disruptive to that person's life. I imagine it's a concept that makes much, much more sense if you are in the mindset of such a person, since you and I probably take for granted a lot of conveniences that are withheld from trans* people.


Thanks for the response. It doesn't make much sense to me, but that's more my fault than yours. It's something that you'd have to experience to 'get' I suppose. I truly just don't understand the concept of feeling like a particular gender /scratches head. I feel like myself, which at the moment is like a retard :lol:

Also, random question: why is everyone typing trans as trans*?

Meconium wrote:
As I got older I realized that I wasn't trans*, but still a little "weird" in my gender identity and expression. A few years ago I learned about the concept of gender-queer and, after a lot of reading and thinking, have grasped "queer" as a label that fits less badly than any others. It's a catch-all term that encompasses both my gender identity and my sexual orientation, both of which can't be fully described without a lot of explaining that I'm often not interested in providing. :lol:


No offense, but the 'gender-queer' label confuses me thoroughly. I've read about gender-queer and 'queer' as a sexual orientation, and... yeah, still thoroughly confused as to how that works. I won't pry though, if you're happy labeling yourself as that it's all good :thumbsup:
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7957
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:38 pm 
 

In general computer lingo, the asterisk indicates a variable. For example in searches you can include an asterisk for variations on what you typed, like similar spellings.

So typing "trans*" instead of just "trans" is more of a catch-all where you're being sure to include all types of "trans" including transgender and transsexual.

The language of LGBT/queer issues can be a bit confusing as it's an ever-evolving way to deal with the reality of the wide spectrum of gender identity and sexual identity when we've only had pretty archaic language to describe only fractions of it until somewhat recently. It's pretty important though, I think. Having a "word" to describe how you view yourself seems incredibly valuable, especially with all of the enormous social pressures that exist regarding gender and sexuality.
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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 845
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:30 pm 
 

Marag wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
Care to share any sources outside that recent Megadeth story?

Source: My interaction with other metalheads. Sadly I can't upload memories and such on the internet.
Might not be accurate of the whole but the attitudes I have encountered are either "whatever" or "kill all the fucking subhuman faggots"

That's not a source, and you're just lumping a group together with no research and just total bias.
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Marag
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Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:10 pm 
 

So I guess everyone else but me posted their opinions with basis on academic papers and researches?

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the_raytownian
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am
Posts: 2318
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:33 am 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
I'm cis and my answer can't really replace the experiences and opinions of a trans* person, but I'd imagine it's basically like feeling that your default gender (as determined by biological sex) doesn't complement your inner being, personality, traits, and perception of self. I can sort of relate to an extent, because when I was younger (in my early teens) I had a period where I felt very uncomfortable with being expected to act masculine and sensed my personality naturally drifting towards femininity, but I simultaneously felt locked in a position where I couldn't properly express myself in that manner because society expected me to be male and act accordingly. I often wished I was female, or that I could at least pass off as one, because at least then I wouldn't have to combat my own increasingly masculine physical appearance and society's expectations of me as a male. It was distressing, like looking in the mirror and feeling that I wasn't the person I wanted to see. It was like distress over the unfulfilled state of the traits of my inner self that I could not change, sort of like a person saying "I wish I weren't a compulsive liar" or "I wish I were friendlier", but with gender instead of personality.


What you have described fits me very well even today (it's actually only getting worse, not better). I am a biological male, but I think I probably have a very real hormonal imbalance. This has had a lot of impact on my sense of self, I think... I actually want to be, physically, "more male", but psychologically, I can't fit that role at all, even if I try to.

I feel grotesque physically, and ashamed of my psychology, and very stressed out about not being able to be both a man and like a woman, despite having no sense of actually being a woman. While I am and feel biologically male, I am incredibly conflicted by all the expectations of masculinity. I've always felt much more "myself" in the "feminine roles" defined by society. Basically, I feel like a lot of people believe you can't have your cake and eat it too... and they chalk my difficulty with "being a man" up to laziness (I do my best, though, becoming drenched in sweat during hard physical labor while everyone else's foreheads are bone-dry because it's just that hard for me. Plus, I'm kind of a fat ass... I'd rather be cooking the other guy's meals for both of these reasons).

I want to be more physically male and still identify as male without having to fill the societal role of a male... Because they feel so alien to me. Because I can't fill those roles, in fact. I've never been able to. Part of me actually feels incredibly insecure and hostile towards my idea of "perfect" males because I feel like such an outcast and a freak in their presence, like they all think less of me for even daring to have a cock and be in the same room with them while not being enough like them. Like I "should" be, both physically and psychologically.

I feel like I have to be defensive and wary of men I am envious of and have physical desire for because they realize I am "not a man" socially, or even (quite) physically, and would never "want me" in any way because of it... I have unusually full breasts, feminine curves and a rather unimpressive prick, the later of which being the only one that really doesn't bother me (No, I'm not insecure about my genitals, beyond the notion that my being barely average is largely a result of my perceived, but as of yet medically-unconfirmed, hormonal imbalance. I care A LOT more about having chick-tits, which is way more painful and embarrassing to admit than having a wimpy cock is, believe me).

IDK if my input is really relevant, considering I am not trans, so much as feeling stuck somewhere in between where I should not be, but I still don't feel secure in my current self or in society. FWIW, before I was ready to accept that I am a fag, I used to fantasize about sex, but I was almost always the woman in my fantasies, and I only forced myself to play the male role when I got too uncomfortable with the notion that I liked "being the girl" in sexual scenarios. But I do like being "the girl" (bottom). It doesn't bother me now... It only makes me uncomfortable that "normal people" consider me disgusting for it, despite how right and normal it absolutely feels to me.

Done rambling.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:05 am 
 

[quote="MrMcThrasher II"
That's not a source, and you're just lumping a group together with no research and just total bias.[/quote]

Dude he said it was his own encounters, what the fuck did you expect him to do, pull out a highlight reel of hecklers yelling or throwing stuff at him?
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the_raytownian
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am
Posts: 2318
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:12 am 
 

Marag wrote:
Might not be accurate of the whole but the attitudes I have encountered are either "whatever" or "kill all the fucking subhuman faggots"


Yeah, IDK why (or how) any of you guys are so deluded to think every place is a happy, multicultural utopia like MA, because I don't think this is really that far off the mark according to my own experiences, especially when it comes to BM culture in particular.

"Society in general" is irrelevant because we're talking specifically about experiences with people in the metal community here.
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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:38 am 
 

somefella wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
That's not a source, and you're just lumping a group together with no research and just total bias.


Dude he said it was his own encounters, what the fuck did you expect him to do, pull out a highlight reel of hecklers yelling or throwing stuff at him?

He said, in his own words, metalheads are homophobic on the average. That's how he started it. I challenged that thought. So yes, I expect more than "personal experience". If you're gonna make generalized statements, have statistics better than "most that I know..." since that counts for pretty much nothing.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:44 am 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
He said, in his own words, metalheads are homophobic on the average. That's how he started it. I challenged that thought. So yes, I expect more than "personal experience". If you're gonna make generalized statements, have statistics better than "most that I know..." since that counts for pretty much nothing.

It would count if he knew metalheads of all the world's cultures and social classes. The total amount of metalheads he'd have to know would be in the magnitude of tens of thousands. Not only that, but he'd have to have an equally wide knowledge of the stances held by the general non-metalhead population in order to make any comparison.
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the_raytownian
Metalhead

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Posts: 2318
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:14 am 
 

gee, I guess we need a poll now...

based on my experience both "IRL" and on various online communities (most not nearly as strictly regulated as MA), homophobia is hardly uncommon, or even challenged by most.

Not that I care. I only care about people being in such denial that they simply refuse to believe in that reality... without requesting impossible "evidence" of people's own personal experiences.

I pretty much "left" the Metal scene because I got fed up with all the pigheaded bullshit, closed-mindedness and excessive machismo. Is that proof enough? It's no small part of why I "got involved" with the hippie-dippy Crust Punk scene more after I decided I was fed up with "Metalhead culture", too.

I couldn't put up with the prevailing attitudes of the majority of the people I knew, both online and in person anymore. Period.
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Zero_Nowhere
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:11 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:15 am 
 

Gypaetus wrote:
No offense, but the 'gender-queer' label confuses me thoroughly. I've read about gender-queer and 'queer' as a sexual orientation, and... yeah, still thoroughly confused as to how that works. I won't pry though, if you're happy labeling yourself as that it's all good :thumbsup:


'queer' isn't really a single sexual orientation. Its a catch-all term that pretty much encompasses every sexuality that isn't 'straight'. More a banner to gather under than an actual definition. As gender goes, it largely denotes someone who doesn't really identify as male or female (or does but tends to wander between them). But as with most new-ish terms, it tends to have a lot of slightly different interpretations that aren't really standardised.


edit: Speaking only to the local metal scene, it does trend pretty socially conservative. Not really an aggressive bigotry (save for some of the local WP guys, who frankly need to hurry up and deepthroat a shotgun already) but the general blue collar reactionary tendencies - a pervasive sort of lowgrade homophobia and racism (amongst other things) that tends to come out more in word than deed. This is much less the case in certain elements of the local punk scene and in some of the mixed areas, though just as prevalent in a lot of them and even moreso in at least one branch that I can think of.

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Meconium
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 1:09 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:44 am 
 

Zero_Nowhere wrote:
Gypaetus wrote:
No offense, but the 'gender-queer' label confuses me thoroughly. I've read about gender-queer and 'queer' as a sexual orientation, and... yeah, still thoroughly confused as to how that works. I won't pry though, if you're happy labeling yourself as that it's all good :thumbsup:


'queer' isn't really a single sexual orientation. Its a catch-all term that pretty much encompasses every sexuality that isn't 'straight'. More a banner to gather under than an actual definition. As gender goes, it largely denotes someone who doesn't really identify as male or female (or does but tends to wander between them). But as with most new-ish terms, it tends to have a lot of slightly different interpretations that aren't really standardised.


Example: "Queer" came to me when I got involved in my local BDSM community a few years ago. It allows me to conceptualize my sexual orientation in a wider way than just what kind of genitals do I want to touch, and allows me to subvert traditional notions of which gender takes on which sex role. It allows me the freedom to explore a connection with another person regardless of how they present themselves. Sometimes the activities I pursue in BDSM aren't "sex," per se, but they can be sexual, depending on the energy or attraction between me and another person. "Queer" fits my personal experience of being a woman who lived most of her life as straight, but occasionally developed romantic attractions to other women that I never acted on because they were presumably straight women and I had NO IDEA how I'd even go about it, who then became active in BDSM and was happy to do a variety of kinky things with other people regardless of their gender, who has also had experiences being attracted to and sometimes sexually involved with straight, gay, bi, queer, and trans* folks, who also enjoys cross-dressing from time to time and fucking with people's expectations of my behavior based on my assumed gender identity...At this point, "queer" is just the least inaccurate label for myself. I mean, I could spend years trying to figure out a more accurate and specific way to label myself, but fuck it, I'm queer.


Zero_Nowhere wrote:
local WP guys, who frankly need to hurry up and deepthroat a shotgun already


This.

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Marag
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:14 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
He said, in his own words, metalheads are homophobic on the average. That's how he started it. I challenged that thought. So yes, I expect more than "personal experience". If you're gonna make generalized statements, have statistics better than "most that I know..." since that counts for pretty much nothing.

I don't know why, since I don't see anyone else here backing up their statements with anything else other than personal experience. But whatever you say. I'm not lgbt, it's not a topic that I discuss often/or at all, but outside of m-a, both irl and the internet, it's very easy to see wariness and hatred of gay people among metalheads. Maybe I'm just talking with the wrong people? I don't care.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:57 pm 
 

He's just picking on you, Marag. Maybe it's a touchy subject for him.

Queer is a good catch-all -- Of curious and unclassifiable nature and perhaps strangely shaped.

the_raytonian, I feel like you should just move to the bay area or some place like it. Somewhere you can at least get your self and your body on the same side. It's an uphill battle in pin-headed communities for people in this kind of grey area. Your and MCF's stories made my hackles rigidify thinking about how fart-brained obnoxious it is for people (strangers!) to lord it over you like they have the authority of "what a man should be." You fucking dicks, leave the kids alone. Not everyone is a meat head with a rectangular penis like you!

Gender roles are like race: culturally relative, socially reinforced, pitifully hollow. Skin tone and hair form, while obvious differences, are insubstantial genetic classification markers. They account for virtually zero substantial genetic difference. For more on this see the documentary Race: The Power of an Illusion. Similarly, how emotional one is doesn't make one more feminine. By that logic, sociopaths are the epitome of masculinity. It's disqualifying stupidity.

The only shame in being a bottom (or crossing any arbitrary gender role at all) is in how much it removes that person from a culturally reinforced definition of behavior and the following social consequences. No "man" would do that. No "man" would do what a "woman" would do. It's sick. If you're a man, it's sick to be a woman. It's unnatural for a man to do what women do. Excuse me, there are plenty of women who don't like anal sex. Shut up, faggot. You're the mental Goliath here, dude; I submit .. I mean that in the most obstinate and overbearingly powerful way possible.

It's amazing what assholes people will be just to get a pat on the back from their douche bag friends or an approving nod from their bigoted father. Some compost-bound pieces of shit will actually rape women on a dare, and in some mental backwaters a raped woman will be either stoned or exiled and either way her family's reputation is stained. Ever heard of the term "a black virgin"? Generally, people who uphold this kind of shittery are trying to keep themselves from facing some kind of social back lash themselves by being fuck heads to other people, usually those physically weaker and in few numbers. Mob psychology and peer pressure can have a strong influence on the weak minded. Make your way to more supportive climes and leave the fools behind.
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angel_of_metal
Mallcore Kid

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:18 am 
 

Gypaetus wrote:
angel_of_metal wrote:
*gingerly raises hand*

Am happy to answer any serious questions people might have (I'm female to male if it helps) but to be honest it's really not a big deal nor a big part of who I am. Those that know me know exactly that along with a few other things, Metal plays a far bigger role in my life, that what is or is not in the contents of my trousers.


I have a question, if you don't mind (as this thread's been resurrected and all). I've always wondered as to how having a specific 'gender identity' works, and what it's like to feel like you should be a 'different' gender to what you are biologically. Like a few people that have posted in this thread, it seems, I've always felt like myself, and have never really given a second thought to whether I feel like a certain gender or not. It's a really alien concept to me, and it would be great if you could shed some light on it.

Edit: I can't write properly at 5am, sorry.



Sorry for the delayed response :)

It's not necessarily something that you can put your finger on even if you are experiencing it. In essence throughout my childhood there were plenty of events and experiences that didn't quite make sense ot me at the time given my perspective, almost like something was missing and didn't fit. It wasn't until I started to wonder about gender (as by my late teens it was clear something was *not* right, and was trying everything to figure out what 'it' was) did things start to fall in to place. All the events and experiences all suddenly made sense, it was as if someone had suddenly turned on a light in my life.


In answer to your question, there is no real feeling for a good portion of the population as your gender (how your brain feels) and your sex (aka 'downstairs' etc) match up so there is no reason to 'notice' anything (which is what the term 'cis-gendered' is)
The problem only starts when things don't match up,and as for those feelings... mostly confusion, not knowing and a feeling of being lost I think in general. That and for example looking in a mirror/dreaming about having a slightly different body, to the point where certain parts of you you hate, eg downstairs. Nowadays the feeling still comes occasionally, and it's a feeling of sadness, extreme self-consciousness, and even despair, but it passes in a day or two usually now :)

Part of the issue is that like sexuality, but even more, people never think to question their gender, or even are aware that they can question it. Which can lead to some pretty serious issues, and I have only ever met one trans* person that hasn't attempted to off themselves due to that. And that is why I am pretty open about things and partake in education - while sure it's mostly private stuff and technically no-ones business, I'd rather have my 'personal stuff' brought up and discussed so that others might be helped. Or so that people realise that we aren't all just drug crazy hookers on the back alleys, and in fact we are normal everyday people (often with good jobs), and there is in fact no need to assault or kill us

Hope this helps :)

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mindshadow
Echoes in an empty cranium

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:06 am 
 

angel_of_metal wrote:
The problem only starts when things don't match up,and as for those feelings... mostly confusion, not knowing and a feeling of being lost I think in general. That and for example looking in a mirror/dreaming about having a slightly different body, to the point where certain parts of you you hate, eg downstairs. Nowadays the feeling still comes occasionally, and it's a feeling of sadness, extreme self-consciousness, and even despair, but it passes in a day or two usually now :)

and in fact we are normal everyday people



I read a lot about buddhism and how buddha saw things, when he reached a certain stage sex became irrelevant to him, he just "was". Gender shouldn't matter and any conflictions you feel inside should never stop you from enjoying life, comparing yourself to how others behave and peer pressure is probably what makes you feel sad.

Zen masters like Bodhidharma talk about Buddha Nature which - "indicates the true nature of each of us, only we don't see our own true nature because we are deluded about what we see".

Just "be" and live your life free from worry about how you sometimes feel at odds with your physical gender.

I have read so much and can't possibly remember it all, so I searched on-line and luckily found this to help better explain what I mean;

Quote:
Thus, according to Buddhism, there is not even a permanent enduring sexless soul attached to any individual’s existence, let alone any permanent, real, or lasting identity based on gender. Thus fixed norms regarding gender roles or stereotypes based on gender are completely contradictory with the most basic Buddhist doctrines, which means that tenacious, emotionally intense clinging to those gender norms and stereotypes is even more inappropriate. Furthermore, the suffering experienced both by those who do not conform to gender norms, as well as those who do, is to be expected if clinging to rigid and fixed norms about gender persists. All that classical Buddhist doctrines would seem to warrant is a recognition that someone is male or female biologically, but that no inherent or necessary implications about appropriate behavior and psychology can be attached to that biology.


I am no buddhist but their sincere teachings and appraisals have helped me a lot, especially in dealing with the world which I sometimes struggle to comprehend and understand. But forget words like buddhism, zen, Bodhidharma and any talk about a soul, they are used here like a raft to carry you home across a wide river, once you are across what use are they to you? - hope I make sense
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:37 pm 
 

Ohhh, great idea, just ignore it! Brilliant!

That's seriously some of the worst advice I've ever read on the internet.
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mindshadow
Echoes in an empty cranium

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:41 pm 
 

Using buddhism to help deal with how you feel isn't about ignoring an issue, but about being mindful - acknowledging thoughts and feelings without succombing/ getting bogged down constantly by them and wasting your life worrying about some intrinsic aspect of yourself.

If you seriously believe my post basically said ignore the problem, I did a pretty poor job of explaining what I meant. If your feeling this way (how others have described) what else can you do but accept the way you are, and realise much of your sadness stems from how society judges you, which you have no control over, and you just want to be accepted for who you are (in your mind) to get on with your life, and not be expected to automatically behave a certain way because of your physical anatomy.
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Back Stabbath
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:15 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:48 am 
 

I personally think Winds of Genocide are ultra brutal, and the singer has spoken a bit publicaly about her transition and its relevence to the metal/punk thing.

Oh, and first post. Hello.
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