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Danneq
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:33 am
Posts: 8
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:58 pm 
 

I submitted an entry for the late 80's US prog metal band Wintersong, and it was rejected because I could not show that it was a physical release. I replied to the mail by accident and I re-post my reply here:

I have no physical copy of this demo. I got it digitally from the drummer Lou Caldarola after asking him for demos from his two prog metal bands Wintersong and Dominion. I read about the bands on the Soundscape discussion forum and found the drummer's homepage and contacted him. He was very nice and sent me digital copies of both the Wintersong and the Dominion demos (I will submit Dominion as well to Metal Archives).

I refer you to Lou Caldarone himself. He probably has got a tape copy of the demo and can send you photos of it: lucien2112@comcast.net

Here are some links that are proof of the Wintersong demo being a real release in 1989:

Lou Caldarola's homepage:
http://www.loucaldarola.com/history.html


Thread from the Powerprog USA discussion board from 2008. They are discussing Soundscape and other bands of the former members:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/progpower-usa/377675-soundscape-grave-new-world-finally-being-released-2008-a.html

A post where a person mentions the Wintersong and Dominion demos:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/progpower-usa/377675-soundscape-grave-new-world-finally-being-released-2008-a.html#post8047389

A post where a person mentions the Wintersong demo:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/progpower-usa/377675-soundscape-grave-new-world-finally-being-released-2008-a.html#post8047925


Interview in Dutch from when Lou Caldarola was in Toxik (I do not read Dutch, but he mentions Wintersong):
http://www.zwaremetalen.com/interview/11389/Interview-met-Toxik.html


That's all I can do. You can always contact the guys in Dream Theater. Bill Rogers is the first singer they thank on Images and Words. According to Lou Caldarola the Wintersong demo is what got Dream Theater interested in recruiting Bill Rogers as the new Dream Theater singer.

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1413
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 5:20 pm 
 

Lou has provided me with a lot of info on his old projects. I have subbed some, myself.

I would recommend that you provide screens of the emails. Lou is a helpful dude.
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Danneq
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:33 am
Posts: 8
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 5:31 pm 
 

TheGrimWombat wrote:
Lou has provided me with a lot of info on his old projects. I have subbed some, myself.

I would recommend that you provide screens of the emails. Lou is a helpful dude.



Well, I could do that. Since you have been in contact with Lou, you should know about Wintersong and Dominion, right? If a mod asks me for screens of e-mails I can send it to them in an e-mail. Don't want to post it here in the forum.

EDIT: Wow! Lou is REALLY nice and fast to reply! He took pictures of the Wintersong and Dominion demos (he has them on CD while I thought that he had them on cassette). It would be nice to get wav or FLAC files from him. Both demos that I received were in a lossy format, the Dominion only being MP3 @ 160 kbps. But it still sounds good, so I'll not complain...

I have uploaded the photos that Lou Calderola sent to me to my Imageshack account:

Photo of both the Wintersong and the Dominion CD demos:
http://imageshack.us/a/img812/6614/wintersongdominioncds.jpg

Insert from the Wintersong demo CD:
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/1326/requieminsert.jpg


Damn, it would be nice to have CD copies of those demos!!!

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analog_winter
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:34 pm
Posts: 1159
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:09 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
analog_winter wrote:
I don't know how they were distributed.

How did you get your tape then?


I was getting some other tapes from Paul of Velnias, and he threw in that as an extra. I don't know if it was ever sold through any distros or labels. I guess I could have worded that phrase better. I don't know how widely they were distributed.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5810
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:46 am 
 

Desavenencia wrote:
Sorry for causing you trouble, but you don't have to talk in an attacking tone, as in the email.
Thanks for the information of the silly limitation. I only have a doubt,
what number of copies would be enough for you to consider it as a valid release?

Use your own judgement on that and ask yourself what makes an album publicly available and spread in reasonable quantities in any realistic sense. Any specific number would be arbitrary, but a single-digit limitation is definitely not enough.
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Quote:
One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5810
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:50 am 
 

analog_winter wrote:
I was getting some other tapes from Paul of Velnias, and he threw in that as an extra. I don't know if it was ever sold through any distros or labels. I guess I could have worded that phrase better. I don't know how widely they were distributed.

Yeah, we need to know if it was ever really distributed and how. I guess if it is only being included as a bonus with orders, it depends on how regular and numerous those inclusions are. More details needed either way.
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One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

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Desavenencia
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:56 am 
 

Thanks a lot for the info so I make sure to not commit the same mistake again.
I also have a suggestion. In rules and guidelines> bands and albums.
Text: And remember that a clear-cut proof of a physical release is always the best ticket for acceptance (unless it's 3 little tapes you obviously made for your mother, your brother and your friend... and yes, we've had this kind of submission!).

You could change that for: Unless its a release limited to one digit number of copies.

I had in mind that 9 could be enough, as there are many that have 10, or 11 copies only.
The purpose of the suggestion would be only for avoiding someone submitting something without knowing the exact limitation. Thanks a lot Azmodes and I'm not here to cause trouble just to provide the few information that's in my hands. Cheers.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3580
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:09 am 
 

Uhm.

Image
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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curwenius
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:23 pm
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:46 am 
 

I wanted to ask you to reconsider the deletion of the funeral drone doom metal band Qhwertt. I understand that the band is a complete metal band, where guitars are the main instrument, despite of having heavy keyboard brushstrokes. As a user reported this band as non-metal, I suggest you to listen both albums of Qhwertt. Also, you can read an interview in doomantia.com http://www.doommantia.com/search/label/Qhwertt. Also, the band is listed in doom-metal.com.
Both albums were edited by Furias Records with good response of many metal distributors.
Thanks in advance.
www.orionmusicfurias.com.ar/qhwertt

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5810
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:49 am 
 

curwenius wrote:
I suggest you to listen both albums of Qhwertt.

I did.
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Quote:
One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 584
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:52 am 
 

Why is Caninus from America blacklisted. It's either because they are unacceptable grindcore, or the fact that two of their members are pit bulls.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5810
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:54 am 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Why is Caninus from America blacklisted. It's either because they are unacceptable grindcore, or the fact that two of their members are pit bulls.

Blacklist says the former. We have Hatebeak, so the latter wouldn't be an issue. :P
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One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3580
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:00 am 
 

*were pitbulls

R.I.P. Basil. :(
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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curwenius
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:23 pm
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:18 am 
 

Azmodes wrote:
curwenius wrote:
I suggest you to listen both albums of Qhwertt.

I did.


Do you agree with that was reported for the user about Qhwertt?

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5810
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:20 am 
 

Yep.
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Quote:
One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

Last.fm | Collection

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curwenius
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:23 pm
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:23 am 
 

Azmodes wrote:


I see, thanks for your attention and your quick replies.

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analog_winter
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:34 pm
Posts: 1159
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:51 am 
 

Azmodes wrote:
analog_winter wrote:
I was getting some other tapes from Paul of Velnias, and he threw in that as an extra. I don't know if it was ever sold through any distros or labels. I guess I could have worded that phrase better. I don't know how widely they were distributed.

Yeah, we need to know if it was ever really distributed and how. I guess if it is only being included as a bonus with orders, it depends on how regular and numerous those inclusions are. More details needed either way.


Yeah, I don't really have those details, so I'll just wait for the band to release more stuff and gain more of a presence. Thanks!
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Jarmarr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:28 pm
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:29 pm 
 

Hi,

Lately i wanted to add my band on metal-archives.

It is Ögenix from Canada.

Apparently we're blacklist. But i'm really wondering why..

We are a industrial-metal band. But mainly metal. Took a look by yourself on our bandcamp. http://ogenix.bandcamp.com/

We have released a physical full album in febuary, regardless of all the promo or singles / show's and event compil we are on.

I know that my band exist since 2001, and that at the time it wasnt really metal. probably as been blacklist at the time du to the metalness of the genre.

I can show you evidence as you want. pictures, realesd album, music...

Thank you for your time.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5810
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:37 pm 
 

Predominantly industrial/hardcore.

Jarmarr wrote:
I know that my band exist since 2001, and that at the time it wasnt really metal. probably as been blacklist at the time du to the metalness of the genre.

No, it was blacklisted in March this year. Someone else tried to submit it.
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One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

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Morkner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:12 pm 
 

Trinity: it was rejected because you guys categorise it under Atmospheric Black Ambient/Drone, it can still be added can't it?

Black Ambient: Mixture of Black Metal and Dark Ambient
Drone Music: Form of minimalistic music which can easily be subcategorised as a form of Ambience or Metal

Please re-review it, under the genre I did add drone, because i know the music sounds like it is.

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Varkoth
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:53 pm
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:34 pm 
 

Was told to post here so, Maybe someone can clarify? I don't understand how Arditi is in the metal archives yet Legionarii was rejected.

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METALSANDMETALS
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:47 pm
Posts: 32
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:32 pm 
 

I heard BTBAM used to be on this site but then suddenly got blacklisted. But why them? I know they first began as a progressive metalcore band and they had a lot of elements from hardcore punk. But ever since they released Colors, they ABANDONED that sound and are now a progressive metal band with some influences from like jazz, progressive rock, metal, death metal, and others. They don't have any breakdowns, or anything like that anymore. That was their old stuff. If Faith No More are on this site then how are they more metal? They are so experimental that they play even other genres like funk and stuff. Also, FNM even are rap metal which is a rejected genre. But if BTBAM play progressive metal, they should be on this site. Try looking at their newer stuff and it sounds undeniably like very complex, progressive metal with some keyboards, jazz influences and stuff. It basically follows the modern prog metal train. If Xerath are here, then BTBAM should, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_fbY-qAmGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI21vCTtob4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuEz_HvBqZ0

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 8657
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:38 pm 
 

Next time before posting, use the search function. It's obviously so you're not the first one talking about them and unfortunately, not the last.

This was the last time BTBAM (and probably the 100th) was discussed: viewtopic.php?p=2197604#p2197604
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4845
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:42 pm 
 

Black ambient is not ambient black metal. Drone is not drone/doom metal. It isn't metal.

Legionarii is martial industrial. Arditi was accepted as a side project of a member of Algaion, though we are slowly reviewing bands like Puissance that are on the archives.

BTBAM :rolleyes:

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Varkoth
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:53 pm
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:14 pm 
 

I totally understand and relate about Legionarii. I'm cool with that.

But allowing the listing of side projects of band members (regardless of who it is and what they did) that are non-metal is the most ridiculous thing I have heard for an archived list/inventory of METAL bands. This isn't the side-project archives. No one really cares about how many bands are listed on the site.

The categorizing has gone to hell and very lax since I joined this site back in 2005. Bands like Soulfly and Ministry would have never been allowed to be listed back then. Time for me to move on.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3580
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:03 am 
 

Quote:
The categorizing has gone to hell and very lax since I joined this site back in 2005.

That's a rather hasty conclusion you've jumped to, and a terribly erroneous one.

Granted, the side-project rule has arguably been the stem of more confusion than anything else on this site (half the blacklist is filled with ambient/martial industrial/drone/neofolk. etc). When the rule was first introduced, it aimed to include projects that were most relevant to the metal scene... such as Karl Sanders' Egyptian folk/ambient project, which is pretty much comprised of material that didn't fit in his main band, Nile. There was no hard and fast criteria for what christened a band as "noteworthy enough", though the rules of thumb were that it had to be founded by an esteemed/famous metal musician of global renown (or something close enough), and typically in tandem with their metallic career. For instance, Storm Corrosion was founded by Mikael Åkerfeldt in tandem with Opeth. The other rule of thumb was that the project should ideally have worldwide distribution on a major record label (although this is a guideline that people have misinterpreted as a black-and-white rule over time...)

Quote:
Bands like Soulfly and Ministry would have never been allowed to be listed back then.

Uhm. Bands like Soulfly and Ministry weren't accepted based on anything less than an undeniably and irrefutably metallic release. I'm not familiar with Ministry, but I can tell you it took something as metal as this to get Soulfly off the blacklist. :p They weren't accepted based on anything prior to that.


Morkner wrote:
Trinity: it was rejected because you guys categorise it under Atmospheric Black Ambient/Drone, it can still be added can't it?

Seriously cobber, what IS it with you trying to get blatantly non-metal stuff into the site? :p

Morkner wrote:
Black Ambient: Mixture of Black Metal and Dark Ambient

... no. Black ambient can refer to dark ambient with blackened elements/aesthetics, or it can refer to "black noise" (e.g., fucked-up guitar ambience and/or BM vocals). Just because a musical genre is influenced by a metal one, it doesn't make it metal. :facepalm:

Morkner wrote:
Drone Music: Form of minimalistic music which can easily be subcategorised as a form of Ambience or Metal

Yeah, we know what drone is, dude... There's a huge difference between drone ambient and drone doom. Drone doom is consisted of long, heavy, sustained guitar riffs that still adhere to a song structure... contrast with drone ambient, where a guitar could still be used to provide backing ambience without supplying any real riffs whatsoever.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Morkner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:18 am 
 

The reason is I'm trying to help fellow musicians get more noticed, I know the M.A can do that (Rosaceae went from hardly known to somewhat popular in under a week).

Take a listen to Trinity, forget all the genres and categories, just tell me if it sounds like metal, that's all.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3580
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:22 am 
 

Morkner wrote:
The reason is I'm trying to help fellow musicians get more noticed, I know the M.A can do that (Rosaceae went from hardly known to somewhat popular in under a week).

This site isn't a promotional facility, nor has it ever tried to be.

Quote:
Take a listen to Trinity, forget all the genres and categories, just tell me if it sounds like metal, that's all.

Yeah, listening now... and I don't know about "atmospheric black ambient/drone" (which was Azmodes's assessment), but personally I think this sounds more like shoegaze than anything else. :rolleyes:
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Morkner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:24 am 
 

I'm not saying it is a promotional facility, just that it is an extra benefit of being accepted on to M.A.

Does Trinity really sound like shoegaze to you? it's a little harsh for that genre isn't it?

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Morkner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:26 am 
 

it even utilises blastbeats.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3580
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:28 am 
 

Blackshoe (blackened shoegaze), but still predominantly shoegaze.

Dude, just... please, stop. :(

Morkner wrote:
it even utilises blastbeats.

... metal isn't defined by drumming. It's defined by guitars. Specifically, guitar riffs. You could say that's the site's own definition of the genre, but quite frankly, I think it's a view that's largely widespread. You can't put blastbeats to a rap track and expect it to magically become metal.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 584
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:30 am 
 

Morkner wrote:
forget all the genres and categories, just tell me if it sounds like metal


Morkner wrote:
Does Trinity really sound like shoegaze to you? it's a little harsh for that genre isn't it?


Somewhat contradictory, buddy.
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Morkner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:32 am 
 

oh well, I can't win... Blackshoe (whatever fake genre that is) can't be accepted?

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3580
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:38 am 
 

Blackshoe, blackgaze, blackened shoegaze, whatever the heck you want to call it... yeah, no. It's as bad as metalcore in terms of hair-pulling, head-scratching borderline cases. ._.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Morkner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:40 am 
 

:( ok

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 584
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:39 pm 
 

In easily the quickest turn around in site history, why was ..Quite Simply... Cunt accepted and immediately deleted?
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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:58 pm 
 

Because it was blacklisted in last October. Most likely that was realized only after it had been accepted.
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SadisticGratification
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:59 pm 
 

Just out of curiousity, why aren't Between the Buried and Me on the archives? it really is only curiousity because I can't stand that band and am not trying to get them back but it seems a lot of bands who are similar enough are on it plus I would classify them as metal personally.

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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:01 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Next time before posting, use the search function. It's obviously so you're not the first one talking about them and unfortunately, not the last.

This was the last time BTBAM (and probably the 100th) was discussed: viewtopic.php?p=2197604#p2197604

If not the search function, Ctrl-F would've been enough in this case... This was previously asked yesterday on this very page of this thread.
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SadisticGratification
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:02 pm 
 

I actually did do a search :(

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