I was going to say, I too am a Reverend Bizarre fanboi and I am OUTRAGED haha Other than Cirith Ungol, I'm not sure how one can say Into the Rectory, even with an average song length of 11 mins has little riff variety. It's pure old school trad doom, so if you don't dig Vitus or Pentagram, you probably won't like RB. I wonder if this dude has even attempted Dopesmoker... But if you want a long doom song that changes a lot and has accessible melodies, try Bongrippers song Worship.

Most metalheads probably initially have a problem accepting repetition in either black metal or doom metal. While technical thrash metal and death metal require an appreciation of fast changes and good riffing on it's own, there's another side of metal that's really all about juiced up amps and lots of big huge chords and awesome tone. The idea is that this repetition results in some kind of hypnotism, not monotony. If you're anticipating change listening to Transylvanian Hunger or Dopethrone, you're going to be let down, but if you anticipate build up and internal imagery and a solid groove, then you'll find records like those a lot more rewarding.

"Overlong" songs can kill any style of music; in fact, overly long songs are inherently a bad thing.

The trouble is, however, that "overly-long" and "extremely long" are different things; a fifteen minute song can have content enough to justify its length, whilst sometimes a six minute song can be overly-long by three minutes. What's more, one person's "hypnotic" song; say, Funeralopolis or Det Som En Gang Var can be over-long to someone else, so there's no agreement on which songs are overly long.

Personally, I'm equally pleased by doom albums with four fifteen minute tracks, as I am with albums with eight six minute ones; the only condition which needs to be placed on it is that it is well done.That is something which doom-metal is no worse at than other sub-genres, as far as I'm concerned; so no - overly long songs don't kill any kind of metal, but they can sure as hell kill individual songs and albums.

Nah. As long as the musician knows when enough is enough, especially in terms of repetition, doom songs seem to work great in long doses.

Overlong albums, on the other hand....that shit can make or break drone.

Heh, those are like the two main characteristics of metal that drew me to it in the first place.



Pretty much this. People tend to think the trademark slow doom dirges have too few ideas; I tend to think songs in general have too many. I like hearing the slow evolution of a riff over the course of a song. Doom is a genre all about worshiping at the altar of the almighty riff (for whom Sabbath is the only prophet of course), so it makes sense that they would explore riffs in such lengthy detail. In a sense, it's some of the purest metal there is.

Since it has been brought up a few times now, Dopethrone is considered particuarly droney and riffless? Since when, other than the shitty Weird Tales that this is catchy and riffing hook filled as any metal album I've heard. I guess the count might be a bit low, but damn, they still change riffs a bunch.

I agree. The only thing about them that makes them counterproductive to the argument is that their riffs vary a lot. They are slow, sure, but they aren't redundant.

It's also band to band, even ones that are reasonably close. For instance, I really like Pallbearer (engaging and emotional), but don't like 40 Watt Sun (bore me stiff). Who knows?

It really depends on the artist and song that makes it dull or exicting. If the song has great riffs and varations to keep me interested, then I would listen to a fifthteen minute song. There are doom songs that are just unappealing to me, but only because the musical arrangement is either too lazy or just tedious.

Doom metal 's signature for long songs what appealed to me in the first place when I was younger. The amazement how the bands could make a ten minute song and still be interesting what I thought made doom meet special. I even sometimes find short doom songs to be less interesting than "overlonged songs". It comes down to your taste of the genre really.

When done right, it is divine!
Tell me you didn't enjoy My Dying Bride's The Barghest o' Whitby? Bands like MDB who seem to have a variety of ideas which they never present the same way and add different shades with other instruments can make it work more than your stoner/drone dudes.

I also enjoy Neurosis' drawn out doom moments as in "The Last You'll Know".

I really didn't mean what I said as a bad thing at all...

hopefully, because when metal is dead it sheds its dead wieght and only the potent survive to create beyond social rewards and peer praise

Overlong songs only doom the poor bands (no pun intended). Bands like Candlemass, Doomshine and Scald (to name a few) show that long songs that stay interesting throughout are not only possible but are preferred. Most of the boring doom bands that have the overlong songs described in this thread wouldn't be saved by shaving a few minutes off.

Yup, overlong was definitely the wrong way to phrase it. Nothing has killed doom metal, it's doing quite well actually. Long doom songs can be great and fit the doom sound, sure some bands fuck it up, but that's just how it goes. With every genre comes mediocre bands, and not all bands can pull it off, especially when their songs are so long.

I feel the same way. I like Pallbearer reasonably well (not too big on the vocals, but it doesn't ruin it), but I hate 40 Watt Sun. I thought Warning was largely boring, but 40 Watt are just about the lamest thing ever. I really think they are the Nickleback of doom. They have a fairly accessible formula, they watered down a once potent formula, appeal to the lowest common denominator of the genre and just aren't that imaginative. They don't have any real riffs, the atmosphere is lacking and the vocals are just about the worst thing ever (I don't know how he managed to get 10 times worse in that short period).

Raise your hand if you've never looked at your watch after Pentagram's "Burning Saviour" and been surprised that 9 minutes had passed! Length doesn't equal boredom.