I've noticed this as well, and while it isn't the most bothersome thing I've seen on the show, it does show a lack of creativity. I can handle the slaver cities looking the way they do (although I do want to see the pyramids and ziggurats in Mereen at least) because that's more or less how I imagined, but they didn't do a good job with Qarth. In fact, they'd have me believe that Pentos, Qarth, and the slave cities are all basically the same despite being different civilizations in distant corners of the world. Qarth in particular was described as a rich and colorful city, something I imagined would look like ancient Istanbul/Constantinople, or possibly Rome. I'm hoping they get Braavos and Volantis right when the time comes. I imagined Braavos as a kind of hybrid between an ancient Greek or Roman city and Venice. Volantis made me think of India. I suppose we wait and see, but it would be a shame to see every non-Westeros location turned into a brown shade of ancient Arabia. They gave Winterfell and Kings Landing proper treatment, and eventually Essos is just as important to the story.

I can't give as much insight as the rest, considering I haven't read the books. What I will say though is that I liked the new episode quite a bit. Especially the giant. I'd really like to see one (or a dozen) of those stompin' around like crazy.

Pretty much the same as Xlxlx said there. Just saw the premiere earlier tonight. Overall I was pretty satisfied with it. Giant was definitely one of the best bits. Seeing people agonize over the changes from the books just makes me that much gladder I haven't read them... as it is, I enjoy the show, and I'm sure if I was a book fan I'd probably be nerdraging with the rest of them

Speaking of the whole homogenous "Middle Eastern" look of the cities across the sea from Westeros, I do think it's kind of funny that even in this fictitious world we still have "Europe" in the west and "Arabia" in the east... Though to be fair, we hardly saw any of Pentos (and it looked more Mediterranean to me than "Middle Eastern"), and Qarth had a pretty distinct look that Astapor didn't bring to mind particularly much.

I want Tyrion's face to be more mutilated.

This I agree with. When they first revealed the wound, it looked pretty big (even if his literary counterpart recieved a much worse injury, from what I understand), if not particularly grievous. Now it's but a glorified scratch.

Speaking of Tyrion; man, the part where Tywin pretty much tells him to go fuck himself regarding who's going to inherit Casterly Rock was really infuriating. It reminded me of how much of a heartless bastard the old Lannister is, which I had forgotten due to his lovely treatment of Arya in the second season.

That was a great scene, eh? I'm always rooting for Tyrrion but Tywin totally ripped him a new asshole and it looks like shit is heading towards the fan. I don't see a problem with Tyrion's wound, in fact I like how Cersei said something like "they said you lost your nose, but it doesn't look too bad" or something, when she sees him. Nice shout out to the books.

Oh yeah, the scene was great, considering it made want to stand up and tell the old bastard to go eat a dick then and there. Also loved the concept of the Immaculate Army (I think that was their name.....); man, those guys seriously went through hell to be what they are, and the fact that their trainer is a complete and utter douchebag doesn't help. Plus, Drogon and his brethren are like three times bigger now

One thing I didn't like though:

Westeros is less "Europe" and more "a really, really big Britain... with Spain stuck on the bottom."


In the books, it's pretty clear that Pentos and the other Free Cities (other than Volantis, maybe) are basically the Italian city-states. Braavos is pretty much Venice.

I'm the guy who dislikes the dragons because of the poor CGI, but I disagree about the scorpion. I could barely tell that it wasn't a practical effect, so I thought it was well done. Loved the shininess and deep scarab green of the exoskeleton (maybe that's why it didn't look too cartoonish).

As for Tywin Lannister, I can't help but like him anyway because of what a badass villain he was in Last Action Hero.

Well, Charles Dance is an awesome actor in general. The perfect choice for Tywin, IMO.

I third the praise for Dance. He's a terrific actor. And man, I hadn't noticed he was the one who played the villain in Last Action Hero. Talk about the passing of time!

^A buddy of mine called him "Take His Shoes" Lannister when he forgot his first name.

Changes to Robb had me eye rolling. His comment about Catelyn denying the Karkstark their vengeance is sooooo NOT ROBB. Ugh, stupid writers. Also, Qyburn's introduction was iffy. And I really, really don't understand where they're going with Shae. [massive ASoS spoilers]

Decent episode otherwise. I'm ok with how they handled Barristan and Margaery. I'm also glad they kept Jon kneeling to the wrong man (and thought his explanation for "defecting" was satisfactory, since they obviously the cut the whole story about Mance's cloak and him being in Winterfell before and having seen Jon and all that) and the funny translations with Missandei (though I wish [minor ASoS spoiler]).
Also, I like TV-Davos a lot more than book-Davos... Liam Cunningham's delicious accent and his vague Jean Reno lookalike appearance might have something to do with it, I admit... >_>

Here I thought they would FINALLY make it to Riverrun in the first episode, but LOLNOPE. I really hope they get him back on track soon, but now that they should be just about done writing him a whole new story, they can go back to Martin's story. I'm not yet sure what to think about Qyburn, but I knew that omitting the Brave Companions was going to cause some problems. Qyburn became one of my favorite characters later on, so I hope they don't screw him up. As for Shae...

If what you say is true regarding Shae, (massive ASoS spoilers)

Regarding Shae (More MASSIVE spoilers)

Tonight's episode kind of negates some of my earlier speculation, but whatever. Overall, I thought it was great! Ok, some of that is because I'm clouded by introductions of characters I've been waiting for, the Reed siblings, the Brotherhood without Banners, and of course Ramsay! Ramsay was such a small tease tonight, but I like where this is potentially going. It doesn't quite make up for my disappointment over his part being cut last season, but it is a start. The Olenna Tyrell segment was fantastic, better than I remember in the books (and I'm glad they kept the subtle and generally irrelevant lemon cake reference). Sure, they didn't have The Bear and the Maiden Fair, but I didn't expect that anyway, and it would have been silly to have that same witty scene with a jester jumping around and singing. In other news, it looks like we may finally see Riverrun (2 seasons late, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for their budget restrictions).

Now, the ending. I liked the Jaime/Brienne fight. I've actually seen quite a few people call it "typical Hollywood feminism." Whatever, that's what happened in the books. Not only that, but as much as the Kingslayer has been hyped up as a great warrior, he had his hands bound and was likely malnourished and out of practice. Who cares, it happened in the book and they stuck to it. Now I'm a bit concerned with what they DIDN'T keep from the books - Vargo Hoat. I knew he was cut along with the majority of the Brave Companions, and I'm sure they'll tie it together somehow, but I rather preferred the "thaphireth" exchange. I'll admit, it would be a bit late in the game to bring Vargo now, but it just seems a bit cheap and far removed from the books to have Bolton men capture them at this point.

This was very much a transition episode with many of the major plot points developing next week, so we'll see what happens. The preview looked particularly promising - especially to appease my Ramsay fanboyism

That episode was weird. It was mostly okay and entertaining, but I hardly recognize the book at all anymore. The only scenes I recognized were Sansa with Olenna Tyrell (also guys make up your mind, Tie-rell or Tee-rell? ) and Jaime vs Brienne. The Joffrey scenes were 100% filler again (yes yes he's a sadistic monster WE GET IT ALREADY), and "Reek" with Theon (which kinda happened in the books but all off-screen). I did grin like a fangirl when the Hound showed up though. This show always needs more Hound.

Regarding the Tyrells, when was (ASoS)

I miss Varys and hope to see him again soon.

Varys is one of my favorite characters in the book and on screen. I hope he comes back soon.

Joffrey's scenes have mostly been pointless filler to drive home his sadistic nature, but for once I was pleased with his parts. Ok, the scene with Cersei was mostly filler, but the scene with Margaery was brilliant. Actually, it was ONE part of the scene with Cersei that really drove it home for me - when Joffrey tells his mother "smart women do as they're told." Ok chauvinistic dickhead, you win this round! Fastforward to the scene with Olenna, where in both the book and the show she is clearly digging for information on Joffrey in order to better find flaws which Margaery can exploit. Here is a smart woman who clearly does NOT do as she is told. Ok, now skip ahead again to the scene with Joffrey and Margaery, Joffrey being his usual sadistic monster self and Margaery endowed with a bit of newfound insight on her future husband. Sure, the scene further and unnecessarily proves Joffrey is an irredeemable cunt (for which there is no cure). But what I really liked about that scene was the way Margaery played him like a violin. I'd go so far as to call that a good Margaery scene and not even a Joffrey scene.

As for Ramsay, I'm kind of excited to see where this goes. One of the strengths of the show for me has always been the "behind the scenes" action, and this is one area which I think I will particularly enjoy. I like where they're going with this so far and ideally the best thing they can do with this is show

I'm still not sure if the Shae/Tyrion this scene disproved or reinforced some earlier speculation. I'm going to hold off until I see more.

Oh yeah, and I always went with Tie-rell

Yep, that's what I liked about the scene too. More of the same from Joffrey, sure, but Margaery is clearly way more clever than he is, and she's playing him hard.

I like their Olenna so far.

Ok, so I've watched it. I was kinds expecting Dany, book readers know what's coming up, I guess it's in next episode.

I'm bit upset about Sam's portrayal, seriously will he always be like that? And the way they reference to Renly, I didn't get he was gay while reading books, I realized it watching the series and that slurping scene with Loras. Now it turns out he was running joke of the seven kingdoms, I bet even Hot Pie knows he was gay.

All other changes are already pointed out by other posters, though I want to say I don't like how characters differ from their counterparts in books, especially Tyrion, he has sinister side in books, how he will



Also, I like how there weren't any boobs in this episode, was this first episode without naked scenes?

I liked the parts with Arya, Thoros of Myr is awesome! But the parts with Cathelyn are WTF STOP THIS SHIT. Man, this is even more filler than Joffrey + Cercei. At least the boring "I don't want flowers on my jacket" will serve a clear purpose=

The parts with Jaime and Brienne were well done too, shame that Vargo Goat got replaced though

I want to see more of Dany and Arya and less of Shae, please. Sansa's scene wasn't boring this time, like TBIB said, Olenna is cool.

I was discussing this just yesterday on here. Read the spoiler tagged conversation just up the page if you're interested. That said...

I like hearing the theme music, especially at 1:32 when it gets all operatic and epic sounding. I always think of Ned Stark and horrors that have befallen the Stark family.

Yeah, the woman who plays Shae is a suprisingly good actress, considering that she used to make hardcore porn.

If Game of Thrones was on MTV or Fox, Shae would had been played by Sasha Grey and Tyrion by Verne Troyer. Ok, I want to see that NOW!

What if... What if GoT was really just a ploy by HBO to introduce proper acting and plots into pornography?!

Weird, most people keep saying she's terrible.

I have little opinion on the matter, because I find her accent distracting and they changed her character so much from the book that I can't really judge her properly.

Yeah, I'm really not a fan of TV-Shae. I'll be extremely unhappy if the speculation here about her ultimate fate turns out to be true. What a way to ruin Tyrion's character.

Yeah, exactly. What the hell, people, slow-moving dialogue scenes aren't automatically "filler." A lot of these develop the emotional/manipulation/power dynamics between characters and deepen understanding of their motivations and psychology. Feels weird even having to say that. Some are more substantial than others, though.

What the hell was Catelyn on about with her speech regarding Jon? She was making it sound like she thinks her inability to love Jon caused all the Starks' misfortunes. That was fucking out of nowhere, unless she's taking it to some religious guilt place (it's all my fault! everything, always!) that was just sort of badly written and ambiguous.

And yeah, the Shae actress is pretty bad... though acting in a language that isn't your own has always gotta be awkward.

Yeah, I really didn't like that Catelyn scene, it was weird and didn't work for me. Even as much of an apologist as I am when it comes to book/show differences, that seemed like a very unnecessary out of character scene. I don't like the way they sugar-coated the Jon/Catelyn relationship on the show. Even if we needed more brooding Cat, she would never reminisce about Jon with such remorse (if and when she even reminisces about him at all).

That scene was beyond retarded and shows the writers have no clue about what kind of character Catelyn is meant to be. They're idiots.

Hmm... seeing as I'm not of The Book People, I can't know where you guys are coming from, precisely, but it did seem like an odd writing choice. Since we're supposed to know that she apparently worships the "new gods," the ones with "all the rules," I assumed maybe she was viewing her oath-breaking weakness as some guilty stain that was bringing divine wrath down upon her house. That was really the only sense I could make of all that. Having not read the novels I couldn't tell if she was supposed to be really religious and have martyr fantasies or something and they just hadn't brought that across well enough in earlier seasons. Or...or what. I also thought that the "remorse" and "reminiscence" Messiah_X mentioned might alternatively be interpreted more as self-loathing and self-pity than anything... not that she felt bad about Jon's misfortune but rather her own. Again...not a book person.

Also, anyone else think the long-anticipated fight between Jaime and Brienne was one of the dullest parts of the episode? Who's with me?!? Eh... You'd think HBO could afford a decent fight choreographer.... though come to think of it, none of the fight scenes in this show have been very good.

Oh and another thing. Are we given to understand that some huge fight went down between the Night's Watch and the undead army north of the wall? The way the Crows were talking this episode made it seem that way, yet the only evidence we saw of a possible battle in the first episode was one (1) beheaded watchman. Unless I'm remembering wrong... And the group that saved Sam's ass seemed more like a rescue party than some battle force. If there was a massive fight, why weren't more of our familiar Crow faces gone? How did they find Sam so quickly? Where the hell are the undead now? This all might be clarified more later on, but as of now Benioff & Weiss got sum 'splainin' da do.

Yes, there was a battle that wiped out the majority of the Watch expedition. It happened "on screen" in the books and it was awesome, taking place at night and with a fucking zombie bear, and I was unhappy with its removal.

The group that find Sam are meant to be the bloodied remnants.

I think the clunky nature of the Jaime-Brienne fight made sense, as Jaime was tied up for a long time, probably malnourished, and rusty as hell with a sword. At the end it seemed obvious that Brienne was just toying with him.

Also I hate how the show writes out basically all the battle scenes (except for Blackwater). The ongoing battle between the NW and wights and Others was such a tense part of the book, but in the show it looked like almost nothing happened. Also, when I read that part of the book I pictured the fight as basically being in the middle of a blizzard, but in the show there was no snow falling. I think Sam's collapse would have been more believable if the weather was harsher.

I also hated that Catelyn scene, but really liked all the Margaery scenes (just for the dialogue, I swear!).

Yeah, the Night Watch scenes were terrible. All the sense of urgency from Sam's escape is gone, there is no blizzard, no pursuing supernatural enemies, hell you don't even know what really happened. I understand budget restrictions, but really, a toned-down version of the battle of the Fist couldn't have been possible? Just hide most of the effects required through a blizzard veil, come on.

Yeah the Battle of the Fist is not only tense and good, but also important. what the fuck ..


Oh good. So things are going well, then. Jeez this last page is making me not want to bother watching.

Well, I'm a harsh purist. To be fair, it was just an individual scene that alone didn't ruin the episode. But I'm not sure what to think of this episode. I think I just really don't like Vanessa Taylor's writing. The very best scenes of the episodes were those ripped straight from the book: Tyrion and Tywin, Sansa and Lady Olenna, and the Jaime vs Brienne fight (I wanted the "wench" lines though ). Some added scenes were pretty good (if redundant, like the Margaery scenes with Joffrey, and Theon), others were just plain bad.

I support that. It isn't like they're just cutting out huge parts to make it fit in a given time frame (the way people have done for ages with Shakespeare, hacking at will). They're basically rewriting an already written and perfectly good story .. and doing so poorly, apparently. But maybe that's an overstatement..

OK, let's diverge a bit to books since there's no books thread (or is there?). Martin says he wrote quarter of the winds of winter. That's around 400 pages, if twow turns to be 1500 pages long.
Now, he said he cut 200 pages from dance and will put them into winds, which means he wrote 200 pages in two years, since dance was released. Which is terribly slow.

Now, what I wonder, besides will he finish it, does he actually want to finish books? He's getting involved more with HBO and the series. So I wonder what if he actually prefers not writing last two books and doing it as TV series? I know it sounds outrageous, but seriously, he's hardly progressing and show will catch with books. And he said he told producents how it ends in general and I presume series will go on no matter if he finishes books or not.

Your thoughts on this?