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failsafeman
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:26 am 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
That's the one. It's frequently cited as one of the most messed up movies ever but it looks like shit. A morbid curiosity viewing at best.

Horror movies that try to be scary and disturbing primarily through gore or cheap, manipulative shocks are so lame. Pretty much everyone knows Saw and Hostel are shit and if you're just watching them for brainless entertainment that's fine, but there are people who genuinely think tripe like A Serbian Film has serious value. The problem with those movies is that there's pretty much never anything interesting about them aside from the gratuitous violence. Take that away and you have nothing left, like a porno without the fucking.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:45 am 
 

The first Saw is a great thriller, Hostel is blah, and A Serbian Film I wish I had never seen because of the baby fucking.

Gore can be used to great positive effect, like in The Thing. A lot of the time though, especially since Saw sequel-inspired torture films became a thing, it's just used in place of actually telling a (good) story or building real suspense.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:49 am 
 

That goes without saying, failsafeman, and my post reflects that.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:11 am 
 

Just finished another found footage child abduction movie called Amber Alert. It stays as a thriller throughout pretty much the whole movie with the only horror elements coming into the picture in the last 15 or 20 minutes. The deal with this movie is that two best friends are making an audition video for a reality show, and while driving to the place they're gonna make the last part of the video at they see an Amber Alert on the highway. As they're driving, they see a car that matches the description of the car listed in the Amber Alert and decide to follow it. The brother of the female friend is the person holding the camera, so he's along for the ride too, although nothing really happens with him until the last 10 minutes. Most of the movie is them in the car following this guy and arguing about whether or not they should follow him, and quite honestly it is grating a lot of the time. However, just like with Megan is Missing, the ends justify the means through the ending. Spoilers follow.

Spoiler: show
The way the movie climaxes and ends is through the last 20 minutes where they find the house that this guy took the kidnapped child to after having heard him say the street name through the collar microphone one of them placed in the back of his car earlier in the movie at a gas station (since they have the camera, they plugged the auxiliary channel of said camera into the car's radio in place of headphones so they could hear what was being said). When they get to the house and the guy goes to the store for a brief spell, the main characters, Nate and Samantha, rush into the house to get the little girl and get out. They explore the broken down, fucked up house for about 10 minutes looking for the girl, before eventually finding her locked in a dog cage in a hidden room. The guy returns as they open the cage and get her out, shooting the brother character with a gun he has. As they start to try and leave the house with the girl, Samantha tells Nate to turn the camera's flashlight off. Every 30 seconds or so he turns it on for a brief moment to light the way, until the last time he does so we see the kidnapper behind her with the gun to her head. He shoots her in the head and a brief gunfight ensues where both Nate and the kidnapper are killed. An ending title card tells us that all three died quickly or instantly, the brother was not killed, and the little girl was unharmed.


When the movie picks up in the last 20 minutes, they really pick up and are filled with a LOT of tension and suspense. When the movie drags though, it drags really badly. The arguing between the two mains will very quickly get on your nerves, but if you can make it through that (which unfortunately takes up most of the movie) then you're in the clear. All in all, very flawed movie with an excellent climax and ending.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:33 am 
 

Just watched An American Crime and The Girl Next Door, both were not disturbing, just unpleasant to watch. The Girl Next Door plays as a Stand By Me but instead of a dead body it's a cartoonishly-wicked Aunt who takes pleasure in tormenting and torturing two girls. An American Crime is similar but is based more closely with the actual case of Sylvia Likens, who was abused and killed by Gertrude Baniszewski. The one thing that I found unsettling in both wasn't Aunt Ruth or Gertrude but the way the children behave during scenes of torture, watching their innocence be taken away and becoming active participants was a little sick. The actress who played Gertrude was believable although the portrayal of 'an implied cause' probably wasn't necessary, while the actress who played Aunt Ruth was almost comical, possibly due to the shoddy dialogue, her approach was just strange and unrealistic on every level. If you want a dank and depressing movie; An American Crime is the better of the two.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:01 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Gore can be used to great positive effect, like in The Thing. A lot of the time though, especially since Saw sequel-inspired torture films became a thing, it's just used in place of actually telling a (good) story or building real suspense.

Sure, The Thing is a great example of shocking, gory effects used well. Of course the rest of the film is a masterpiece as well; one thing that's always struck me about that film is how tight the screenplay is. There are twelve members of the research team, and you get a good feel for who each of them are without any kind of ham-fisted backstory sequences, rather it's all done through brief but illuminating interaction and how each reacts to the increasingly horrific situation. I haven't seen the movie in over a year, but I can remember each of those twelve guys and generally who they are. It's really a masterpiece of deft characterization.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:50 pm 
 

Yup, The Thing is immaculate. That one and Halloween are my favorite Carpenter films. The Thing like FSM said is just great characterization, and really makes you care about these people despite the fact that there are so many of them, they all look and act alike at first blush and there is so much else going on. And despite that it's also phenomenally scary and out of this world. Just a grade-A horror flick.

As for gore, yeah, basically agreed with everyone else - it's why I hated Martyrs so much and I pretty much don't see a point in ever watching Human Centipede, Serbian Film, etc - I already know I won't like them. Another type of awful gore is the kind where they include shocking/taboo things just to say 'wow, that's gross' instead of actually telling a good story with it...i.e. Silent House, a repugnant movie that I detested.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:55 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Sure, The Thing is a great example of shocking, gory effects used well. Of course the rest of the film is a masterpiece as well; one thing that's always struck me about that film is how tight the screenplay is. There are twelve members of the research team, and you get a good feel for who each of them are without any kind of ham-fisted backstory sequences, rather it's all done through brief but illuminating interaction and how each reacts to the increasingly horrific situation. I haven't seen the movie in over a year, but I can remember each of those twelve guys and generally who they are. It's really a masterpiece of deft characterization.


I so agree with all of that! Just brilliant how the characters come to life without silly and awkward exposition!

Also, can't help but put this part, which always makes me laugh my ass off in an otherwise really tense film:

Spoiler: show
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:21 pm 
 

Don't mention Martyrs in the same breath as those turds, Empyreal. It's a great movie.

Saw Silver Linings Playbook in my ongoing quest to gain Snowgrave's approval. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. The acting is surprisingly great from everyone involved (especially Bradley "I made the Hangover and Limitless but now I'm figuring out I should maybe try that acting thing" Cooper). Sure the message is pretty unrealistic and the ending is predictable, but it's a tightly paced, well characterized film with a somewhat accurate portrayal of mental illness. Also DeNiro isn't given that much to do, but he does it well. Which is a first I've seen from him in the last ten years of so.
There are certain things that shouldn't work (a dance competition filled with urgency!) but somehow do, and I wasn't overly impressed with Lawrence, even though she's never looked prettier, but for some reason it kept my attention the whole way through and I never once glanced at my watch.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:31 pm 
 

Some people put up some good arguments for it, but I never liked it at all.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:40 pm 
 

Martyrs was interesting. It was an experience. Not sure if I liked/disliked it.

I was expecting something like Haute Tension and it's definitely something in its own league, whatever league that may be.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:15 pm 
 

The league of New French Extremity.

Haute Tension I saw years ago on VOD and I loved it.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:10 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
Martyrs was interesting. It was an experience. Not sure if I liked/disliked it.

That's kind of my opinion; I definitely wouldn't put it in the same category as A Serbian Film, as it definitely had some good parts to it (I especially liked the ending), but I had problems with the pacing being rather disjointed, and how the story was basically comprised of two halves with little relation to one another. Once the second girl is captured, her relationship to the first girl doesn't matter anymore, and she could have been anyone. It might have been interesting if they had tried telling it out of chronological order (there were some flashbacks to their childhood, but nothing that significant). Also the resolution to the first girl's story was just plain weak - "it's all in her head" is a really lame conclusion when that's the most obvious, least interesting one. They made it out to be supernatural at first, but then it just ended up being schizophrenia or something. I wasn't impressed. Still, the movie did have weight, and I thought the ending was actually pretty compelling.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:16 pm 
 

That was basically my assessment. Messy pacing, jumbled up parts with nothing to do with one another and numerous plotholes...really doesn't work as a good 'extreme/shocking' kind of film when you have so many problems with the basic tenets of filmmaking I don't think. Just didn't do anything for me.

Haute Tension I thought was amazing though - one of the only films to ever really scare me. It doesn't now, since I've seen it a couple of times, and the novelty has worn off, but its complete sickness is just so engrossing for some reason. It just immerses itself in disease and putrid hatred. Like Megan is Missing it's just one of those really effective movies at hammering in the fear. Though Megan is Missing I'd say is probably the worst of humanity captured on film, Haute Tension is a more 'traditional' horror story just done up with one motherfucker of a whallop in the first third - I mean holy shit.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:45 pm 
 

Haute Tension I also think is one of those movies where the violence supplements the story. It's a movie that puts emphasis on suspense that just happens to be really gory, especially when it comes to things like the car driver getting sliced to pieces with a saw. The gore doesn't overtake the story and become the main reason for watching like a lot of films that have been released since its release.

Also, going back once again to Megan is Missing, I honestly feel that that movie is a damn great example of how to do a found footage movie properly. It's presented as actual footage that you could conceivably believe is real (aside from a few points like some of the first half and the newscast scenes), it places emphasis on both suspense and freaking the viewer the fuck out without resorting to endless jump scares (in fact, there's only one jump scare in the entire movie, and it works incredibly well because you don't expect it at all), and, unlike many other found footage movies that do this for some idiotic reason, there's no score. One thing that drives me up the wall with some found footage films is that they put a film score in there, completely negating the purpose of being a found footage movie. The Last Exorcism did this, and even though I quite liked the movie, the fact that its got backing in music in places really takes me out of the movie's element. That and the fact that the ending has traditional movie style editing that also negates its found footage style. At least justify it by having more than one camera in the scene like in the big fight at the end of Chronicle where they levitate three dozen cameras into the sky with them during their fight that's edited like a traditional superhero movie fight.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:55 pm 
 

I think the stark and effective imagery and pretty much kick ass ending negated those small flaws in Martyrs. Though I didn't notice many of these plot-holes Empyreal speaks of. For all it's outlandishness, the story was pretty straightforward. Though I do think the skinned girl would have died pretty fucking fast.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:58 pm 
 

That's something I've noticed in some movies also, that characters who have their skin removed last an unnatural amount of time alive before dying. X is for XXL from The ABCs of Death I think is the worst offender here as the main character in that segment literally saws off every single inch of skin on her body exposing muscle and organs, and not only do none of her guts fall out of her, but she stays alive for a good 2 minutes after completely removing her skin before dying.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:09 am 
 

Haute Tension has one of the worst endings ever. A completely unnecessary twist ending that not even Shyamalan would sink to. Nothing like a twist ending that makes absolutely no sense, that upon reflection lays huge gaping holes throughout the movie.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:53 am 
 

Yeah, as I mentioned with Martyrs, I hate the "it was all in their head" endings, unless it's really, really cleverly done. Fight Club bothered me for the same reason; the twist seemed so forced, and totally unnecessary. The movie would have been a lot better if it had just been about two guys. At this point that kind of ending is super fucking cliche to the point of being really irritating; didn't Blair Witch 2 also pull that crap?
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:59 am 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Though I didn't notice many of these plot-holes Empyreal speaks of.


Haven't seen it in like 5 years, but...

Spoiler: show
I just don't buy that anyone would stick with that crazy girl long enough for the movie to progress in the way it does, without just saying 'OK, this is pretty fucked up here, let's get out of here.' Especially not a nice girl like the main character was...and I also really, really didn't buy that that house, with children and everything, had that secret torture dungeon hidden it in the whole time. Unless they were implying that the kids knew all about it and were okay with it, which I dunno, I just doubt that.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:45 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Yeah, as I mentioned with Martyrs, I hate the "it was all in their head" endings, unless it's really, really cleverly done. Fight Club bothered me for the same reason; the twist seemed so forced, and totally unnecessary. The movie would have been a lot better if it had just been about two guys. At this point that kind of ending is super fucking cliche to the point of being really irritating; didn't Blair Witch 2 also pull that crap?


It did, but it wasn't anywhere near as good a movie as Fight Club was.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:49 am 
 

:lol: Oh really?
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:21 am 
 

As much as one may not like Fight Club, it was FAR more competently put together than Blair Witch 2.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:46 am 
 

Tell me more.
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waiguoren
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:56 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
As much as one may not like Fight Club, it was FAR more competently put together than Blair Witch 2.


Nonsense. There's a reason Blair Witch 2 consistently makes Top 5 horror movie lists of all time.
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shouvince
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:51 am 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Saw Silver Linings Playbook in my ongoing quest to gain Snowgrave's approval. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. The acting is surprisingly great from everyone involved (especially Bradley "I made the Hangover and Limitless but now I'm figuring out I should maybe try that acting thing" Cooper). Sure the message is pretty unrealistic and the ending is predictable, but it's a tightly paced, well characterized film with a somewhat accurate portrayal of mental illness. Also DeNiro isn't given that much to do, but he does it well. Which is a first I've seen from him in the last ten years of so.
There are certain things that shouldn't work (a dance competition filled with urgency!) but somehow do, and I wasn't overly impressed with Lawrence, even though she's never looked prettier, but for some reason it kept my attention the whole way through and I never once glanced at my watch.


Yup, I enjoyed it as well. I posted about it here quite sometime back but I couldn't be arsed to search for it :) It's your atypical rom-com done right and very engaging. As you rightly mentioned, tightly paced. Not to be just wooed by her prettiness, I thought JLaw was brilliant. My only introduction to her were mainly the X-men and Hunger Games movies and some of the other small cameo roles she played. But, in my opinion, for her to take it the next level and play a more mature cathartic volatile woman was quite admirable. Her performance felt so real, is all I'm saying.
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lord_ghengis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:56 pm 
 

I saw Django last night, and it was quite a surprise how much of a comedy it was. Don't get me wrong, it was about the most entertaining thing ever, but Tarantino seemed to really push up the silliness and jokes, it really is a comedy before anything else. His films are usually so slick and stylized that I usually watch them with a big grin on my face, but this time it's less "That was cool/crazy" and more "that was hilarious", scenes like the KKK meeting are there purely for laughs, and it's a new experience for him. This did leave the contrasting scenes of really brutal, uncomfortable violence (the dogs, the mandingo fight, as oppossed to the entertaining bloodbaths that are the shootouts) seeming really out of place. He has had these sort of scenes before, think the baseball bat scene (admittedly, some people found it funny, I found it quite brutal), or giving the nazi a sympathetic backstory and young family and lively disposition before mercilessly executing him in Inglorious Basterds, but at least there you had the knowledge that they were goddamned nazis, and the film was entertaining in a clever, stylish manner, whereas these are innocent people dying painfully and slowly, and the film throws these brutal scenes in between townsfolk running away from seeing a black guy on a horse and Samuel L Jackson going off hilariously about letting Django in the house.

With that said, it is funny as hell, and the violence is as over the top as possible, it's definitely childish with penises exploding, Quintin's own demise, guys getting caught in the middle of the crossfire and just getting blasted into mountains of soupy goo, but it's a fun ride. If anything it's probably his least well put together film, there isn't much suspense here, with only one real intense scene where Candy knows Schultz and Django are liars and keeps it to himself as he messes with them before an explosion of rage, similar to Christoph's role in IB, well acted by Leo as usual, but it isn't half as intense. Many of the issues that befall the protagonists are solved in a comedic manner, such as the Australians, or every time Schultz gets angry mobs off his back after killing a bounty, which makes the whole film a lot lighter and less genuinely brilliant, settling in for merely entertaining as hell.

At any rate, it's a very fun movie, worth the entrance price of Samuel L Jackson's old slave hating slave with crazy eyes alone, and there really isn't anything else like it around. I'd also watch a TV show spin off of Christoph Waltz just riding around, collecting bounties, he's a ridiculously watchable actor.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:02 pm 
 

I loved Django to death. It was the movie that finally topped Kill Bill as my favorite Tarantino movie, and not even Basterds was able to do that.
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shouvince
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:29 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Christoph Waltz...he's a ridiculously watchable actor.

THIS.

Anyway, the past two odd pages have been filled with horror/gore/torture movies, a genre of film, that I most certainly avoid because I quite frankly can't stomach such things. But on the other hand, I enjoy monster-centric horror movies. I admittedly haven't watched too many though. I enjoyed the Fly when I saw many years ago. Also, the obvious and obligatory Godzilla, Jaws, Thing mentions.

So what are the some of the best ones out there?

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:34 pm 
 

The Host is a great monster movie from South Korea. The CGI of the monster itself is kinda dated due to movie coming out in 2006, but that's no big deal when the rest of the movie is as good as it is.

Also, even though there are a lot of people that don't like it, I say give Cloverfield a shot. I enjoyed it a lot, and you might too.
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shouvince
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:38 pm 
 

I've seen Cloverfield. I thought the whole PoV camera was kinda gimmicky in the beginning but then I got used to it in the theater. Yeah, a decent movie. I'll give the Host a watch.

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HydroDrone
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:44 pm 
 

Original Dawn of the Dead.

The scene where the bikers take the mall. Fuck yeah.

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PhilosophicalFrog
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:45 pm 
 

Monster movies?

Have you seen the classics, man? The Karloff, Price era? Some of my favorites ever.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:50 pm 
 

Speaking of Vincent Price, the two go-to movies involving him are The Pit and the Pendulum and The Masque of the Red Death. The former I first saw in my 7th grade English class when we were doing stuff relating to Poe, and the latter I discovered through the samples of it used on "And When He Falleth" from Velvet Darkness They Fear. Two classic movies and among the best of Roger Corman's body of work.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:12 pm 
 

The Masque of the Red Death is simply classic.
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shouvince
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:19 pm 
 

Frog, I haven't :/ Not in this particular genre. But all for the better coz I get a chance to do so now (Y) Thanks for some of the recommendations, guys.

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volutetheswarth
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:19 pm 
 

shouvince wrote:
I enjoy monster-centric horror movies. I admittedly haven't watched too many though. I enjoyed the Fly when I saw many years ago. Also, the obvious and obligatory Godzilla, Jaws, Thing mentions. So what are the some of the best ones out there?

I remember enjoying Dog Soldiers quite a bit when it came out. It's made by Neil Marshall who also made the The Descent. I felt the werewolves were really done well and there wasn't any CG from what I recall. The characters are tough as shit so it doesn't fall into that 'woe is me, victim' predictability trap.

Cloverfield is one of my favourite found footage movies, admittedly there are very few that are actually good. There were many long continuous shots throughout that made it seem quite real and it's hard to predict what will happen to the characters or where they will go. There is hardly any waiting around or long shots of nothing happening which is a welcome relief, of course there are some scenes with characters arguing/complaining that verge on annoying but it's was all very a-grade and nothing ever verges on being painful to watch. The movie's flow is similar to the original REC in my opinion.

Jeepers Creepers is another modern monster movie that I'd recommend. It starts off as a Duel type thriller and progresses into a cat and mouse horror. It's very self-aware and pokes fun at it's self like the crop of movies that came out in 00's so there is a sense of realism and relatability, except the killer is truly memorable and iconic.

I'd also quickly suggest Feast if you like silly horror/comedies, it's similar to From Dusk Till Dawn and Tremors.

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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:37 pm 
 

I don't like Cloverfield at all, but Feast looks sweet. The plot is almost exactly the same as Dusk Till Dawn and I love that flick.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:49 pm 
 

It actually started as a Project Greenlight film, in the third season of the show they selected Feast. It's worth a watch.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:53 pm 
 

Movie of the now: Murder Collection V.1. It's yet another found footage style movie (I seem to be on a kick with those at the moment) that takes on an anthology format showing various "real" murders. Wikipedia says it takes inspiration from the old mockumentaries of the 70s and 80s like Mondo cane and Faces of Death (it even has a Dr. Gross style character appearing in bumpers for the footage). It looks to be infinitely more serious than The ABCs of Death was, so let's see what it's all about.

EDIT: Just finished it. Murder Collection V.1 was, for the most part, pretty boring. A couple of the segments were so short they didn't really need to be in there, and a couple were very overly long and either monotonous or insufferably annoying. A few segments work really well, and at the very least all the footage looks incredibly real. Not something I'm probably ever gonna watch again though.
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