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EpicSceptic
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 419
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:34 am 
 

Hey dudes

I've recently discovered Virus (Nor) and I must say that it's probably my greatest discovery of the past decade save Voivod. Which brings me to my request, I'm looking for bands similar to Voivod and Virus. I've heard the term avant garde thrown at Virus, not entirely sure where that tag comes in. Is it because of the minor neoclassical vibes here and there reminiscent of Ulver's post black metal releases?

So anything progressive and jazzy like the above mentioned bands.

EDIT: It seems this sound works best for me when the music is routed in the thrash/hard-rock like Voivod and whatever the fuck Virus falls under. So lets cull black metal and death metal from the recs, as the extreme nature of these genres blow the subtlety of the music in question out of the water.

By the way, I have heard VBE, but I don't think it's really as good as any of the Virus releases. So throw some stuff at me with a similar, progressive, weird, dissonant, jazzy sound.


Last edited by EpicSceptic on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lsid
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:41 pm
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:41 pm 
 

If you are looking for metal with distinct jazz influences then you could maybe give Ephel Duath a try. Out of the bands you listed the only one I listen to is Ulver (both early and post) and Ephel Duath is nothing like that really. In my opinion Ephel Duath's album The Painter's Palette is a gem. Took me many spins to fully appreciate, but I can understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Here is the 1st track from that album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX9cgbNMMEo

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Inspector_Satan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 567
Location: Living in the cosmic nod
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:49 pm 
 

I second Ephel Duath, their "Pain Necessary to Know" album is highly reccomended as well

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henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3138
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:00 pm 
 

Check out Whirling. http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Whirling/3540301105
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EpicSceptic
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 419
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:05 am 
 

Thanks for the recommendations guys. Ephel Duath is interesting. Loved the intro to Chrystaline Twirl, but then the vocals kind of ruined it for me. They aren't terrible, but they don't fit the music very well IMO. Reminds me of the vocalist from the band Refused. I'll check out more of their tracks.

Whirling isn't bad either. I see it's their first album, so I'll definitely keep my eye on them.

EDIT: I've gone through more Ephel Duath tracks, and so far it doesn't seem like any two of their songs are alike, a little disjointed.

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EpicSceptic
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 419
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:12 am 
 

Hmm... I found this, which is closer to what I'm looking for: Yurei



Looking for tracks with a bit more energy, but this is definitely very cool.

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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2398
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:04 pm 
 

Quite obvious might sound, but VED BUENS ENDE is what you're looking for. Also, check Manes and Fleurety.
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Inspector_Satan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 567
Location: Living in the cosmic nod
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:43 pm 
 

EpicSceptic wrote:
Thanks for the recommendations guys. Ephel Duath is interesting. Loved the intro to Chrystaline Twirl, but then the vocals kind of ruined it for me. They aren't terrible, but they don't fit the music very well IMO. Reminds me of the vocalist from the band Refused. I'll check out more of their tracks.

EDIT: I've gone through more Ephel Duath tracks, and so far it doesn't seem like any two of their songs are alike, a little disjointed.


Did you listen to multiple tracks from the same albums? He changes style pretty drastically with each release but I remember his first 3 full lengths being fairly coherent. Unfortunately he never had the benefit of a good singer though.

None of these are really similar to Virus or Whirling but they all have varying degress of jazz influence and it seems like you're casting a wide net so maybe there's something you haven't already heard here.

Shining (nor): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7Fh_Y2Lkg
Blackjazz is a pretty wild mix of black and industrial with a horn section. The album closes with a pretty awesome version of "21'st Century Schitzoid Man."

Klabautamann: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsn2m21eCVE
More black/jazz mix

Coprofago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDF-DBRq5Xw
A little bit Alan Holdsworth and a lotta bit Meghuggah. The jazzy sections here are exceptionally well done

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Ricin
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:25 pm
Posts: 101
Location: The Crown of Sidley
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:16 pm 
 

UZUMAKI
HA
I promoted it before the guy who made it could
Though its actually more death metal
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EpicSceptic
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 419
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:03 am 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
Quite obvious might sound, but VED BUENS ENDE is what you're looking for. Also, check Manes and Fleurety.


Thanks but as I stated in the op I have heard VBE, they're good but I enjoy Virus much more.

@Inspector_Satan
Yea I listened to various track from 3 albums. It certainly wasn't bad, I feel that the "avant-garde" tag fits Ephel Duath like a glove, which is why it's strange to me that it is applied to Virus because overall I don't hear the same elements I the music so much. I know Shining and Coprofago. They both have a lot of potential to be great, the former just needs to settle into their sound a bit and the latter needs to find their own, because Coprofago tries A LOT to sound like Meshuggah. The only thing that distinguishes them are the Holdworthian breakdowns, which are awesome I must admit.

Klabautamann was quite interesting, still not exactly what I'm looking for with this thread but I will certainly start digging into their albums.

UZUMAKI is pretty fucking crazy, holy shit. Some really fucked up death metal right there.

Thanks for the recs guys, though I see now that I should scratch black- and death metal for this thread, as the dissonant sound I'm looking for loses it's charm and subtlety at high speeds, thick levels of distortion and with extreme vocals.

I enjoy the sometimes monotonous droning vocals of Czral and Snake, and the eery, subtle rhythmic and chord progressions of the guitars. Yurei is definitely more on track, but as a member of Virus I can hear that he is influenced by Czral and not the other way around.

Keep those recs coming! And thanks again!

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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
Posts: 1533
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:28 am 
 

Doom is usually my first band to recommend in such threads, Japan's own Voivod in a sense (but less metal, more weird, and still existing more-or-less concurrently). Hard to describe them beyond that. Are you interested in any noise rock or experimental hardcore potentially? Carheart is my favorite Virus release by a good amount largely because it's still so active and manic vs the relatively chill wave-like dissonance of their later stuff, and bands like Blind Idiot God, Dazzling Killmen and Condense scratch a similar itch to Voivod-metal for me (and those styles were probably influential on such progressive and dissonant metal bands). In case that's getting too off-topic, Carbonized is another obvious mention, and despite what most people label them, they're hardly a death metal band at all (at least on their experimental stuff).

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GravityLapse
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:55 am 
 

First of all, let me welcome you to the cult of Czral.

Most of the following bands sound closer to VBE than Virus, but you'll probably enjoy most of them to some extent. They also mostly have one fit in the more extreme direction, but for the most part not as aggressive as some of the other stuff posted.

Apocryphal Voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuj9ocNbmpA
Ab Imo Pectore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvQdRSds5Qk
Organ (instrumental, but along similar lines): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_9XhShNSxg
Oranssi Pazuzu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sha2fghj9Zg

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EpicSceptic
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 419
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:45 am 
 

@HamburgerBoy
Doom is really interesting and definitely have all the elements I'm looking for. From square one though it's SO obvious that they're Japanese, which for some reason (not racism) kind of puts me off (much like with Boris and Sabbat) a bit. I'll check out the rest of their discography for sure though as this track was cool overall.
I'm open to literally anything that doesn't stray too far away from Voivod and Virus (for this thread of course).
Blind Idiot God is also pretty cool. It's like a much noisier Rush. Their tracks seem to vary greatly though but I will also dig deeper into their discography.
Btw I know very little Rush, basically not much outside of Moving Pictures, and although I know they are a precursor to pretty much everything mentioned and requested in this thread, I have yet to really appreciate them on their own merit.
Dazzling Killmen didn't grab my attention immediately, but I listened to that track a few times and it made a bit more sense later. Much more noisy, hardcore fused and spastic, yet very enjoyable. Reminds me a bit of Mr. Bungle which is never a bad thing. Also, dude, I found a band called Shellac from a Dazzling Killmen video, you should definitely check them out. Very fucking cool indeed and it actually also fits into this thread nicely.

Condense reminded me of a less doomy Harvey Milk. This track really made me realize that within the subterranean cavity of music we're treading here, one listen to just taste a track is never enough. Another cool noise-rock band.
Carbonized is a lot to take in, I haven't fully wrapped my head around it. It's definitely the most extreme end of the spectrum I'm looking for, but it's still within bounds. Don't get me wrong I love blast beats and the other death metal aesthetics, but as I mentioned before it tends to remove from the eery dissonant grooves which I'm all too fond of.
Overall sick recommendations man. Thanks for taking the time to post 'em!

@GravityLapse
Hahaha, thanks, I didn't know there was really so much interest in Czral. I definitely see a tendency around here (MA forums) to praise VBE far above Virus, which I guess makes sense since the former is a lot more "metal" but based on song-writing I just don't see any competition, time and experience has made Czral a monster song writer. Having said that, I'm a big fan of black metal as well, in fact it's how I got into metal, so...
I'll start off by saying that I know and absolutely adore Oranssi Pazuzu. I think they're the best thing that has happened to black metal in a very very long time. It never occurred to me that they fit the bill quite nicely.
Apocryphal Voice reminds me a bit of the orange pazuzus which is sweeeeeet. A little darker but that's neither a good nor bad thing, just distinguishes them.
Ab Imo Pectore on first impression I was immediately creeped out, in a good way. After the initial creeps disappeared it dawned on me that these guys sound like a hybrid of Urfaust and Jute Gyte. I'm sure you know Urfaust. If not, listen to them right fucking now, and the same goes for Jute Gyte.
Organ sounds blissful. I'm actually listening to it as we speak. Really enjoy the synths, something that I think also fits well in this style or styles of music. Again, reminds me of a less harsh Jute Gyte, this time hybridized with some Oranssi Pazuzu, so be sure to check the former out.
Great recommendations as well man, much appreciated.

Sorry for the lengthy post chaps, but I'm dead serious about this thread so I don't want it to die too quickly. Seems we can help each other out. Maybe one day it can become a stickied thread for all the weird and wonderful music that lies beyond avant-garde and progressive metal.

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1419
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:03 pm 
 

For something a bit Voivod-ish, you might find Lob of Lemmings interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOpakRcV-yY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXA0r_ho6yc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48txL702wAo

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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
Posts: 1533
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:30 pm 
 

Glad you liked those! I'm not so sure that Rush was such a big influence actually; on Nothingface/Angel Rat-era Voivod and such I'd bet they were, but if you're wondering if there are some obligatory Rush albums to gain a fundamental/prototypical appreciation for this kind of music, I don't really think so. But on the subject of progressive rock, King Crimson were early practitioners of weirdo rock, although certainly they played many styles unrelated to this one as well. Definitely check out the whole Red album if you don't already know it.

Shellac is good stuff; I've known them for a while but never delved too deep since they generally seem to lean towards a Fugazi-like post-hardcore than some of the more wall-of-noise-style acts. If you like them, there's a ton of math and noise rock out there to discover. I've never actually really checked out Harvey Milk. What are your favorites regarding them? I've listened to 'Blueberry Dookie' and 'Plastic Eggs' on YouTube just now and can hear the doomy-Condense analogy.

Back on a more metallic subject, Iceburn. M-A rejects them, but I think their first album (Firon, from which that song comes) is at least among the thrashiest of this style of music. Their second album Hephaestus is more in line with the more dissonant noise rock bands, and after that they increasingly incorporated lots of free jazz and experimental stuff. For another that kind of existed as a prototype there's Massacre, as while they have a bit of a funky, punky thing going on with some of their bouncier songs, I'm not aware of many others making music like that in 1981. Shudder to Think's Pony Express Record may be applicable in this discussion too, although they're a bit of a different situation from a lot of these other bands. Hooky and kind of nasally/whiny alt rock vocals and definitely more reserved than anything else mentioned in this thread (the album was released on Epic!), but the guitar work is still quite dissonant and the songs, while short, are sometimes pretty weird structurally. Their other albums (from what I've heard at least) don't really come close though.

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