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Ba Zuulizx Karoth
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:19 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:51 pm 
 

I'm wondering why so many people hate Satanic Warmaster. The guy makes great music and his albums dont all sound the same (though you can definitely tell it was made by Werwolf). Look at his recent demos and then stuff from even 4 years ago. Very different. He consistantly and frequently makes great melodies.

If Warmaster was to start making original or experimental music; look at Mayhem, Satyricon, and Ulver. It can go well or just purely painful.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4747
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:38 pm 
 

Why indeed. Those people must be acting in bad faith. There is definitely no sensible explanation like the ones you have for not liking whatever you don't like.
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"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

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Westvargr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 308
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:01 pm 
 

More of a clown than an artist to me.
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Last.fm

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Veddartha
Apocalyptic Destroyer of Angels

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 922
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:28 pm 
 

Carelian Satanist Madness is a great Back metal álbum. Everything else realeased by him is very mediocre, asíde for some isolated tracks (Distant Blazing Eye for example).
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Nolan_B wrote:
WASP on the Supreme Court right now!


I will vote for whoever makes this happen.

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Horace Bones
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:50 pm
Posts: 41
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:12 pm 
 

CSM is great...I love his contribution to the Aryan Blood split too.

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Lightsbane
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 233
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:50 pm 
 

I think like with many black metal bands people get focussed on his ns ties/leanings and sometimes forget about the actual music

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4747
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:06 pm 
 

Please show one instance of that happening.
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"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

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Acidgobblin
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 2235
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:39 am 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Why indeed. Those people must be acting in bad faith. There is definitely no sensible explanation like the ones you have for not liking whatever you don't like.


:D

I find the whole Nazi/fascist thing in black metal really dull, trite and generally offputting, but if the music is good, I can overlook it. In this case, the music isn't good. Derivative and boring...
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satanic_neumann
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:01 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:42 am 
 

I think some hate on SW is anything but musical aspect, more of personal grudge and internet rumours et cetera. Also, same thing as with Drowning The Light hate, too many releases, thus too much mediocre songs and cheesy promo pictures. Not a huge fan of SW either but there is several really good songs and Strenght & Honour is fucking gold. The True Werwolf is still much better project of him.

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vengefulgoat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
Posts: 977
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:52 am 
 

Strength and Honour is a very good album, there's many mediocrities released under his name and that's maybe why people dislike him, but at most I guess it's about personal issues and various rumuours about his life.

edit: So basically what the poster above said...

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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:51 am 
 

Quintessential Darkthrone clone, I'd rather listen to Transivalnian Hunger.

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iloveblackmetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:30 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:32 pm 
 

I think that the music is good. But the lyrics and the image is fucking stupid. I mean wtf is he? A satanic nazi werewolff?

This is is kinda funny: http://waldemardaninskyjr.blogspot.se/2 ... y-has.html

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Lightsbane
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 233
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:17 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Please show one instance of that happening.


here you go

iloveblackmetal wrote:
I think that the music is good. But the lyrics and the image is fucking stupid. I mean wtf is he? A satanic nazi werewolff?

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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:27 pm 
 

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
The guy makes great music and [...] He consistantly and frequently makes great melodies

John_Sunlight wrote:
Why indeed. Those people must be acting in bad faith. There is definitely no sensible explanation like the ones you have for not liking whatever you don't like.


What are you, high?
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testamentfan
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:15 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:38 pm 
 

I don't really think that that is a question worth pondering about.I mean,some people like SW and some people don't.Virtually any artist is going to have haters and people will say that SW's lyrics are shit and that they don't like his style but that's their opinion.You also expressed your opinion by saying you like his melodies.That's personal.But the fact is that something he does does not please the entire Metalhead community,and so,if you like him you'll hear people say stuff you don't agree with.Everybody has their opinions.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4747
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:39 pm 
 

Lightsbane wrote:
I think like with many black metal bands people get focussed on his ns ties/leanings and sometimes forget about the actual music


Lightsbane wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
Please show one instance of that happening.


here you go

iloveblackmetal wrote:
I think that the music is good. But the lyrics and the image is fucking stupid. I mean wtf is he? A satanic nazi werewolff?


Fail.
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"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6904
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:33 pm 
 

I have a couple SW albums in my possession. They're decent enough from what I have heard but hardly interesting enough to warrant any further purchase. A take it or leave it type of band if you're into old Norwegian style black metal.

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lackofcomprehension
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:28 pm 
 

Personally I enjoy all of the full length albums. Of course there are also some less glorious moments, but overall very good quality on the material.

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slayer85
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:21 pm
Posts: 322
Location: Cleveland,OH
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:10 am 
 

Acidgobblin wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
Why indeed. Those people must be acting in bad faith. There is definitely no sensible explanation like the ones you have for not liking whatever you don't like.


:D

I find the whole Nazi/fascist thing in black metal really dull, trite and generally offputting, but if the music is good, I can overlook it. In this case, the music isn't good. Derivative and boring...


I agree! Metal has no place in politics and bigotry! :finger:
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ancientorder
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 am
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:08 am 
 

slayer85 wrote:
Metal has no place in politics and bigotry!

"Black Metal is about hatred and intolerance, no fucking compromises" -Judas Iscariot

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UNCHAIN_THE_WOLVES
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:19 am
Posts: 430
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:40 am 
 

Satanic Warmaster are just fuckin' awesome, one of my absolute favourite bands... that's my opinion anyway... my advice threadstarter... listen to whatever music you enjoy don't concern yourself with the opinions of others...

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6556
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:56 am 
 

They suck. The fact that Werewolf might or might not be a twat has no bearing on it whatsoever. His greatest deed was paving way for Corvus in Horna.

He wrote one very good song for the Behexen split though.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5010
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:10 pm 
 

I don't see much hate towards the band, mostly indifference. Most of the recurring forms aren't interesting to me - alternating between sections with blasts and a regular backbeat, switching off between a guitar melody taking the lead and the vocals drowning out the rest. It feels stale and stagnant. The guitar melodies aren't as prominent nor clear as a melodic black metal band like early Sacramentum, nor do they have the rock-like hook feeling of something like Vlad Tepes, which is quite an apt comparison for what he seems to be going for. The flow of the songs isn't epic and anthemic like Moonblood, rather it feels directionless and burdensome, forced to continue when there's usually not a natural progression there.

Between a lot of different projects, the guy covers a lot of ground and tries to do a lot of things, but it doesn't progress much nor is it refined. There's a lot of repetition without regard for direction, minimal variation and hardly any transitions that don't feel abrupt. Some of the influences are very clear and pronounced, and those bands did similar things much better. There are quite a few places in SW songs where you hear parts reminiscent of Vlad Tepes' "Drink the Poetry of the Celtic Disciple", but the melodies aren't flowing and memorable, and the progression of that song feels natural, while SW sounds like three parts per song without variation or even having transitions written, just put together.

The emphasis on showmanship and image is just embarrassing when you're posing in front of an altar with a picture of Hitler on it. The music might be worth listening to by now if the guy spent as much time writing transitions as he spent playing dress-up.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/The ... olf/35080#
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Sa ... AAn/349333

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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:09 pm 
 

To be honest I have nothing against Satanic Warmaster or Lauri "Werwolf". The few songs I heard from Satanic Warmaster are pretty decent, traditional black metal without any originality, but catchy at least. Furthermore, the band seems to be good on stage, according to concert videos.

But I have a problem with that kind of bands. Bands who are just fans who reproduce the concept, imagery and music of their favourite bands. Everything tends to confirm this: the cliché artworks (copying the Black legions weird symbols), the cliché songtitles ("Grim forest evil raven wolf etc"), the cliché band pictures... That's why I never made any effort to support or follow Satanic Warmaster in any way.

If this band was just another clone among numerous others, then it wouldn't be a problem at all. The problem is that Satanic Warmaster has had huge success since the early 2000's, and still has huge success. Many current black metal beginners grew up on Satanic Warmaster, and it was already the case 10 years ago.

Let me be clear, I hold nothing against clones. But when a clone has nothing more than the original, and has more success in the end than the original, the whole value system is questioned. Today many youths buy everything released by famous Finnish bands, without even knowing the music of bands who inspired these Finnish clones (the Southern French NS scene, the Black Legions, the 90's Polish scene...). Sometimes these youths even prefer the Finnish clones to the originals, and go as far as bashing the originals. This is a disrespect to the hierarchy of artistic creativity.
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