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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4919
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:20 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Braindead/60777

Currently listed as thrash metal, they later became an alternative rock band with a bit of funk.
Samples: http://www.myspace.com/braindeadpt

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5908
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:03 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Braindead/60777

Currently listed as thrash metal, they later became an alternative rock band with a bit of funk.
Samples: http://www.myspace.com/braindeadpt

Changed.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:23 am 
 

androdion wrote:
There's something that's been bugging me for a while, and do excuse me if I'm stirring old waters here.

Hate have their genre tag as "Death Metal (early), Death/Black Metal (later)", with the later tag probably due to their last album's approach to the sounds of Behemoth. However I can't hear black metal elements in any of their past three albums, as I suppose that the tag distinction is made on Anaclasis. Having the band dressed up in corpse paint doesn't make your music have black metal elements and I do think that they should just be described as "Death Metal".

With that thought in mind let's take a look at Behemoth. No doubt their first three albums are black metal, and no doubt as well that at least Satanica and Thelema.6 present themselves in a black/death sonority. It can be argued that Zos Kia Cultus still has, if barely, some black metal elements though. But what about from Demigod onwards? Where's the black metal in Behemoth's sound? Again I say that having a "black metal aesthetic" when it comes to choosing the wardrobe or the lyrical themes doesn't make your band sound or have elements of black metal in its music. Wouldn't it be more correct and accurate to have the genre tag as Black Metal (early), Black/Death Metal (mid), Death Metal (later)? It's been at least three albums and 8 years without mixing any black metal in there...

I'd like an honest opinion on this subject and not just a straight up dismissal that "things are going to remain as they are", because I do feel that the genre tags can be misleading on both bands. And since this is supposed to be as accurate as humanely possible... :p

By the way, no one revised Minsk's genre tag as well. It's been a while since I mentioned it here.

Hate to quote myself but I was expecting an answer to this.
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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3598
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:39 am 
 

androdion wrote:
Hate to quote myself but I was expecting an answer to this.

Actually, I always wondered this myself. While it's true Hate's later albums had more of a "blackened" feel, I don't think it reflects well enough on their overall musical style as a whole. :confused:

It was probably due to the band's more orthodox approach to DM, and the fact their style evolved into something less standard whilst adopting black metal imagery...
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grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:58 am 
 

Alhadis wrote:
androdion wrote:
Hate to quote myself but I was expecting an answer to this.

Actually, I always wondered this myself. While it's true Hate's later albums had more of a "blackened" feel, I don't think it reflects well enough on their overall musical style as a whole. :confused:

It was probably due to the band's more orthodox approach to DM, and the fact their style evolved into something less standard whilst adopting black metal imagery...

Exactly. But as you I can't find actual black metal elements on their music past the "blackened" aesthetic. Same for modern day Behemoth.
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Pr0nogo
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 85
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:08 pm 
 

Pr0nogo wrote:
Pr0nogo wrote:
What on earth is grind 'n' roll?

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Cor ... 3540338832
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ballgag/74136
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Bender/3540321563
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/SmrZ!/3540323344

http://www.metal-archives.com/search?se ... band_genre

Additionally, I believe the Viking metal tag is being applied way to liberally.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Kin ... 3540295065

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONcF4GDiSUI <--- aside from the intro, what sets this apart from melodic death metal? It actually sounds a lot like God Dethroned, which is more on the blackened side of things.


I feel this may have been ignored.


Still nothing on this.
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:25 pm 
 

King of Asgard has a real viking sound similar to Einherjer and Mithotyn while being similar to Amon Amarth, I guess I could add Melodic Death to their genre but the Viking genre will definitely stay.

As for grind and roll, I guess it's the same thing as black and roll, the genre is mixed with rock and roll influences. I'm not familiar with these bands though.
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Pr0nogo
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:20 am
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:11 pm 
 

I was only questioning grind 'n' roll because it's only applied to four bands on the archives.
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The_Black_Priest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 188
Location: India
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:31 pm 
 

The genre of this band should be changed to Thrash Metal .
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Dementra/12911

Have a look:
http://www.greenozone.com/dementrahome.htm

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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:40 am 
 

Clad in Darkness: progressive/melodic black metal.
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dystopia4
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 3524
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:27 pm 
 

I kind of feel that Giant Squid's (http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Giant_Squid/83500) genre is a bit off. MA lists it as: Progressive/Atmospheric Metal/Rock. I'm assuming the progressive is there because of the "Monster in the Creek" Ep, which is largely Progressive Rock, which is fine. But just having rock at the end by itself at the end doesn't make any sense. I think this tag is there because of "The Ichthyologist", which while hard to define, certainly isn't rock. Also, I feel that Atmospheric Metal is too vague and could mean anything really. I think that it should be changed to either post-metal (which I have finally come to understand means more than just the Neurisis sound) or Doom metal, which "Metridium Fields" and "Cenotes" basically are. On their facebook they describe themselves as progressive rock/post-metal/sludge.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:51 pm 
 

Eh, simply doom metal is quite misleading for them. What they call themselves on FB or some variation thereof seems best to me. (wow, that's a first :P )
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Ogerz001
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:06 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:21 pm 
 

Immortal Cringe should be Technical thrash metal or just plain thrash metal, Not Thrash/Death Metal/Hardcore mess they are labeled as currently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXG_pBCVHZc (rest of the album is all uploaded on this guys channel).

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Charlo
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:05 am
Posts: 140
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:19 pm 
 

Hamka should be changed from "Symphonic Metal" to "Symphonic Power Metal". They are definitely a power metal band first and foremost. You could even go so far as to say "Symphonic Power Metal with Ethnic Music Influences", as the band plays up this feature of their music (their Facebook page calls their genre "Ethnic Metal").

Some samples:

Rising Atlantis
Legends Empire Part II

Thanks and merry fuckin' Christmas!

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SolstafirAquilaria
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:40 am
Posts: 214
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:08 pm 
 

This band, Grey from the United States is listed as simply "doom metal", but judging from what I hear on this song and how the review mentions funeral doom and sludge bands along with a crust edge, I'm going to propose that the genre is just a bit off. I'm not particularly great at identifying specifically what genre this is, but I certainly can tell what it is not.

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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
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Location: India
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:21 am 
 

Was this really necessary? I mean Gothic Metal has always been dubbed as a very illogical term much like Viking metal, Pagan metal, grunge etc. Moreover their sound hasn't changed at all. They've always had that atmospheric edge in their style of death/doom and it's quite common among bands of this typical style.
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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:45 am 
 

Pr0nogo wrote:
I was only questioning grind 'n' roll because it's only applied to four bands on the archives.

Grind 'n' roll is similar to death 'n' roll except the rock elements are embedded into an underlying grindcore mesh, as opposed to death metal.

Blood Duster's later stuff best describes the subgenre (suss out their self-titled release, you'll see what I mean).

doomster999 wrote:
Was this really necessary? I mean Gothic Metal has always been dubbed as a very illogical term much like Viking metal, Pagan metal, grunge etc. Moreover their sound hasn't changed at all. They've always had that atmospheric edge in their style of death/doom and it's quite common among bands of this typical style.

No that's... pure overkill, IMHO. :facepalm: "Melodic Doom/Death Metal (early), Melodic Doom/Death / Gothic Metal (now)" is an eyesore... o0;
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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absurder21
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 673
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:02 am 
 

Soooo, Agalloch... your probably sick about talking about em, but Atmospheric Folk/Doom Metal, Post-rock/Metal? I mean, I get why maybe you aren't down to use the term Dark metal (although the band does seem quite similar to the likes of October Falls and Empyrium, and Faustian Echoes is kinda like Bethlem), but there's a huge black metal influence in there (the debut is pure Ulver worship, a few songs on The Mantle, and Marrow jumps back on to a lot of black metal tendencies, with Faustian Echo mainly being black metal orientated). Their metal riffing is mostly trebly tremelo picked powerchords more so than thick, slowly strummed, heavy riffs. Just can't see doom being the predominate metal influence there.

Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiIVluxcXNs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIF0d4PLsjY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1BBI072etY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOhBbaY3ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQitsTvGvko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ih3JVrRPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0TN90YfPFQ

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1414
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:30 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Level/3540332957

I had subbed this band's genre based on info from a friend coupled with info from Dee's own website. Possibly the first EP was thrash and that's what my friend was going on, but I wouldn't bother, personally.

The genre should be Groove/Doom Metal.

Samples from the last two releases here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/deebrianc/videos?view=0
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androdion
Metal freak

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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:04 pm 
 

Kind of late to the party since the modification was made back in December, but I was browsing through The Gathering's page and noticed that the genre is now "Death/Doom Metal (early), Atmospheric Doom Metal (mid), Atmospheric Rock (later)".

Who am I to question one of the site's owners, but with that being said, why did you remove the "Gothic Metal" tag Morrigan? And I'm genuinely sorry if this has been posted before.
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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1419
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:05 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Kind of late to the party since the modification was made back in December, but I was browsing through The Gathering's page and noticed that the genre is now "Death/Doom Metal (early), Atmospheric Doom Metal (mid), Atmospheric Rock (later)".

Who am I to question one of the site's owners, but with that being said, why did you remove the "Gothic Metal" tag Morrigan? And I'm genuinely sorry if this has been posted before.


Don't know..I'd consider Mandylion and Nighttime Birds as milestones in gothic metal, the former more than the latter, but still.

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androdion
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:28 pm 
 

Thus my question.
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androdion
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:32 pm 
 

So... is it too much to give out an explanation on the The Gathering matter? I would like to understand the reasoning made towards changing the genre tag to how it is nowadays. Please?! :roll:
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:08 pm 
 

What albums do you consider gothic metal? Mandylion? Planet? This is not really gothic for me.

And I'm sure you know there's more important stuff than this, eh?
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androdion
Metal freak

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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:26 pm 
 

And is it really doom? It doesn't bother me that much if that's what you're asking, I just thought it was a weird choice of genre tags. But let's leave it at that then.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:37 pm 
 

Are you one of those who thinks slow music with a female singer is "goth metal"?
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:45 pm 
 

I think they're in the same category early Madder Mortem is actually, atmo doom with a female singer.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:17 pm 
 

No need for being condescending Morri, answering as Tony did would more than suffice. You guys run the show and decide how to tag bands according to your views of what metal and its sub-genres is, but people are bound to come over here and inquire about something they might feel as awkward or unfitting. It's just that, I was curious as to why the genre was changed like that.

With that being said, I wouldn't describe mid-period The Gathering (1995-1998) as "doom", but then again that's just my opinion, however disparate it may be to yours.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:21 pm 
 

It was snarky, but a legitimate question. Instead of asking why I took off the gothic tag, why don't you tell us why you think it's gothic?
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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androdion
Metal freak

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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:31 pm 
 

Point taken. :)

To be perfectly honest I always saw Mandylion and Nighttime Birds as gothic metal, more or less like a feminine version of what Draconian Times was doing at the time. That whole solemn atmosphere and the way the music was structured always made me look at it like that. Granted I haven't heard those albums for a long time now, I usually go back to HTMAP? or Souvenirs, which then again are even more hard to categorize than the rest. So since I can't exactly make a case that would stick I won't. I've been wanting to tackle that period for reviewing purposes (1995-2003) so I might just do that and voice my sentiments better. ;)

As I said before, I was just curious because I never had thought of them as being anywhere near doom, thus me questioning the change of tags. It really doesn't bother me as much as I make it sound. :D
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 1342
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:35 pm 
 

absurder21 wrote:
Soooo, Agalloch... your probably sick about talking about em, but Atmospheric Folk/Doom Metal, Post-rock/Metal? I mean, I get why maybe you aren't down to use the term Dark metal (although the band does seem quite similar to the likes of October Falls and Empyrium, and Faustian Echoes is kinda like Bethlem), but there's a huge black metal influence in there (the debut is pure Ulver worship, a few songs on The Mantle, and Marrow jumps back on to a lot of black metal tendencies, with Faustian Echo mainly being black metal orientated). Their metal riffing is mostly trebly tremelo picked powerchords more so than thick, slowly strummed, heavy riffs. Just can't see doom being the predominate metal influence there.

Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiIVluxcXNs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIF0d4PLsjY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1BBI072etY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOhBbaY3ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQitsTvGvko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ih3JVrRPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0TN90YfPFQ


I'm also having second thoughts on that tag. Perhaps I'll dig deeper and do something about it.
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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1419
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:15 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Point taken. :)

To be perfectly honest I always saw Mandylion and Nighttime Birds as gothic metal, more or less like a feminine version of what Draconian Times was doing at the time. That whole solemn atmosphere and the way the music was structured always made me look at it like that. Granted I haven't heard those albums for a long time now, I usually go back to HTMAP? or Souvenirs, which then again are even more hard to categorize than the rest. So since I can't exactly make a case that would stick I won't. I've been wanting to tackle that period for reviewing purposes (1995-2003) so I might just do that and voice my sentiments better. ;)

As I said before, I was just curious because I never had thought of them as being anywhere near doom, thus me questioning the change of tags. It really doesn't bother me as much as I make it sound. :D


I pretty much agree with this. Textbook gothic metal 'classic's of the mid 90's from the whole Century Media wave of such bands (Tiamat, Moonspell) and as androdion said, Paradise Lost, that plenty other bands copied since. Connectiong those two albums with Doom Metal is much more misleading. I'd say only the trained ear will find ny traces of Doom in mid-period The Gathering. Everything after we can agree on not being gothic metal, more bordering atmospheric/progressive rock.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:10 pm 
 

As an addendum to that I should be submitting my review of Mandylion to the queue tomorrow. I managed to address this matter without turning the review into a genre tag rant (I hope). :-P
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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 105
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:18 pm 
 

What would you guys think about changing In Loving Memory?

Their first demo could be considered traditional Doom Metal with clean female vocals. Their two full-length albums have death grunts and faster, more aggressive riffs. Melodic doom would be good for describing music like The 3rd and the Mortal and The Foreshadowing, doom with a mellow atmosphere and clean vocals.

My suggestion would be Melodic Death/Doom Metal.
If the one demo is significant enough, then I guess Doom Metal (early), Melodic Death/Doom Metal (later)

Here are some links to their latest album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mucu2rFlUhg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttfj90Rt9No

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Derzalol
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:32 pm
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:56 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Soilwork/26

So about Soilwork. Shouldn't they be classified as Melodic Death again with their latest album?

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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:44 pm 
 

Alright, as guitars are the single-most important factor in determining a band's metalness (as well as its particular genre(s)), does this band really need "with rap vocals" in it's genre field? I mean, it's incredibly rare for that to occur, but wouldn't it be as odd as saying "black metal with growls as opposed to the usual shrieks"? Either way, no matter the vocals, it's still black metal, and this band is still heavy metal ... Couldn't the notes be sufficient mentioning that the band's vocal style employs rapping?
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Lone_Rager/79461
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androdion
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:30 pm 
 

Could Assorted Heap's genre tag be changed to "Technical Thrash Metal"? They're hardly death/thrash, at best they have a mild death metal influence, but the best comparison points I'd give would be early Invocator or Hypnosia.

Some songs from both albums.
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casusluciferi666
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:13 pm 
 

Abacinate should have some indication of deathcore in their genre:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXhZ92hBr7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQODr-n_Plo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLQ6ZsNfUFs
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MetalizeR888
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:45 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:40 pm 
 

Sepulcro (Peru) is Power Thrash, not heavy thrash (?)...
Proof:
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/552584_3884130214038_707235453_n.jpg
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/401518_3072179236069_1322301182_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377815_10150539563642487_1678877923_n.jpg

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:45 pm 
 

A better proof would be musical samples, not interviews, flyers or whatever. The band can decide to classify them as "fast and dirty rock and roll" for all we care. Also, the difference between "power thrash" and "heavy thrash" is kinda thin anyway, it's not like they're classified as death metal.
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