I feel like this is going to be a shitstorm of a subject, but I like to both champion underdogs and play devil's advocate, so here it goes. I like most 90's metal better than most 80's metal. I know the genre's heyday was the 80's, but fuck if it didn't just branch out and become way more interesting (as a whole) in the 90's. Yes, there are the dead limbs of mallcore or nu metal or whatever, but is that really more offensive than the glam metal that plagued the 80's? Is anyone with me on this? Think about it. Arise, Though Silver in Blood, Take as Need For Pain, Songs of Love and Hate, Holy Mountain, Houdini; the list of great albums that stand the test of time and bear repeat listenings goes on and on. These albums all seamlessly blend multiple genres and bring them to a level that slakes what metal fans fundamentally thirst for. Or they look to the past and update it. I know there will be lots of bonehead responses to this, but I'm hoping there are enough intellegent people here to have a discourse on this and maybe, just maybe, get a few of the diehards to take a look at the decade in a new light.

I don't think anyone here will really argue with you on this, it was definitely the best time for black metal, what with Norway, Sweden and France churnning out some just awesome, awesome stuff. Death metal in sweden and the USA also continued to be strong into the end of the decade, not to mention power and prog metal also exploding in numbers. Doom metal started it's explosion as well, and it's various sub-genres and experimenters (sludge, stoner, and to a lesser extent, funeral doom and drone) started their crawl into the spotlight. It's only really traditional and thrash metal that appear to have suffered, as they were the genre's money makers and were left for dust a lot of the time durign the 90s, either cos their giants were creatively wiped out or their newer peers evolved to much (mostly trad bands into power or thrash into death/black) for that period of time. It's only really on the mainstream level that metal "died" other than groove metal, but obviously no one here views that as a bad thing considering metal's birthplace.

To each his own. I feel the 90s epitomize metal going down the shitter.

Sure, there are a few cool albums. But the 80s are legendary. Shit, I'd take the 70s before the 90s because while the quantity wasn't great, the quality was through the roof.

I think that most people will actually agree with this, the general 80's and thrash worship around here died with Ultra Boris, you'll get a few of the USPM nerds who'll be picking the 80's but, generally I think the prevalence of death and black metal in their best eras, and doom having a rise in quantity as well as branching into death/doom, stoner doom, and funeral doom blows away NWOBHM, USPM, proto-death and black, and thrash. Hell, most of my favourite thrash is the crazy techno thrash of Hellwitch, Invocator and Obliveon which was all 90's, although I will admit there was less of it. Most of my favourite PM came along post 80's also. Yes, nu metal gained it's footing, but I'm not sure how the existence a non metal genre effects the quality of the actual metal.

Seconding this.

I think the mid/late 80's to the early 90's (like, '92 at the latest) were probably the best era for metal (in terms of my own taste).
Once the whole "Alternative" and "Funk" music influence seeped into everything, Metal became really god-awful, though.

This is also the era where Grindcore became "only stuff that sounds like some variant of Nasum" with ludicrously high production value and the incredibly dense, compressed-as-hell-fucking-loud production that I've never liked. Death Metal bands all went to being boringly "technical" and "brutal" and similarly-produced instead of just being fucking plain heavy and really catchy/"head-bangable". Black Metal bands decided to get really theatrical and poofy and just plain corny with so-called "Avant-Garde" BM. And, if not that, they just completely re-invented the wheel time and time again.

I'm really not a big fan of modern DM/Grindcore though, as anyone who's known me on here long enough should already know, so that's just my personal perspective.

I think Black Metal certainly maintained some quality into the 90's (but then it was always more of a 90's-era genre)... I still feel it hit its peak in the mid-90's, though.

80's metal is the best !

Well, although I do enjoy 90's Metal immensely (far more than the decade that followed), I most definitely feel that the 80's was THE golden era for Metal.

The birth of Thrash, Death and Black Metal, Doom was in its infancy and of course the NWoBHM. Huge leaps in progression were made between albums (far more than bands do nowadays, but then it was all new back then), which was amazing considering that bands were basically releasing an album, then touring for months, then coming straight back to write and record another album the following year, before touring again, and this went on and on, year after year. Unlike today, where we have to wait 2 or 3 or more years between albums, as bands tour so much more now, as they make so little money from CD sales (times have changed, I know).

But I did enjoy the 90's, certainly the first few years, with classic after classic Death Metal (especially from Sweden and USA) and Black Metal (mainly Norway) albums getting released, although things kind of petered out during the mid 90's. And the last 15 plus years have been rather average as a whole. There's still some great albums coming out, but not so much originality. Certainly not as much as during the 80's and early 90's.

I would say the 90's were my next favourite decade after the 80's. But I can see why some prefer the 90's.

I'd go with 93 and 94 being the best years myself, at least for death metal. The later 90s did get a bit shit, but those first 5 years had a disgusting amount of great stuff, and all of the 4 best 90's albums (None So Vile, Pernicious Enigma, Prelude to Apocalypse and Psychostasia) came out post '95, so that softens the blow a little bit..



I don't really see how infancy is a positive trait, for me at least the earlier steps were important and ground breaking, but (almost) never as good as the bands that took the work of the trail blazers and built from it, it's why most of my favourite death metal is from 92-94 rather than 89-91, since it had dropped all the thrashiness and was now "pure", and why the best second wave BM is better than early Bathory (Although Bathory ruled) and like my earlier post, why techno thrash overall was more fun than the simplistic thrash of the mid 80's. Coming first makes you historically interesting, but it doesn't make your music perfect. I don't think many bands get it perfect on the first steps.

I think most people, at the least the one's who listen to more extreme metal won't argue with you on the importance/quality of the first half of the nineties. As for the second half.. I mean yeah, heavy metal took a nosedive in popularity, thrash went groove, black metal went hollywood and death metal went overpolished, etc, etc.. but I'm of the opinion that the underground thrived up til the mid 90s, maybe even as late as 96. I would say 1997-2000/01-ish were the worst years for metal overall, but even then great albums were released every single one of those years, from genres across the board. I guess it depends on how far your tastes range, really the only metal genres I actively dislike are stoner doom, trad. doom and Euro power metal. Overall, The strength of the first half of the 90s versus the entire 80s makes them on about equal footing in my eyes, even as nu metal, alternative and groove eventually reigned.

Yes.

late 80's and early 90's where the best years in my opinion, that's when all the influences came together and defined death metal, black metal, folk metal, grindcore, sludge, drone, and doom. Those genres all existed to some degree before that, but I thought they were more chiseled and stoned around that period.

This, this and more this.

I think it really has a lot to do with what you look for in metal, as others have already noted. Most of the best death and black metal albums in history were recorded and released in the early 90s, which is when the genres truly coalesced and became distinct entities. Stuff like Onward to Golgotha, Mental Funeral, De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, and A Blaze in the Northern Sky are heralded as timeless classics by many.

Early to mid 90's is the epitome of everything I enjoy and listen to. So many classic albums and favorites of mine from this era. No care outside of that.

Obviously the 90s were the heyday of black metal and most death metal, but I have a hunch that a lot of those records (at least the relatively obscure oens) weren't worshiped until later, especially when the internet made it easier to find out about bands and get their albums. When I hear the phrase "90s metal" those genres aren't what I think of. What comes to mind are the more popular, groovy bands like Pantera, Fear Factory, Sepultura, Prong, Biohazard, Obituary, etc. Basically stuff that's just a few steps away from being on Ozzfest

Well, you are sort of correct about that. My teenage years were in the 90's, and I've always been a digger, so I had discovered the Norwegian bands about '96 or '97ish. I remember very few BM listeners until Lords of Chaos hit the shelves, and by then the core bands were in decline. However, I'd like to point out that 80's metal and even 90's death metal was kind of thought of as a joke back then too. It all sounded dated and cheesy, and it wasn't until a fresh generation of listeners took over that it was taken off the shelf and dusted off. I'm telling you, same is probably about to happen with "groove" metal. A fresh generation will come in and the music won't be tied to a "scene" or idea, and people will listen to the music for the music. For the record, I have no problem with groove metal per se, being there when it happened, a lot of people my age will tell you that it kind of made sense in its day. It seems more of the younger kids who look at through the lens of the ensuing post-korn musical climate who see it for the wake it left without really hearing it for what it was at the time.

Well while most of the bands i listen to are from the 80's my top 3 favorite bands, blind guardian, iced earth, and death have made my favorite albums in the 90's. Also bathory and grave digger made some solid stuff in the 90's and the 90's also had bands like opeth, amon amarth, enslaved and gamma ray, so yeah the 90's had great stuff too, just have to look past the crappy groove and nu metal stuff.

I prefer 90s to 80s but honestly I prefer 00s to both. It started off with Destroy the Opposition and Close to a World Below, then tons more classics like In Their Darkened Shrines, Annihilation of the Wicked, The Stench of Redemption, Kill, Antithesis, Alien, Everything is Fire, Psalms of the Moribund, not to mention 5 Anaal Nathrakh albums and the list goes on. Although I think the 2010s will be the best decade yet because 2012 and 13 are set to be absolutely killer.

Interesting that your favourite Death Metal was from 92-94. By that time I had practically moved on entirely to Black Metal, as for me most Death Metal was just going through the motions and repeating what had come before. As for the second wave of Black Metal, yes it was cool, but much of it was imitating what Bathory and Celtic Frost had done (and done better in my opinion) several years earlier. But I still love the early Norwegian scene. Practically every album released between 92-95 were classics! And I'd take early Trouble, Saint Vitus and Candlemass over any Doom released a decade or more later! But hey, it's all down to personal opinion. If everyone on the archives agreed on every subject it would be boring as fuck on here, right?

Outside of the dearth of classic albums from the extreme genres and prog and so forth as already mentioned, the '90s also gave me Type O Negative. That in and of itself might not be enough to overcome the undertow of garbage that decade spawned looking back on it in its entirety, but it sure did fucking help at the time.

90s being shit for metal is so WRONG!!!

Running Wild and Grave Digger!!!

For a heavy/speed/thrash maniac it's most obvious that the 80's were THE best decade for him/her as then these genres were the strongest. In the 90's thrash almost completely disappeared and the big ones turned to some crappy groovy stuff, ala Pantera. In my opinion the 90's were much stronger than the 80's, because so many genres which started to grow in the late 80's bloomed, like black metal, death doom, death metal and so on. So for me the strongest period for metal was definitely around 1990-1994, even though thrash was shitty at that time, and metal wasn't popular. As I said, it was "the strongest", but not my favorite. My favorite period for metal were the 00's, because there were so many new/young bands doing all kinds of different stuff, mixing everything together and you have to dig a little to find those gems. Maybe that's because I like black and folk metal so much, so I can easily see why a thrash enthusiast or especially Agent Steel style speed metal, would disagree with me and say the 80's were the best.

+1
BTW, is it just me, or did the period of what people consider to be '80s metal actually extend all the way 'til '92-'93? Of course, alternative bands started popping up in the early '90s - but some, like FNM or Soundgarden, were already around in the '80s...And a fair share of classic heavy and thrash metal albums was released during that period (even though some of those albums, such as The Black Album, Countdown to Extinction, Streets: A Rock Opera or Empire might be considered the points were the respective bands that released them sold out). The glam bands such as Def Leppard, Skid Row, Guns n Roses, Poison, Warrant, Winger, Europe, Mr. Big etc. still had a degree of mainstream success. And when I watch music videos from that period, they usually don't feel much different tfrom those that were made in the '80s.

I really think the 80s were better for metal as a whole. The NWOBHM was probably the best trad movement world-over (who can say no to Angel Witch, Diamond Head and Satan?), most of the best thrash bands released their only good material (Slayer, Sepultura (okay, Arise is slightly above average but no match for Bestial Devastation), Sodom, Kreator etc), power metal had by far its best era and most of those bands went shitty by the early 90s (think Helloween, Blind Guardian), many of the best death metal albums were released (Scream Bloody Gore, Altars of Madness, Slowly We Rot...) and nearly all the best black metal comes from the 80s (INRI, Under The Sign Of The Black Mark, Deathcrush...). Then by the 90s you had tech-death emerging (eww), thrash and death metal either going groove, getting production too shiny, or both, and black metal, despite producing a few gems, became quickly repetitive, with the 'innovators' creating a giant musical mess.

As much as I respect your opinion, I cannot help but worry for the safety of you and your family after saying this on the MA board.




How is it that everyone on this board that likes Running Wild, fucking LIKES Running Wild? I mean I like them too, a lot even, but I can't help but chuckle every time you guys throw a party in celebration of your fandom

Quality is subjective. I like my slam as much as I like my glam.

"Underground" metal became better in the 90's, as a lot of the newly born genres flourished and had their "golden" eras during this decade: black, death, prog, euro-power, gothic, death/doom, folk, etc... it was a time of great diversity.

On the other hand, "mainstream" metal (or metal-related genres, if you will) took a big dip in quality during this decade, with the advent of the more "rythmic" genres like groove, nu metal, alternative/funk/rap and core genres etc... many of which are not even seen as real metal by many people; while in the 80's trad. metal and thrash had decent mainstream appeal and even glam metal was very passable in comparision.

So it comes down to the fact that the division between "underground" and "mainstream" in metal became much more noticeable in the 90's. However, I think 1985-1995 was the best decade for metal as a whole; just like 1965-1975 I see as the best era for general rock music.

Plenty of people will agree with him probably.

I like plenty of metal from the 80s, 90s and 2000s, and there's plenty of lame stuff from all eras, too. The 90s had some crap, but they also had some awesome shit like Virgin Steele's albums from Marriage onward, Alice in Chains' stuff, Psychotic Waltz, Prodigy/Oracle, some great Edguy, Sonata Arctica and Stratovarius albums, the aforementioned DM and BM classics and lots of other stuff.

The 1990s were when many gothic metal bands put out their first albums: 3rd and the Mortal, Tristania, The Sins of Thy Beloved, Theatre of Tragedy, My Dying Bride, Novembers Doom, etc.

Because Running Wild are so fucking likeable

90s metal has a lot going for it in the way of use of arrangements in bands like therion and virgin steele besides the obvious explosion of extreme metal.

Except for heavy and thrash bands the 90s was an awesome decade. We saw so many incredible albums in black, death and gothic/doom genres!!. We also saw how some genres can evolve and continue releasing great albums, even the modern bands like Fear Factory, Machine Head and others kicked some asses.

Many of my favourite albums are from the last 13 years but it would have been great for me to live the 90s as a metalhead(I started listening to some metal in the fall of that decade).

This is reason enough to hate the 90's.

I personally don't like this shitty act of distinguishing at all. There are enough good shit scattered throughout all eras. But I'll agree that early-mid 90's was the most creative and original period for metal. Some of my most favourite bands e.g. Alice in Chains, Type O Negative, Agalloch, Kyuss, Sleep, Orange Goblin, Cathedral and Electric Wizard spawned in that era.

Well.....it's difficult...because in the early nineties there were a bunch of great releases from the deathmetal en black metal wave that i wouldn't want to miss. However,most
of the real classics were definitely made in the '80's. Would i have to choose with a gun to the head which decade i would have to keep? Definitely the '80's. The classic Iron Maiden albums,
the first 4 Slayers,A bunch of Bay Area thrash pearls,Venom,Bathory,Metal Church,Mercyful Fate,Kreator,Death,Possessed etc,etc.

The strong flood of metal releases ceased to exist around 1995-'96. Sure i still buy new stuff but compared with the oldies it just is mostly second and often third rate material,be it heavy
metal,thrash,death,black whatever. You can see it during the bigger european festivals. The headliners are mostly the old dudes. There just is no one to replace acts like Maiden,Priest,Slayer etc.
At least to me.

Edit: The nineties gave us also more garbage than ever in the form of the most ludicrous sub genres/bands...ones i wouldn't even call metal. Not in spirit and not in sound.

Seconding, except I'd say it lasted until the the mid 90's(around 96). Some of my favorites black and death metal records are from that era, along with the branching off of the extreme doom genres, and grindcore. People shit on the 90's mostly because stuff like mallcore, groove metal and so on, but I couldn't care less about this.

Although I got into metal in the 80's, most of my fav albums were released on the 90's; most of the best black and death metal was released until 97. Not saying that what came after that is bad or something, just that 90-97 has so much quality (89 is not a bad year by any means).

90's metal is different then 80's metal through and through. It depends on the genres. Death and thrash were falling off around 95, but black and sludge was just starting up as well as more grindcore, powerviolence and metalcore.

Lot of great metal released in the 90's, especially for BM fans. But I'm more of a thrash/traditional fan so its 80's all the way. But even in the 90's when groove and nu were taking over there were great albums put out. Metal just keeps on kicking ass no matter the decade.

Totally agree!

there was indeed plenty of great metal released in the 90s. But it was still a bad time for metal. Show turnouts when I was first getting into this music around 95/96 were often absolutely abysmal, and stayed that way until the turn of the century. I felt like the only person around getting excited about this metal thing. Every so often I would meet someone who knew some death metal bands or something and I was almost speechless with astonishment. Today I almost take it for granted, but then I remember how dry it was for someone just discovering metal in the 90s and it still feels good. I heard from other people around NOrth America that things were pretty similar in most cities. There was a perception that metal was some cheesy old music and not at all cool. I don't know what spawned that; I really hesitate to blame so-called grunge and so on as I really doubt it had much to do with that. Backlash against a previous generation of sound, maybe. I also noticed that most of the classic death metal bands were losing the plot around this time, but it was weird because when I was getting into this music they had released their fandom-killing rock albums or whatever, so I was so confused. The first Carcass album that came out by the time I actually knew who Carcass was was Swansong, and I remember the DJs on the one metal/hardcore show we had here on Saturday night just taking the piss out of the album completely. Same thing with Entombed and Wolverine Blues, later Morgoth stuff, etc. And forget about local traditional-sounding metal bands because there just weren't any. Now, there seem to be new ones cropping up every week.

Generally I prefer today's climate. Yes, it's a little less exciting to discover a cool band in town when you know there are already loads of them, but on the other hand you can do a show and expect people to show up, there are a lot more people to talk to of all ages, and so on.