Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Big_Grand
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:59 pm
Posts: 432
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:16 am 
 

Which was better? I personally like them both equally, but I feel that bm behemoth was under rated. Their first album, Svetavith, had some of the best bm/ pagan bm songs from that time in my opinion. At the same time, they have one of the most intense sounds of the blackened death metal scene. So what are your opinions on the two eras of the band?

Top
 Profile  
ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 12163
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:27 am 
 

When you say blackened death behemoth I take more from their Thema 6 and Santanica albums cause I feel once they went further they were just a death metal band.

Those two are my favorite out of all their albums so I guess that would make me a fan for that era.
_________________
A bunch of mp3s is not a collection of anything.
http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
http://speedritualrecords.storenvy.com/ Check out my music here

Top
 Profile  
Mysticaloldbard
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm
Posts: 1246
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:46 am 
 

I have Grom and it's a good record. It's pretty ambitious while not being too far-fetched or revolutionary for its time. There are a lot of good ideas and some not so good ones littered here and there. The cleanly sung male vocals in "The Dark Forest" are plain bad. It's really the only example I can think of, I never listen to this album. It's lacking a certain something; it doesn't have the identity of later Behemoth releases. Also, the production is too fuzz-laden and the guitar tone sounds fake, for lack of a better word. That said, there's an indescribable pagan feeling about the album. The riffing is solid, folky black metal, akin to early Satyricon.

Grom comes off as a melange of good, but scatter-brained material as compared to the tightness and decidedness of Behemoth's blackened death metal. There's so much control over songwriting, especially in Demigod and Evangelion. Although their productions are crystal-clear and sterile, I still get a lot of atmosphere from the intensity and execution, which I prefer to the campy atmosphere of Grom.

I have a few holes in my Behemoth discography that need filling, so I can't give a complete comparison. And for what it's worth, I liked Zos Kia Cultus when I first got it, but nowadays I just find it boring and like Grom, never listen to it.
_________________
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
Every thread is secretly a Manowar thread.

Top
 Profile  
Sokaris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:33 am
Posts: 1096
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:11 pm 
 

I'm a fan of everything Behemoth has done from "The Return of the Northern Moon" onwards. The early stuff is damn great even though I do prefer them as a death metal band. As was said before "Grom" is a little overambitious but some of the moments where their aspirations exceed their resources are the most memorable.

Personally I prefer "Demigod" and "Zos Kia Cultus" of their ridiculously badass discography but I definitely enjoy the old stuff.

Also I think it's fucking awesome that they still dust off some ancient stuff for live performances:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCatslGrjNM
_________________
Kaos Aeon- Post-Apocalyptic Symphonic Extreme Metal

Top
 Profile  
vengefulgoat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
Posts: 977
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:20 pm 
 

The early stuff. Their death metal is 5/10 material max.

Top
 Profile  
Veracs
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:56 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:52 pm 
 

And the Forests dream eternally is a neat little EP I liked their demo from the Pagan Vastlands, I've heard some of Storming the Baltic and it was decent though I prefer the rawer efforts of early Graveland and Infernum. Their death metal material gets more spins from be on account of Demigod and Zos Kias cultus just being massive albums
_________________
Malignanthrone wrote:

Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

Top
 Profile  
DaBuddha
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 1315
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:11 pm 
 

Old Behemoth is far better than their stale, over produced new material. Their BM albums had tons of passion and emotion. It oozed out of the speakers effortlessly. You need not go further than Transilvanian Forest to hear what I'm talking about. That song crushes anything from Satanica onward.
_________________
Winds and storms embrace us now
Lay waste the light of day
Open gates to darker lands
We spread our wings and fly away

Just tell Nocturno Culto you were too busy getting stoned to burn down churches, he'll understand.
Darkthrone - My Anti-Drug

Top
 Profile  
motorsport
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:48 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:16 pm 
 

Modern Behemoth is best Behemoth. One of the best dm bands going. Evangelion is a classic.

Top
 Profile  
Shadoeking
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:34 am
Posts: 1424
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:23 pm 
 

I prefer their more recent material, but I do love their black metal material as well. Zos Kia Cultus and Demigod are probably my favorite albums by the group.
_________________
http://metallattorney.blogspot.com

Top
 Profile  
BasqueStorm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 2038
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:33 pm 
 

DaBuddha wrote:
Old Behemoth is far better than their stale, over produced new material. Their BM albums had tons of passion and emotion. It oozed out of the speakers effortlessly. You need not go further than Transilvanian Forest to hear what I'm talking about. That song crushes anything from Satanica onward.

+1.

Top
 Profile  
Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2451
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:22 pm 
 

I like mostly everything they've released, but Zos Kia Cultus is a true behemoth of an album, mixing the best both black and death elements. Satanica and Thelema 6 are huge albums too.
_________________
Forestfather in Facebook- Some sort of black metal.
Get Forestfather's new album 'Hereafter' here!
Kveldulf's various stuff in Soundcloud
Vahşet in ReverbNation - Death metal

Top
 Profile  
absurder21
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 673
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:48 pm 
 

All their era's are a derivative of some other bands, but I prefer their black metal stuff the most.

Top
 Profile  
Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4806
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:50 am 
 

I personally think Sventevith is one of the best black metal albums ever made. The rest of their black metal stuff is pretty hit and miss. And the Forests Dream Eternally is decent but just doesn't feel as well thought at as Sventevith. Grom is solid but nothing brilliant. I think they picked up with Pandemonic Incantations which is a great album, then went down hill as they moved more and more into death metal. Really the only album I listen to very often from their death metal era is Demigod. It might be the flat production but the last couple haven't done anything for me, they just sound kind of... flat.

Top
 Profile  
ancientorder
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 am
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:36 am 
 

Black Metal Behemoth. I have tried the later death metal era but it crashes for me with the sound production and drum triggers. Can't stand them.

Top
 Profile  
percepticide
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:16 am 
 

Their early black metal stuff is pretty good. I think their best stuff is anywhere between Pandemonic Incantations to Demigod. The apostasy was alright and evangelion were still decent though. Behemoth is one of those rare bands that successfully modify their sound over time yet still produce awesome album after awesome album.

Top
 Profile  
Oddeye
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:24 pm
Posts: 1887
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:23 am 
 

This thread reminds me I've been meaning to check out Behemoths BM-material for a while. I only have Satanica, Zos Kia Cultus, Demigod and Evangelion on CD but I like them all, especially Satanica.

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:27 am 
 

I like pretty much everything by Behemoth. Of their black metal stuff, Grom is my favorite. That title track is just killer. Of their later, death metal stuff, either The Apostasy or Evangelion.
_________________
YouTube
Facebook
Sorrowseed Melodic Extreme Metal
Blacksoul Seraphim Doomgaze
Thy Ancient Crypt Blackened Death Metal

Top
 Profile  
lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:36 am 
 

Demonica is one of the best compilations ever released.

EP and debut LP are solid too.

Top
 Profile  
Forbinator
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:22 am 
 

The only Behemoth album I consistently listen to is Satanica. On this album they're not trying to "be" anything, other than Behemoth.
_________________
INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO CHANGE THE WORLD

Top
 Profile  
Paganbasque
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 1671
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:58 am 
 

I really like Grom and the demo which has some of my favourite Behemoth songs. The debut album was great too but I didnt like the production.

The black/death albums of Behemoth contain some great songs but I dont enjoy the albums so much, for example Satanic, is a great record but I dont listen to the full album quite usually, I only chek the few songs I really like. I prefer his 100% death metal era with albums like Demigod or my favourite record, The Apostasy.

So the black metal era wins, closely followed by the death metal era, sorry black-death era, you loose. :)

Top
 Profile  
GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 411
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:54 pm 
 

I think probably you'd be better off treating them as two separate bands, each with their own fan base. There is definitely a split between their earlier black metal efforts and their current blackened death sound. I don't think it's a case of musical evolution either. If you listen to their albums one after the other, there's no transition. Starting with Pandemonic Incantations, they just ain't black metal anymore. Some people liked the change, some didn't.

It's not unique to Behemoth by any means. You can throw out the earlier/later question about practically any band with a well known discography, and you will get people in one camp claiming that the first demo was really amazing and it was all downhill from there, and people in the other camp claiming that the last release was the best yet. In the middle there are people who just like the band and don't care one way or the other, and only pop up when people say patently crazy things like Demigod is death metal. ;)

Top
 Profile  
androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5153
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:26 pm 
 

But Demigod is death metal! ;)

I don't have much love for the pre-Satanica releases, although I recognize they have musical value and are good albums. The same can be said for the post-Demigod albums, and to a certain point Demigod itself. With that being said the only Behemoth period I really enjoy is their black/death era, from Satanica to ZKC, although I still derive some mild enjoyment from Demigod.
_________________
ANGST ISST DIE SEELE AUF
androdion@Discogs

Top
 Profile  
GoldenBull
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:10 am
Posts: 142
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:28 pm 
 

The old BM stuff is great if you need a Polish BM fix and you're tired of spinning the usual Graveland/Infernum/etc. I think the later stuff is very generic and uninteresting but the band kills live no matter what is being played. That and the fact that Nergal is such a cool guy make Behemoth one of the few "big" DM acts I won't talk shit about all day.

Top
 Profile  
MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:19 pm 
 

Forbinator wrote:
The only Behemoth album I consistently listen to is Satanica. On this album they're not trying to "be" anything, other than Behemoth.

what, no Zos Kia Cultus?
_________________
محارب البلاك ميتال

Top
 Profile  
Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
Posts: 2724
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm 
 

I'm surprised Pandemonic Incantations always seems to fall by the wayside, though I suppose it's really the most transitional of Behemoth albums (though it probably leans a little more toward black metal IMO.) It was the first Behemoth album I bought and I still think it's a great album; sort of a black metal base with sharper production and vocals halfway between BM and DM. The riffing and drumming are a little chaotic to the point of sounding muddled at times, but that just contributes to the frenzied atmosphere. And I love all the occasional atmospheric touches with the keyboards including the deliciously cheesy intro (DOMINUS SATHANAS DOMINUS!) - Probably the last time the band had any kind of extensive keyboard use.

Hell, even the outro song is awesome; as obnoxious as hearing "HAIL! HAIL!" over cheap string synths should be, it just contributes to the bizarre ritual atmosphere so well.
_________________
failsafeman wrote:
In fairness though, a giant ball of cow dung is a hell of a conversation-starter.

Top
 Profile  
HellKnight666
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:16 am
Posts: 9
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:39 pm 
 

Old Behemot was better , good pegan black metal band.They play nice , powerful melodic music . My favourite song is "Moonspell Rites". Now the are very commercial band . They can play 50 concerts in year , really !


Last edited by HellKnight666 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
UNCHAIN_THE_WOLVES
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:19 am
Posts: 430
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:09 am 
 

Black Metal Behemoth gets my vote, no contest.

Behemoth are, and always have been a band I have the upmost respect for... One of the Best Black Metal bands and now (regretfully) one of the best Death Metal bands...

Everything upto and including Sventevith, I love... Grom is 50/50 and everything since has not been to my taste... but I'm glad they've "made it" and have been so successful with their Death Metal even tho I don't enjoy listening to it... it was a trasition made for all the right reasons on Nergal's behalf and I don't think his principles have wavered through their success... The music has totally changed but he seems to be the same person...

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:24 am 
 

Smoking_Gnu wrote:
I'm surprised Pandemonic Incantations always seems to fall by the wayside, though I suppose it's really the most transitional of Behemoth albums (though it probably leans a little more toward black metal IMO.) It was the first Behemoth album I bought and I still think it's a great album; sort of a black metal base with sharper production and vocals halfway between BM and DM. The riffing and drumming are a little chaotic to the point of sounding muddled at times, but that just contributes to the frenzied atmosphere. And I love all the occasional atmospheric touches with the keyboards including the deliciously cheesy intro (DOMINUS SATHANAS DOMINUS!) - Probably the last time the band had any kind of extensive keyboard use.

Hell, even the outro song is awesome; as obnoxious as hearing "HAIL! HAIL!" over cheap string synths should be, it just contributes to the bizarre ritual atmosphere so well.


This post actually got me to listen to that album. It's excellent. It's such a different style compared to both eras of the band that it really makes it stand out to me among their discography.
_________________
YouTube
Facebook
Sorrowseed Melodic Extreme Metal
Blacksoul Seraphim Doomgaze
Thy Ancient Crypt Blackened Death Metal

Top
 Profile  
IdiotFlesh
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:05 am
Posts: 1015
Location: New Hampshire
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:00 am 
 

Also, I don't really understand the blackened death metal label as it pertains to Behemoth. I see that most people in this thread just call the later material death metal without the blackened label thrown in there too. What elements of black metal are there really? The atmosphere? Maybe, but I don't think that it's something seperate from death metal necessarily. And the vocal stylings of Nergal are a little odd for death metal, but they are far from black metal.

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:13 am 
 

I recommend listening to Pandemonic Incantations. That right there is their most blackened death metal release, probably a little bit more black than death as Smoking_Gnu said.
_________________
YouTube
Facebook
Sorrowseed Melodic Extreme Metal
Blacksoul Seraphim Doomgaze
Thy Ancient Crypt Blackened Death Metal

Top
 Profile  
MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:20 am 
 

IdiotFlesh wrote:
Also, I don't really understand the blackened death metal label as it pertains to Behemoth. I see that most people in this thread just call the later material death metal without the blackened label thrown in there too. What elements of black metal are there really? The atmosphere? Maybe, but I don't think that it's something seperate from death metal necessarily. And the vocal stylings of Nergal are a little odd for death metal, but they are far from black metal.

so you're saying you don't hear the black metal influence in songs like Ov Fire and the Void or Decade of Therion? It's definitely there. Their later stuff, post-Demigod is less black metal influenced, but it's still somewhat there if you really listen for it.
_________________
محارب البلاك ميتال

Top
 Profile  
Paganbasque
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 1671
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:49 am 
 

You can like or dislike albums like Demigod or The Apostasy, but they are far from being generic death metal. Both are great albums but my favourite one is The Apostasy with this unbeatable mixture of DM and epic arrangements. Demigod has only one flaw, the production of the vocals, they sound so overproduced and weird...

Top
 Profile  
misogynisticfeminist
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:10 am
Posts: 105
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:28 am 
 

IdiotFlesh wrote:
Also, I don't really understand the blackened death metal label as it pertains to Behemoth. I see that most people in this thread just call the later material death metal without the blackened label thrown in there too. What elements of black metal are there really? The atmosphere? Maybe, but I don't think that it's something seperate from death metal necessarily. And the vocal stylings of Nergal are a little odd for death metal, but they are far from black metal.

The 'blackened' label may just come from the subject matter of the lyrics. I don't know, I just call them death metal anyways. As for the vocal stylings, I'd have to agree, they are odd, although I think they got a lot better on the latest. I think the vocals are probably my least favorite aspect of Behemoth's music. It just sounds as though Nergal's voice is overly strained, like it doesn't flow naturally, which I feel like is perhaps mainly due to the syllable-cramming lyrical content.

As for the topic of the thread, I like newer Behemoth.

Top
 Profile  
syx
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:18 pm
Posts: 387
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:13 am 
 

I like both the eras of Behemoth, I really love their black metal era however find myself listening to the death metal albums more as my partner prefers their death metal stuff.

Live they are one of the best bands around I think, the vocal attacks between Nergal, Orion and Seth are incredible, Orion's deeper vocals are brilliant!

My favourite albums of theirs are probably Grom and Zos Kia Cultus. Regarding Demigod, I definitely agree about the production on the vocals, I believe I read once that there are 8 layers of vocals recorded for the album.

Top
 Profile  
Muloc7253
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 533
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:15 am 
 

I think they got better once they introduced the death metal influence, their old black metal stuff isn't that great, theres a hell of a lot of other bands from the same era (and earlier) with the same sound doing it way better, but I reckon by Satanica they started to get really interesting.

Top
 Profile  
cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:32 pm 
 

Agreed with syx on their live performance being incredible. The tri- vocal attack is deadly. Personally I also enjoy all eras but i find more depth in the black metal releases overall, superficially the death metal albums are more " fun" and î tend to pull those out more for light listening.
_________________
lord_ghengis wrote:
Tony the Peroy Slayer, bards shall sing your story.

Top
 Profile  
Oblivion_Gene
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 3:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:10 pm 
 

I'll take Demigod or Evangelion over their early stuff any day, personally. Zos Kia Cultus and Satanica are also quite solid. Not to say that Sventevith and Grom weren't great, but Behemoth really improved with time and there are plenty of other seminal BM records from that era to focus on. Demigod was one of my first experiences with the genre, and it has remained my favorite even after hearing or purchasing their other material.

Top
 Profile  
Illuminati322
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:55 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Grand Chute, WI, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:02 am 
 

I loved the raw production and sound on their early black metal albums, but as is the case with most black metal found their song structures overly linear and repetitive. Their newer material is far too polished for my tastes, not to mention compositionally sluggish. As for their stylistic shift, I don't see how it represented any kind of artistic progression, only change (and I find "blackened death metal" a bit of a nebulous concept to boot.)

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mythics, Opus and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group