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TadakatsuH0nda
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:37 am
Posts: 113
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:43 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
I'm sure he'll be back. :p


Hope so. :(
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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 470
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:16 pm 
 

He has the most beautiful nickname on MA. How he can just leave... :aww:
I even promise to correct weirdo Nitberg lyrics to Cyrillic, hey, dude, can you hear meeee? :cry:

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TvvrAskesis
Marathon Man

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:33 am
Posts: 55
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:36 pm 
 

Please come back, Snow Listener. Your work is not done here!
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 891
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:07 pm 
 

I'm relatively new here, but it bugged me that digital releases were potentially excluding certain deserving bands. The digital trend is now endorsed by a lot of artists out there and it's gonna keep on growing.

I applaud the change! Kudos to the team for coming to this decision and a really nice touch announcing it at the turn of a new year! Must keep up with the times :)
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WarryoR
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:45 am
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:27 pm 
 

The year of Shit and Colapse. Fuck mp3s !!!

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Pr0nogo
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 85
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:59 am 
 

I'm glad that the mods had enough sense to say that an LP is required for a band's approval, digitally.
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Pronogo@hotmail.com

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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 411
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:15 pm 
 

I think probably the mods will have to buckle down and once and for all say how each kind of release is defined. Open it up to commentary for a couple of weeks and get a consensus, then carve it in stone. Put it in the FAQ. Any further debate can be referred there.

We all have a pretty good idea about what a full-length is, and is not, so it shouldn't be too hard to write it down. Same for EPs and singles.

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aloof
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm
Posts: 337
Location: In the graveyard, doing handstands
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:33 pm 
 

first, a theoretical question: a band with at least one digital release, that ticks all appropriate boxes, except that it [:the band] doesn't exist anymore (and so neither does the website where the release was available). in or out?

second, same as above, but the release(s) is/are available on a website like http://archive.org/. in or out?

last, Snowy Shaw has released a (solo) live album, available on itunes. it consists of songs originally recorded by the bands he was/is a member of (so not sure if they'd be considered originals or covers). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowy_Shaw_Is_Alive! in or out?

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In
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:41 pm
Posts: 208
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:40 pm 
 

It's great that Metal Archives is finally catching up with the times. Perhaps this now means that bands like Cursed Altar will finally be accepted.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:40 pm 
 

aloof wrote:
first, a theoretical question: a band with at least one digital release, that ticks all appropriate boxes, except that it [:the band] doesn't exist anymore (and so neither does the website where the release was available). in or out?

second, same as above, but the release(s) is/are available on a website like http://archive.org/. in or out?

last, Snowy Shaw has released a (solo) live album, available on itunes. it consists of songs originally recorded by the bands he was/is a member of (so not sure if they'd be considered originals or covers). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowy_Shaw_Is_Alive! in or out?


The first case seems like a clear no. Only a digital "single" and they split? Nope.

Second case... assuming the release is a full-length? Not sure...

Third case seems like an album mostly of covers, even if he was in those bands. I'd say no, even if it were released on CD, but I'm open to a counter-argument in case I'm missing some context.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2545
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:54 pm 
 

aloof wrote:
first, a theoretical question: a band with at least one digital release, that ticks all appropriate boxes, except that it [:the band] doesn't exist anymore (and so neither does the website where the release was available). in or out?

second, same as above, but the release(s) is/are available on a website like http://archive.org/. in or out?

last, Snowy Shaw has released a (solo) live album, available on itunes. it consists of songs originally recorded by the bands he was/is a member of (so not sure if they'd be considered originals or covers). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowy_Shaw_Is_Alive! in or out?

1. If you can give proof that they had a acceptable digital release which was once distributed, than it may be acceptable. Just like with PR, the onus lies on the submitter to prove that the release is valid, was published and is/was distributed. And, just like the old PR rule, if you can't prove that, then unfortunately we wont be inclined to accept it.

2. Archive.org might be OK, it really depends how official and permanent that form of distribution is. My own sensibilities are that if it's an archived official site or one of the many distros hosted on archive.org, that it would be fine. Though we'll still use our full discretion in each case, don't rule out archive.org.

3. That'd be a cover band compilation. Sorry, it wouldn't be acceptable.

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Harry_Ballzanya69
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:00 am
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:03 pm 
 

My band/project "Constant Threat" had not been approved before in my previous attempt to add it. This was most likely due to not having any physical releases. My music has been released and distributed digitally. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_srch_dr ... ch-type=ss

There are earlier albums not released commercially however and they can be downloaded/listened to at http://wwww.constantthreat.net

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:05 pm 
 

Sorry, I couldn't find a deleted draft with that band name. It's not in the blacklist, so you can always simply resubmit. Make sure you include those links under Submission notes.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5903
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:06 pm 
 

Harry_Ballzanya69 wrote:
My band/project "Constant Threat" had not been approved before in my previous attempt to add it. This was most likely due to not having any physical releases. My music has been released and distributed digitally. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_srch_dr ... ch-type=ss

There are earlier albums not released commercially however and they can be downloaded/listened to at http://wwww.constantthreat.net

Well, submit them with those links included. I see no problem now.

EDIT: Yeah, what Morrigan said. It's not blacklisted.
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Quote:
One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

Last.fm | Collection

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Rasc
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:19 am
Posts: 193
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:05 pm 
 

Quote:
or a "3 song EP", of which 2 are covers, for instance.


LOL I'm more than sure the mods were thinking about the band Nuclear Paranoia I submitted, the band has a physical 3-song EP though, of which 2 are covers. That was a big fail of mine.

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Ball Cupper
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 107
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:07 pm 
 

Quote:
Official Distribution: The album must be available through an official and/or permanent (as "permanent" as Internet sites go, anyway) channel. This means sending us a link to a Mediafire-hosted .rar file is not good enough (could be faked too easily). You must show us where this album is hosted (such as a band's official site, a serious digital distributor, etc.) Note, this does not mean free albums are excluded.


I mustn't be too good at reading and I kinda zoned out during Snow Listener's speeches, I'd like some clarification on this. What is considered a "serious digital distributor"? For example, is having a Bandcamp page good enough (considering how stuff there can be bought / downloaded) or does it need to be bigger / more official than that? I'm having difficulty judging this!

A great change, always good to keep up with the times :)

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5903
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:27 pm 
 

It depends on the context. Bandcamp can be enough for some releases, depending on other factors like release length, professionalism, cover art and whether it's available for download/purchase, but it's not always an automatic ticket in. Same for CD Baby, iTunes or Amazon, although those do generally lend more permanence and "impact" to a release. However, there is not one single factor that, if fulfilled, overwrites all other considerations. There are no sites that equal automatic band approval. A band with only one digital single on Amazon is still unacceptable, for example. A band with a shoddy two-track demo on CD Baby or a "compilation" of fifteen songs recorded at various points in time and with different sound quality and only a logo as a cover won't fly either. It's a matter of judging distribution, professionalism and the nature of that particular release as a salient collection of songs, an artistic, original entity in long-enough album form by a number of available factors that all contribute to the final decision.

We reserve the right to add or substract digital distributor sites to the malleable list of acceptable sources. It's important to draw a line between a seriously distributed digital release and a Mediafire link that might get removed at any moment. Of course online, the concept of permanence is relative, but I hope you see what I mean.
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Quote:
One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

Last.fm | Collection

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Ball Cupper
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 107
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:32 pm 
 

Ah, so it's more of a "be a serious artistic statement in a complete, finished form" kinda thing?

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:36 pm 
 

Exactly. :)

For instance, I saw a digital band with a bandCamp link in the queue recently. I was about to approve it, then I noticed something strange: two of the songs were indeed downloadable for free, the rest of the songs were streamable for free (but not downloadable), and there was no option to buy the album. There was no other indication that the album was available through another mean. So, apparently, the only way to obtain that album in full was... to stream it. Which is not acceptable for our standards, so unless there's another place to obtain the album digitally (or physically of course), I'd have to reject that even if it's on BandCamp.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 470
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:24 pm 
 

So, if the full-length album, professional, is available only as streaming but not downloading, it will be unacceptable?
I can download streaming songs by using soft like Replay Media Catcher. Recently I've download the song from Bandzone this way. Is it a matter of distribution? By acceptable digital album did you mean it should be 100% available for downloading? :roll:

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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2545
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:07 pm 
 

It says it right there in the rules:
Quote:
Quality Download: No streaming-only (such as on MySpace or YouTube); the digital album must be available as a full high-quality download, preferably in lossless format.

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ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:48 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Exactly. :)

For instance, I saw a digital band with a bandCamp link in the queue recently. I was about to approve it, then I noticed something strange: two of the songs were indeed downloadable for free, the rest of the songs were streamable for free (but not downloadable), and there was no option to buy the album. There was no other indication that the album was available through another mean. So, apparently, the only way to obtain that album in full was... to stream it. Which is not acceptable for our standards, so unless there's another place to obtain the album digitally (or physically of course), I'd have to reject that even if it's on BandCamp.

Sometimes you have to click on the individual songs to download them...I had to do that with the Angelic Process, one track at a time (a total pain in the ass...).
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:15 am 
 

^ Nope, that didn't work for that particular case, clicking the individual track only lead to page with info about the song and it could only be streamed.

Since streaming an album is not obtaining it, it does not count as a valid release in my book. You can't even make your own copy. And yes, there are programs to "leech" those streamed audio files, but that's a work around, not real distribution.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1419
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:31 am 
 

aeternus1990 wrote:
So, if the full-length album, professional, is available only as streaming but not downloading, it will be unacceptable?
I can download streaming songs by using soft like Replay Media Catcher. Recently I've download the song from Bandzone this way. Is it a matter of distribution? By acceptable digital album did you mean it should be 100% available for downloading? :roll:


This is pretty much the same as bootlegging. A no-go on metal archives.

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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:47 am 
 

The first post of the Why was band X rejected/deleted/blacklisted? topic could use some updating regarding this.
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Known as RonimuZ from Nov 25th 2005 to Oct 28th 2013

Empä mie semmone ou niiku sie luulet

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5903
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:04 am 
 

aeternus1990 wrote:
So, if the full-length album, professional, is available only as streaming but not downloading, it will be unacceptable?
I can download streaming songs by using soft like Replay Media Catcher. Recently I've download the song from Bandzone this way. Is it a matter of distribution? By acceptable digital album did you mean it should be 100% available for downloading? :roll:

There's a plugin for downloading videos from Youtube. With the right converter I can assemble entire albums that way. So you see why that reasoning might be a bit skewed. If the band doesn't bother to make the album available without the user having to resort to such tools it's their own fault, really.
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Quote:
One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

Last.fm | Collection

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5903
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:21 am 
 

RonimuZ wrote:
The first post of the Why was band X rejected/deleted/blacklisted? topic could use some updating regarding this.

Ah right, I've been meaning to do that. Tweaked.
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Quote:
One Too Many Camel was rejected on the basis that it was not metal.

Last.fm | Collection

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:13 pm 
 

Basically, for a digital album to be valid, the minimum requirement is that I should be able to put it on my iPod (or any mp3 player) with minimal effort and computer knowledge. If I have to use leeching software to extract sound files from a Flash streaming app, then it's not a valid digital album. If I download the mp3s from Amazon or Bandcamp, I can just copy them on my iPod and listen to that in the car because that's how it's intended to work. I can't do that with Youtube songs without hacking.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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theangelofdeath
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:48 pm
Posts: 23
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:22 pm 
 

I submitted a band called "Annihilated" a little while back. The members of my band are my friends.
The band has members such as Scott Fuller from "Abysmal Dawn", Eric Matranga (Ex-Grotesque)
And Martin from "Decapitated". They got rejected because at the time their full length "Injected"
was only released as a digital download, but now they just released physical copies as well.
Is there anyway you can restore this submission? or do I have to completely re-summit them?

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:52 pm 
 

I've found it in the logs, but as someone else's submission (ExplosiveSquid7 was the user). I can restore this (assuming the music is acceptable but I'm pretty sure it is), but you won't get points, or you can make a new draft and resubmit. Up to you.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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theangelofdeath
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:48 pm
Posts: 23
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:58 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
I've found it in the logs, but as someone else's submission (ExplosiveSquid7 was the user). I can restore this (assuming the music is acceptable but I'm pretty sure it is), but you won't get points, or you can make a new draft and resubmit. Up to you.


I'll just re-submit the band then,
Because they are my buddies and I'd rather be the one to submit their band.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm 
 

Ok, but if someone submits it before you and has the necessary info, we'll take it, friend of the band or not. ;)
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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stationdysthymia
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:47 am
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:18 am 
 

Hi, all!

I have submitted Station Dysthymia quite a while ago, and the request was rejected due to not having a physical release.

Now, we have the whole 2009 album up on SoundCloud, all tracks freely downloadable (https://soundcloud.com/station-dysthymia). The album was featured in several metal blogs. There's a couple of reviews on the web, even an interview for a webzine (http://www.greyday.es/station-dysthymia-interview). There's about 7000 plays on Last.fm. All the tracks were released at once and as part of the album, in a digital format (256 MP3, so not exactly HQ). The album has a cover. And well, there's a brand new proper studio album on the way (album completely ready, but getting signed is hard...), but that's a bit tangential.

So, my question is: will this be accepted?

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:09 am 
 

At first glance, I would say so, assuming the music is acceptable. It's a full-length album?
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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stationdysthymia
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:47 am
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:11 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
At first glance, I would say so, assuming the music is acceptable. It's a full-length album?

ca. 55 minutes. I would say the music is acceptable =)

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:16 am 
 

Sounds perfectly fine then. :)
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Dr_Keloid
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:10 pm
Posts: 87
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:12 am 
 

Morrigan, I just added Chthe'ilist's demo at the same time as you. D'oh!

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9618
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:19 am 
 

Hah, oops. Deleting as soon as the site stops shitting the bed...
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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pantatzar
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:00 am
Posts: 2
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:28 pm 
 

Hi.
I read your new rules about some digital releases that can be accepteble, and I have a question. Band Testator has an album available for download on online Nocturne magazine(as Nocturne Magazine edition). Their demo album was selfreleased, and has no labeled phisical realese. Is this valid for the band to be added on metal-archives? The band is active, and it has a video as a proof that the band exists.
Thanks -/m/
Testator:
http://nocturnemagazine.net/preuzimanje/strana/2

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theangelofdeath
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:48 pm
Posts: 23
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:00 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
I've found it in the logs, but as someone else's submission (ExplosiveSquid7 was the user). I can restore this (assuming the music is acceptable but I'm pretty sure it is), but you won't get points, or you can make a new draft and resubmit. Up to you.


I just re-submitted them and they are pending for approval : D

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