Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:16 am 
 

Recently I actually looked up the lyrics to Megadeth's "Hook in the Mouth" and learned that it's a very anti-PMRC song. I don't know a ton about the PMRC, except that they started the whole "parental advisory" stickers on some albums, and that they were very controversial at the time, with artists from several genres writing songs about them.

The thing is, these songs and the attitude that I sense, being separated by decades, is that there was a feeling that they were destroying freedom of speech. But I don't really see the reason for that amount of anger over a voluntary sticker. The way people sounded, you'd think they were trying to actually force lyrical censorship.

So was this hyperbole, or was there something to it? Can someone help me to understand this?

Top
 Profile  
BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 10857
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:17 am 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
But I don't really see the reason for that amount of anger over a voluntary sticker. The way people sounded, you'd think they were trying to actually force lyrical censorship.


They were, or at least something similar. The sticker was the compromise if I remember correctly.
_________________
Lair of the Bastard: LATEST REVIEW: In Flames - Foregone
The Outer RIM - Uatism: The dogs bark in street slang
niix wrote:
the reason your grandmother has all those plastic sheets on her furniture is because she is probably a squirter

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:20 am 
 

As far as I know, they basically promoted (and indeed tried to force) censorship, which is despicable.

Top
 Profile  
sortalikeadream
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:34 am
Posts: 1618
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:23 am 
 

Do retailers/distributors of non-negligible financial significance sell 'explicit content' that isn't labelled as such? The sticker may have been voluntary, but wasn't it de facto required if you wanted a chance of your album being made easily available (before the internet as we know it)?

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 10167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:45 am 
 

They were trying to force their beliefs on everyone else, which is instant fuel for "fuck these people" pretty much everybody. The fact that they were specifically targeting metal music as this swamp of Satanists and perverts only made metalheads hate them more.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

Top
 Profile  
Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 1077
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:25 am 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
The thing is, these songs and the attitude that I sense, being separated by decades, is that there was a feeling that they were destroying freedom of speech. But I don't really see the reason for that amount of anger over a voluntary sticker. The way people sounded, you'd think they were trying to actually force lyrical censorship.

So was this hyperbole, or was there something to it? Can someone help me to understand this?


I can try, since I saw all of this unfold :p

The first thing you have to understand is that the PMRC was just one symptom of a much larger problem in 80s America. More and more, the media and different groups were blaming not just music but any cultural phenomenon for every problem. Someone got shot? It was Rambo's fault. Or Dungeons and Dragons. Things were spiraling out of control. Two idiots shot themselves just around the time the PMRC was created and one of them survived and blamed it on an inoffensive Judas Priest song. This incident kept on gaining steam and eventually went on trial. That was crazy shit right there that never should have even been considered. Thankfully, common sense prevailed.

The PMRC itself was rather harmless. Much of the "hate" was actually fake. For artists like WASP, whose only thing they have going for them is to shock, the PMRC was actually a blessing in disguise. If you were on the PMRC's shitlist, it kinda gave you "cred" with the kids. Of course, the PMRC had a hold on certain big chains but you have to remember there were a lot more stores back then fighting for the consumer's dollar. So a lot of experts contend that all this controversy actually boosted certain artists' sales (and I would agree with that).

The funny thing is that despite what the hearings make it look like (lots of rock and metal artists protesting) the PMRC was mostly concerned with suggestive (sexual) material from pop and rap artists. Stuff like Prince. This was basically an organization of sexually frustrated politicians' wives trying to find whatever meaning they could in life.

The stickers were harmless. It's the insanity surrounding all this, the fact that a judge seriously contemplated whether Judas Priest were responsible for two dickwads shooting themselves in the face. This is a pivotal point where America could have taken a really frightening turn for the worse.
_________________
mjollnir wrote:
Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

Top
 Profile  
Terri23
Veteran

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 3177
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:48 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
Two idiots shot themselves just around the time the PMRC was created and one of them survived and blamed it on an inoffensive Judas Priest song. This incident kept on gaining steam and eventually went on trial. That was crazy shit right there that never should have even been considered. Thankfully, common sense prevailed.


This court case was one of the biggest pieces of shit ever. The two kids locked themselves in a bedroom, played the same song (Better by You, Better than Me for those unfamiliar with the case) for 12 hours straight while getting high. The parents were home, and instead of checking on the kids to make sure they were alright - one would expect someone with common sense to think something was wrong if they heard the same song over and over for twelve hours - they blamed the band when the inevitable happened. Thankfully, as Riffs said, the judge had common sense. Whatever happened to responsibility?
_________________
metaldiscussor666 wrote:
American isn't a nationality

Riffs wrote:
It's been scientifically proven that appreciating Black Sabbath helps increase life expectancy, improves happiness, bumps your salary by 11 thousand dollars annually, helps fight cavities and increases penis size.

Top
 Profile  
failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:05 am 
 

The worst part for me is that "Better by You, Better Than Me" is a cover, and on that same album there is "Beyond the Realms of Death", which is ACTUALLY ABOUT suicide. If they had seriously chosen a song with the intention of killing themselves, why the fuck not the latter??? I think the whole court case was just grief-stricken parents looking around for something to blame other than their sons or themselves, however irrational. It's always tragic when kids commit suicide, but I can't believe the parents didn't have someone in their lives who could tell them "sorry your kids are dead, but this lawsuit is bullshit." I bet they had some sort of predatory lawyer who deluded them into thinking they had a really good chance of winning, if only they kept paying him.
_________________
MorbidBlood wrote:
So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

Top
 Profile  
Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8817
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:11 am 
 

No matter how you (or they) put it, it was all about censorship. I believe the result has eventually been the exact opposite, and for certain genres, not having the warning sticker is a warning to potential buyers.

I also believe that this particular piece of idiocy may have had consequences that reached much further than the people involved believe. I wouldn't think it improbable that many US people of my own age still remembered the fact that Al Gore's wife provided her face for the campaign, and it would have had some effect on my own voting in the 2000 presidential election; it probably didn't give Bush many votes, but I wouldn't put it beyond a considerable number of people thinking in certain ways to skip voting for Gore, either.

Riffs pretty much nails it, except that he, IMO, does not stress the potential for a larger-scale cultural conflict enough. Have the same happen now, and the Christian right in the USA might give the ideas they held a much scarier depth and plenty of more steam. It's a thing just waiting to happen sooner or later, and the next time it won't stop at stickers.
_________________
Chest wounds suck (when properly inflicted).
-Butch-

Top
 Profile  
Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5898
Location: over yon hill
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:31 am 
 

Napero wrote:
I also believe that this particular piece of idiocy may have had consequences that reached much further than the people involved believe. I wouldn't think it improbable that many US people of my own age still remembered the fact that Al Gore's wife provided her face for the campaign, and it would have had some effect on my own voting in the 2000 presidential election; it probably didn't give Bush many votes, but I wouldn't put it beyond a considerable number of people thinking in certain ways to skip voting for Gore, either.


I think even younger people still remember this well, I was 13 at the time of the 2000 election, and I still remember very well Tipper getting involved in this and thinking if I could vote it would be for Bush. Of course I was 13 and didn't really care about anything but the stickers getting put on cds and making it harder for me to get my hands on them.
_________________
Man is truly a wretched thing, and the forest is committed to expunging him from existence.

Azmodes wrote:
It combines two of my favourite things: penis innuendo and derigin.

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:39 pm 
 

Has anyone here watched the senate hearing with Dee Snider, Frank Zappa, and John Denver? It's quite the watch, really. Also, watch out for Dee Snider politely telling Tipper Gore to go fuck herself.

Top
 Profile  
GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:14 pm 
 

To have a real visceral reaction to the letters PMRC, you had to have been there. There have always been groups in the US that make their bones by claiming they know what's causing X problem in society, but this one had really solid political ties and was therefore really scary. It was headed up by Tipper Gore, wife of Al Gore - Senator from Tennessee, later Vice President, and almost President of the United States.

What a fucking disaster that would have been. You know how the Fist Lady always has some cause to champion? Guess what Tipper's would have been?

Anyway, American youth culture had started accelerating in a unfamiliar direction starting in the late 1970s, and the older generation got into the habit of using everything, literally everything, that the younger generation was into as a scapegoat for undesirable behavior. Movies, music, video games, D&D, anything that was hugely popular with youth that adults found offensive became the reason for offensive behavior.

The censorship movement championed by the PMRC wasn't just a lot of hot air, either. They planted the idea that censorship was sanctioned, even desirable, and that it was part of being a responsible parent. Local parenTal groups sprung up all over the place and were quite successfull in their efforts in some arenas. In my hometown, the town council banned video games, for example. The standup console games that could always be found in the front of practically evey store of every kind in the 1980s? Not in Vienna Virginia. A local parental group also picketed (picketed!) local record store chains, and eventually the council decided it would be less trouble not to renew the leases of any of them. I haven't been back to Vienna in a few years, but the last time I was, I noted that there still aren't any video games or record stores in town.

The PMRC may not have been all that successfull on a national scale, pretty much all they got was those stickers, but they started the movement of officially sanctioned for-your-own-good censorship hysteria.

Top
 Profile  
Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:39 pm 
 

So from what I gather, most of the anger was faked, and the PMRC didn't do much? What was the idea before they compromised with the sticker?

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 10167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:43 pm 
 

They wanted music with explicit themes to be censored and unavailable to children and ostensibly everyone else as well. As said, they were trying to force their beliefs on other people.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

Top
 Profile  
failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:43 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
Riffs pretty much nails it, except that he, IMO, does not stress the potential for a larger-scale cultural conflict enough. Have the same happen now, and the Christian right in the USA might give the ideas they held a much scarier depth and plenty of more steam. It's a thing just waiting to happen sooner or later, and the next time it won't stop at stickers.

What are you talking about? If anything, America is getting much more relaxed when it comes to censorship. Comedy Central for example airs South Park totally uncensored, which would have been utterly unheard of 10 years ago even for a non-premium cable channel. Yeah the Christian right has some power, but its power to push through wacky legislation is very limited to a few strongholds in Texas and the midwest. For example, you will never ever see Intelligent Design taught as a serious scientific theory in New England or west coast schools.
_________________
MorbidBlood wrote:
So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

Top
 Profile  
absurder21
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 692
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:22 pm 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
Recently I actually looked up the lyrics to Megadeth's "Hook in the Mouth" and learned that it's a very anti-PMRC song. I don't know a ton about the PMRC, except that they started the whole "parental advisory" stickers on some albums, and that they were very controversial at the time, with artists from several genres writing songs about them.

The thing is, these songs and the attitude that I sense, being separated by decades, is that there was a feeling that they were destroying freedom of speech. But I don't really see the reason for that amount of anger over a voluntary sticker. The way people sounded, you'd think they were trying to actually force lyrical censorship.

So was this hyperbole, or was there something to it? Can someone help me to understand this?

lol, they wanted to do WAY more then just put a sticker on cds. The advisory stickers was all they were able to accomplish...

Top
 Profile  
Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8817
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:39 pm 
 

failsafeman, I completely agree on those examples, South Park and ID, although I must point out that the censorship 10 years ago must have been voluntary, not mandatory. What they would have wanted to have was a mandatory process.

However, what I really mean is that the interest was rather superficial, on the level of individual lyrics and such, and was essentially more about limiting the availability of the stuff, not about outright banning anything, especially not ideologies or images. Today, it might get different forms, and as GTog pointed out, the effect might be considerable on local level. It's probably true that the free speech rules you have would make banning anything virtually impossible, since it hasn't worked on porn, either, but an astroturfed movement might cause much more scattered local harm than anything on federal or individual state level ever could.

This, obviously, is based on a view from the outside, which of course is a different thing than seeing stuff from within the USA, but I'd say that in my experience, the so-called "moral values" and other pseudo-conservative bullshit ideas get MUCH more air time and visibility in the US media, and seem to have a much heavier impact on the day-to-day running of things over there. Yeah, you can't take away anyone's freedom to express anything, but you can make it damn difficult to do certain things, and it doesn't really take much effort to make changes in leases, zoning, licences, permits, whathaveyou, to make the right not to hear your exercises of your free speech much easier to do for people who don't even know about your message... youknowwhatImean... And if this issue was to polarize to the level of the abortion discussion, as an example, I'd bet that it would lead to excesses on the very much local level, just like creationism has done; plenty of turmoil, and while the actual damage might in the long run be neglible, it would cause a HUGE hassle for a lot of folks. ID already has, and as you pointed out, it would never even be taught in schools where it really matters.

Black metal distros, the future Larry Flynts of the USA.
_________________
Chest wounds suck (when properly inflicted).
-Butch-

Top
 Profile  
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:41 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
The worst part for me is that "Better by You, Better Than Me" is a cover, and on that same album there is "Beyond the Realms of Death", which is ACTUALLY ABOUT suicide. If they had seriously chosen a song with the intention of killing themselves, why the fuck not the latter??? I think the whole court case was just grief-stricken parents looking around for something to blame other than their sons or themselves, however irrational. It's always tragic when kids commit suicide, but I can't believe the parents didn't have someone in their lives who could tell them "sorry your kids are dead, but this lawsuit is bullshit." I bet they had some sort of predatory lawyer who deluded them into thinking they had a really good chance of winning, if only they kept paying him.

Hah. For a long time I thought the song in question was Beyond the Realms of Death, for that very reason. When I learned it was the cover song, I thought, why are they blaming Priest when the lyrics weren't written by them? And then I learned that it wasn't about the lyrics but because of a so-called subliminal message that said... "do it!". :lol:
_________________
Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

Top
 Profile  
failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
failsafeman, I completely agree on those examples, South Park and ID, although I must point out that the censorship 10 years ago must have been voluntary, not mandatory. What they would have wanted to have was a mandatory process.

Of course it was voluntary, as the FCC doesn't actually control cable channels, only basic channels that actually go out "over the airwaves." What cable channels have is their own guidelines for what they deem as acceptable content for their programming, which may seem like an arbitrary thing that's simple to change if the will is there until you realize that these guidelines are developed with an eye to keeping the all-important advertisers happy. A change as significant as Comedy Central's between 10 years ago and now means there has been a significant change in the way advertisers feel about such "vulgar" content being shown alongside commercials for their products, and these people do nothing but study public attitudes. If big advertisers don't care about vulgarity on TV, then that means their studies prove a majority of Americans watching CC don't care either. That may seem obvious on the internet where vulgarity is the rule, but it's a pretty huge shift for any sort of advertiser to make.
_________________
MorbidBlood wrote:
So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

Top
 Profile  
CF_Mono
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 1793
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:55 am 
 

I came into this thread thinking I had something to say, but everyone here seems to be much more knowledgeable on the subject. These posts are a good read. especially that last one, Failsafe.
_________________
Don't worry about my opinion.

Top
 Profile  
MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:30 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
The worst part for me is that "Better by You, Better Than Me" is a cover, and on that same album there is "Beyond the Realms of Death", which is ACTUALLY ABOUT suicide. If they had seriously chosen a song with the intention of killing themselves, why the fuck not the latter??? I think the whole court case was just grief-stricken parents looking around for something to blame other than their sons or themselves, however irrational. It's always tragic when kids commit suicide, but I can't believe the parents didn't have someone in their lives who could tell them "sorry your kids are dead, but this lawsuit is bullshit." I bet they had some sort of predatory lawyer who deluded them into thinking they had a really good chance of winning, if only they kept paying him.

I totally forgot that song was on there :durr:
_________________
Murtal wrote:
In flames became MeloDICK Death Metal

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
Also hopefully they take it as a sign they're not meant to make more albums.

Top
 Profile  
mjollnir
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:14 pm
Posts: 2056
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:56 pm 
 

The PMRC and their anger wasn't fake....that's for sure. I still don't know why Tipper thought that buying her child the soundtrack to an R rated movie (Purple Rain) that the content would be tween friendly! And in her outrage she thought she could rally her friends in high places to her cause. I mean lets have the government tell you what's wrong or right since obviously she was so important that she didn't have time to investigate what her child was listening to. It was a real scary time in this country. I believe that, although some censorship has lightened up, other types have not and it's getting worse. Thank the gods we had Zappa, John Denver and Dee Snider and that they were able to make actual points rather than the talking points the government was spewing. There were actual Congressional hearings over this shit!! This was during Reagan, Iran Contra etc. And the government thought that music lyrics was the pressing business!! lol

Top
 Profile  
Ceald Hraew
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:36 am
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:30 pm 
 

Even today people still refuse to blame the perpretator whenever something bad happens, but they blame different things than in the eighties.

Riffs wrote:
The stickers were harmless.

In practice yes, but it slightly ruins album arts.

failsafeman wrote:
Comedy Central for example airs South Park totally uncensored

They did censor Mohammed in South Park though.

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 10167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:39 pm 
 

They don't air South Park 100% uncensored; they'll leave in "shit" and "goddamn" and whatnot but nudity and "fuck" are still bleeped/blurred out last I saw.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

Top
 Profile  
TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1687
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:40 pm 
 

A lot of bands seemed pretty happy with the parental advisory sticker, from a marketing stand-point. Kids buying metal are often after rebellion, and that sticker basically said "THIS WILL PISS OFF YOUR PARENTS".
_________________
Blacksmith - Heavy Metal/Hard Rock from Sydney

Absolute Power: heavy metal and pop culture news, analysis and commentary

Top
 Profile  
soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 764
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:27 am 
 

To put some perspective on it, at the time it felt like the PMRC was a pretty big attack on Metal/Rock n' Roll, as it was a legal/political movement where nothing like it had happened before. I remember feeling like there might be a chance that the whole thing would be shut down completely.

There were also the religious crazies, showing up at shows telling kids if they went into the show they were condemned to hell, etc.

In retrospect it all feels like silly nonsense, of course. The "parental advisory" sticker became something that every band WANTED on their CD to help make it attractive -- i.e. exactly the opposite of what Tipper wanted (and also, interestingly enough, something that John Denver of all people predicted)....

But in my teenage mind, at the time, it felt like the PMRC were big bad people who might take away something that we really enjoyed.

Top
 Profile  
Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9311
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:52 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
The worst part for me is that "Better by You, Better Than Me" is a cover, and on that same album there is "Beyond the Realms of Death", which is ACTUALLY ABOUT suicide. If they had seriously chosen a song with the intention of killing themselves, why the fuck not the latter??? I think the whole court case was just grief-stricken parents looking around for something to blame other than their sons or themselves, however irrational. It's always tragic when kids commit suicide, but I can't believe the parents didn't have someone in their lives who could tell them "sorry your kids are dead, but this lawsuit is bullshit." I bet they had some sort of predatory lawyer who deluded them into thinking they had a really good chance of winning, if only they kept paying him.



Well put; this is exactly what I imagine. I'm also almost sure it didn't help their case that "Better by You" wasn't at all the sort of song they thought it to be. :lol:
_________________
Hush! and hark
To the sorrowful cry
Of the wind in the dark.
Hush and hark, without murmur or sigh,
To shoon that tread the lost aeons:
To the sound that bids you to die.

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:11 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
I'm also almost sure it didn't help their case that "Better by You" wasn't at all the sort of song they thought it to be. :lol:

Hey, what do you mean with this, Abom? I'm curious.

Top
 Profile  
Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9311
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:27 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
I'm also almost sure it didn't help their case that "Better by You" wasn't at all the sort of song they thought it to be. :lol:

Hey, what do you mean with this, Abom? I'm curious.



Well, it's about a guy who's going to fight in a war and can't face a woman to tell her how he feels about it, so he says "better tell her yourself"...maybe the person he's addressing slept with the woman and so he figures "yeah, enjoy it, I'm out of here". The point is, he's hardly about to kill himself; it's not even an anti-war or protest song.

But I actually had completely forgotten about the "do it!" thing, which is ultimately the most hilarious gambit in this entire situation. THe fact that supposedly erudite people thought they could get away with this kind of thing in court just staggers me.
_________________
Hush! and hark
To the sorrowful cry
Of the wind in the dark.
Hush and hark, without murmur or sigh,
To shoon that tread the lost aeons:
To the sound that bids you to die.

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:53 pm 
 

Oh, got it. As Failsafeman said before, it would've made a lot more sense to take Beyond the Realms of Death* and blame it as the "suicide song", but they went for a song that not only didn't have anything to do with the subject, but also was a cover :lol: So yeah, stupid people say stupid shit. Nothing new.

*I'm a bit on the fence about Beyond the Realms of Death though, as I always thought it was about euthanasia.....

Top
 Profile  
Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9311
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:05 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
*I'm a bit on the fence about Beyond the Realms of Death though, as I always thought it was about euthanasia.....


I always interpreted the song as being about a catatonic who shuts himself off completely from the external environment. he's still alive physically, but he's left the world behind completely, living exclusively in his own head, hence "beyond the realms of death".
_________________
Hush! and hark
To the sorrowful cry
Of the wind in the dark.
Hush and hark, without murmur or sigh,
To shoon that tread the lost aeons:
To the sound that bids you to die.

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:17 pm 
 

Funny, I always intepreted it about an individual being in a hopeless coma, and when Rob mentions the guy's death, that led me to think that someone pulled the plug.

Beautiful lyrics, whatever they might be about.

Top
 Profile  
TadGhostal
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:31 pm
Posts: 1172
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:48 pm 
 

The rise of the PMRC coincided with the rise of the Moral Majority and the Religious Right in America. Those groups came to prominence during the Reagan administration. During the latter half of the '60s and into the '70s, the US was moving in a more morally relaxed direction. Conservative Christians weren't really a powerful voting block. Many stayed away from politics. It was with Reagan that the Right reached out and politicized these people. Look at the epic rise and power of TV evangelists during that time.

The PMRC's concern was that these musical acts were leading the youth of America astray, morally. As I recall, they initially wanted to completely block the sale of certain music to people under 18. If you are in a pop, rock, or heavy metal band, you'd be pissed, too, as "the kids" are a huge chunk of your audience and your income. The parental advisory sticker was the ultimate compromise and of course the bands wanted it because that kind of stuff enticed kids to check those albums out. I do recall some little shit at Best Buy actually refusing to sell me a Suicidal Tendencies CD in 1994 because I was 17 (he was probably 16) and it has a parental advisory sticker. I came back the next day and bought it from a different cashier.

The whole Tipper Gore thing...she was the face of the organization, and many later came to believe was the fall guy. The group was founded by a number of politically connected woman, but Tipper was young and fairly attractive so she was good one to put up in front of the cameras. Had the group succeeded in their goal, they all could have stepped forward and taken credit. But they didn't, and Tipper ended up taking all the heat.

The whole Judas Priest lawsuit was a farce from the start. It was about 2 fucked up kids from 2 fucked up families. The families (probably spurred on by lawyers looking to cash in) decided to blame the music the kids listened to instead of looking at themselves. The whole notion of backwards messages was so laughable (and that was the supposed issue with "Better By You Better Than Me"; it wasn't the actual song but the subliminal messages hidden in it by the band) yet no one stopped to ask why a band would even want to encourage their fans to commit suicide. Bill Hicks had a great routine on how it was the band's way of getting out of a tour they'd already booked.

But none of this was actually new. In the 1950s, comic books were blamed from teen violence. In the 1920s, jazz music was blamed for loose morals. This shit happens over and over.

Top
 Profile  
WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:06 pm 
 

Here's an old documentary about the Priest trial. It features footage from the actual court case. Halford had to sing a capella and plays a record backwards. "I asked her for a peppermint"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDsv_oG3KWY

Here's another example of the type of thinking the PMRC pushed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9856_xv8gc

Imagine someone like that with even an ounce of actual power.
_________________
FasterDisaster wrote:
Is her butthole hairy?

Top
 Profile  
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:47 am 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
*I'm a bit on the fence about Beyond the Realms of Death though, as I always thought it was about euthanasia.....


I always interpreted the song as being about a catatonic who shuts himself off completely from the external environment. he's still alive physically, but he's left the world behind completely, living exclusively in his own head, hence "beyond the realms of death".

Agreed though I do see the line "this is my life, I'l decide not you" and "and then he died" being about voluntary euthanasia.

Speaking of Vance v. Judas Priest and subliminal nonsense, this article by an expert witness to the trial is long-ish but very interesting and draws directly from this trial:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/scientifi ... _testimony
_________________
Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

Top
 Profile  
darkzoiltod
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:02 am
Posts: 47
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:03 am 
 

WaywardSon wrote:
Here's an old documentary about the Priest trial. It features footage from the actual court case. Halford had to sing a capella and plays a record backwards. "I asked her for a peppermint"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDsv_oG3KWY

Here's another example of the type of thinking the PMRC pushed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9856_xv8gc

Imagine someone like that with even an ounce of actual power.



The sad thing is the way the kid looked after he shoot himself(james Vance) became the the inspiration for one of my favorite characters in comics.


Image

Yes arseface
_________________
Luren pronger is the number one most hated women in edmonton.

Top
 Profile  
Iron1
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:04 am
Posts: 236
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:39 am 
 

Riffs wrote:

The PMRC itself was rather harmless. Much of the "hate" was actually fake. For artists like WASP, whose only thing they have going for them is to shock, the PMRC was actually a blessing in disguise. If you were on the PMRC's shitlist, it kinda gave you "cred" with the kids. Of course, the PMRC had a hold on certain big chains but you have to remember there were a lot more stores back then fighting for the consumer's dollar. So a lot of experts contend that all this controversy actually boosted certain artists' sales (and I would agree with that).

The stickers were harmless. It's the insanity surrounding all this, the fact that a judge seriously contemplated whether Judas Priest were responsible for two dickwads shooting themselves in the face. This is a pivotal point where America could have taken a really frightening turn for the worse.


Restless Records slapped a "Parental Advisory! Explicit Lyrics!" sticker on our first album just to bolster sales, because in the late 80s, most metal teens wouldn't even look at a record/cassette/CD that didn't have the sticker. The album only had one cuss word, which was misprinted in the lyric sheet as "mucking", so there was really no valid reason for the sticker. But we had it anyway... no clue if it really did help sales, but they swore up & down it did. Now, the re-issue doesn't have the sticker, and from what I know, hasn't sold nearly as well... could be the lack of that "Explicit Lyrics!" sticker. LOL.
_________________
So heavy if you breathe it your lungs will collapse.
IRON1

Top
 Profile  
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:24 pm 
 

Arseface :headbang:

Pfwetcher iph pfwethy pfick-afs!
_________________
Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

Top
 Profile  
Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:32 pm 
 

TadGhostal wrote:
The rise of the PMRC coincided with the rise of the Moral Majority and the Religious Right in America. Those groups came to prominence during the Reagan administration. During the latter half of the '60s and into the '70s, the US was moving in a more morally relaxed direction. Conservative Christians weren't really a powerful voting block. Many stayed away from politics. It was with Reagan that the Right reached out and politicized these people. Look at the epic rise and power of TV evangelists during that time.


But wasn't Tipper Gore a Democrat?

Top
 Profile  
soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 764
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:54 am 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
TadGhostal wrote:
The rise of the PMRC coincided with the rise of the Moral Majority and the Religious Right in America. Those groups came to prominence during the Reagan administration. During the latter half of the '60s and into the '70s, the US was moving in a more morally relaxed direction. Conservative Christians weren't really a powerful voting block. Many stayed away from politics. It was with Reagan that the Right reached out and politicized these people. Look at the epic rise and power of TV evangelists during that time.


But wasn't Tipper Gore a Democrat?


Yep.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group