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japc
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Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:37 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
wav file ripped directly from my shitty arse vengeance rising cd bootleg, whoever made the thing used mp3s or some other such lossy format
notice how the frequencies above 20 k aren't there?

Don't know the album but this may be normal (maybe the production is on the dark side), also there's not an abrupt drop on the frequency so it doesn't seem anything out of the ordinary there.

dreadmeat wrote:
and this dark angel leave scars vinyl rip

...
farkin heinous!

Not a fair comparison, the CD format only has frequencies up to 22 kHz while vinyl can go up to 45 kHz. Both are good as freqs > 22 kHz aren't heard unless you're, for instance, a dog, or a cat (well, even vinyl is lacking for cats as they can
cat detect sound all the way up to 64 kHz, and they are pretty damn cute on top of that).
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:51 pm 
 

re plot spectrum you have two different results because the 'sample size' used was different for each one, 512 and 128
the smaller the sample size the more accurate it'll be [and it'll take longer] i found using a part of the song with a lot of sound eg not the intro gave a better result, i'm not sure why they have it limited to that length, i had a few different limits presented to me about 1 to 2 minutes roughly [their wiki/faq etc likely has the answer]

my first question is: did you rip the cd to wav or mp3?
if you ripped to wav then i think amazon have some *explaining to do, as above there's nothing over 20k?
my vengeance rising cd up there is a bootleg so the jammy fucker probably just used mp3s to burn the disc

"CreateSpace works with many of the leading music labels, television networks, film studios, and other distributors to make these titles available to Amazon.com customers. All products are manufactured from original source materials (e.g., for audio products, *uncompressed CD-quality audio)."

japc sent me this link yesterday, i had a lot of fun playing with this!
i'm far from an expert but this is how i'm reading the info :p
http://www.walterdevos.be/how-to-check-quality-of-mp3-file

another cool thing i did just for a laugh was rip the first song from an original somewhere in time and the same song from the remastered one and compared them.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:55 pm 
 

addendum, oh look, japc replied at the same time
i agree, cats are cute, but those baby goat videos take some beating :roll:

also i chose the vinyl rip to show the very different results, i'm keen to try a new record with more modern production
and maybe some drum n bass vinyl too, something 100% electronic, just for the fun of it.
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androdion
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:12 pm 
 

japc wrote:
Not a fair comparison, the CD format only has frequencies up to 22 kHz while vinyl can go up to 45 kHz. Both are good as freqs > 22 kHz aren't heard unless you're, for instance, a dog, or a cat (well, even vinyl is lacking for cats as they can
cat detect sound all the way up to 64 kHz, and they are pretty damn cute on top of that).

Actually, CD audio has a sampling rate of 16bit/44Khz, what vinyl has better is a wider dynamic range. Also there's another factor that is the actual bit rate of the MP3 to CD audio conversion, since MP3 has a sampling rate identical to an audio CD. What happens, and is partially explained in that linked article, is that at lower bit rates the codec that compresses the file cuts all frequencies above a certain threshold to save physical space. MP3 at 320Kbps is capable of reproducing the audio perfectly, although the fact that it's a lossy format will make some things be lost as well, although those are the ones which can only be "felt" or heard with really high-end gear, i.e. nothing that would really make that much of a difference. But I don't even want to go down that road because this would rapidly turn into a lossy vs lossless debate. :p

What's important to realize is that if a CD is recorded from a low bit rate MP3 source it will wave a waveform with the higher frequencies completely cut out.
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japc
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:36 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Actually, CD audio has a sampling rate of 16bit/44Khz, what vinyl has better is a wider dynamic range.

That's the sampling rate, the Nyquist frequency is half that: 22 kHz.

androdion wrote:
Also there's another factor that is the actual bit rate of the MP3 to CD audio conversion, since MP3 has a sampling rate identical to an audio CD. What happens, and is partially explained in that linked article, is that at lower bit rates the codec that compresses the file cuts all frequencies above a certain threshold to save physical space. MP3 at 320Kbps is capable of reproducing the audio perfectly, although the fact that it's a lossy format will make some things be lost as well, although those are the ones which can only be "felt" or heard with really high-end gear,

For me everything over 192 I can't distinguish from the CD, it was too many years using lowsy chinese shop headphones (soft version of sticking a driller in the ear drum). Which is pretty cool as I can fit more music on the portable player, or rather "would be", because I tend to encode everything with -V0 (320/vbr) anyway with fear of missing something.

According to http://thesession.org/discussions/19642 those damned headphones eroded 2 kHz.
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Last edited by japc on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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japc
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:08 pm 
 

vulcan plutarchy wrote:
It would be interesting if you had an original copy with this same track for comparison

Grabbed my copy of http://www.discogs.com/Immortal-At-The- ... ase/394588, converted Solarfall to WAV and plotted the spectrum in Audacity. The graphic layered over your image with some transparency and slightly shifted, they seem to match flawlessly:

Image
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:07 pm 
 

hmm i was convinced i understood the data i was looking at but i may be a shade foggy still...
i ripped some crappy bootleg cd-r and a couple of legit cd-rs and some mastered [silvered] discs and the results are all the same: 20k as above
the only results that looked a lot different were the vinyl rips :scratch:

the good news is that the amazon discs are at least cd audio quality.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:07 pm 
 

japc wrote:
androdion wrote:
Actually, CD audio has a sampling rate of 16bit/44Khz, what vinyl has better is a wider dynamic range.

That's the sampling rate, the Nyquist frequency is half that: 22 kHz.

I tried reading the Wiki article about the Nyquist frequency but it's like reading Chinese! :D

So in real life all actual audio is only reproduced within the borders of the Nyquist frequency, i.e. half of the original sampling rate? And is that why the graph only shows a curve up until the upper 20Khz?

dreadmeat wrote:
the only results that looked a lot different were the vinyl rips

Reading the last linked article that actually makes sense and comes in line with what I've said before, only low bit rate MP3 sources give out crappy CD-R copies.

I still find it weird that a company would have copyright access to (supposedly) lossless source files of the albums sold by a label. It's a brave new world we're living in!
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japc
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:01 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
I tried reading the Wiki article about the Nyquist frequency but it's like reading Chinese! :D

Yes, too much info :)

Trimmed versions:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NyquistFrequency.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_rate
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Analog_and ... pling_Rate
http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/Multimedia/node149.html

androdion wrote:
So in real life all actual audio is only reproduced within the borders of the Nyquist frequency, i.e. half of the original sampling rate? And is that why the graph only shows a curve up until the upper 20Khz?

Yes.
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vulcan plutarchy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:29 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
my first question is: did you rip the cd to wav or mp3?


I did not rip it at all, I loaded it in Audacity directly from the CD. It was listed as AIFF.

Thank you for the image, japc. I'm pretty convinced that these are sourced they way they claim, regardless of the fact that the disc has no collectible or aesthetic value.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:20 am 
 

i found a couple of threads at discogs if you guys are interested in having a look [of course you are] :grin:

http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/339993
http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/235503

amazon cd-r 'faq' page, which i've bookmarked for later.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200326640
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:24 pm 
 

so if i'm reading this correctly there appears to be no way to tell if a cd has been burned from mp3 files or wav files or flac or indeed even mastered [made from the original master, i'm unsure of the actual terminology]
because they all appear to look very similar
the only way it'll look any different is if it was ripped from vinyl or burned from really crappy files, right?

that's burst my bubble a wee bit, i was hoping there was a way to tell :( :crash:

so if i wanted to make some bootleg cds all i'd have to do rip the vinyl, burn those files to the cd and claim they have "much higher bitrates than mp3s [or some other such nonsense] hence they have to be legit"
i bet the scumbag bootleggers already know about this
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androdion
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:17 pm 
 

It would be much easier to have one original copy of each rare CD and make a lossless copy of it, then you can reproduce the entire audio tracks seamlessly. No one would be able to tell the difference. And yes, according to the graphs and articles linked before you can tell if the source files were low bit rate MP3 files because of the cut-off threshold. Now if the copy is made from high bit rate MP3 or lossless files it's nearly impossible to discern I guess.

Bootlegging is actually pretty easy to do, and given the right amount of knowledge one can do near perfect bootlegs. And my fear is that it will only get worse as these items become rarer and increase in value. If those Amazon CD-Rs are indicative of anything is that a new facet of the CD market is now emerging, one where people only care about having the actual audio in physical format without having to pay loads of money. If this tendency grows one day you'll stop having labels producing actual CDs and booklets, and relinquishing that responsibility towards large distributors/retailers. I dread the day that becomes an actual possibility.
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japc
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:16 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
It would be much easier to have one original copy of each rare CD and make a lossless copy of it, then you can reproduce the entire audio tracks seamlessly. No one would be able to tell the difference. And yes, according to the graphs and articles linked before you can tell if the source files were low bit rate MP3 files because of the cut-off threshold. Now if the copy is made from high bit rate MP3 or lossless files it's nearly impossible to discern I guess.

If you use lossless you shouldn't be able to discern as they're bit equal to the wav/cdda. As for mp3 high bit rates tend to get pretty close but that depends on the encoder, you should be able to find something fishy most of the time.

This brings to mind an app I found some time ago when I was very into this stuff, it's called http://www.sonicvisualiser.org and gives plenty of ways to look at sound (I haven't explored a tiny fraction of it). To showcase the application and the wav/flac vs mp3 here's 3 spectrum screenshots (with the default colour scheme) of Carnivore's Race War:

(wav, 320kbps, 173kbps)

Spoiler: show
EAC WAV:
Image

Spoiler: show
Lame 3.99.5 320kbps:
Image

Spoiler: show
Lame 3.99.5 173kbps:
Image


The wav versions goes smoothly loosing intensity until 22 kHz, the others have artificial cutouts lower than that. But hen again they can have the cutouts and be sourced from the CD (dunno, weird filtering on the studio on something like that) or don't have the cutouts because the mp3 encoder is really amazing. Anyway, Sonic Visualizer is pretty cool.
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Last edited by japc on Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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japc
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm 
 

japc wrote:
If you use lossless you shouldn't be able to discern as they're bit equal to the wav/cdda. As for mp3 high bit rates tend to get pretty close but that depends on the encoder, you should be able to find something fishy most of the time.

Actually that works for tracks but to make an exact CD copy you need a bit more than each of the CD tracks in lossless (you'll need the pre-track gap data, for instance).
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androdion
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:47 pm 
 

japc wrote:
japc wrote:
If you use lossless you shouldn't be able to discern as they're bit equal to the wav/cdda. As for mp3 high bit rates tend to get pretty close but that depends on the encoder, you should be able to find something fishy most of the time.

Actually that works for tracks but to make an exact CD copy you need a bit more than each of the CD tracks in lossless (you'll need the pre-track gap data, for instance).

True.

Those graphs above are very interesting indeed. It would be interesting to use that program to see if older albums which are lesser compressed than more recent ones have differences above the 20Khz mark. Basically to see if loudness war actively killed everything above 20Khz on modern productions.
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Flaisch
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:23 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:44 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Those graphs above are very interesting indeed. It would be interesting to use that program to see if older albums which are lesser compressed than more recent ones have differences above the 20Khz mark. Basically to see if loudness war actively killed everything above 20Khz on modern productions.


I don't think so, if anything, the color intensity would be brighter across the whole frenquency range, up to 22 Khz.

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japc
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:13 pm 
 

Flaisch wrote:
I don't think so, if anything, the color intensity would be brighter across the whole frenquency range, up to 22 Khz.

That should never happen, most things happen on the bass, mid and high ranges, little more than cymbals and hit-hats go on the higher frequencies. So the graphic should always be brighter on the bass/mid/high. Check http://obiaudio.com/2010/07/11/eq-chart/
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Flaisch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:23 pm 
 

japc wrote:
Flaisch wrote:
I don't think so, if anything, the color intensity would be brighter across the whole frenquency range, up to 22 Khz.

That should never happen, most things happen on the bass, mid and high ranges, little more than cymbals and hit-hats go on the higher frequencies. So the graphic should always be brighter on the bass/mid/high. Check http://obiaudio.com/2010/07/11/eq-chart/


Yes, but since the loudness of the whole signal is being boosted, the higher frequencies (if present) would also be louder (have a higher amplitude than before), resulting in a brighter color in a spectrogram.
Relative to lower frequencies, of course, they will always be less intense, i.e. that upper frequency region on the specrogram will be less bright.
What i wanted to say, though, is that i think it's unlikely that modern Loudness War productions would remove any content above 20 KHz.


Edited for clarity (hopefully ;))


Last edited by Flaisch on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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japc
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:34 pm 
 

Flaisch wrote:
Yes, but since the loudness of the whole signal is being boosted, the higher frequencies will also be louder, resulting in a brighter color in a spectrogram.
Relative to lower frequencies, of course, they will always be less intense.
What i wanted to say, though, is that i think it's unlikely that modern Loudness War productions would remove any content above 20 KHz.

Yes, you're right, I don't also think there should be anything relevant (cutouts for instance) on the spectogram.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:50 pm 
 

speaking of loudness wars etc [brief thread derailment :lol: by the way do we have a thread related to this sort of stuff?]

iron maiden - somewhere in time - 01 - caught somewhere in time
both files ripped to wav from cd using the same method
top = remaster
bottom = original

Image

Image
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japc
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:08 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
speaking of loudness wars etc [brief thread derailment :lol: by the way do we have a thread related to this sort of stuff?]

iron maiden - somewhere in time - 01 - caught somewhere in time
both files ripped to wav from cd using the same method
top = remaster
bottom = original

Yes, that happens a lot. Remember the Abigal remaster I talked to you about (http://www.justiceforaudio.org/forum/vi ... f=17&t=554)? That has clipping all over the place.

But the worse I've seen is Behexen - From the Devil's Chalice, not a remaster but a case study so bear with me. I bought it yesterday from SoM sale for 3€, and upon reading some reviews what most people mentioned, besides the great music, was the lowsy mastering. I think someone made a rookie mistake somewhere as that isn't normal (just listen to it).

Track 01 - Invocation Of Zabulus, just look at how the righ channel (low graph) is completely flat at most of the time:

Image

now with view clipping (red is bad):

Image

Edit: added the waveforms.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:58 pm 
 

whoah, yeah that's really bad.
death magnetic looks similar [but not quite as much clipping] i bet defiled's in crisis album would also look interesting...
it's not so bad if the music is 'fuzzy' already, lots of distortion, death/black metal screams etc
but anything clean sounds appalling, or at least more noticeable :nono:

it pisses me off when i change cds and have to reach for the volume control lest i blow a hole in the wall
when i listened to mp3s a lot more i ran mp3gain on them but the only way i can avoid it with cds is to play them in the pc and use normalisation [which i don't want to have to do]
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slayerhatesusall
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:02 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
so if i'm reading this correctly there appears to be no way to tell if a cd has been burned from mp3 files or wav files or flac or indeed even mastered [made from the original master, i'm unsure of the actual terminology]
because they all appear to look very similar
the only way it'll look any different is if it was ripped from vinyl or burned from really crappy files, right?

that's burst my bubble a wee bit, i was hoping there was a way to tell :( :crash:

so if i wanted to make some bootleg cds all i'd have to do rip the vinyl, burn those files to the cd and claim they have "much higher bitrates than mp3s [or some other such nonsense] hence they have to be legit"
i bet the scumbag bootleggers already know about this


I use foobar2000 with the Dynamic range meter component, when you view the log files it tells you what the bit rate is. Here is one I did of Boris- Akuma no uta, intentionally ripped to my computer with lower then cd quality.

foobar2000 1.1.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2013-01-01 19:55:00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Boris / Akuma No Uta
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR5 -1.79 dB -8.63 dB 9:41 01-Introduction
DR2 0.00 dB -5.12 dB 3:22 02-Ibitsu
DR2 0.00 dB -2.94 dB 3:20 03-Furi
DR4 0.00 dB -6.88 dB 12:14 04-Naki Kyoku
DR3 0.00 dB -4.39 dB 6:29 05-Ano Onna No Onryou
DR2 0.00 dB -4.27 dB 4:01 06-Akuma No Uta
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 6
Official DR value: DR3

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bitrate: 329 kbps
Codec: AAC
================================================================================
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androdion
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:21 am 
 

Just out of curiosity, in what bit rate did you rip the CD? Around 70-80Kbps?
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slayerhatesusall
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:28 am 
 

androdion wrote:
Just out of curiosity, in what bit rate did you rip the CD? Around 70-80Kbps?

320kbps with the AAC format.
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japc
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:22 am 
 

Anyone has the Omen - Battle Cry reissue from Metal Blade with the black backcover with the large Omen Battle Cry?

Just got a copy from an amazon 3rd party (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000 ... 02_s00_i00) very cheap, and some things strike me as odd: it was sealed but one of the spines is torn, it has no inner print on the backcover but comes in a transparent jewelcase, the backcover layout is very much like the limited edition (black with the large band + title) but without the limited edition on the bottom right, the cover is very blurry and the paper feels weird.

Matrix is 14215-2 03 with a DiscUSA logo
SID codes: IFPI L794 IFPI 2D40.

Anyone with a similar edition? I guess I should discard this as a counterfeit and bug the seller, if not for anything else because of packaging + torn spine.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:10 am 
 

slayerhatesusall wrote:
androdion wrote:
Just out of curiosity, in what bit rate did you rip the CD? Around 70-80Kbps?

320kbps with the AAC format.

Now I'm confused. You said you ripped the album with "lower than cd quality"... What was it that you were trying to say with your previous post then?
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DigitalDictator
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:13 am 
 

japc wrote:
Anyone has the Omen - Battle Cry reissue from Metal Blade with the black backcover with the large Omen Battle Cry?


Matrix is 14215-2 03 with a DiscUSA logo
SID codes: IFPI L794 IFPI 2D40.

Anyone with a similar edition? I guess I should discard this as a counterfeit and bug the seller, if not for anything else because of packaging + torn spine.


If you post a photo I can compare it with other DiscUSA matrix that I have.
I don't think that logo could be easily faked...

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japc
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:51 am 
 

DigitalDictator wrote:
If you post a photo I can compare it with other DiscUSA matrix that I have.
I don't think that logo could be easily faked...


Yes, I guess you're right. In the meantime I contacted Metal Blade and they kindly replied that that matrix data matches for the release and DiscUSA was/is their manufacturer.

Anyway, the photos:

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DigitalDictator
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:41 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:57 pm 
 

japc wrote:
DigitalDictator wrote:
If you post a photo I can compare it with other DiscUSA matrix that I have.
I don't think that logo could be easily faked...


Yes, I guess you're right. In the meantime I contacted Metal Blade and they kindly replied that that matrix data matches for the release and DiscUSA was/is their manufacturer.



100% LEGIT. Don't worry!
I compared it with my copy of Helstar's A distant Thunder and everything matches: logo, matrix font and ifpi.
The only difference is that I have a date (2/11/05) on the left of the matrix (mine is 14207-2/03)

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:42 pm 
 

Metal Blade actually replied?! awesome :metal:
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japc
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
Posts: 502
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:36 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Metal Blade actually replied?! awesome :metal:

Never doubted they would. From NB or CM I wouldn't expected anything but Metal Blade, Black Mark or Osmose, for instance, or any smaller label, I know they are cool and interested guys.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:39 pm 
 

i emailed osmose about the angelcorpse cds a while ago, not a dickybird...
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japc
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
Posts: 502
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:50 pm 
 

I had this reply from Metal Blade, other than that a talk (several messages exchanged) about a Immortal Pure Holocaust weird issue with Osmose, a reply from Black Mark about a Edge of Sanity bitrotted-to-transparency CD and a reply from Peaceville about the Autopsy Mental Funeral reissue, that I remember.

Got silence from Nuclear Blast about a Hypocrisy Pleasures of Molestation digi bitrotted-to-transparency and silence from Roadrunner when I inquired about the criminal King Diamond Abigail reissue.

I always ask because labels should be asked.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm 
 

i also got silence from nuclear blast about my immolation majesty and decay cd
the seller i got it from musiccocktail now has some very bad feedback on ebay...
they are in the ukraine not russia and they are a chick not a guy
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japc
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
Posts: 502
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:43 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
i also got silence from nuclear blast about my immolation majesty and decay cd
the seller i got it from musiccocktail now has some very bad feedback on ebay...
they are in the ukraine not russia and they are a chick not a guy

Ei, maybe she create the ebay account in the 80s and forgot to update the info :)
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somberlain93
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:59 am 
 

I'm not being a troll or anything but I have to ask........... why are people so obsessed with matrix numbers and bar codes and shit? What happened to just listening to albums and enjoying them? I'm all for people still buying physical CDs and shit but wow. Every time I try to sell something on ebay, I get 20 messages asking for close-up pics of the matrix numbers and all these ridiculous questions.

In the case of bootlegs, I understand no one wants fake albums. Of course. But when it's a difference between a first or second pressing, who gives a shit? Just my take. Not in any way an insult to anyone in this thread.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5095
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:12 am 
 

Well, we started this thread because the boards were always flooded with matrix/bootleg requests anyway, so now it's all centralized here. Answering your question is easy, just look at how inflated and expensive many CDs get to be in online selling platforms. Of course one wants to be reassured the money is being well spent, would you spend $50+ on a rarity without checking its veracity? Also many people buy bootlegs because they have no idea of some things like matrix and IPFI codes, so this might prove helpful for those as well.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:29 am 
 

enter the matrix
Image

i don't consider your comment to be troll-like, it's a fairly reasonable 'observation'
it makes me feel more awesome knowing i'm in possession of an original
some people care and some people don't, hell i've spoken to people who bought cheap home burned cdrs and had no idea until i told them
if you don't like answering those questions, pre-empt them and just put up the info like i do
the fact you even know what this information is gives the buyer more confidence, they think they're buying from a pro
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