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orionmetalhead
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:22 am 
 

Does anyone have any knowledge of Manilla Road bootleg LPs or CDs? I know that there are a few listed on their site such as the Dreams of Eschaton demo CD and some of the stuff that was licensed without the permission of the band but with the permission of Black Dragon Records to magazines and such.

Anyone familiar with any others?
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:12 pm 
 

just found a cianide - divide and conquer cd i want to buy, can anyone confirm this matrix info?
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Cianide/Divide_and_Conquer/10579
merciless records
MRCD 013 P+O-49777-A1 09-00

Image
Image
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carnival_corpse
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:12 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:34 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
just found a cianide - divide and conquer cd i want to buy, can anyone confirm this matrix info?
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Cianide/Divide_and_Conquer/10579
merciless records
MRCD 013 P+O-49777-A1 09-00

Image
Image
Image



Yes, thats the same matrix number I have in my Cianide's Divide and Conquer

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:37 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
just found a cianide - divide and conquer cd i want to buy, can anyone confirm this matrix info?
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Cianide/Divide_and_Conquer/10579
merciless records
MRCD 013 P+O-49777-A1 09-00
carnival_corpse wrote:
Yes, thats the same matrix number I have in my Cianide's Divide and Conquer

wicked, thanks man
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Osmi_Putnik
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:48 pm
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:06 pm 
 

Brutalizer79 wrote:
I'm hoping someone more familiar with the following couple of items can help me out. I bought Angel Dust Into the Dark Past and to Dust You Will Decay, used from Amazon. The Amazon seller didn't list anything special about them such as being rare or OOP(At the time I didn't know the rarity of these two CDs), the description more or less just covered the condition of the actual items.

I recieved the the items today, and I checked the condition first, which as described, where in very good shape. Now that I know how rare they are I have been researching them. I'm still unsure of a couple of things, which is why I'm posting this here.

I'll start with To Dust You Will Decay and between the picture comparisons, discogs listing, and musik-sammler I have no reason to suspect that this one isn't real but here are some details of it just in case:
The sides of the inlay say Angel Dust / To Dust You Will Decay with Disaster CD 10008 at the other end
The Cd has 11 tracks with the songs Flight to Russia and Dawn of the End being labeled as bonus
The Book has the lyrics of all the songs other then the two bonus and a band photo on the last page. The back page of the booklet is the same as the inlay.
The only numbers on the inner ring of the cd which I'm geussing is the matrix for this is 10008 P+O-1509-A 06-88

The Into the Dark Past I used the Metal Treasure comparisons of the back page and mine so far checks out with the original shown on that site. The sides say Angel Dust on one side with Scratch 880 534 CD on the other.
The Cd has 8 tracks and the book contains the lyrics for all and live photos on the back page showing each member.
The only number on the inner ring of the CD is Scratch 880 534-905 P+O-0567-A 7-86

If any of this stands out as a red flag, please let me know. I may put some pictures up later when I get some time in order to provide better detail.

Thanks to anyone who can provide some help with this.


Upload scans, describe is no good!!!

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BottomFeeder1
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Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:09 am
Posts: 326
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:19 am 
 

Hey,
Looking for an album that is yellow on black background drawling of a hooded bad ass ( grim reaper mabey?)dude throwing a ninja star or something sharp at you. Apparently it's a speed/thrash album from the 80's. My friend can't remember the name of this album and has been trying to find it, do you know what it is?

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BottomFeeder1
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:32 am 
 

^^ it turns out it was the band was Virtue and the ep title being " We Stand and Fight".

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aeternus1990
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 449
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:18 pm 
 

Brutalizer79 wrote:
Thanks to anyone who can provide some help with this.


Original "To Dust You Will Decay" CD scans: 1 | 2
I hope it will help you to identify your CD. If the price wasn't like 200-300$ as it should be for original, I guess it's bootleg.

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:36 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
these are my discoveries to date, i'll exclude the angelcorpse ones... they were obvious home-burns
Nebula - Peel Session
Once Dead - Vengeance Rising
Scorched-Earth - Mars

Discogs matrix info
http://www.discogs.com/help/submission-guidelines-release-format.html#CD_Matrix

SID Code Implementation Guide [.pdf file]
http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/sid-code-implementation-guide.pdf

identification of pirate and counterfeit discs [.pdf file]
http://www.reportmusicpiracy.co.nz/Identifing_Pirate_CD-DVD.pdf


turns out Scorched-Earth - Mars is all above board, i bumped into someone who got a copy directly from the band.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:46 am 
 

re Pungent Stench ‎– "Club Mondo Bizarre" For Members Only [censored, us version]

can anyone who has this confirm that the spines say NBA 6904-2 but the disc says NB 079-2
GEMA and LC xxxx [rights society and label code] on the disc
matrix says manufactured by KAO Optical Products i'll confirm specifics when i'm not playing the cd...

it has 14 songs [incl the karaoke ones] and a severely crippled booklet, 4 leaves no dodgy monkey pic etc :roll:

usa packaging german disc?
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carnival_corpse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:35 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
re Pungent Stench ‎– "Club Mondo Bizarre" For Members Only [censored, us version]

can anyone who has this confirm that the spines say NBA 6904-2 but the disc says NB 079-2
GEMA and LC xxxx [rights society and label code] on the disc
matrix says manufactured by KAO Optical Products i'll confirm specifics when i'm not playing the cd...

it has 14 songs [incl the karaoke ones] and a severely crippled booklet, 4 leaves no dodgy monkey pic etc :roll:

usa packaging german disc?



My copy has NBA RED 6097-2 on the spine, disc has LC 7027, GEMA P&C 1994, NB 079-2 ... Matrix is : Manufactured by KAO Optical...

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:53 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
re Pungent Stench ‎– "Club Mondo Bizarre" For Members Only [censored, us version]

can anyone who has this confirm that the spines say NBA 6904-2 but the disc says NB 079-2
GEMA and LC xxxx [rights society and label code] on the disc
matrix says manufactured by KAO Optical Products i'll confirm specifics when i'm not playing the cd...

it has 14 songs [incl the karaoke ones] and a severely crippled booklet, 4 leaves no dodgy monkey pic etc :roll:

usa packaging german disc?
carnival_corpse wrote:
My copy has NBA RED 6097-2 on the spine, disc has LC 7027, GEMA P&C 1994, NB 079-2 ... Matrix is : Manufactured by KAO Optical...

ok cool, looks like the same disc but with different packaging, yours has the 4 karaoke songs?
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carnival_corpse
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:11 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
dreadmeat wrote:
re Pungent Stench ‎– "Club Mondo Bizarre" For Members Only [censored, us version]

can anyone who has this confirm that the spines say NBA 6904-2 but the disc says NB 079-2
GEMA and LC xxxx [rights society and label code] on the disc
matrix says manufactured by KAO Optical Products i'll confirm specifics when i'm not playing the cd...

it has 14 songs [incl the karaoke ones] and a severely crippled booklet, 4 leaves no dodgy monkey pic etc :roll:

usa packaging german disc?
carnival_corpse wrote:
My copy has NBA RED 6097-2 on the spine, disc has LC 7027, GEMA P&C 1994, NB 079-2 ... Matrix is : Manufactured by KAO Optical...

ok cool, looks like the same disc but with different packaging, yours has the 4 karaoke songs?


Yes, it has the 4 extra songs

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:49 pm 
 

cool, thanks.

anyone got an original Loudness - Hurricane Eyes cd?
WPCL-255

http://www.discogs.com/Loudness-Hurricane-Eyes/release/4114853
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orionmetalhead
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:38 am 
 

Anyone have a first press of Master's Hammer - Jilemnice Occultist? I'd like to compare mine, which I purchased in a second hand store for $5 to an original copy.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:56 pm 
 

throw up some scans dude, disc and rear cover, i'd post the matrix info too and/or a photo of it
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:23 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
scans of my intronaut void disc, if anyone could compare theirs would be helpful
catalogue number - GFR042
barcode - 621617104228
matrix - KJRY [logo] CDR UG 80E I441603
printed - 5P80 1-2-1 0811010635-54

Image Image


any more comments of this intronaut void cd?
the booklet and rear cover look fine, the printed side of the disc also looks fine
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carnival_corpse
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 pm 
 

For those collectors out there. I have a copy of Viogression's Passage in Tombstone Records/Progressive International from 1992, however my matrix number has an IFPI code: THE PASSAGE X6829T IFPI L531

Didnt the IFPI codes started to be used in 1994? I will appreciate if any one can confirm if this matrix number is the correct one?

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:02 am 
 

that's correct mate, 1994 = ifpi sid codes
the ifpi.org site has that written somewhere but i can never find it, it might be on one of their .pdf forms
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nhh
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:06 am 
 

.


Last edited by nhh on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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carnival_corpse
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:54 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
that's correct mate, 1994 = ifpi sid codes
the ifpi.org site has that written somewhere but i can never find it, it might be on one of their .pdf forms



Do you have this CD? If so, what is the matrix number in yours?

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:48 pm 
 

no i don't have it mate i was just confirming the ifpi date question
have you had a look at discogs?

the page is incomplete
http://www.discogs.com/Viogression-Passage/release/2242496
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:51 pm 
 

Deströyer 666 ‎– Unchain The Wolves CD
original or reissue from any country
can anyone confirm a distribution code on the rear cover, it'll possibly say IRS xxxxx
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Big_Grand
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:14 pm 
 

I saw the Osmose version of Below the Lights at FYE about two years ago, and this version had a backslip with pictures of the band members on the back, but I didnt buy it that day. Instead, I picked it up at Reckless Records in Chicago IL a month or two later, but I noticed it had a different backslip, with the same artwork from the disc, and it also had a sticker that said it was for promotional use only and not for resale. Does anyone know if there is anything special about the promo version of this album? Was it released in limited quantities, handed out at concerts, released in a specific region, ect?

the matric is te036

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:22 pm 
 

TE = The End Records, you possibly have the US promo version, the other promo on discogs is possibly the EU version
is that the entire matrix, verbatim?
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Big_Grand
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:30 pm 
 

That was the label code on the side, sorry. the matrix is 8313 BELOWLIGHT 01

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Tormented666
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:56 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:28 pm 
 

autopsy mental funeral jewelcase version 1991
does not say MASTERED BY NIMBUS, says Ifpi LD02 and ifpi 5J26, VLE 25 N61404 on back Matrixrunout,
VILE 25 CD RT GERMANY 320 0025 2 40 on front disc.
Front disk does not have matrix runout because of printing on whole cd.

UK version?

is this a real pressing I have bought? not to familiar with bootlegs and stuff...

regards
magnus

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:35 pm 
 

the front [of the] disc doesn't have a matrix because it's not the matrix area of the disc.
any chance of some photos or scans? it's not an original from 1991.

that catalogue number [if that's what it is] sounds similar to this cassette
http://www.discogs.com/Autopsy-Mental-Funeral/release/2918384
RT could be Rough Trade perhaps?
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carnival_corpse
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:42 pm 
 

carnival_corpse wrote:
For those collectors out there. I have a copy of Viogression's Passage in Tombstone Records/Progressive International from 1992, however my matrix number has an IFPI code: THE PASSAGE X6829T IFPI L531

Didnt the IFPI codes started to be used in 1994? I will appreciate if any one can confirm if this matrix number is the correct one?



Can someone pl;ease post the matrix number on Viogression's Passage CD?

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:41 pm 
 

i just asked for some info on the discogs page [link above] hopefully someone there will add it, hope that helps man.
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vulcan plutarchy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:43 am 
 

Manufactured by Amazon.com discs:
There had been some discussion in the recent purchases thread about these discs and having received one as a gift, several posters asked me to help elaborate so we could figure out the ins and outs of this thing, so I'll attempt to show what I can here. This deals with CDs ordered from Amazon with this caveat: "CD-R Note: This product is manufactured on demand when ordered from Amazon.com. [Learn more]"

Example: http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Root/dp/B004KZQ3KW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356672512&sr=8-1&keywords=root+the+book

Images of the case/layout here:

Spoiler: show
Image
Laptop camera is not the best. Cover photo is grainy with a border around it. Back of insert is nondescript page with tracklist and name of record label only. No year, list of musicians, anything.

Image
Inside of the insert is totally blank.

Image
Disc obverse. Glossy finish.

Image
Disc reverse. Appears silver to me. Written around inner ring: T80-UG-5, (10312102).

Image
Case reverse. Written above barcode: "Manufactured by Amazon.com (indiscernible: kydc, lyde?) Lexington KY"
Below: 8 8647079501 7


There was a question over whether or not the files were sourced by mp3s or by uncompressed audio, and some users requested I take screen shots of the waveform. They are below. Amazon.com's claim: "CreateSpace works with many of the leading music labels, television networks, film studios, and other distributors to make these titles available to Amazon.com customers. All products are manufactured from original source materials (e.g., for audio products, uncompressed CD-quality audio)."

Spoiler: show
Image
Solarfall

Image
Zoomed in.

I don't know what I'm looking for here, so I hope these are sufficient.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:35 am 
 

audacity > analyze > plot spectrum
also on the left there's little arrow, click it and you get some view options, eg spectrogram
excellent work so far
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:09 am 
 

wav file ripped directly from my shitty arse vengeance rising cd bootleg, whoever made the thing used mp3s or some other such lossy format
notice how the frequencies above 20 k aren't there?

Image

Image

and this dark angel leave scars vinyl rip

Image

Image

farkin heinous!
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vulcan plutarchy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:42 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
audacity > analyze > plot spectrum
also on the left there's little arrow, click it and you get some view options, eg spectrogram
excellent work so far


Plot Spectrum:
Spoiler: show
Image

I ran this three times. Two of the times it looked like this (above), the other time it looked like this:

Image

Maybe an error? I included it for good measure. I should also note that when running the plot spectrum it said I couldn't analyze the full length of audio and selected only the first 200-some seconds.

Certainly appears to drop off slightly after 20k.


Spectrograph:
Spoiler: show
Image


It would be interesting if you had an original copy with this same track for comparison.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:56 pm 
 

vulcan plutarchy wrote:
It would be interesting if you had an original copy with this same track for comparison.

That would certainly make things clearer to everyone who isn't able to read all this raw data. The curve does seem to take a nose dive after the 20Khz mark though.
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japc
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:37 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
wav file ripped directly from my shitty arse vengeance rising cd bootleg, whoever made the thing used mp3s or some other such lossy format
notice how the frequencies above 20 k aren't there?

Don't know the album but this may be normal (maybe the production is on the dark side), also there's not an abrupt drop on the frequency so it doesn't seem anything out of the ordinary there.

dreadmeat wrote:
and this dark angel leave scars vinyl rip

...
farkin heinous!

Not a fair comparison, the CD format only has frequencies up to 22 kHz while vinyl can go up to 45 kHz. Both are good as freqs > 22 kHz aren't heard unless you're, for instance, a dog, or a cat (well, even vinyl is lacking for cats as they can
cat detect sound all the way up to 64 kHz, and they are pretty damn cute on top of that).
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:51 pm 
 

re plot spectrum you have two different results because the 'sample size' used was different for each one, 512 and 128
the smaller the sample size the more accurate it'll be [and it'll take longer] i found using a part of the song with a lot of sound eg not the intro gave a better result, i'm not sure why they have it limited to that length, i had a few different limits presented to me about 1 to 2 minutes roughly [their wiki/faq etc likely has the answer]

my first question is: did you rip the cd to wav or mp3?
if you ripped to wav then i think amazon have some *explaining to do, as above there's nothing over 20k?
my vengeance rising cd up there is a bootleg so the jammy fucker probably just used mp3s to burn the disc

"CreateSpace works with many of the leading music labels, television networks, film studios, and other distributors to make these titles available to Amazon.com customers. All products are manufactured from original source materials (e.g., for audio products, *uncompressed CD-quality audio)."

japc sent me this link yesterday, i had a lot of fun playing with this!
i'm far from an expert but this is how i'm reading the info :p
http://www.walterdevos.be/how-to-check-quality-of-mp3-file

another cool thing i did just for a laugh was rip the first song from an original somewhere in time and the same song from the remastered one and compared them.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:55 pm 
 

addendum, oh look, japc replied at the same time
i agree, cats are cute, but those baby goat videos take some beating :roll:

also i chose the vinyl rip to show the very different results, i'm keen to try a new record with more modern production
and maybe some drum n bass vinyl too, something 100% electronic, just for the fun of it.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:12 pm 
 

japc wrote:
Not a fair comparison, the CD format only has frequencies up to 22 kHz while vinyl can go up to 45 kHz. Both are good as freqs > 22 kHz aren't heard unless you're, for instance, a dog, or a cat (well, even vinyl is lacking for cats as they can
cat detect sound all the way up to 64 kHz, and they are pretty damn cute on top of that).

Actually, CD audio has a sampling rate of 16bit/44Khz, what vinyl has better is a wider dynamic range. Also there's another factor that is the actual bit rate of the MP3 to CD audio conversion, since MP3 has a sampling rate identical to an audio CD. What happens, and is partially explained in that linked article, is that at lower bit rates the codec that compresses the file cuts all frequencies above a certain threshold to save physical space. MP3 at 320Kbps is capable of reproducing the audio perfectly, although the fact that it's a lossy format will make some things be lost as well, although those are the ones which can only be "felt" or heard with really high-end gear, i.e. nothing that would really make that much of a difference. But I don't even want to go down that road because this would rapidly turn into a lossy vs lossless debate. :p

What's important to realize is that if a CD is recorded from a low bit rate MP3 source it will wave a waveform with the higher frequencies completely cut out.
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japc
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Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:36 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Actually, CD audio has a sampling rate of 16bit/44Khz, what vinyl has better is a wider dynamic range.

That's the sampling rate, the Nyquist frequency is half that: 22 kHz.

androdion wrote:
Also there's another factor that is the actual bit rate of the MP3 to CD audio conversion, since MP3 has a sampling rate identical to an audio CD. What happens, and is partially explained in that linked article, is that at lower bit rates the codec that compresses the file cuts all frequencies above a certain threshold to save physical space. MP3 at 320Kbps is capable of reproducing the audio perfectly, although the fact that it's a lossy format will make some things be lost as well, although those are the ones which can only be "felt" or heard with really high-end gear,

For me everything over 192 I can't distinguish from the CD, it was too many years using lowsy chinese shop headphones (soft version of sticking a driller in the ear drum). Which is pretty cool as I can fit more music on the portable player, or rather "would be", because I tend to encode everything with -V0 (320/vbr) anyway with fear of missing something.

According to http://thesession.org/discussions/19642 those damned headphones eroded 2 kHz.
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Last edited by japc on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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