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iloveblackmetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:30 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:21 pm 
 

Seriously there is allways some idiot who is like HAHA THAT GUY IS SUCH A FAGGOT!!

Its like that on any site.

seriously whats the problem with homo/bi sexuality

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MARSDUDE
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:24 pm 
 

Some people hate what they don't understand. Factor in anonymity, and that inner jackass theory becomes true.

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henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:31 pm 
 

The word faggot doesn't always have to be used in that context. Especially on the internet it has become just another swear word that is used without even thinking of homosexuality.
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Napero
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:50 pm 
 

Now, a word of warning to everybody: this is a flammable subject, so behave! I will not lock this yet, but ANY asshattery is subject to insta-bans. That includes butt-sex comedy, joking on the bible's archaic views on the issue, outright hate speech, and what have you. unless you have something smart to say, shut the fuck up. In cases like this, I don't care about your posting history if you behave like a human butt. You have been warned.
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iloveblackmetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:30 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:51 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
Now, a word of warning to everybody: this is a flammable subject, so behave! I will not lock this yet, but ANY asshattery is subject to insta-bans. That includes butt-sex comedy, joking on the bible's archaic views on the issue, outright hate speech, and what have you. unless you have something smart to say, shut the fuck up. In cases like this, I don't care about your posting history if you behave like a human butt. You have been warned.


Thank you

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Snowgrave
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:22 pm 
 

To answer your question as simply as possible: nothing.
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CorpseFister
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:07 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:31 pm 
 

See the above post.

On another note, I've made a conscious effort to change my language over the last few years because it does affect how we think and feel. It's still quite common but as far as I'm concerned using the word gay as a pejorative to describe a band/movie/weather/taco someone doesn't like is simply not cool.

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metaldiscussor666
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:09 pm
Posts: 560
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:35 pm 
 

Nothing. I think Henry Rollins said it best. I'm partially putting what he said into my own interpretation right now. Either your religion makes you biased, or some people just like to hate. Personally I think it's something that's taught. People just hate them because everyone else does. Or your parents or church teach you that it's wrong. Either you gain an acceptance or tolerance, you don't care, or you fall under any of the intolerant and hateful categories. Years of social conservatism and archaic views certainly don't help. I think for the most part not many people hate gays. Not to mention faggot is just a popular slur word. Ever notice how much little kids use it on Xbox live? They probably don't even know what it means.
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Xlxlx
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:13 pm 
 

There's nothing wrong with it, really. Nothing at all. I mean, a crime where there's no victim isn't a crime, right? Now, if you do have a problem with homosexuality, it's most likely because A) you subscribe to some kind of backwards, dated ideology or B) you simply are a dick (and probably enjoy being one, too). These are just my personal assumptions, for sure, though they aren't baseless at all.
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Thashierthanthou
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:18 pm 
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcja4WFFzDw

Basically sums up my thoughts on the word faggot and homosexuality.
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ClaymanOnFire
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Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:39 pm 
 

I'd just like to throw this out there, regarding Christianity. While the bible has some passages labeling homosexuality as a sin, the point of the entire book is to love one another. Christians who are spewing vitriol about homo- and bisexuals seem to me more in conflict with their own beliefs than the victims of the slanderer. The irony is one of the most commonly used bible verses in condemning homosexuality (Romans 1:26, if you're interested) is immediately followed by this: "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgement on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgement do the same things."

EDIT: if another Christian (or anyone who has read the new testament, for that matter) would like to criticize or add to anything I just said, please don't hesitate. As iron sharpens iron.
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TheUglySoldier
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:36 pm 
 

The changing meaning of words is something that really interests me, and it is definitely relevant here. I grew up knowing one of my Dad's best mates who is gay, and so it has never even entered my head as a problematic thing. However, as I got older I did, like many people, start using the word "faggot" as a basic replacement for "dickhead", "motherfucker", etc, without really thinking.

I actually discussed this with a mate after a party at a friend's place, whose brother is gay, and his boyfriend was there, too. Like any other night out, we ribbed each other a lot and were constantly calling one another "faggot", stupidly not realizing the connotations. That being said, there didn't seem to be any bad vibes coming from either of the gay guys at the party. Regardless, we all felt a little bit stupid when it dawned on us that we could have actually offended them. I don't know if we did, and honestly hope we didn't.

But no, there isn't anything wrong with homosexuality - folks like different things. I've never seen homosexuals, transsexuals (I'm not trying to lump the two together here), or anything else as a bad thing, and it honestly doesn't make sense to me why anyone would.
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yentass
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Location: Israel
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:55 am 
 

Thashierthanthou wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcja4WFFzDw

Pretty much that, if you can understand the context.

"Homosexual" and "faggot" may share a meaning, but not the context. AFAIC, a faggot is a homosexual who's obnoxiously flamboyant about it (or someone who acts as such). I think many would agree that the anything that's "obnoxiously flamboyant" is equally irritating no matter what the description is attached to, whether it's straight people, homosexuals, religious people etc. Hell, even the gay people I know hate faggots.
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Crick
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:01 am 
 

yentass wrote:
Hell, even the gay people I know hate faggots.


It's because acting like a giant flaming queen encourages people to believe negative and silly stereotypes about gay people. It's almost like a harsher way of saying "big gay idiot", if you think about it. :D
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mcmufffins
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:32 am 
 

Erm... there's nothing wrong with being gay. "Faggot" is starting to (has already?) lose that meaning and is just starting to become a general insult.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:06 am 
 

The above. The word "faggot" is starting to go much the same way that "nigger" did, losing its current meaning due to all the general use of it. However, "faggot" is much more being used as a term of disdain or insult than "nigger", which has been adopted by many in the black community as a term of endearment, at least in the United States.

In the end though, words only have meaning when said meaning is placed upon them by people. If people didn't do things such as this, then there'd be no hullaballoo over any "curse" words being used. Pretty much everyone on this site swears like a sailor, as do plenty people I know in my own life.
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Yahko
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:33 am 
 

I'm not that sure that the word faggot is being used as casual within the homosexual community as the word nigger is being used within the black community. I might be wrong.

As far as the insult of the word faggot - its much more offensive to strait men because if some one attacks your sexual orientation it hurts more than some one calls you a dumbass, idiot, fucker, etc. In addition to that being a homosexual is considered much more taboo and ugly than being an idiot or an asshole. That surely is changing with the media, actors and singers who are advocating that being gay is nothing wrong but the human race is still far from accepting that - so calling you something that isnt accepted is probably hurtful.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:54 am 
 

It really wouldn't surprise me if faggot was used by at least a few people within the gay community as a term of endearment the way nigger is in the black community.

As for the topic in the OP, there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. I've known gay people in the past, only one of which fit the "fabulous" stereotype, and I've never had a problem with them.
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Burnyoursins
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:41 am 
 

Hey, I love gay people, (minus the ones who feel the need to make it painfully obvious they're gay), but if anyone is getting offended by the word, "faggot", nowadays, I think someone needs to learn to be a little less sensitive. Also, it IS quite frequently used in the gay community, in the same way a black person would use the word "nigger". I, however, am very confused when African-Americans become offended when a white person calls another white person a nigger. I mean, come on, you call each other niggers, but it's not cool for a white dude to call another white dude a nigger? I get that it was used as an insult towards blacks decades ago, but they basically run around call each other what basically comes down to an extremely insulting way of saying "slave", so.. Anyway. I know plenty of gay men and women, and I don't have a problem with them, my own sister is gay. I DO have a problem with the uppity types, though. I don't see straight people walking around in leather thongs in public, I don't see how it should be okay for homosexuals to do it.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:10 am 
 

I'm a bit mortified heterosexuals here are supporting the use of the word "faggot" as a pejorative. Guys, you can't reclaim a word if it never had anything to do with you in the first place. There's a very specific reason people within the American black community say "the n-word" and there's a very specific reason people within the gay community say "faggot," and guess what? It has literally nothing to do with YOU.

I definitely don't find Louis C.K. (or anyone else in this thread who supports the casual use of the word "faggot") homophobic, but I do find that particular mindset eminently annoying and ultimately harmful to equal rights. In my eyes, straight people who employ it regularly are approaching an incredibly complex issue with the sort of gleeful chutzpah I'd expect from a thirteen year old boy who just watched a PBS special on the first amendment ("it's my RIGHT to say what I like, who cares if it hurts someone").

To exemplify my point:
When the Westboro Baptist Church says "faggot": BAD. THEY'RE BIGOTED HOMOPHOBES.
When heterosexual and self-professed liberal Louis C.K. says "faggot": GOOD. AND VERY VERY FUNNY.
Toss into the mix the lack of statistical measure for how "faggy" someone could be classified as (after all, one man's fag is another man's stag) as well as no real consensus on how "faggot" should even be used (is it just a generic insult, completely interchangeable with slangs for the mentally disabled, or does it specifically describe gay guys who are deemed too "camp") and you can see how unbelievably confusing this can get.

Just leave it alone, guys. This one's still white hot; there's plenty of others that have since cooled down. Use those instead. You bus wankers.
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deathsane
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:42 am 
 

As usual it is the non-gay people getting vicariously offended for the gay people. It seems to me that any sensible gay person can deal with it just fine, but some patronizing "insert an insult"'s are for some reason sure that gays are such delicate people that it would be way too much to ask of them to handle it like "normal human beings". I'd understand gay people getting offended by this behavior more than them getting offended by the words themselves.

The problem is pretty much never the offensive words used but the people who get offended by them anyway. If people weren't such pussies that they got offended by such silly and insignificant stuff the world might one day even be a decent place to live in. It's about time to get over being offended; it's childish.

darkeningday wrote:
When the Westboro Baptist Church says "faggot": BAD. THEY'RE BIGOTED HOMOPHOBES.
When heterosexual and self-professed liberal Louis C.K. says "faggot": GOOD. AND VERY VERY FUNNY.


See, you get it. It's the attitude or the point of view that can be good or bad not the word itself. Why do you think that gay people are not capable of such distinctions?

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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:25 am 
 

I'm not offended for anyone (what's that even supposed to mean?) "faggot" is just such a moronic insult that it's embarrassing for society as a whole that it is so common.
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deathsane
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:34 am 
 

It means that gay people seem to handle the word fine, but straight people are making a fuss about the word that's supposed to be offensive for the gays.

Could you list all the insults that are embarrassing for society as a whole Mr. Society? So I'd know what not to use.

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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:36 am 
 

:durr:
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deathsane
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:37 am 
 

Great argument. You convinced me.

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BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:38 am 
 

How can anyone think homsexuality is OK? It has well known inherent flaws, such as showing up on enemy radar.

Seriously though, faggot just has different connotations these days. It's seems to be evolving into something almost totally unrelated to gays in a lot of contexts when it's used.

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The Orange Man
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:54 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:34 pm 
 

Quote:
I definitely don't find Louis C.K. (or anyone else in this thread who supports the casual use of the word "faggot") homophobic, but I do find that particular mindset eminently annoying and ultimately harmful to equal rights. In my eyes, straight people who employ it regularly are approaching an incredibly complex issue with the sort of gleeful chutzpah I'd expect from a thirteen year old boy who just watched a PBS special on the first amendment ("it's my RIGHT to say what I like, who cares if it hurts someone").


This is pretty much my mindset, as well. The only times I use the word 'faggot' is when I'm mocking somebody that uses it liberally. Otherwise, there are plenty of other awesome words out there to use that are far more offensive and cause very little disrespect to a large group of people.

As far as bringing the n-bomb into the picture, the only use for that word is to keep racial inequality alive and well. It doesn't matter if you're black or not, and it doesn't matter if the word is used as a term of endearment or not. It's a word specifically used to separate people by the color of their skin.

Neither one of those words offend me even though my family contains whites, blacks, homosexuals, and heterosexuals...but if both of those words dropped off the face of the earth I wouldn't shed any tears over it.

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Aurone
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:30 pm 
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKqKsXdokCM

Yes, that's a cartoon on homosexuality and yes it has some jokes, but it actually does offer actual facts on homosexuality about how it's natural and normal personal trait of people. I really advice watching it, its entertaining while still being enlightening.

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Crick
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:13 pm 
 

The Orange Man wrote:
As far as bringing the n-bomb into the picture, the only use for that word is to keep racial inequality alive and well. It doesn't matter if you're black or not, and it doesn't matter if the word is used as a term of endearment or not. It's a word specifically used to separate people by the color of their skin.


I dunno, it doesn't seem to separate people anymore if you can say "That nigger made the shit out of my coffee" about some shaggy white guy at a coffee shop. It's already readily losing its racial connotation.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:22 pm 
 

What always annoys me about this issue is that people always feel the need to bring their personal feelings into it - "I don't hate homosexuals at all, I just like saying 'faggot!'" - as if their personal feelings and motivations affect the issue at all. It's the same for people who claim they aren't racist or homophobic, they just like racist/homophobic jokes because they offend people - newsflash: if you walk like a duck, talk like a duck, and act like a duck, you're a racist or a homophobe whether or not you personally feel that way on the inside. To use an extreme example, it'd be like some average citizen in Nazi Germany persecuting the Jews with everyone else but claiming they weren't anti-Semitic because they didn't actually hate the Jews, they just like words like "kike" and jokes about Jews make them laugh. Obviously homosexuals have it a lot better here than the Jews did in Nazi Germany, but people looooove to delude themselves that doing a homophobe's work doesn't make them a homophobe, just because of their feelies.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:24 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
The Orange Man wrote:
As far as bringing the n-bomb into the picture, the only use for that word is to keep racial inequality alive and well. It doesn't matter if you're black or not, and it doesn't matter if the word is used as a term of endearment or not. It's a word specifically used to separate people by the color of their skin.


I dunno, it doesn't seem to separate people anymore if you can say "That nigger made the shit out of my coffee" about some shaggy white guy at a coffee shop. It's already readily losing its racial connotation.


I know a few people that use it in the context of "an ignorant person", the definition it had before it got adopted as an anti-black slur. Ironically the only people I've seen that still get horribly offended by the word's use are white people. Pretty much every black person I've ever known has just brushed off being called a nigger in the offensive way without doing much aside from rolling their eyes and looking annoyed that people still use it.
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metaldiscussor666
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:27 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
What always annoys me about this issue is that people always feel the need to bring their personal feelings into it - "I don't hate homosexuals at all, I just like saying 'faggot!'" - as if their personal feelings and motivations affect the issue at all. It's the same for people who claim they aren't racist or homophobic, they just like racist/homophobic jokes because they offend people - newsflash: if you walk like a duck, talk like a duck, and act like a duck, you're a racist or a homophobe whether or not you personally feel that way on the inside. To use an extreme example, it'd be like some average citizen in Nazi Germany persecuting the Jews with everyone else but claiming they weren't anti-Semitic because they didn't actually hate the Jews, they just like words like "kike" and jokes about Jews make them laugh. Obviously homosexuals have it a lot better here than the Jews did in Nazi Germany, but people looooove to delude themselves that doing a homophobe's work doesn't make them a homophobe, just because of their feelies.

I can't wait to incorporate this into my next argument. That's an excellent point of view, dude!
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:09 pm 
 

People who say "faggot" are either male chauvinists or really scared of the fact that they want to taste a bell end .. and perhaps balls. The latter are the more dangerous type, sadly (the closeted .. balls aren't dangerous, fyi). Generally, I've heard it used in the pejorative by people who are misogynists. Their mind is consumed by a towering icon of what a man should be and how much that model should be valued. Ironically, they're worshiping the phallus and many of them like being psychologically dominated by strong male figures, but that's .. perhaps an observation best left unsaid to the unstable and violent.

In general, though, it could be more often misogyny than sheer homophobia, I feel. An odd point of view, but that's how it looks to me. Their hatred is mostly against "a man doing what's a woman's job" or doing whatever it is that makes them go from being the pure and noble man to being tainted by femininity which is exclusively FOR WOMEN .. NOT MEN. Their obsession with hard-edged gender roles and sexual dominance blends with their bigoted (high-probability-of-religious) social conditioning in an intractable way, and it takes a great deal of adjustment for them to find some other way of feeling good about themselves than by putting someone else down with an insult that's not even particularly meaningful and basically just means they came out of the idiot closet.


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OOoooo ~ You are so bus-wanker negative!!
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BasqueStorm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:46 pm 
 

iloveblackmetal wrote:
seriously whats the problem with homo/bi sexuality

Snowgrave wrote:
To answer your question as simply as possible: nothing.

Not really.
The problem is that it's used to attack people, you know?
Even if nobody should care who you fuck with.
P.S: And, yes, I HATE people who NEEDS to make people know about their sexuality.
P.S.2: Sorry didn't take the time to read all the awnsers.

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iloveblackmetal
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:55 pm 
 

BasqueStorm wrote:
iloveblackmetal wrote:
seriously whats the problem with homo/bi sexuality

Snowgrave wrote:
To answer your question as simply as possible: nothing.

Not really.
The problem is that it's used to attack people, you know?
Even if nobody should care who you fuck with.
P.S: And, yes, I HATE people who NEEDS to make people know about their sexuality.
P.S.2: Sorry didn't take the time to read all the awnsers.



Not all gay people are in youre face with it.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:03 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
People who say "faggot" are either male chauvinists or really scared of the fact that they want to taste a bell end .. and perhaps balls. The latter are the more dangerous type, sadly (the closeted .. balls aren't dangerous, fyi). Generally, I've heard it used in the pejorative by people who are misogynists. Their mind is consumed by a towering icon of what a man should be and how much that model should be valued. Ironically, they're worshiping the phallus and many of them like being psychologically dominated by strong male figures, but that's .. perhaps an observation best left unsaid to the unstable and violent.

In general, though, it could be more often misogyny than sheer homophobia, I feel. An odd point of view, but that's how it looks to me. Their hatred is mostly against "a man doing what's a woman's job" or doing whatever it is that makes them go from being the pure and noble man to being tainted by femininity which is exclusively FOR WOMEN .. NOT MEN. Their obsession with hard-edged gender roles and sexual dominance blends with their bigoted (high-probability-of-religious) social conditioning in an intractable way, and it takes a great deal of adjustment for them to find some other way of feeling good about themselves than by putting someone else down with an insult that's not even particularly meaningful and basically just means they came out of the idiot closet.

Misogyny is definitely a factor too. Masculine is seen as superior to feminine, and therefore a man who "renounces" his masculinity in favor of "inferior" femininity is a gender-traitor, or something. That's where the whole "homosexuality is a choice" thing comes in. If they're choosing to be gay, then you can feel better about condemning them. The basis of our society's intrinsic homophobia is complex.
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the_raytownian
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:07 pm 
 

iloveblackmetal wrote:
BasqueStorm wrote:
P.S: And, yes, I HATE people who NEEDS to make people know about their sexuality.
P.S.2: Sorry didn't take the time to read all the awnsers.



Not all gay people are in youre face with it.


Furthermore, not every "obviously gay" person is "acting gay on purpose" just to annoy you.

Care to clarify what constitutes "needing to show their gayness" in YOUR opinion?
In my experience, it seems to be that people get upset with gays daring to be "too fem/butch" IN PUBLIC (as if they are making a concsious decision here), or daring to show PDA.

Furthermore, I fail to see the problem with persecuted groups refusing to accept the notion that they are weeeeird and should feel ashamed about themselves. I see no problem with being a gay rights activist or self advocating with a rainbow bumper sticker or something.

Might as well be telling everyone here with a kutte the same thing for being walking billboards for the bands they like (as opposed to something that's actually socially relevant and, yes, even courageous).
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BasqueStorm
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
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Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:28 pm 
 

iloveblackmetal wrote:
Not all gay people are in youre face with it.

That's why I told... what I told.

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xThe__Wizard
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:59 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:40 pm 
 

Getting upset with people who are overly flamboyant with your sexuality goes both ways wether you are gay or straight. If someone comes off like an asshole then it is annoying. And yes people who are straight can be like that.
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Xlxlx
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5621
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:47 pm 
 

xThe__Wizard wrote:
Getting upset with people who are overly flamboyant with your sexuality goes both ways wether you are gay or straight. If someone comes off like an asshole then it is annoying. And yes people who are straight can be like that.

That must be what we call the typical super macho tuff guy, right?
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