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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:52 pm 
 

Quote:
I will say that Walter Block makes a pretty good case for child labour [...] You should give it a read.

.... :o
Spoiler: show
Image
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:05 pm 
 

Image

I didn't find the test particularly well designed.

I don't think how you feel about certain issues is what matters most, it's what you would actually do about it that reveals who you are.

That's why I take these tests with a huge grain of salt.
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orionmetalhead
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:22 pm 
 

TheOldOne wrote:
Sooo you're a small government conservative?

Okay, just gonna hop in here for the "discuss" part of the title: Rothbard was batshit fucking crazy, racist and ignorant. He was big on pseudo-psychology and he even supported the use of child labor, for chrissakes. Plus he was really keen on the idea of police being able to carry out summary, brutal punishments without due process or trial. If you take him seriously, and admire him enough that it moulds your political views, then I can't help but see you as some kind of sociopath. Soz, bro.

I don't really mind if you think I'm crazy, but I will say that Walter Block makes a pretty good case for child labour and many other things attacked by modern society in his book "Defending the Undefendable". You should give it a read.


I'll look into Rothbard and Block. Sounds like an interesting read.
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2253
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:23 pm 
 

Economic Left/Right: 6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.76

Pretty much where I was about a year ago on a test similar to this. Old habits die hard.
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darkeningday
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 2254
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:32 pm 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
TheOldOne wrote:
Sooo you're a small government conservative?

Okay, just gonna hop in here for the "discuss" part of the title: Rothbard was batshit fucking crazy, racist and ignorant. He was big on pseudo-psychology and he even supported the use of child labor, for chrissakes. Plus he was really keen on the idea of police being able to carry out summary, brutal punishments without due process or trial. If you take him seriously, and admire him enough that it moulds your political views, then I can't help but see you as some kind of sociopath. Soz, bro.

I don't really mind if you think I'm crazy, but I will say that Walter Block makes a pretty good case for child labour and many other things attacked by modern society in his book "Defending the Undefendable". You should give it a read.


I'll look into Rothbard and Block. Sounds like an interesting read.

I mean, Defending the Undefendable is interesting in the same way Leni Riefenstahl's filmography is interesting. A cultural artifact of a broken way of perceiving the world. Nothing more.
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orionmetalhead
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:05 pm 
 

Darkening, it may seem that way to you, but someone with a different perspective may find it the opposite. Doesn't mean either side is correct.

I'll probably find many issues with both though.
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Hircine
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:13 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:37 pm 
 

Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82

Spoiler: show
Image


My authoritarian scale seems to shift a bit every time I take this test but w/e, it was -7.9 when I last took this in June. Maybe winter makes me slightly more conservative or something. But basically I abide by the idea that what you do to yourself or those that consent to it is no business of the state no matter what, so legal drugs, marriage equality, separation of church and state et al.

Economically, I don't really think it's a clear cut "private good; nationalised bad", but generally I'm pro-free market. There are some questions on there that imply things like the "it's bad that some people just get rich then act like knobs" one. Yes, I think it's bad, but there's the implication that the state should do something about it I don't necessarily with, which could skew the result a bit.
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oogboog
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:41 pm 
 

Image
Guess I'll just post mine. I think I'd be a bit more to the left if I understood some of the terms in the test.
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Riffs
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:55 pm 
 

There really is a shit ton of people resting in the green square like me. I feel terribly unoriginal! :scratch:
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Hircine
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:04 pm 
 

I actually think most of the questions are set in ways that push you over there...
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FearTheNome
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:41 am
Posts: 372
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:06 pm 
 

Got leftist/libertarian like everyone else.

The test struck me as pretty skewed, a lot of the "conservative" answers were things that even many conservatives I know won't explicitly agree to, and likewise many of the "liberal" answers were things that most people will say when explicitly asked, despite their political positions (even if their politics undermine those ideas)

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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2145
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:20 pm 
 

Yeah, some statements are really odd:
A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system. (Agree/Disagree)

...So is this wanting to know if I think it would be true (which is obvious), or if I agree with having a one-party state? (no thanks)
How do you answer that?

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:29 pm 
 

The way I thought it out in my head is I disagree because even in a one party system there will still be disagreements between individual people on how to handle something.
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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2145
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:03 pm 
 

So you've interpreted it as an IQ type question rather than a political opinion one. Either way, it's a double (even triple) barreled question and it definitely shouldn't belong in the test, I think.

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sortalikeadream
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:34 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:54 pm 
 

I disagreed with that question because I don't consider avoiding arguments to be inherently advantageous. A one party system could pass a law with no opposition, and it could be a really stupid law.

But yea, poor questions abound in this quiz.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:43 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
Yeah, some statements are really odd:
A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system. (Agree/Disagree)

...So is this wanting to know if I think it would be true (which is obvious), or if I agree with having a one-party state? (no thanks)
How do you answer that?

The question is whether you consider that to be advantageous for the governed.
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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
Posts: 1547
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:03 am 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
Yeah, some statements are really odd:
A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system. (Agree/Disagree)

...So is this wanting to know if I think it would be true (which is obvious), or if I agree with having a one-party state? (no thanks)
How do you answer that?


Depends on how you define "progress", although I agree that the wording is pretty odd. I voted disagree on that one.

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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2145
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:41 am 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
The question is whether you consider that to be advantageous for the governed.

Yes you're right, but only because it says "advantage of a one-party state" instead of "advantage for a one-party state". It's so easy to miss that small detail.

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iAm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:47 am 
 

Like a lot of people here I've gotten Libertarian- leaning towards the upper right. I'm as Libertarian as they come but to a certain degree I agree with Hircine. The questions are too few and too vague.
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Calusari
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:36 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:39 am 
 

Hmmm, interesting. This test made the rounds among my friends a while ago, though I can't find the result I got then. I remember being surprised at some of the questions, such as the one about abstract art and, well, this one: When you are troubled, it's better not to think about it, but to keep busy with more cheerful things... I suppose one could argue that they speak to general tendencies that might influence one's political position, but, honestly, I'm not quite sure that there aren't more relevant questions they could be asking.

Anyway, here's my result

I was a little surprised at my result; I generally don't consider myself a libertarian to such a significant extent - though it depends on what the issue is; I'm in favour of government regulation of the market, public healthcare and welfare (the need for a strong welfare system is one of my pet things) supported through taxation, which would put me on the authoritarian side of the map on some political scales. I can see which questions influenced my positioning there, though. That other test that was being mentioned made me think, though, that often those who, in the words of that other site, "respect... state authority" are lumped together with people who, like me, think that state authority is necessary (at the moment, at least) but strongly advocate carefully questioning every policy and don't take that authority to have some kind of higher moral legitimacy (beyond the practical needs of people); the label of authoritarianism is often applied to both schools of thought, which I don't think accurately represents the range of opinions out there. You can be in favour of state regulation without being authoritarian in that traditional sense of respect for the state (by respect I mean something like a sentimental moral fear, not Kantian respect for the law, which is something different). Anyway. Hmmm. Speculation.

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Atrocious_Mutilation
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:57 am 
 

Calusari wrote:
Hmmm, interesting. This test made the rounds among my friends a while ago, though I can't find the result I got then. I remember being surprised at some of the questions, such as the one about abstract art and, well, this one: When you are troubled, it's better not to think about it, but to keep busy with more cheerful things... I suppose one could argue that they speak to general tendencies that might influence one's political position, but, honestly, I'm not quite sure that there aren't more relevant questions they could be asking.

Anyway, here's my result

I was a little surprised at my result; I generally don't consider myself a libertarian to such a significant extent - though it depends on what the issue is; I'm in favour of government regulation of the market, public healthcare and welfare (the need for a strong welfare system is one of my pet things) supported through taxation, which would put me on the authoritarian side of the map on some political scales. I can see which questions influenced my positioning there, though. That other test that was being mentioned made me think, though, that often those who, in the words of that other site, "respect... state authority" are lumped together with people who, like me, think that state authority is necessary (at the moment, at least) but strongly advocate carefully questioning every policy and don't take that authority to have some kind of higher moral legitimacy (beyond the practical needs of people); the label of authoritarianism is often applied to both schools of thought, which I don't think accurately represents the range of opinions out there. You can be in favour of state regulation without being authoritarian in that traditional sense of respect for the state (by respect I mean something like a sentimental moral fear, not Kantian respect for the law, which is something different). Anyway. Hmmm. Speculation.


I believe the term 'libertarian' used in contrast to authoritarian is to take into account how much an individual is willing to grant freedom and civil rights to its citizens and not the trash political ideology that bears the same name. Those types would fall under the right-libertarian quadrant of this test.

The questions are also fairly strange and can throw off the compass. The question about respecting authority generally depends on circumstance, where there should be at least some respect for authority provided that it does not abuse its power, and that citizens should be equipped with the ability to analyse governmental policies to determine whether it is for their own good. Only when a policy infringes on their rights to live fulfilling lives should there be questioning and backlash. And the question about abstract art is most likely used to catch the right wingers who believe that abstract artists are stealing their hard-earned tax dollars to paint shapes. You know how they whine.

Anyway, looking at your compass I'm fairly surprised. Not at your results compared to your views, but compared to mine. And I thought I was extremely left-libertarian.

EDIT: Thought a repost might save some time changing pages.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:04 am 
 

So many fucking hippys on MA... :lol:
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Calusari
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:20 am 
 

Haha, yeah; I was a bit surprised to find myself all the way over at -9.50 to the left - ah, well.

Atrocious_Mutilation wrote:
I believe the term 'libertarian' used in contrast to authoritarian is to take into account how much an individual is willing to grant freedom and civil rights to its citizens and not the trash political ideology that bears the same name. Those types would fall under the right-libertarian quadrant of this test.

That's what I mean, in a way.

The way the libertarian/authoritarian division is generally discussed runs together two different divisions (if dividing views like this is at all valid): on the one hand, there's the spectrum that runs from people who affirm the need for democratic civil/civic rights to those those who advocate fascist state control of citizens' lives; on the other hand, there's the spectrum that runs from those who affirm that some state intervention is necessary/beneficial (via market regulation, taxation, public services etc) to those who claim that state intervention is not beneficial/necessary and should be minimised or abolished altogether.

When I hear the term 'libertarian', my mind immediately goes to the latter spectrum, and associates the word with people who believe something along the minimal state intervention line; this incorrectly bundles together fascists with people who are in favour of beneficial state intervention (again, via things like market regulation, taxation, public services).

Of course, this then gives ammunition to some (I'm not saying that all or even most do this) libertarian commentators (in the minimal state intervention, Nozick kinda sense) by making it easier to argue that any state intervention - from healthcare to welfare to whatever - pushes society further toward fascism, that anyone who's for any kind of state intervention is not that far from being a fascist, and that they themselves represent the position of ultimate freedom for the individual. It lets them have a monopoly on the notion of freedom.

When I first came across the libertarian/authoritarian distinction, I grudgingly resigned myself to identifying with the latter, as I quite strongly disagreed with the minimal state intervention/Nozick model; these days, I refuse to do that - I reject the notion that fascism is basically a radicalisation of views that I hold, that taking welfare or public healthcare etc. further would inevitably result in fascism - but I wouldn't want to call myself a libertarian because I want to distance myself from the minimal state intervention/Nozickian model. And saying that "I'm a libertarian when it comes to civil/civic rights, but an authoritarian when it comes to taxation/welfare/healthcare" seems too cumbersome and confusing. And it'd leave the notion of individual freedom and rights to be associated with the term 'libertarian', which is something that bothers me; libertarianism advocates a particular kind of freedom, it isn't the only view of freedom or individual rights.

Egads. The more I think about this, the more it all collapses into semantics.

Atrocious_Mutilation wrote:
The questions are also fairly strange and can throw off the compass. The question about respecting authority generally depends on circumstance, where there should be at least some respect for authority provided that it does not abuse its power, and that citizens should be equipped with the ability to analyse governmental policies to determine whether it is for their own good.

I'd definitely agree. I see the point of a quiz like this, but some of the questions do need more explanation; it might mean the test loses some of that 'gut reaction honesty', but some of the terms used are just too ambiguous. It'd be interesting to see how questions are weighed in relation to each other, too

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:22 am 
 

Excellent point, Calusari. All the major modern political philosophies describe themselves in the language of freedom in contradistinction to the others.

Libertarians say socialists, liberals and fascists are fundamentally the same because they advocate use of state power to enforce the will of the majority over a minority.

Socialists say liberals, libertarians and fascists are fundamentally the same because they advocate use of state power to enforce the will of a minority over the majority.

Liberals say socialists, libertarians and fascists are fundamentally the same because they are not liberals.

Fascists say socialists, libertarians and liberals are fundamentally the same because they are theoretically founded on a view of humanity as rational rather than tribal.

It ultimately comes down to divergent views on the best way to solve the inherent problems of mass society while enjoying practical support of the population. Saying that any one of these camps is absolutely the advocate of freedom against un-freedom in opposition to the others is foolhardy, ignorant, and likely disingenuous.
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godsonsafari
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Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:40 pm 
 

If there's a "problem" with the test, it is that it seemingly assumes statism is acceptable by anyone taking it. In scoring on the test I basically ended up like a lot of people here. If we were looking at pitch position, it would be down and away. But it is inflexible, which any multiple choice questionaire would be. The one-party question is a great one; theoretically it would allow law to pass more quickly, but in reality, one party governments generally end up with massive corruption and mountains of red tape and bureaucracy that prevent many substantive things from occurring. Obviously a one party representative democracy would also likely be restrictive and not at all representative of the whole of any nation, so there's that as well. But anyways.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:47 pm 
 

Only humorists use the term "statism".
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matras
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 875
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:51 am 
 

Economic Left/Right: -8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.73

Nothing surprising here...

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Tantalus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:18 pm
Posts: 1100
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:15 am 
 

Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

I am a total fucking pussy.
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Tempered_Steel
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:30 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:07 pm 
 

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03

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mjollnir
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:46 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Only humorists use the term "statism".


Care to elaborate?

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:25 am 
 

I find the term "statist" tends to get used in much the same way as "Darwinist" does: to imply that someone has a pseudo-religious devotion to something you disagree with.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:04 am 
 

Some questions are quite misleading and, well, some pointless if you don't live in the US.

Weird the mention of General Pinochet, I'm 100% positive that the international community has a completely wrong vision about him, as well as I think I might have a wrong idea about Obama or others.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:54 pm 
 

TheOldOne wrote:
Walter Block makes a pretty good case for child labour and many other things attacked by modern society in his book "Defending the Undefendable". You should give it a read.


Depends on what the kids are getting paid. Under $20/hr doesn't seem worth the sacrifice of childhood.
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Against Such Things
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:38 pm 
 

If someone over 13 legitimately wants to work, I don't see why anyone should stop them. If an employers wants to hire them and treats them as well as a normal employee, then good for them.
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MrMcThrasher II
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:50 am 
 

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printab ... &soc=-1.33

Basically I don't go anywhere major. I'm kinda surprised I went slightly more Libertarian, but oh well.
Anybody else got one that's REALLY near the center?
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BlasphemousGoatSodomy
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:30 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:05 pm 
 

Spoiler: show
Image


There should be a "neutral" option to most of these questions, as why somebody feels that way or what their proposed solution would be is more important than whether they think something is good or bad.

Or, if for example, someone thinks sex outside marriage is wrong, but wouldn't force that view upon anyone else, where's the option to reflect that? This test is trying to present itself as moving past typical left/right paradigms, but it really doesn't.

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BasqueStorm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:54 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Ok, here we go!

Quote:
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.23


Image

Kveldulfr wrote:
Some questions are quite misleading and, well, some pointless if you don't live in the US.

I agree. The test should be WAY more elaborated.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4761
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:07 pm 
 

Well then, better keep taking this inferior test and posting results you don't feel are accurate enough instead of taking one of the thousands of other more expansive tests and posting those results instead...
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mindshadow
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:45 pm 
 

How about this test? http://www.politicaltest.net/

"You are a Leftist. 4 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 79 percent are more extremist than you"

Yet I don't consider myself a leftist, don't want to be to the left or right.
I strive to find a balance between the two extremes.
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Rainbow Demon
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 469
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:47 pm 
 

Economic Left/Right: -0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69

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Results from the other test.

You are a neoliberal Democrat. 6 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 73 percent are more extremist than you.

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_________________
simonitro wrote:
Depressing Black Metal goes on and on and on with one riff and some wanker screaming and hating the world because his mom didn't buy him a box of Snickers.


Last edited by Rainbow Demon on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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