Who do you folks think was the greatest instrumentalist of all time? The musician who mastered their instrument better then everyone else? Basically the most skilled/talented instrumentalist of all time.

And just because you like their music or their riffs doesn't mean they're the most talented musician ever, there are plenty of people who have written good music but were average musicians (Nirvana & Venom). So keep that in mind.

On that note, I'd have to say John Coltrane.
I've never heard anyone else play something like his 'sheets of sound' that fast ('Giant Steps'), yet he could play amazing solos that were flawless and breathtaking ('My Favorite Things'). And he was always practicing and pushing himself as a musicians ('Sun Ship'). And he could read sheet music and improvise over chord changes, which already makes him more talented then 95% of all the musicians out there. Check out the albums 'Giant Steps', 'Om' and 'A Love Supreme' if you wanna hear what I mean.

.....Or maybe Art Tatum.....I've never heard play stuff like that while barely moving their fingers. I don't know yet I'm just getting into his stuff.

Any thoughts or opinions?

Hard question to answer, especially since we can never really know the answer. Trouncing through the bowels of YouTube will expose you to hundreds of videos of children virtuosos who are more technically competent and more thoroughly educated on their instrument than a lot of label-signed musicians. And I don't listen to a lot of 'virtuoso' music, so I'm really in the dark on this one.

Of all the music that I listen to, however, I'd have to start with a few of the bad lads from the classical camps: Felix Mendelssohn was composing astounding concerti before he was a teenager. Alexander Scriabin 's command over the piano was second to none, in my book, in all respects: technicality, theory knowledge, taste, coloration, composition, etc. He was absolutely superb, and I've heard from a few sources that his piano literature is some of the hardest to master for any pianist. Rachmaninoff has been well-noted to be without peer in his times, and his left hand in particular is pretty incredible. He gave a Scriabin recital when Scriabin died, to tie it all together.

Of course, I've gotta mention Mozart. He was a prodigy, simple as that. As far as pure composition goes, I think Beethoven's talent is immense, beyond the comprehension of most. Myself included. The 9th symphony alone is on the supreme musical achievements of history. And it was composed by a fucking deaf man. Let's not forget his last two quartets, either. Sublime.

The jazz I listen to sure does have a fair share of virtuosos, as well. I won't dispute the talent of John Coltrane. Most jazz musicians are downright frightening in their technical ability. I love jazz because it's a style of music that's not for wannabes and fakers - you've gotta know your shit, and you've gotta know how to fucking play to be worth your salt. None of this learn some power chords and neo-classical licks and start a band bullshit. Bill Evans was a classical pianist who made a career out of jazz, and he could turn any tune on it's head, and it would still come out a gem. Also, his solos were unstoppable. So, yeah, Bill Evans.

I'd also give a nod to Frank Zappa. He was a monster guitarist, yes, but he was also a master composer and arranger. He saw the main elements of all types of styles, and turned them into wonderful musical cartoons. He heard it all in his head, and I heard by the end of his life he could write full songs with out any instruments around him. I can't imagine that.

Also, just because you've gotta give credit where credit is due - Steve Vai is really fucking good.

My gut tells me to write "Mark Knopfler!!!!" in the reply box but I don't have anything to back it up with.

From what I've heard of his and his contemparies' material, Franz Liszt has to be one of the best pianists there has ever been. I'm not the biggest classical buff in the world though, so this could be rubbish.

You're very correct in saying that one's technical ability is often different from their ability to express themselves through music. My list of favorite guitarists probably wouldn't be too much different from most others here on the forums. Guys like Tosin Abasi, Buckethead, Guthrie Govan, Allan Holdsworth etc. All fantastic guitarists, and that's not to say that I don't spin a lot of their material, but there are also significantly more primitive bands who's stuff I like to an even higher degree like QOTSA, Neil Young, Todd Rundgren, Celtic Frost, Alice in Chains, or whatever. Also another guitarist who blows my mind every time, although I don't frequently listen to his music, is Joe Pass. I'm still learning lots of chord theory from his music.

Oh, and finally, I have to give a shout-out to these guys, the Kruger Brothers. True virtuoso musicians of the acoustic relatives of the guitar. The Banjo-Guitar-Bass act puts together some really beautiful songs, that fall anywhere from a mean southern stomp-out, to ambient folk tunes, to nearly neo-classical compositions. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything resembling the latter on youtube, but it's clear that they have extreme control over their instruments, and to be able to play that fluidly while also singing in harmonization is extremely impressive.

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, hands down. He started composing and performing music before he was 5 years old. In his short life, he composed over 600 works, many of them quite famous. You can buy the entire Mozart works, Phillips Classics Records has it... On 180 CDs. I still say Chuck Schuldiner is my favorite musician ever and a master of metal guitar, but Mozart's sheer talent was beyond words.

Every time Mozart is mentioned, I can't help but thinking of Stansfield from The Professional.

I consider Imogen Heap to be just about the most talented person alive today. I know there are probably people more talented than her, but damn, that woman is amazing. Just look up some videos of her in the studio or coming up with songs; it's amazing to see. Not to mention her live show. @_@

Gonna have to go with Shawn Lane. He wrote pieces on his guitar that are literally IMPOSSIBLE for anyone else to play. Also, while on the subject, Buckethead, for figuring out how to play a song that Shawn Lane deliberately wrote to be unplayable even by him. Just... damn.

I don't think there is really one master above all, but one musician worth mentioning is John Fahey. His career is extensive and I have yet to explore all of it, but his style on what I'm familiar with is unique. He plays an acoustic guitar as a solo instrument, a departure from a lot of folk music, and by separating something traditionally used for accompanying vocals/lyrics/storytelling, he forced himself to tell the story with the instrument. An interesting way of mastering the instrument, making it able to stand up purely as a solo instrument in a style where it traditionally was not.

Michael Hedges also mastered his instrument in a different way, he found ways to make it do things that it wasn't normally used for. Not a sufficient explanation, but I haven't analyzed his work much, I'm sure someone else can offer a better explanation.

Frank Zappa for me.

I'd like to see a video of this if there is one out there...

This. I've never even heard of that.

Jeff Loomis from Nevermore, amazing guitarist and songwriter

I would personally rank Jerry Cantrell far above Tosin Abasi in terms of guitar playing. Sure, Tosin can play all that crazy time signature crap, but I like a little meat with my guitar playing, and the man just doesn't do it for me. Cantrell's phrasing is incredible. And Buckethead, fuck, don't even get me started in on that guy. Can't stand him. As far as guitar players go, Stevie Ray Vaughn really was incredible, his grasp of the blues was nigh incomprehensible. Jesse Cook plays a seriously mean flamenco guitar. Per Nilsson of Scar Symmetry is possibly one of the best guitarists around today. I don't care if you don't like their music, that man can play, and not just the sweeping, technical shit, he can rock the shit out of a blues solo, too. I'd also like to give the nod to Lord Tim of Dungeon and Lord fame. His playing is amazing, and he's got some seriously incredible pipes on him.

As far as composer's go, I'd have to give the nod to Murray Gold of Doctor Who fame. He composes some absolute stunning stuff. His theme for the 11th doctor? Nothing short of breathtaking. And his This Is Gallifrey: Our Childhood, Our Home cannot be beaten.

Tosin Abasi is one of the worst guitarists. He has all the technical chops that he could need, yet he manages to put music together as soullessly as possible where absolutely nothing is catchy or memorable. Music isn't about what you can do, it's about what you do with it, and the guitar olympics get old really quickly.

Exactly how I think. Cheers. Music isn't a sport.

Can't find any video of Buckethead playing it, but here's the song as spliced together by Shawn Lane (done by recording one note at a time and stitching them together impossibly fast): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQkAP-FyT48

Found this from an interview with Shawn Lane where he talks about it:

...90% of The Julliard School of Music graduates?

I would add most anyone who performed in Carnegie Hall, but then I remember one Florence Foster Jenkins...

I'll give it to you for Per Nilsson mention, but really It's liek comparing aples to oranges. Like I said, I like Jerry Cantrel and he's one of the most conscious guitar players out there, but Buckethead and Tosin can still compose lots of great music with the gifted technical ability they have too.

I don't think Per Nilsson is exceptional, he's a talented guitarist, but it's pretty much limited to some interesting solos and riffs. Scar Symmetry's song structures and writing are pretty boring and nobody in the band does a whole lot beyond sticking some melodic parts that fit in a standard song structure.

Not virtuoso level or anything, but still pretty good. And yeah some of their older stuff is kinda boring and pop-y. Their last album is the only one I can say I ever listened to regularly, but that thing slayed.

I would disagree, as a guitarist myself. I've never found their style boring in the slightest, I can understand why someone might, but to say he's not an exceptional guitarist is honestly mad. I don't know if you've heard any of his stuff with Kaipa, or seen any of his improv videos, but he's honestly incredible. He's so incredibly fluid in an almost SRV kind of way. And the man can do it all. Fast, slow, you name it. His phrasing is amazing, and the way he travels up and down the fretboard at all sorts of speeds is mindblowing. I will admit, his leads are more appealing than his riffing style, but his lead playing is so god damn good that I couldn't care less.

As far as Tosin Abasi goes, his breed are a dime a dozen nowadays. I can't stand his stuff with Animals As Leaders. I honestly can't. I vehemently hate every inch of that stuff. There's no MEAT to his playing. To say he's on the same level as an incredible songwriter/guitarist like Jerry Cantrell, or even Per Nilsson, just isn't right. I mean, sure, he spent hours in his mom's basement honing his mastery of the time signature. Big fucking deal. I won't deny that the guy can play guitar, that's fairly obvious, but to say he's anything special is just going over the edge.

I came here to post this video of Shawns relationship with Buckethead and his influence on him, but it seems someone has posted a text version of the same thing that's pretty close. Anyways, I then saw you're comment and had to whole-heartedly disagree. If there's anyone who can't stand modern bands and the prog trend it's me, but Tosin's musicianship, technical ability and compositions are clearly exceptional. If you mean that his music isn't meaty in a sense that he isn't too focused on riffs and that he borrows a lot of musical cliche's from other people, I'll give you that, but even if some of his music is robotic, he has a deep understanding of theory and how to use virtually every harmonic texture combination that exists.

If he had such a deep understanding of all of this, then he should be able to actually make a decent song. He's boring, and even if he has a lot of knowledge, I'd still go as far to say he's bad. Kinda like Michael Angelo Batio, except Batio is actually fun to watch.

Doesn't mean he's a good songwriter, and that was my point. His compositions aren't exactly "exceptional", no. He completely IGNORES riffs, and I can't for the life of me remember any distinctive quality to his solos. It's fine if you think that way, but it is no way "clear" that he's one of the greatest guitarists out there. There a lot of people with a deep understanding of theory, in particular people who play the piano. That doesn't mean they're mind-blowingly fantastic. This style of play doesn't leave much room for stageplay, either, not that I can say that's an actual gripe, since I would never see them live, and sometimes you just can't be very active on stage when you're touching your guitar like it's your rock hard cock.

See, that last part is where you lose me. Advanced theory can sound cool, but if that's all you're aiming for (which I feel is a case with a lot of these 'virtuoso' guitarists) it can sound, as you put it, robotic. I personally feel that art's purpose is to move an individual, and soulless wanderings on the fretboard, no matter how technically skilled, just doesn't cut it for me.

Instead of going with an obvious choice (Mozart, Beethoven), I'm going to say Dan Barret (the man behind Giles Corey). Giles Corey is such a refreshing reminder of what music should do in its simplest form, it's going to make a big impact on the way I write music. To me, the way so many nuanced feelings can work together so cohesively and powerfully is the mark of a great artist. He may not be as amazing as others that have already been mentioned, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks...
If you're not familiar with his music, here's his Bandcamp:
http://gilescorey.bandcamp.com/album/giles-corey

I wont argue with you that there is a lot of simple music out there that's really great. I'm always discussed in this thread that I love very many musicians of different kinds, but they can't be paired with eachother. Buckethead and Paul Gilbert are and entirely different listening experience from Celtic Frost and Alice In Chains. And if theory sounds robotic then you can't explain all of the great jazz and classical music that's been written so intensely with theory. Now I like a lot of shred and I like a lot of slow brooding music. But there is also a middle ground that's leaving so much to be discovered and artists will cover that area for years to come. A lot of people forget that he also fluently plays the acoustic guitar, and he's done brilliant stuff with that. Are you aware of his cover of a Radiohead song? I think it was Paranoid Android or something.

Oh, I don't think all theory sounds robotic. I absolutely love classical music, and Jazz holds my favorite soloists regardless of genre. Just the way it it utilized by some contemporary rock/metal bands I dislike. I also didn't know that about Tosin, but I was just talking about Animals as Leaders. But art is completely subjective, so I'll just have to politely disagree.

Yeah I don't think there are many people who can play the guitar the way Stanley Jodan plays guitar.

I hold his talent in the highest regard.

About the 'musica docta' composers, it's hard to tell how many of them are not talented. My personal favs are Rachmaninoff, Paganini (a beast with the violin), Liszt, Chopin and Beethoven.

In metal, there are tons of them but I'll throw one that it's not mentioned often: Asgeir Mickelson. Sure, the guy has a name for his excellent and tasteful drumming, but he also plays guitar and fretless bass (in a way that put to shame most of metal bassists). He wrote and recorded the whole bass and drums for Borknagar's 'Epic', also played all instruments for 1 song.

About another drummers, there are too many to mention in different styles, but the best I've heard and see are: Jojo Mayer (the best drum&bass drummer hands down), Terry Bozzio (simply inhuman in terms of disassociation and overall skill), Dennis Chambers (The master of groove, also plays fairly complex stuff), Steve Smith, Neir Peart, Steward Copeland... the list is fairly long.

Sverd from Arcturus is a guy who has the technical chops and the songwriting skills in the highest possible levels. Not only Arcturus is a true statement of that, but also he did a great job for Covenant's Nexus Polaris and Satyricon's The Shadowthrone - effectively showing his versatility (and that demented piano solo in Ulver's Capitel III is nuts).

From the guitarists mentioned, Allan Holdsworth is simply in another level. I would add in terms of pure brilliance to Frank Gambale, Paul Gilbert, Steve Vai and David Gilmour. The first 3 are simply too advanced guitarist that know how to rip the guitar with style, without losing the feeling, but Gilmour? not just he's an extraordinaire composer, but his soloing is phenomenal in emotional terms.

Since I'm primarily a bassist, I left this for the end and I'll mention just a few:

-Jaco Pastorius. I'm not a huge fan of his work, but fretless bassists own their existence to this guy. Not only for being the first defretting the bass, but also for the huge display of possibilities he showed in his short career.

-Gary Willis: This guy does some serious damage. His technique, phrasing, soloing are simply flawless. He can play everything and has the best fretless tone ever - so much that many of the best bassists use HIS signature bass to gig and record. Also, this guy can groove like no other without using slap techniques, he even manage to sound more 'funky' that most of funk bass players.

-Steve Bailey: He's simply in another dimension. He took the bass to unknown and endless possibilities, just like Jaco did. His artificial harmonic approach is godlike not just in terms of technique and sound, but also effectively expanding the bass range in an incredible way.

-Victor Wooten: Just like Steve, he took all teachings from the early masters like Marcus Miller and Stanley Clarke to take the bass into another level. He has the groove, but also developed some techniques that marks another generation of bassplaying.