Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic  
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:16 pm 
 

Varg Vikernes and his wife Marie Cachet released a trailer for their new film "ForeBears", which will be available on DVD via Amazon.com in March 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37wW5rR8624

Summary of the 10+ minute trailer - Lots of video of rock formations in caves, a bit of Varg driving around in a camouflaged 4x4, more video of rock formations in caves, and Varg partaking in some "ancient bear cult" ritual with his wife and kids, wearing animal hides/furs and feathers. The film is advertised as offering a "unique" view on pre-history and unreleased Burzum music, which seems to be skaldic folk music with no black metal except some raspy vocals that are pretty far removed from Burzum's black metal style.

Rather than suggesting a conclusion about what these two are up to, I think you can quickly draw that conclusion on your own with a glance at Varg's piece on "War in Europe" and Marie's writing about whatever this is called.

Top
 Profile  
OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9609
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:34 pm 
 

Xlxlx and I gave our brief thoughts on that. Just two people using their status to get their beliefs out there, as nutty as it is. The wife's page is quite a spin if you've never seen that type of analysis before.

I feel bad for the kids having to be involved in something this... strange. Olden rituals and culture are already strange to me to begin with, but the parents' angle and views make it less appealing.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Yesterday was the birthday of school pal and I met the chick of my sigh (I've talked about here before, the she-wolf I use to be inlove with)... Maaan she was using a mini-skirt too damn insane... Dude you could saw her entire soul every time she sit...

Top
 Profile  
vengefulgoat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
Posts: 977
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:39 pm 
 

I don't give a fuck about his conspiracy theories, but new music of his is always welcome, no matter if it's metal or not.

Top
 Profile  
Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5250
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:40 pm 
 

Exactly what Ozzy said, though I do guess that this could be quite interesting if the two people involved weren't bigots, nutjobs and extremely biased. As it is though? This won't amount to more than vulgar propaganda for their awful beliefs.
_________________
Under_Starmere wrote:
THESE GILLS BREATHE HATERADE

KolmeNoitaa wrote:
(...) microwaves are your best friends. You'll learn to cook anything and everything by nuking it.

Top
 Profile  
Metallumz
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:02 pm
Posts: 144
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:33 pm 
 

Personally I find the moder celebrity/x-factor/reality TV worship to be more damaging than anything Vikernes portrays, be it for the cameras or using his persona to exhude free 'advertising' the same way the early black metal bands did with the church burning and satanism stuff (though none of them actually practised it.)

The guy is just proud of his ancestory and perhaps a little right-wing at times but that's what happens to a guy incarcerated for many years in isolation and outside of todays 'PC Correct' world. Isolation, solitude, and misanthropy are what makes or breaks a persons character.

Top
 Profile  
Against Such Things
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:16 pm
Posts: 450
Location: Southern Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:11 pm 
 

I think this sounds interesting. I usually find that the "crazy" people in the world tend to be either enlightening and/or humorous.

On a side note, I'm genuinely shocked that Varg was both interested in marriage and found a woman itneresting in him.
_________________
Wilytank wrote:
I once knew a guy that stole another guy's virginity and sold it on the black market for some FUCKIN' WEED.

Top
 Profile  
Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2249
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:16 pm 
 

Looks interesting. This is, at least, WAY more interesting than black metallers camping in the forest for no reason, spitting fire or trying to portay their connection with Satan/Pan/Whatever, making them 'better' than the rest.

I find pretty interesting Varg's views on ancient scandinavia and mythology, so I guess I'll watch it.
_________________
Forestfather in Facebook- Some sort of black metal.
Get Forestfather's new album 'Hereafter' here!
Kveldulf's various stuff in Soundcloud
Vahşet in ReverbNation - Death metal

Top
 Profile  
raumr
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:21 pm 
 

I couldn't help but smile when Varg was looking towards the Stave Church. I've been to Bergen once, and I think it was Fantoft.

I'm glad Marie Cachet seems much more willing to communicate with her viewers/readers than Varg is. In the two videos that has been uploaded to her channel, she eagerly responds to most questions. True, she apparently holds many of the same views as her husband, but the focus seems to be about European ancestry, Neanderthals and the ancient Bear Cults.

Oh well, new Burzum music is always appreciated, I guess.

PS: Regarding them using their children; I don't think it'll matter. The boy is using a mask, and we never see the faces of the others. Besides, this it not exactly a high-budget production.

Top
 Profile  
raumr
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:24 pm 
 

Against Such Things wrote:
On a side note, I'm genuinely shocked that Varg was both interested in marriage and found a woman itneresting in him.


Even Anders Behring Breivik got love letters. I'm not comparing him and Vikernes, but your "shock" is silly.

Top
 Profile  
Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:53 pm 
 

Against Such Things wrote:
On a side note, I'm genuinely shocked that Varg was both interested in marriage and found a woman itneresting in him.


If the ancient ritual of marriage is good enough for his glorious ancestors, it's good enough for him.
_________________
LegendMaker on pointless genre dissection wrote:
Will you in turn help me classify the shemale/ladyboy, tranny/ladyboy, ladyboy-shemale/tranny, and tranny-ladyboy/shemale sub-folders of my shemale/ladyboy/tranny collection?

Top
 Profile  
LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1583
Location: France
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:04 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
vulgar propaganda for their awful beliefs.

Yop, my thoughts exactly. That the guy rants on and on about things like "the sinister Jews" or brag about how cool and natural assassinating his former bandmate was in articles and such, we're used to. His wife, unsurprisingly, seems to be of the school of thought that thinks proving a point consists in throwing complex, seemingly unrelated graphs, broken English and gross bullshit at the reader until they're too mindfucked to notice stuff like "fuck Darwin, you know, there's no way my ancestors were black"....

What's new is mixing it with his actual music, though. Not the wisest move, considering how many fans of his music despise the man and his beliefs.
_________________
Exigence wrote:
the subject matter

Top
 Profile  
lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:17 pm 
 

Whatever stops him from making music.

His kids should get taken away.

Top
 Profile  
Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5250
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:18 pm 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
Whatever stops him from making music.

You speak as if you were forced to listen to his stuff.
_________________
Under_Starmere wrote:
THESE GILLS BREATHE HATERADE

KolmeNoitaa wrote:
(...) microwaves are your best friends. You'll learn to cook anything and everything by nuking it.

Top
 Profile  
Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 8478
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:28 pm 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
Whatever stops him from making music.

His kids should get taken away.

Let's stay on subject, alright? I'm sure his children are well and a metal forum is not a place do discuss this.
_________________
Metantoine's Magickal Realm
Last.fm
Halberd (doom/death)

Top
 Profile  
Errebuss
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:07 pm
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 pm 
 

The trailer didn't get me very excited. Just a bunch of shots of cave formations, really. And if it is anything like his writings, I'm sure we'll be in for an hour and half of them praising the great Neanderthal, the superior European human.

Slightly off topic, but it'd be more interesting if Wolves in the Throne Room did a documentary. Embracing things like farming and simple living is a more realistic and respectable way to get back to our roots than dudes driving their cars into the woods to put on tunics and furs around a campfire.

Top
 Profile  
BlashyrkhMR101
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 639
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:05 am 
 

This looks somewhat interesting, but I'm a little more interested in this music. Can anyone tell me if the song used in the trailer is a new song or is it from Umskiptar? I haven't had an opportunity to listen due to hearing such negative things about it.

Top
 Profile  
PurpleDoom
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:39 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:19 am 
 

Quote:
Can anyone tell me if the song used in the trailer is a new song or is it from Umskiptar? I haven't had an opportunity to listen due to hearing such negative things about it.


It's Gullaldr, from Umskiptar.

Looking forward to whatever new music is put in the movie - though I'm wondering whether it's brand-new stuff or unreleased outtakes from previous works. Hopefully the music will be available on a CD with the movie, like Nocturno Culto did with The Misanthrope.

Top
 Profile  
SkinMM
Jesus Loves Me (More than You)

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:22 am 
 

The Neanderthal Genome Project is not a conspiracy theory or pseudoscience. As seems to be increasingly common, the left (supposed organ of scientific progress and rationality) has to deny part of its foundational methodology in order to ensure the continued propagation of its egalitarian dogma.

Curious to watch the film.

Top
 Profile  
ScandalfTheShite
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 392
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:18 am 
 

So maybe we could hold a contest: who has the most Neanderthal genes in him? I know I wouldn't win...

Curious to hear the new music though. Liked Umskiptar, as well as Belus and Fallen. Belus was the best of those though.
_________________
Give me the mustard, you bastard!

Top
 Profile  
Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:49 pm 
 

Aren't trailers meant to provide some more info on the actual movie than that?
That's resting on his name alone, purely based on the fact that there was almost NOTHING about the content of the movie in 10min of film.

As for the Neanderthal angle, is the one they're talking about that we (modern humans, at least in Europe) have to some extent Neanderthal DNA? I could be wrong, but I don't think any current schools of thought actually deny that. I guess Varg and his wife are probably going to exaggerate it to the point that they think Europeans and Africans should be taxonomically separate species, but meh. No one's gonna listen to them; it'll be like a second-rate version of one of those made-for-youtube movies about how Sir Francis Bacon is actually Merlin, probably Jesus, wrote all Shakespeare's stuff, and currently controls the US Government.

Top
 Profile  
Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:55 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
Aren't trailers meant to provide some more info on the actual movie than that?
That's resting on his name alone, purely based on the fact that there was almost NOTHING about the content of the movie in 10min of film.


I assumed the content of the movie was a lot of poorly filmed footage of old caves and playing in bear cult costumes, plus a bunch of pseudoscience in the narration.

Quote:
I guess Varg and his wife are probably going to exaggerate it to the point that they think Europeans and Africans should be taxonomically separate species, but meh. No one's gonna listen to them; it'll be like a second-rate version of one of those made-for-youtube movies about how Sir Francis Bacon is actually Merlin, probably Jesus, wrote all Shakespeare's stuff, and currently controls the US Government.


That's pretty much what Marie Cachet's site is full of - racist nonsense with so many wild references and misinterpretations of other things that viewers can accept it if it matches their preconceived notions. It's actually becoming a popular theory among white supremacists, and it looks better produced than most of the shit that gets sent around in chain emails or shared around the internet from stormfront and national alliance. The ideas behind things like this are to attach a pseudo-intellectual and otherwise appealing artistic elements to ideas that some people are somewhat receptive to. There are a lot of people who are racist to some degree, but very few who are admittedly hardcore white supremacists - a huge example is ill will towards Barack Obama based on his color, something that is rejected by society as a whole, but is encouraged by very large parts of it. If films like this can attach pseudo-intellectual credibility and pseudoscience to reinforce those beliefs, then they gain traction and support.

What I should say is that, rather than raving lunatics like some conspiracy theories, these are much more dangerous and harmful to society because there is still a lot of racism remaining despite the decades, even centuries of work that our society has done to reject those beliefs.

Top
 Profile  
marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6885
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:32 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
I couldn't help but smile when Varg was looking towards the Stave Church. I've been to Bergen once, and I think it was Fantoft.

I'm glad Marie Cachet seems much more willing to communicate with her viewers/readers than Varg is. In the two videos that has been uploaded to her channel, she eagerly responds to most questions...but the focus seems to be about European ancestry, Neanderthals and the ancient Bear Cults.


Big fan of the guy's music but Varg's ideology and his blatherings about it on his website are so idiotic to the point of irresistibility as to be comic gold. I never laughed so hard in so long when I last read his blog. I recommend it for a genuine laugh. For someone who champions the "superior Nordic race" or something of the other, I find it hilarious that he admires a species/subspecies (the neanderthals) that didn't exactly make the survival of the fittest cut and are widely used as a metaphor for dumb and ugly in most languages. Bear cults and wind spirits seem something more fascinating and better understood in Native American religions than what he is exploring imo. He should take a gander at that.

Top
 Profile  
MARSDUDE
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:17 pm
Posts: 1660
Location: Canardia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:47 pm 
 

marktheviktor wrote:
raumr wrote:
I couldn't help but smile when Varg was looking towards the Stave Church. I've been to Bergen once, and I think it was Fantoft.

I'm glad Marie Cachet seems much more willing to communicate with her viewers/readers than Varg is. In the two videos that has been uploaded to her channel, she eagerly responds to most questions...but the focus seems to be about European ancestry, Neanderthals and the ancient Bear Cults.


Big fan of the guy's music but Varg's ideology and his blatherings about it on his website are so idiotic to the point of irresistibility as to be comic gold. I never laughed so hard in so long when I last read his blog. I recommend it for a genuine laugh. For someone who champions the "superior Nordic race" or something of the other, I find it hilarious that he admires a species/subspecies (the neanderthals) that didn't exactly make the survival of the fittest cut and are widely used as a metaphor for dumb and ugly in most languages. Bear cults and wind spirits seem something more fascinating and better understood in Native American religions than what he is exploring imo. He should take a gander at that.


The view on neanderthal you speak of is considered to be fairly archaic, based off of more modern discoveries.

Top
 Profile  
Hawksword192
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:54 pm 
 

That view is archaic but they did surely get pushed out by the more intelligent and innovative H. sapiens in Europe. They might not have been stupid but they weren't creative, imaginative, or great at innovation. They were our rugged and tough cousins that could only survive in one era of history and nowhere else.

Top
 Profile  
Turtle_Factory
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:14 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:01 pm 
 

And here I thought this would be some kind of "Where like takes us" type of documentary. Well, a lot of pseudo history documentaries are pretty much in style nowadays.

Though I really despise his points of views, I would have at least considered watching the doc before I saw the trailer. That didn't even make any sense!
_________________
"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite." - William Blake

Top
 Profile  
Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2659
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:24 pm 
 

Looks like something that would be posted by an Hyperborean Intelectual™ on the stormfront forums

Top
 Profile  
grauer_mausling
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1768
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:12 am 
 

ahhhhhhhhhrghhhh, they used the Papyrus font :lol: With Comic Sans the most overused and shitty font out there. But then - it is often used for esoteric bullshit (or your asia snack bar around the corner, oh or Lamb of God, haha) like that ;)
_________________
my 80s-90s Picture Tumblr

click to visit my Deviantart-Page for some logo and shirt design work
(contact me if your band needs a new logo or anything design related)

Top
 Profile  
Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:13 am 
 

grauer_mausling wrote:
With Comic Sans the most overused and shitty font out there


nooooo!!! comic sans is the best font ever!

Top
 Profile  
Paganbasque
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 1445
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:00 am 
 

I dont see anything interesting in this trailer. No useful images, no interesting comments. Anyway if the docu is liked I will take a look.

Top
 Profile  
jerk
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:43 am
Posts: 149
Location: Malaysia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:14 am 
 

Well, that's exactly what I expected it was going to be. A lot of racist blathering and harebrained "philosophy" from good ol' Uncle Varg. Those are some very nice cave formations, though. Seriously, Varg, just stick to music and leave your philosophy alone. Might be good for a chuckle, though, just like his stupid blog.

Top
 Profile  
kapala
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:56 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:50 am 
 

This documentary, and Marie Cachet's blog, seem to be about as credible as the Youtube videos arguing that we're controlled by reptilian overlords from space.
The unfortunate part is, like Zodijackyl mentioned, is there are enough people harbouring borderline racist, and often, outright racist viewpoints, that would totally buy into something ridiculous like this, making it more appealing that our reptilian overlord friends. Her misinterpretation of sources is kind of... astounding. Though I did have a pretty good laugh at why she almost never cites things:

Quote:
[...]but the readers should understand that these materials are under the Code of intellectual property and that I often can not copy them without obtaining specific authorization. This is generally impossible, firstly because of the politically incorrect content of some of the results that I present here, and secondly because these specific authorizations must of course be paid, and I can not pay all my sources .
_________________
MariusBR wrote:
Go ask a Swede by the way. [...] They would probably tell you that the only way to be BM is to wear a mace in your pants.

Top
 Profile  
Veracs
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:56 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:52 am 
 

The guy has already exposed himself as an idiot for the last decade with regards to his views on history, the scene, and of course his writings on his site are more inconsistent than we could all shake a stick at. I'm amazed that this is such news sure its a documentary but still we all know how much of an asshat his personal views are, we're beating the skeleton of an already pulverized fully decayed horse.
_________________
Malignanthrone wrote:

Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

Top
 Profile  
TheHellstorm
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:18 am
Posts: 49
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:00 am 
 

So, according to Louis Cachet... Ekhm... Varg Vikernes, the black man comes from ape and white is descendant of the cave bear?

Top
 Profile  
Aszfargoth
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 8:16 am
Posts: 336
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:14 am 
 

TheHellstorm wrote:
So, according to Louis Cachet... Ekhm... Varg Vikernes, the black man comes from ape and white is descendant of the cave bear?


Yes. By the way, here's an official promotional shot of Varg wearing spiritual armour from the recording sessions for the next Burzum album:

Spoiler: show
Image

Top
 Profile  
Expedience
Veteran

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 3612
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:04 am 
 

kapala wrote:
This documentary, and Marie Cachet's blog, seem to be about as credible as the Youtube videos arguing that we're controlled by reptilian overlords from space.
The unfortunate part is, like Zodijackyl mentioned, is there are enough people harbouring borderline racist, and often, outright racist viewpoints, that would totally buy into something ridiculous like this, making it more appealing that our reptilian overlord friends. Her misinterpretation of sources is kind of... astounding. Though I did have a pretty good laugh at why she almost never cites things:

Quote:
[...]but the readers should understand that these materials are under the Code of intellectual property and that I often can not copy them without obtaining specific authorization. This is generally impossible, firstly because of the politically incorrect content of some of the results that I present here, and secondly because these specific authorizations must of course be paid, and I can not pay all my sources .


I don't know any researcher who wouldn't be delighted to be cited anywhere, even on that cult nonsense website.

Top
 Profile  
soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 628
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:49 pm 
 

Hawksword192 wrote:
That view is archaic but they did surely get pushed out by the more intelligent and innovative H. sapiens in Europe. They might not have been stupid but they weren't creative, imaginative, or great at innovation. They were our rugged and tough cousins that could only survive in one era of history and nowhere else.


Right, I mean -- that's the whole point of this alter-philosophical view. They are disputing that Neandrathal was supplanted by migrating H. Sapien.

Top
 Profile  
kapala
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:56 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:18 pm 
 

Expedience wrote:

I don't know any researcher who wouldn't be delighted to be cited anywhere, even on that cult nonsense website.


Exactly. And there was something about not citing anything that comes from a book, because no one will buy the books to look it up. What?
I mean, it's been awhile since I studied, but is that really how things fly these days? :lol: (I know it's not, I'm joking...)
_________________
MariusBR wrote:
Go ask a Swede by the way. [...] They would probably tell you that the only way to be BM is to wear a mace in your pants.

Top
 Profile  
Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:29 pm 
 

soul_schizm wrote:
Right, I mean -- that's the whole point of this alter-philosophical view. They are disputing that Neandrathal was supplanted by migrating H. Sapien.


Unfortunately for me (I have no life) I read a fair few of Cachet's blog entries on the subject a few hours ago. The core of their argument seems to be:

- all existing humans (and Neanderthal) have ca. 96% of their DNA in common with Chimpanzees, our nearest non-hominid ancestor.
- The leftover ~4% in the case of Europeans is overwhelmingly Neanderthal-specific
- Africans (the real Homo sapiens) have 0% of this Neanderthal DNA, because Neanderthals never ventured outside Europe
- ergo, all Europeans are almost 100% Neanderthal (with some small % of sapiens DNA thanks to migration and such)
- ergo ergo, (and this takes some willingness to believe) Africans are only slightly more related to Europeans than chimps

There's also a part on how the small % of "mixed" DNA in Europeans created some kind of existential crisis within European humans and somehow the resulting fallout gave way to culture, the arts, burzum, etc. Not too sure how they explain African cultures and artforms in this respect.

Sadly, the layout of her website is really hard to follow, and the terminology/stats I don't rightly understand are further made harder to understand with her terrible English. But I think that's what they're saying.

But on the citations note, absolutely NO SCHOLAR EVER wants to be associated in any way with these sorts of nuts. It's like when politicians with anti-immigration policies attract neo-nazis to their rallies.

Top
 Profile  
Expedience
Veteran

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 3612
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:57 am 
 

Turner wrote:
But on the citations note, absolutely NO SCHOLAR EVER wants to be associated in any way with these sorts of nuts. It's like when politicians with anti-immigration policies attract neo-nazis to their rallies.


Not similar at all. Academic research isn't politics.

But even so, Cachet has it the wrong way round - NOT citing your sources is a misuse of intellectual property. You have to acknowledge where you got your info. Using a quote is fine if you say who you got it from, and you don't have to pay them. The idea of someone suing her for giving them due credit is ridiculous.

Top
 Profile  
Hawksword192
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:06 am 
 

Turner wrote:
soul_schizm wrote:
Right, I mean -- that's the whole point of this alter-philosophical view. They are disputing that Neandrathal was supplanted by migrating H. Sapien.


Unfortunately for me (I have no life) I read a fair few of Cachet's blog entries on the subject a few hours ago. The core of their argument seems to be:

- all existing humans (and Neanderthal) have ca. 96% of their DNA in common with Chimpanzees, our nearest non-hominid ancestor.
- The leftover ~4% in the case of Europeans is overwhelmingly Neanderthal-specific
- Africans (the real Homo sapiens) have 0% of this Neanderthal DNA, because Neanderthals never ventured outside Europe
- ergo, all Europeans are almost 100% Neanderthal (with some small % of sapiens DNA thanks to migration and such)
- ergo ergo, (and this takes some willingness to believe) Africans are only slightly more related to Europeans than chimps

There's also a part on how the small % of "mixed" DNA in Europeans created some kind of existential crisis within European humans and somehow the resulting fallout gave way to culture, the arts, burzum, etc. Not too sure how they explain African cultures and artforms in this respect.

Sadly, the layout of her website is really hard to follow, and the terminology/stats I don't rightly understand are further made harder to understand with her terrible English. But I think that's what they're saying.

But on the citations note, absolutely NO SCHOLAR EVER wants to be associated in any way with these sorts of nuts. It's like when politicians with anti-immigration policies attract neo-nazis to their rallies.


Thanks for summing her views up for me. I can easily say that this absolutely pseudo-scientific bullshit that won't be sourced because no scientific paper have ever been produced nearing anything so insane. It's true that Europeans (and Asians) have a small percentage (1-3%) of Neanderthal DNA (which I remind would nearly be virtually identical to H. sapien) due to crossbreeding as H. sapiens moved into Europe 40,000 years ago, but to insinuate from this sliver of Neanderthal specific relation as evidence for the continued existence of the Neanderthal into the present is bullshit. H. sapiens replaced the Neanderthals because H. sapiens were smarter, more creative, and significantly better at inventing new tools to deal with their surroundings as proven from the artifacts found in sites roughly contemporary H. sapien sites to Neanderthal sites. The truly hilarious thing on regards to all of this is that the Neanderthals were out-competed because the cold environment adaptations were inferior to their cousins ingenuity especially when their environments began to rapidly fluctuate from Ice Age to warmer weather. Neanderthals did create tools and were quite intelligent but they weren't good enough at adapting to their surroundings.

Also before I forget, I'm not completely up to date on Neanderthal site discoveries but I'm still pretty sure there has been no definitive evidence that Neanderthals were capable of abstract and symbolic thought unlike the plethora of evidence for H. sapiens as old as 50,000 years ago. The Vikernes must have balls though to claim that culture arose from an existentialist crisis in a group of people supposedly derived from a H. sapiens subspecies that if alive today would be boring and unimaginative. While they likely weren't stupid, they're not the ubermensch all these Stormfront kids would have you believe ever since they found out that Neanderthal crossbreeding did occur.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCSaint10, FasterDisaster, thrashinbatman and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group