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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:32 pm 
 

I often manage to pull some vibrato off as well.

Last days I've been singing along to Kamelot's ''Sacrimony'' and I think my voice sounded solid enough. This semi high stuff seems to be the best to practice these days: it's challenging yet not something I'd strain my ass off to.

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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:08 pm 
 

gomorro - I think your best bet would be to focus on airflow efficiency then. What I've found helpful for this is to practice while sitting down. You definitely won't sound as good while doing it, but try anyways to get your normal sound, and when you practice normal again you will notice an adjustment to using less air to get the sound.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:55 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Generally, if I can hit the note, I can give it at least some wide vibrato.

colin040 wrote:
I often manage to pull some vibrato off as well.

Actual vibrato, or merely that you manage to waver the pitch slightly so as to make it sound like vibrato was used?
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:57 pm 
 

Actual vibrato, man.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:09 pm 
 

Good question Ilwhyan. I'm not too sure about it actually. Will have to record to hear that.

I'm planning on working on my vocals with a more strict approach: divide exercises over the days so I'll probably practice them more efficent. I also really need to pay attention to my sleep. I hate to put effort into my singing while I'm tired.

EDIT: Decided to upload a little vocal sample going from C4 to C5. It's just a short sample with nothing spectacular about it so don't expect any vocal sample full of effort or anything great for that matter.

http://soundcloud.com/colin040/c4-to-c5

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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1679
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:26 pm 
 

I need to get back into my vocals. My cleans I'm not so worried about - I don't have any real ambitions as a clean singer except to demonstrate ideas and play a bit of country stuff, and it is reasonably easy to just sit out in my backyard and do some singing here and there, it is my harshes that I'm almost scared to hear now - I was getting good, learning properly and rarely if ever pushing myself too far in a session, going for a black-thrash sound primarily. However, when my occupation changed, so did the times I was at home, and it isn't exactly do able for me to be practicing those type of vocals whilst other people are home.

Really, really need my license...
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:14 pm 
 

Ilwhyan, here's a little clip I recorded to give you an idea. Although my vibrato It's pretty lacking so far, this could give you an idea of me trying it.

http://soundcloud.com/colin040/high-note

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:31 pm 
 

To be honest, I can't tell from that as the vibrato wasn't deep enough. Very nice job hitting that note, though.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:44 pm 
 

So I figured out that my range is roughly from A2 to A4. Maybe a note or two higher on a good day and with falsetto, but those are what I can sing comfortably. I think that makes me a Baritone.
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sea
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:47 am 
 

Anyone have thoughts on technique for low pitched black metal vocals?

My high pitched black metal vocals are basically falsetto shrieks along the lines of Gorgoroth, Enslaved, Absu, early Arcturus, Finntroll, Vintersorg, etc. They are totally competent and, for me, very easy to do nearly non-stop.

What I have been struggling with for years is dropping the pitch and getting something closer to, say, the vocals off of Asmegin's Arv album, Suidakra, Dissection, that sort of thing. While shrieks are fun, I find that my range for black metal is very limited... but I simply cannot figure out how to do them. Is there a different approach to the technique or is it more a case of my natural speaking voice being too high-pitch to go that low? I am pretty sure that it is totally different from standard death metal growls, which I also have no problem with.

Another one I am sort of trying to do something along the lines of Ihsahn's, but I'm pretty sure that my voice just does not match, because he has a pretty unique technique that probably sounds like shit for anyone else.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:28 am 
 

I would say the lower black metal vocals you speak of are actually high pitched death growls, ie. death growls with as little depth and chest resonance as possible. Can you growl? Try taking most of the resonance to your nasal cavity like how you probably do with the high pitched screams. See how that sounds.

When I try taking my high-pitched scream to a lower growl, it really fucks up my voice. Better avoid that, I guess.

Necroticism174 wrote:
So I figured out that my range is roughly from A2 to A4. Maybe a note or two higher on a good day and with falsetto, but those are what I can sing comfortably. I think that makes me a Baritone.

A2 is pretty high for a baritone's lowest note, but then, it's more a classification of voice type than range. Anyhow, Opera baritones would have to be to be able to sing at least a G2. You are most likely a tenor.

A4 is nice without straining though. You can just about sing Soldier of Fortune without straining.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:00 am 
 

Necro, last time I heard your voice it sounded really tenor-ish but you probably know your voice better than I do.

I'd love to get rid of my current cold. It just doesn't great to sing this way and my motivation decreases due to this as well.

It also seems like my low notes aren't what they normally are since the last couple of days. My F2 and occasional Eb2 notes aren't reachable for now. G2 really is my current limit at the moment.

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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:19 pm 
 

It's possible that I'm a tenor, just on the lower end and not ridiculous like Midnight or something :lol:
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:40 pm 
 

Midnight was a beast. The guy sang many 5th octave notes with such power.

I'm still keeping my voice on a lower register for now. Sang along to Kamelot's ''The Great Pandemonium'' and managed to do a decent job at it I suppose. I also managed to hit some strong B4's today but might have tried to pull my chest way higher than it should be; the result is power, but maybe with a bit too much strain that it's not healthy. I should ask my teacher about this.

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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1679
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:00 pm 
 

Hey guys, a video of my girlfriend singing "Don't Talk To Strangers" has just been put up online and I was wondering if we could get some feedback on it maybe? She's a very good singer - this was definitely an off day for her, but the production was good enough we decided to upload it. She was going to use this for her audition for The Voice but went with AC/DC instead, partially because it was a bit more commercial. I am a bit anxious for it to be out there as she hasn't done much singing in awhile (used to do clubs and the like), but yeah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tSnzcgCHGQ&feature=plcp
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sea
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:34 am 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
I would say the lower black metal vocals you speak of are actually high pitched death growls, ie. death growls with as little depth and chest resonance as possible. Can you growl? Try taking most of the resonance to your nasal cavity like how you probably do with the high pitched screams. See how that sounds.

When I try taking my high-pitched scream to a lower growl, it really fucks up my voice. Better avoid that, I guess.

I can definitely do higher-pitch growls, and that works for some of it. But thinking of stuff specifically like Dissection, it's definitely much more of a "spoken" kind of rasp, the projection and intensity is completely different, there's a "crackle" to it you just don't get with growling.

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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:54 pm 
 

TheUglySoldier wrote:
Hey guys, a video of my girlfriend singing "Don't Talk To Strangers" has just been put up online and I was wondering if we could get some feedback on it maybe? She's a very good singer - this was definitely an off day for her, but the production was good enough we decided to upload it. She was going to use this for her audition for The Voice but went with AC/DC instead, partially because it was a bit more commercial. I am a bit anxious for it to be out there as she hasn't done much singing in awhile (used to do clubs and the like), but yeah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tSnzcgCHGQ&feature=plcp


The soft part at the beginning is decent, she fucks up that first big note pretty badly though. Her held notes don't seem to have much vibrato and sound pretty flat and hoarse. Also singing a Dio song with no grit just sounds weird to me. All in all, it wasn't terrible but she needs to focus on those things and practice more. Also that last note :thumbsdown:
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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1679
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:23 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
TheUglySoldier wrote:
Hey guys, a video of my girlfriend singing "Don't Talk To Strangers" has just been put up online and I was wondering if we could get some feedback on it maybe? She's a very good singer - this was definitely an off day for her, but the production was good enough we decided to upload it. She was going to use this for her audition for The Voice but went with AC/DC instead, partially because it was a bit more commercial. I am a bit anxious for it to be out there as she hasn't done much singing in awhile (used to do clubs and the like), but yeah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tSnzcgCHGQ&feature=plcp


The soft part at the beginning is decent, she fucks up that first big note pretty badly though. Her held notes don't seem to have much vibrato and sound pretty flat and hoarse. Also singing a Dio song with no grit just sounds weird to me. All in all, it wasn't terrible but she needs to focus on those things and practice more. Also that last note :thumbsdown:


Cheers for the feedback - she was having a pretty off day. I don't agree with you on all counts, I thought it was pretty damn good (maybe I'm bias.), cheers though!
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DeathcoreDecimator
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:34 pm
Posts: 622
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:52 pm 
 

I'm having a bit of trouble with screams. I use the false chord style for low growls/shouts and high pitched screams, but due to lung capacity issues I decided to try out the vocal fry technique. What I realized is that it is essentially the same thing as a low guttural, except I can use the entire range. It took me a while to develop volume in lows and mids, but through that I also came to realize it is a lot less taxing on your lungs. My only problem is I can't hit the highs just right. They always sound strained and never as loud as the lows/mids. I can always get them to sound half assed, but they are never that high and slimey sound I'm looking for. What can I do to improve this? Or alternatively, what can I do to increase my vocal capacity for false chord screams?

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:14 pm 
 

DeathcoreDecimator wrote:
I'm having a bit of trouble with screams. I use the false chord style for low growls/shouts and high pitched screams, but due to lung capacity issues I decided to try out the vocal fry technique. What I realized is that it is essentially the same thing as a low guttural, except I can use the entire range. It took me a while to develop volume in lows and mids, but through that I also came to realize it is a lot less taxing on your lungs. My only problem is I can't hit the highs just right. They always sound strained and never as loud as the lows/mids. I can always get them to sound half assed, but they are never that high and slimey sound I'm looking for. What can I do to improve this? Or alternatively, what can I do to increase my vocal capacity for false chord screams?


You might just be trying to push your range beyond where it's comfortable - I can't sustain much power or volume beyond mid-range growls. If you're looking for a slimy sounding high, I used to drink a lot of orange juice while recording and it would help with that.

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DeathcoreDecimator
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:46 pm 
 

That's funny you mention OJ, I was thinking that it had something to do with what I consumed in order to properly lubricate my throat. Then again it could be a matter of getting the right ratio of constriction to vibration/air flow. It might also just be a matter of time before they actually sound good.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:03 pm 
 

DeathcoreDecimator wrote:
That's funny you mention OJ, I was thinking that it had something to do with what I consumed in order to properly lubricate my throat. Then again it could be a matter of getting the right ratio of constriction to vibration/air flow. It might also just be a matter of time before they actually sound good.


Hydration is a huge part of it - I recorded all of a certain band's demos tracks many years ago while drinking orange juice. I used to think I sounded better when drinking alcohol, but that's just because I didn't feel my throat hurting, I'd get hoarse pretty quickly and it'd hurt the next day, and being dehydrated really doesn't help. Drinking enough water for days before (i.e. don't be hungover or eat chinese food right before) and having orange juice helps a lot.

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DeathcoreDecimator
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:34 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:22 pm 
 

So it seems to me like lifestyle plays a huge role in it. Makes me wonder how dudes like Glen Benton have done it all these years. Thanks for the help man!

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colin040
Metal freak

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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:41 pm 
 

Getting slowly used to using resonance for my higher register. it really gives my high notes a fuller a thicker sound which is good. I think B4's are notes I could nowadays sing in a song. I'm still not over my cold however. :(

A better clip while trying vibrato; http://soundcloud.com/colin040/vibrato

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Ricin
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:25 pm
Posts: 104
Location: The Crown of Sidley
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:16 am 
 

Alright, I have pretty essential problem to overcome. How exactly can I maintain a growl/scream longer? I want to be able to growl for at least 20 seconds but I can only hold a growl for barely 6 seconds. And exercises or techniques that can help me improve this? Also, should I attemp to increase my lung capacity. Any help is appreciated.
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Slaytanic55
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:53 pm
Posts: 153
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:56 pm 
 

Right now I'm trying to perfect my thrash vocals. Right now they're very Sodom-esque but I want them to be more Demolition Hammer-esque. Shouldn't be too hard, as the two styles are very similar. Then, on to the task of forming a band...

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:17 pm 
 

Speaking of thrash metal vocals, I should try some early Metallica material as I'm interested how it turns out. I definitely should use some resonance though, as my voice naturally sounds really clean and quite ''pretty''.

And I figured out my good sounding range is about F#2-C5 which is cool. Lets just hope I'll get rid of this cold soon.

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mike40k
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:27 pm
Posts: 370
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:46 pm 
 

Any ideas what effects Wrest puts on his vocals to get the weird and fucked up sound he has in Leviathan songs?

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Connor123
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:08 am
Posts: 7
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:21 pm 
 

Any tips on thrash vocals, either tom araya style or james hetfield?

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VincentVanGone
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 pm
Posts: 51
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:15 am 
 

Thrash vocals are a bitch to learn. I'm currently trying to go for a Vulgar/Far Beyond Driven era Phil Anselmo sound. It's hard learning how to do grit properly (at least for me.) His vocals are difficult to emulate cause I really wouldn't call it a growl. It just sounds like his voice has a lot of grit to it. Then again, people would call that a growl. Idk, it sounds different to me.

Any tips would be appreciated!
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:23 am 
 

I don't generally do 'em, and I can't comment on how you will be able to maintain your voice using this technique, but it's easy to get a lot of grit by singing from the diaphragm. I can get a Darren White sound quite naturally, and if I developed it further, I could do something between Scott Kelly and Nemtheanga (see the first couple of lines of Empire Falls).

Just breath in heavily using your diaphragm, and when you sing, just bellow by pressing with the diaphragm. The more you put nasal resonance to it, the grittier it will be. You'll be able to easily alternate between rough singing and outright pitchless growling.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:35 am 
 

Yesterday was a good singing day. During the afternoon I felt my voice wasn't really ready to sing (I cracked, had little control over it) but in the evening things changed completely. Had a blast belting some high notes. The power is already there, now it's just a matter of focusing more on proper technique so every note sounds solid - sometimes I tend to sound a little sloppy though. A positive thing was that I felt no tiredness in my voice at all after an hour of doing this so I'm definitely heading into the right direction with singing. :)

I'd like to take lessons again though as I recently I quit at my old vocal teacher. I really questioned some of the information she gave me and rarely felt motivated due to her. I'm glad she made me start singing however.

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ghostxyz3
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:08 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:19 pm 
 

Hey guys, I have a few questions about vocals. I've been doing growls for a while and don't really have problems with pain, but if I try to move them higher it hurts after a couple minutes, and if I put less power into my growls I'll go into falsetto which leads me to believe I might be using a bad technique. Another thing that concerns me is that the distortion feels very tight in my throat (my throat isn't tight, but the distortion feels like a small popping sensation rather than a rumble.) When I first started, I watched countless youtube vids and read all the articles I could and never really figured out those methods of distortion (ex. angry sigh, if I do that now I will get sore after a couple minutes) so I just started messing around and achieved what I have now. I am using my diaphragm, and I feel it resonate in my chest as well. Anyways I'm wondering if my whole technique is wrong or if I just need to modify some things. Please be as descriptive as possible.

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Xanzotire
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 117
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:58 pm 
 

Just ordered copies of G.B. Lamperti's Vocal Wisdom and Jerome Hines' 'Great Singers on Great Singing'. Latter has interviews with Pavarotti and Joan Sutherland. I figure if anyone can help me to produce an ear-splitting banshee shriek it's a classically trained soprano :p
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JStock
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:58 am
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:08 am 
 

I really enjoy Jamie Vendra programs for rock singing, a lot of informations

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Thiestru
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 1185
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:11 pm 
 

I fucked up my voice this weekend. Had some time alone, so I figured I'd record myself singing along with Dream Theater's 'Caught in a Web'. I was feeling good, although my performance wasn't great, but generally everything felt all right. Then I decided to go for broke: C#6. I'd never hit that note before in my life, but I got it then. Next day, I didn't notice anything wrong, but the day after that my throat hurt a little, and ever since then I can't shout or sing at all really. Guess I just pushed it too far. Oh well, I'll give it a rest and focus on guitar in the meantime. :)

P.S. Here's the link, so you don't think I'm just talking rubbish. Just remember when you criticize me: I didn't say I was a good singer. :-P

https://soundcloud.com/thiestru/caught- ... ocal-cover

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ghostxyz3
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:08 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:57 pm 
 

So I posted in this thread about a month ago and didn't get any responses. During that time I've done some revisions and I'm no longer having pain in my high screams unless I go too high, so I'm not really worried about that. My next question is with gutturals. I've tried all different mouth and throat positions. I get something that sounds like a guttural but it's not quite right. I'm having trouble getting that low and getting a full gurgle tone to it. Right now they sound something like a gargley muffled growl. I watched some videos and most people seem to transition very smoothly into a full guttural so I feel like I'm not doing something right. Someone suggested to talk like Pee Wee Herman and lower it, but when I do that my throat hurts very bad within a couple minutes so I'm not going to try that technique anymore. Has anyone had this happen to them and pushed through it or am I just going about the technique wrong?

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:36 pm 
 

Thiestru wrote:
I fucked up my voice this weekend. Had some time alone, so I figured I'd record myself singing along with Dream Theater's 'Caught in a Web'. I was feeling good, although my performance wasn't great, but generally everything felt all right. Then I decided to go for broke: C#6. I'd never hit that note before in my life, but I got it then. Next day, I didn't notice anything wrong, but the day after that my throat hurt a little, and ever since then I can't shout or sing at all really. Guess I just pushed it too far. Oh well, I'll give it a rest and focus on guitar in the meantime. :)

P.S. Here's the link, so you don't think I'm just talking rubbish. Just remember when you criticize me: I didn't say I was a good singer. :-P

https://soundcloud.com/thiestru/caught- ... ocal-cover


Your tone sounds really bright, making it pleasant to listen to. The shouted parts here and there didn't really get me. The higher parts definitely sound a bit strained and lack power. Add more resonance to that and don't forget to breath correctly (something I personally feel is really hard.) Fun C#6 at the end, but if it screws your vocal chords you better just focus on your regular singing notes.

Vacation is almost starting here. I hope to find a coach again during that and then pick up singing lessons again. This time from a more motivating coach I hope.

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Thiestru
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 1185
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:03 pm 
 

Thank you! I know what you mean about the high parts. They didn't feel strained when I was singing them, but I definitely lack body and power when I'm up in that register. I honestly don't know how to fix that. As for the C#6, I surprised myself when I hit it; the highest I've ever gotten before that was a B5, and that was with great effort, really a scream. I don't intend to try to mess with those extremely high notes in the future. My voice is starting to feel a bit better today, but it needs a while longer to rest, because at times throughout the day I felt like I was starting to get hoarse. And breathing correctly... yeah, that's hard because I never even think about it, you know? I'll be more mindful from now on.

Good luck finding a better coach. If I had the money for it, I'd maybe try to find one myself. Anyway, thanks again, and enjoy your vacation. :)

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:17 pm 
 

Not too long ago I was busy singing scales. I was struggling around the F#5/G5 area cause my breathing was all over the place. Once I got it down good I managed to hit a G#5 a lot easier.

A thing I also need to remind me of is to sleep well. I hate singing stuff that really takes toll on you if you don't do it correct at all.

Also, here's me covering Virgin Steele's ''Don't Close Your Eyes''. I already showed XlXl and while I obviously have some fucks up here and there I'd like to share it and receive feedback. (especially this :p)

http://soundcloud.com/colin040/dontclose

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