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Frank Booth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:58 pm 
 

You're right, I did misinterpret it. It looked like you were accusing me of saying that Abnormality got a pass only because they aren't big outside of their region and that I wasn't doing the same for CB because they have grown big internationally, hence the "trver than thou" part. My apologies.

And yes, bands who use female members as selling points can suck my balls. There are two types of women in metal: women who play metal and make sure that they stay musicians and don't turn into mascots (Som, Mallika, Christine Davis, Elizabeth Schall, etc.), and metal chicks, or women who use themselves as mascots in order to get horny neckbeards and teenage douchebags to flock to the band in spite of their shitty music (Angela Gossow, Maria Brink, Alissa White-Gluz, Jill Janus, etc.). I think that the latter are at least part of the reason why more women don't go into metal; they're afraid that they're going to wind up becoming metal chicks in spite of their efforts to avoid it. The other half is that there are indeed a lot of obnoxious little shits who love to shout "SHOW US YOUR TITS" or something similarly moronic or otherwise act like misogynistic assholes. While bands who gain enough of a rep tend to lose these little fucks, they have to put up with them until that point comes. I remember Mallika telling me about how many hecklers Abnormality got when they started; lots of kids would come just to shout at her to get back in the kitchen or whatever. Her stock response was something along the lines of "why don't you go fuck yourself?" and variants thereof whenever someone said something like that, but it must have been tiring. Of course, no one does that now because Abnormality are more or less the top dogs in the current Boston scene ever since Revocation started touring everywhere. It's all about respect, really, and women definitely have an uphill battle there.

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androdion
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:22 pm 
 

It's all cool Frank, I'm an easy going guy. ;)

Women in metal are a funny phenomenon. When looking from the outside everyone sees metal as a man's world where testosterone rules, the "harder than steel" paradigma, the "metal warriors" and all that. And you know, all the bands from the 80s started that with the disassociation from the glam scene as being "gay" and "not what metal is all about", as if metal was a world reserved for the mightiest, bravest and with the biggest balls, men of course. I think we all remember the Lemmy interview from A Headbanger's Journey where he's inquired about taking Girlschool on the road with them back in the day. Everyone was frowning on Motorhead for doing it, so in reality this misogyny thing comes from long ago.

On the other hand you can't stop to notice a changing pattern in the metal audiences over the past decade. I remember being at a festival back in 2005 where I went to see specifically Nightwish. They were billed with Within Temptation, at the time of their commercial breakthrough, and Anathema plus a few minor names. So you had all sorts of people in the crowd. I can't take one chat of my mind, which was happening right next to me between shows. This though guy, muscles from head to toe, all acting strong and all that macho bullshit was talking shit about how Rhapsody were flowery and "not really metal" but more like "girlie metal", whereas he promptly replied when inquired that Nightwish no! They were the real deal! Now, I love Nightwish but the guy was just seeing boobs for fuck's sake. Saying that one is flowery and the other isn't is like... well you know. My point being that audiences themselves began to have this reasoning and way of thinking, which I'm convinced as stated earlier that was caused by the media and some specific names. I think that one of the major breakthroughs in that image campaign for metal women was with Christina Scabia, which to this day is still seen as a goddess among metal circles. Not that she hasn't got the "wow" factor but that way of thinking with your eyes and dick (and in women's case with feminism and/or companionship for a fellow lady in metal) has been marketed for so long that it has become the current state of affairs. Unless of course you're the underground dude who just wants the real deal and not just a pretty face.

It must be tough for hard working women in metal to be constantly bombarded with shit from the male audiences because of their looks, and even more if they are actually good musicians that work hard. I spent a whole day facepalming myself in a festival this August because Chthonic and Arch Enemy were billed in the same day. Even during sound check Doris didn't have it easy, it was pathetic and an absolute disgrace. Then with Angela it was even worse, at least she doesn't understand Portuguese... But I digress.

It must be especially hard for women in metal that are hard working and decent musicians when they have a nice looking face! I have never listened to Abnormality but I did check Mallika out of curiosity and she's pretty cute in her own way. But then she's the lead singer on not one but two different BDM bands! I mean, respect sister! Metal needs more women like that and I really think that Som could've given back something to the scene as well. I'm not sure if Cerebral Bore was the right vessel for that but given the absence of a campaign image around her and the growing popularity of the band I wonder what could've been.

I have to make a mention to that Maria Brink chick though. Googling her name and hitting the "Images" search is like opening a lingerie catalogue or a Maxim/FHM/whatever men's magazine. Does she sing? I forgot, eh. :nono:
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Subrick
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:36 pm 
 

I played with Abnormality on Halloween at a show I headlined with Sorrowseed in Providence. Everyone in that band is super chill, Jay, Josh, and Mallika especially. Jay and I spent a good 20 minutes outside talking drums, Josh and I both became really excited when the house played back to back between bands King Diamond and Judas Priest, and Mallika I had to like out of principle for wearing a Lecherous Nocturne shirt. Plus Mallika said that she had come to see us play in Providence the last time we had played at Dusk back in September, which was completely unknown to me at the time.

Also, Maria Brink I feel is the poster child for a female metal singer that gets all the attention shifted onto her. That new pile of shit that In This Moment put out is fucking atrocious, particularly the title track and its terrible video where you never see the instrumentalists onscreen for more than 2 or 3 seconds at a time, and when you do they're blurry and you never see their faces.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:42 pm 
 

It's hard not to like a girl that wears a Human Waste shirt, ha ha. :metal:

You actually made me YT that video and oh my, it's atrocious! The video that is, plus I made the mistake of turning on the sound for half a minute and nearly shat myself. What the fuck is that??? And more importantly, what the hell does it have to do with metal?! I'm scarred for life now... :ugh:
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:46 pm 
 

It's sort of the same "Why in the living fuck would anybody want to buy this crap?" scenario that I feel with the new All That Remains album, only in the case of ITM, they've doubly mastered both dumbing down the songwriting to Death Valley levels of low and have made the entire purpose of the band "Look at our singer! She's hot! She's got fake tits! Cum all over her Revolver spread, teenage zit farmers!"
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Frank Booth
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:49 pm 
 

Yeah, ITM is the poster child for what is wrong with modern rock. Also, Brink is a pretty shitty vocalist live, from what I've heard; the Autotune is painfully obvious in the studio material.

And yeah, the Abnormality guys are really chill; hell, even Josh put up with my jokingly referring to him as "Ross Dolan" because of his long fucking hair.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:52 pm 
 

Yeah, his hair is freakishly long. Not Matt Barlow on Alive in Athens long, but it's longer than mine, and I've been growing mine out without cutting it at all for over 3 years.
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Evangelion2014
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:53 am 
 

androdion wrote:
It's hard not to like a girl that wears a Human Waste shirt, ha ha. :metal:

You actually made me YT that video and oh my, it's atrocious! The video that is, plus I made the mistake of turning on the sound for half a minute and nearly shat myself. What the fuck is that??? And more importantly, what the hell does it have to do with metal?! I'm scarred for life now... :ugh:


Subrick wrote:
It's sort of the same "Why in the living fuck would anybody want to buy this crap?" scenario that I feel with the new All That Remains album, only in the case of ITM, they've doubly mastered both dumbing down the songwriting to Death Valley levels of low and have made the entire purpose of the band "Look at our singer! She's hot! She's got fake tits! Cum all over her Revolver spread, teenage zit farmers!"



To be fair, the all that remains album is just a patch of really souless, generic metalcore with a modern rock edge, bland riffs moving from gothenburg stock riff #44368 to riff #15930. I've just been youtubing it out of curiosity, and 'stand up' is what they hope will get radio play; everyone has heard this album before, but there's this sense of importance and entitlement that I kind of get, especially from 'stand up' and 'Just Moments in time'. Maybe listening to the whole album is torture though, because it's literally like listening to every local metalcore band that never broke their own scenes. Ok, 'moments in time' time is the most generic metalcore song that i've heard in forever. Stock swedish riffing, chorus verse structure with shouty hardcore vocals in verses and layered poppy clean vocals, an 'intense' one note breakdown placed in the middle of a song, with a a harmonized 'emotive' solo, then the chorus repeating itself for a final time but this time with harsh vocals!

Subrick, if you're referring to 'blood' (only song I googled from them) than you've given me one of the most abysmally surreal experiences i've heard in a while. It's that kind of feeling where your mouth literally hangs open in disbelief that something so vile could exist, and moreso that people would actually pay to see it; like when i watched the bratz live action movie online out of morbid curiosity. It's literally a metallic, super angsty lady gaga type song with annoying shouty vocals; where the verses are whining about a contradictory sex partner and the chorus is just her yelling blood and asking people to have sex with her. The imagery is a mix of gaga and madonna, there's literally one guitar riff, and just enough electronic influence to seem 'atmospheric' and 'dark' to all the kiddies (meh, I'm 22 so maybe I shouldn't use that term).

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Frank Booth
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:58 am 
 

Half of the new AtR sounds like any number of the shitty local bands in the Springfield area that they spawned, while the other half sounds exactly like another really bad thing to come from that area: Staind. Seriously, Phil sounds almost exactly like Aaron Lewis for a good portion of the album. Also, I hate AtR even more than I would normally hate a band like them, as Phil lives right in my area now and is widely known for being an awful person.

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Evangelion2014
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:21 am 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
Half of the new AtR sounds like any number of the shitty local bands in the Springfield area that they spawned, while the other half sounds exactly like another really bad thing to come from that area: Staind. Seriously, Phil sounds almost exactly like Aaron Lewis for a good portion of the album. Also, I hate AtR even more than I would normally hate a band like them, as Phil lives right in my area now and is widely known for being an awful person.


Ah, so they essentially broke big in their local scene, made one album, turned into a formula and made it poppier each time? 'Stand up' I can definitely hear the 'staind/insert shitty alternative hard rock grunge band here' influences; it's pretty much the tamest gothenburg style riffs chugging around behind the standard tough guy modern rock anthem that inanely has the simple message of 'we're famous and awesome, and you can't deny it and look where we came from so get out of the way!' that every shitty band has to have a song about.

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Frank Booth
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:39 am 
 

Yeah, I work as a promoter in my area as a side venture and occasionally do scouting shit in other areas, and the Springfield area is one of the most common. And jesus fucking christ, do the local acts suck. They all sound like TDWP, AtR, or AILD, they've got shittons of little scene fans, and they all think that they're going to go somewhere. At least most of the kids who play that shit are nice people, but still, it's not fucking '07 any more.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:08 pm 
 

Thankfully when I played with Sorrowseed this year we only had I think two or three shows that had shitty core bands on them. Most of the time we did shows with other extreme metal bands like Engorged from Worcester and Fenrismaw from New York, as well as an entire doom show at Ralph's with Dead Languages, Faces of Bayon, and Blacksoul Seraphim. The three shows we played with core bands were a show at the Palladium in April (although there were two excellent bands on the bill in the form of Terror Rising and Forevers' Fallen Grace, neither of which were brocore), a really shitty bar in the really, really shitty part of Worcester called The Raven in June, and a show at The Webster that happened one month ago yesterday.

We also wonderfully got the chance to play with Watain back in May at The Loft in Poughkeepsie. Their bassist got the girl who did our face paint sick, who then managed to get everyone in my band sick as well. Then we had to do a show in Providence 3 days later and we all felt, looked, and smelled like shit. Such is the beast of playing shows sometimes.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:21 am 
 

Going back to In This Moment for a second...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16kMFRjO-iM

After listening to this, we seriously need to round up a bunch of giant dudes to beat this band in the face with a tire iron Brokeback Mountain style.
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Evangelion2014
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:47 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
Going back to In This Moment for a second...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16kMFRjO-iM

After listening to this, we seriously need to round up a bunch of giant dudes to beat this band in the face with a tire iron Brokeback Mountain style.


Subrick... why? I was reading bastard head's review of masterpiece, and i remember my phase where i had to search for every bottom of the barrel power metal and I actually remembered stumbling across that band on youtube a few years ago and I was like 'hmm, bastard aren't you overreacting?' I google them, and while I'm in this whole process my room is pitch black, and I gave a first listen to sigh's 'in somniphobia' which was a trippy and awesome experience. Then the album finishes playing, and I youtube up masterpiece and it's like the aquaria turned japanese, had a talent and songwriting enema, and instead populated their album entirely of hugely fruity keyboard barf that overpowers everything but the vocalist who is like the lethargic version of Yama-b form galneryus. Then I open this, and it's literally two tabs full of complete musical shit. :P

Ugh, the opening title screen (which was obviously made with windows movie maker or some shit) reveals at least some of that fucking video imposes itself on the viewer saying 'add maria brink obsession on facebook' which actually is a great metaphor for the band itself (sadly, the circle jerk on facebook has 1600 fans, and the top comment of the youtube video is 'no maria, i want to fuck YOU like an animal. Objectification, awesome >_>). I'll get to that in a second, but that pretty much confirms our suspicion that the at least some of the fanbase are just drooling metalcore kiddies that cream themelves over a woman in a metalcore band. Really, a facebook page obsessing over a gimmick vocalist that doens't merit any attention? I mean, speaking of that sigh album i listened to, the woman there is a doctor of physics, she plays sax AND does vocals for the band. But nobody knows who the fuck sigh is cause she isn't a promotion gimmick.

Onto the actual video, I've never listened to much NIN so i'm not really qualified to rant about this, but I've liked that song and have been meaning to check them out eventually. I can appreciate the originals, neurotic, lusty vocal dynamics, airy, thin mechanical production and nuanced chorus and verse. Listening to this cover, I can describe the difference between the two bands in one sentence. FUCKING SUBTLETY. The production is lifeless and claustrophobic while at the same time feeling to large for the speakers; the guitar work just acts as a flourish for the vocals... and the fucking vocals. I mean, in a technical sense she isn't the worst singer ever, but her delivery is just fucking painful. She doesn't get dynamics, and every once of her voice is strained to constantly remind the listener that 'HEY THIS IS A REALLY HOT SEXY CHICK THAT HAS BALLLZ CAUSE SHE'S TOTALLY METHUL'. Yes, we understand maria, you are a woman, now you can stop raining awful embelishments on every single phrase. It's either that layered, overproduced 'sexy' pop croon with enough bass in it to establish 'this is a WOMAN not no GIRL', or toneless shouting that is 'aggressive' to the fanbase and establishes 'WATCH OUT, THIS CHICK HAS 'TUDE!'. Because this is essentially a pop cover (of an industrial song, by a purportedly metal band... that's a mouthful), the vocals are the only thing i need to focus on. Serioously, she annoys the shit out of me more than that lady from hailstorm, because she has the most pompus, overblown, overbearing and self indulgent style of singing that tells you how 'sexy/hot/operatic/fierce' (yeah no...) she is rather than fucking SHOWING YOU.

Bottom line, this band is seriously one of the shittiest gimmicks to exist in recent memory, and another brick in the wall added to the uphill climb of women in metal getting noticed for anything but sex appeal.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:01 am 
 

I don't know if this is true or not (heard it from a dude at a Suffocation show), but there was apparently an incident with Elizabeth Schall when Dreaming Dead were on the Nile tour back in early 2010; some asshole apparently kept shouting shit like "SHOW US YOUR TITS" and "GET THE FUCK BACK IN THE KITCHEN" whenever there was a spare moment. Anyways, Schall had apparently tuned this dude out for most of the night, but I guess she reached her breaking point near the end of their set, when the dude shouted something along the lines of "NO ONE CARES, YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNT! GET OFF THE FUCKIN' STAGE", to which she replied "Hey, to the dipshit in the Despised Icon shirt with the gauges... is that all you showed up for? Did you spend twenty or so dollars just to show how much of a fuckin' asshole you are? That's fuckin' sad, man. Shut the fuck up or leave.", which prompted even more abuse and a veiled threat. Cue a sudden flash of movement from Schall, followed by the dude clutching his face. She had apparently grabbed an empty beer bottle and hurled it right at him, hitting him in the face; it wasn't clear what was causing it, but the dude had started bleeding heavily and decided to try and rush at the stage, which resulted in several large security guys physically dragging him out. No one bothered her for the rest of the night.

Again, I can't confirm or deny this (it does sound a little crazy), but considering the sheer amount of shit that non-mascot female metal musicians often get, it isn't entirely implausible.

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DarthVenom
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:04 am 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
I don't know if this is true or not (heard it from a dude at a Suffocation show), but there was apparently an incident with Elizabeth Schall when Dreaming Dead were on the Nile tour back in early 2010; some asshole apparently kept shouting shit like "SHOW US YOUR TITS" and "GET THE FUCK BACK IN THE KITCHEN" whenever there was a spare moment. Anyways, Schall had apparently tuned this dude out for most of the night, but I guess she reached her breaking point near the end of their set, when the dude shouted something along the lines of "NO ONE CARES, YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNT! GET OFF THE FUCKIN' STAGE", to which she replied "Hey, to the dipshit in the Despised Icon shirt with the gauges... is that all you showed up for? Did you spend twenty or so dollars just to show how much of a fuckin' asshole you are? That's fuckin' sad, man. Shut the fuck up or leave.", which prompted even more abuse and a veiled threat. Cue a sudden flash of movement from Schall, followed by the dude clutching his face. She had apparently grabbed an empty beer bottle and hurled it right at him, hitting him in the face; it wasn't clear what was causing it, but the dude had started bleeding heavily and decided to try and rush at the stage, which resulted in several large security guys physically dragging him out. No one bothered her for the rest of the night.

Again, I can't confirm or deny this (it does sound a little crazy), but considering the sheer amount of shit that non-mascot female metal musicians often get, it isn't entirely implausible.


Whether or not this is true, sometimes it's just satisfying to read or hear about douchebags facing real consequences for their behavior. Maybe they'll actually learn something from it, but maybe I'm just being too optimistic.

Edit: I should clarify that I'm not saying that throwing beer bottles is a catch-all solution to life's problems, but if this story is true (and heck, things in that ballpark have happened; just look up some of Bruce Dickinson's on-stage rants at hecklers, or Blaze Bayley's infamous "kill him!" rant), then that guy was clearly intent on pushing things past the breaking point, so while I don't advocate violence as the go-to method for solving problems, some people seem incapable of learning on their own that actions have consequences, so if it's true I'm not going to lose any sleep over his broken face.

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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:16 pm 
 

I've seen it said that Elizabeth Schall is an incredibly cool person but she has practically zero patience for being hit on, which I don't really blame her because as we've established, metal can attract some seriously intoxicated, misogynist dickpumps. I don't find the story implausible because A) Some people really are massive cunts like that, B) Everybody has their breaking point, and C) She's simply a fuckin' badass.

Also, that video was the first time I'd ever listened to In This Moment. I remember I did a Century Media/Nuclear Blast T-shirt grab bag a few years ago. Of the five, I got four good bands (Rhapsody, Immortal, Malevolent Creation, and Pain (okay the last one is just kinda good)) and In This Moment. I'd never heard them, but I knew the style of music they played and that they were one of those who reeeeeally pushed the whole WE HAVE A SEXY SINGER gimmick, so I offered it to my brother. His taste doesn't line up with mine entirely, but he figured whatever, it's a free shirt. Three minutes later he enters my room and throws the shirt on the ground. I ask what was up and he says "I just Youtubed them. It was only one song, but it was the worst fucking song I ever heard. No way am I going to advertise this shit on my chest". I just high fived him. The shirt has since been converted into a place for my cats to sleep.

The point is that I understand what my brother meant now. Holy crap that was bad, I didn't get more than a minute into the song (It was called "Prayer" or something, I'm not going back to check).
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Ribos
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:48 pm 
 

Dreaming Dead is a cool band, and Elizabeth Schall is a really cool person. I know the band name is a Lovecraft reference, but I was still surprised to learn she hadn't heard Ripping Corpse's similarly named album. DD is more melodic, but the angular sensibilities aren't too different between the two bands.

And when I say Schall is one of the best death metal guitarists, there is no veiled "for a woman." She can play circles around everyone but the most virtuosic guitarists.

Now, to tie it back in with Som and Cerebral Bore, she was competant, but nothing special. I think the band is slightly above average, but Som's vocals had absolutely nothing to do with that. As others have said, I didn't know her gender at first listen, but it honestly makes no difference. My reaction was akin to learning a musician is left-handed. So unless she wrote a large portion of the band's material, I do not care at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:20 pm 
 

I remember a journalist asking if the other band-members were concerned with Som's gender, to which they replied that their only concern was her youth (she was 19 at the time of the interview). I think maybe they were worried that because Som was young and inexperienced, that she might not take to the road weary life too well, that she might cave, bail, get agitated with misogynist hecklers that an older woman would know better than to give a shit about. Som may regret this brash decision later, but I'm waiting to see just what the hell happened. Nice to know there's others here who played the Turok game the band's namesake comes from, I'm suprised no one's stolen Chronosceptor yet. Most fans I've met are just fond of the game, but everyone in Arkansas has a target on their thumb.
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OnwardToGolgotha
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:21 pm 
 

No great loss. She is one of the multitude of pig-squealing brutal death vocalists who all sound pretty much exactly the same. Cerebral Bore will be shit, regardless of who is singing, until they learn how to write music that isn't boring.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:20 pm 
 

Ribos wrote:
And when I say Schall is one of the best death metal guitarists, there is no veiled "for a woman." She can play circles around everyone but the most virtuosic guitarists.

How the hell did you come up wit this?? It's not just an opinion, it's plain wrong!
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:59 am 
 

Except that Liz is actually really fucking good. Just listen to either Dreaming Dead album or the Manslaughter EP.
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Veracs
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:26 am 
 

Yeah, she defeats William Tsamis, Eric Friesen, Terrence Hobbes, and other legions of classical/proficient guitarists, whatever man . Dreaming Dead make boring American derived Gothenburg toilet metal with blastbeats, and they got popular for the very reason so many have listed and that's based on "Ooh, we've got a female vocalist". They suck

Anyhow, I want to know where we get this bizarre notion of women being effeminate and mistreated in metal. There are plenty of women who can hold their own with fellas, the lady from Bolt thrower, the lady from Holy Moses, and the lady from Runemagick all play as well and hold their own with men. Who cares their women why elevate them to any status aside from their sex, the only bemoaning of their status is from the guys in this thread. I've been to plenty of shows and the women are in the pit with the men, alongside the men headbanging, and generally just acting as any concertgoer. You guys are creating boogie men on top of it and for a music that supposedly prides itself on strength and character, are reducing women who front bands, play instruments in bands, to passive weak marionettes that "poor neanderthal men" pick on.
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Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

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Evangelion2014
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 am
Posts: 436
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:01 am 
 

Veracs wrote:
Yeah, she defeats William Tsamis, Eric Friesen, Terrence Hobbes, and other legions of classical/proficient guitarists, whatever man . Dreaming Dead make boring American derived Gothenburg toilet metal with blastbeats, and they got popular for the very reason so many have listed and that's based on "Ooh, we've got a female vocalist". They suck

Anyhow, I want to know where we get this bizarre notion of women being effeminate and mistreated in metal. There are plenty of women who can hold their own with fellas, the lady from Bolt thrower, the lady from Holy Moses, and the lady from Runemagick all play as well and hold their own with men. Who cares their women why elevate them to any status aside from their sex, the only bemoaning of their status is from the guys in this thread. I've been to plenty of shows and the women are in the pit with the men, alongside the men headbanging, and generally just acting as any concertgoer. You guys are creating boogie men on top of it and for a music that supposedly prides itself on strength and character, are reducing women who front bands, play instruments in bands, to passive weak marionettes that "poor neanderthal men" pick on.


We're not saying this is true in all scenes, venues, or for all bands. But there are bands that get hyperinflated because they have 'sexy' mascot vocalists (In this moment/arch enemy etc.). On the other hand there is widespread sexism in society as a whole; and gender roles do play a part in defining metal and metal culture as a 'mens' world. 50% of the world's people are female roughly; yet start clicking the random band page. 99% of the bands on there will be a sausage fest. So, there has to be some kind of stratification and gender role dynamic keeping women from playing a larger part.

To say that there is sexism within metal is not picking on metal and creating a nice safe bubble free from crticism where the dainty womenfolk need to be coddled and patronized. Patriarchy permeates society as a whole, and especially in spheres which have been defined as 'male'; i.e. the workplace and in music; particularly metal music as the lyrical qualities of the genre have been defined by the culture as quintessentially 'male'. What feminism strives for is a world where the sexes are treated completely equally; that is where labels don't use women's bodies and sexuality as tools for popularity and where women band members are not judged by a different standard just because 'wow they got a chick!'. I'll say it, I hear nothing special in cerebral bore, and obviously that's not because I have preconceived notion because they have a female member; they're just the tamest, cleanest bdm band i've ever heard with average squealing type vocals. John phegeloton rips her to shreds in terms of vocal ability.

However, what makes sexism completely egregious is that that is exactly what that thought process does, it automatically defers different treatment based on the superficial fact that the person of reference is female. But sexism happens both when you have overt and hostile misogyny and when female members of bands become objectified or treated with kid gloves by metal fans because of how 'novel' or 'inspiring' the concept of a female band member is when the music itself doesn't bear that kind of recognition out. The former is called 'hostile' sexism, and the latter 'benevolent' sexism. To create an equal society, both have to be called out for what they are; otherwise patriarchy continues as people just pretend it doesn't exist and sweep it under the rug. Obviously, the goal is an equal society where there are no gender roles imposed on either men or women.

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Ribos
Radioactive Man

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:10 pm
Posts: 3020
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:10 am 
 

Veracs wrote:
Yeah, she defeats William Tsamis, Eric Friesen, Terrence Hobbes, and other legions of classical/proficient guitarists, whatever man . Dreaming Dead make boring American derived Gothenburg toilet metal with blastbeats, and they got popular for the very reason so many have listed and that's based on "Ooh, we've got a female vocalist".

I called Schall one of the best death metal guitarists, not one of the best guitarists in general. No, she's not hugely innovative, but her technical chops are a clear step above those of the majority of her contemporaries. She also has the good sense to not shove her skill in the listener's face, unlike the hordes of tech-death guitarists. But hey, if that's what you need to hear to determine skill, I can understand how you'd have trouble seeing it.
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Frank Booth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 234
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:14 pm 
 

I mean, part of the reason why the fact that a metal musician is female is often brought up even when they try to not call attention to it probably also stems from the fact that, once again, they have an uphill battle. They have to deal with asshole fans and douchebags who show up just to heckle them (while everyone has to deal with these, women definitely attract a larger-than-normal amount of the latter), the fear and very real possibility that they might be pushed into a mascot role to make a band more marketable, the possibility of bandmates making advances on them and creating a hostile environment, and the general "GROSS Club" atmosphere of metal, regardless of whether we like to admit it or not. Regardless of what someone says about it, women do not have it easy in metal.

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gunnerdeath
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:55 am
Posts: 100
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:31 am 
 

Kinda late but, anyone knows why their bassist left? I think the band (or anyone else) hasn't make an official statement about that.

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Awblaster
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:07 pm
Posts: 449
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:12 pm 
 

I heard from mates of the band that he was kicked out for being lazy.

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