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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
Posts: 1990
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:41 am 
 

MazeofTorment wrote:
Anyway, I suppose its a work in progress nonetheless. I've still made some progress - working out habits have been pretty good and so has my dieting overall. Its just a matter of facing the nemesis that is my drinking habit.


Cutting out drinking altogether can be very effective. One night of revelry can add up to an extra day's worth of calories in a week. If you drink like a Finn that is. And can be much more if you tend to drink sugary stuff. A lot of people also eat very badly on the day after. Swayze pretty much put everything in there though I'd throw in stuff like cottage cheese, quark and yoghurt, but then again, I come from a country where most grown-ups drink milk. All of these are non-fat with good to superb protein-to-carbohydrate rates. The protein is also mostly casein so helps in building muscle as well as keeping hunger at bay. Another plus is the low price though that might vary again, depending on the country. And finding non-fat, high protein quark/curd might not be as easy there as it is here.

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OneSizeFitzpatrick
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 779
Location: A smoldering ruin with wi-fi, Chechnya
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:03 pm 
 

I just do ups; sit ups, pull ups, push ups, on a daily basis and occasionally some scrawny ass free weights that gather dust in the basement... anybody have any other ideas for exercises I can do that don't involve spending money on shit or going somehwere other than my own home?
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Erdrickgr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:44 pm
Posts: 320
Location: PA, US
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:12 pm 
 

Calf Raises
Squats
Lunges
Dips

See other ones here...
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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 5878
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:17 pm 
 

Got a skateboard lying around?

Set it up and do push-ups on it, squats on it, and use it like the "luge" motion back and forth, with your knees on the ground or in the plank position. Adds the completely different dynamic of balance into your "ups and downs" and can really shred you up. Also, I recommend pilates or yoga occasionally. It costs nothing, you can get a million pose books from the library or online, and honestly, it got my stomach pretty much toned without much other exercises.
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MazeofTorment
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:06 pm
Posts: 2039
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:11 pm 
 

Yeah, MacMoney, its a pretty vicious cycle. The drinking itself is bad for you, empties your wallet, and usually makes you eat much worse either while drunk or the day after. Alas, the weekend is here, so I'll make another attempt to not drink at all, or at least, very little, which should prove tough tomorrow night especially since I'm going to see Morbid Angel, Grave, and Dark Funeral.
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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 5878
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:26 pm 
 

I dropped a lot of my weight whilst drinking/smoking. I never ate badly while drunk though. I also just run a balls-load.
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grauer_mausling
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1780
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:19 pm 
 

Slag wrote:
Also this thread has been dead to long. I want to hear what ya'll fitness guys are up to.


doing fine :D Since a few months I don't train at a gym/heakth studio anymore and only do exercises at home which works fine for me. I developed a routine which works fine for me and which keeps my back's problems still at bay (knock on wood). Additionally to being painfree I put up quite some "positive mass" (muscles). basically I train every second day (dumb- and barbell stuff along with these therabands which can be used for quite exhausting exercises) and rest the following day. Each training day focusses on a different muscle group. Also I still try to eat "good" (whatever that means) and try to get a dose of about 150 grams protein each day (lots of curd, turkey, tuna etc). My only problems are still sweets in all their forms, hehe, so my belly still is not what it could be. But I don't care that much about it. Eating sweets is more of a pleasure than having a visible sixpack ;) But with the rest of my body I'm quite pleased :D
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11991
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:04 pm 
 

My fitness regiment has taken a horrible fucking dive. Since May I've practically been out of town the entire time aside for a few days each month. I went from going to the gym twice around 2-3 hours a day 6 times a week to working out with a pair of 25lb and 50lb free weights and an exercise bike I recently bought. So those are helping but it's no where what i was doing and I'm not pleased in the least. i can't wait for this job up here to be completed to go back home and get back on track.
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metaldiscussor666
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:09 pm
Posts: 560
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:10 pm 
 

My gym was horrendous for running. It's too hot, you're packed together next to others, so you can't make a fart... I sweat very little when I run, but my shirt was soaked from the heat! The treadmill allows for only 30 minute long runs. Then it stops and you have to start it again. Way to encourage fitness, YMCA. To top it off there was this tub of a woman just walking on the treadmill in front of me, and it was giving me misanthropy.

I just wanted to avoid being outside in the rain! I ran 3 miles in 25 minutes on my first set, the next 3 miles, I took it easy and did 6 miles per hour - 10 minute miles.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2584
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:46 am 
 

MazeofTorment wrote:
Yeah, MacMoney, its a pretty vicious cycle. The drinking itself is bad for you, empties your wallet, and usually makes you eat much worse either while drunk or the day after. Alas, the weekend is here, so I'll make another attempt to not drink at all, or at least, very little, which should prove tough tomorrow night especially since I'm going to see Morbid Angel, Grave, and Dark Funeral.


Tell me about it. When I'm drunk or hungover, I always eat frightening amounts of Hokkien Noodles. It's yellow and white noodles fried in a generous serving of pork lard, topped with prawns, squid and bits of crispy lard. Oh my.
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BarryLamarBonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:36 pm
Posts: 227
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:02 am 
 

swayze wrote:
MazeofTorment wrote:
Anybody got any tips towards weight loss? I've been far from perfect(weekend drinking, the occasional terrible meal)


To the first question: consistency. I left the the second sentence there, because it's the problem (a lack of consistency). If you wanna drop weight, you can't drink on the weekend. It sounds harsh, but that's how it is. It's one or the other. I think a reward meal once a week is all good (in fact, I think a reward meal is better than not having one, because it keeps you sane), but drinking has got to go. Consistency is everything for someone who's serious about losing fat. Pick something and stick to it for a few months. There's no other sure-fire way. Once you get where you want to be, you can start drinking and see how much it affects you.

That said, nutrition is by far the most important aspect of losing weight, followed distantly by weight training. Cardio isn't very important for most people, though if one hates weight training and sports, it's gonna have to do.

For nutrition, if you want to really drop that shit, this is hardcore, but it works for EVERYONE:

- Generally drink only water. Exceptions can be coffee and tea, but in moderation, and without milk/sugar, etc. (This is huge - it takes away so many empty calories)
- Eat "above ground" veggies with meals 3x/day (above ground meaning no potatoes, sweet potatoes)
- No grains (no oats, no wheat, no rice, no quinoa, no amaranth, no buckwheat, no rye). If you really miss grains, try to only have them around workouts.
- No soy (fuck soy)
- Eat eggs, meat, poultry, and fish for protein and fat sources. (Ideally grass-fed/free-range... It makes a big difference, but can get expensive).
- Bolster meals with fat to keep calories high enough and prevent too much hunger (nuts, nut butters, oils (olive, coconut), avocado, coconut, pastured butter, fat from the aforementioned meat if it's pastured)
- Supplement with whey protein if meat is too expensive to eat all the time (it's inferior, but better than nothing)

Sample day would be something like breakfast (4 eggs with broccoli cooked in coconut oil), lunch (ground meat with zucchini, tomato, onion, and spices), snack around workout (shake with water, whey protein, frozen blueberries, half an avocado), dinner (salad made of lettuce, onion, tomato, cucumber, can of salmon, olive oil, crushed walnuts, vinegar). If you need more food than this, normally cooking that ground meat dish will make for two hearty meals, so you could eat both in one day.

Anyway, just some ideas. I'd rarely eat the same thing every day, but it works for people who prefer that kind of structure. You can get lots of variety by switching up spices and veggies; it completely changes the flavor of whatever you're eating. I actually eat like that almost all the time and I love it. I do eat carrots and a bit more fruit, and will occasionally have grains, but I'm maintaining weight as opposed to leaning out. Once you get where you want to be, you can play around a lot.


This post is the goods for weight loss. I put on 50 pounds after blowing up my ankle playing basketball last summer, and in 3 months since going primal I'm back down to a lean 230 pounds at 6'4".

An excellent pre-workout drink while eating like this is coffee with a slab of pastured butter.

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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2128
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:11 am 
 

I disagree with swayze on several points.

How is cardio not important for most people? It's actually a great way to lose weight, and a good cardiovascular fitness base is widely considered to be an important prerequisite for weight training.

Coffee isn't a good idea if you aim to workout a lot, since it's a diuretic and will make you piss away your body water. Dehydration = bad workout. Drink skimmed milk throughout the day instead if you can, and no need to buy whey.

Sweet potatoes are perfectly viable food for weight loss. And why no grains? Oats and wheat have great nutritional value, as do brown and wild rice.

5 meals (3 major, 2 snacks in between) are better than 3. This is a great way to control hunger and keep your blood sugar levels in check without going overboard on calories on your major meals.

In general, avoid fried foods and anything that's extremely dense in calories and poor in nutrients. Weight loss isn't as complicated and delicate as people make it out to be, it's really all just common sense.

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metaldiscussor666
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:09 pm
Posts: 560
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:35 pm 
 

I find a healthier alternative to milk or soy milk is almond milk. It's 60 calories per cup, has twice the calcium of regular milk, and half the calories of it's soy milk counterpart (depending on what soy milk you buy). I drink about 2 cups every morning so I don't ever have to worry about calcium.

Oatmeal is awesome. It's filled with fiber and whole grain and it keeps me full until lunch time. I eat it pretty much every morning. There's these awesome whole grain tortilla shells that my family gets that are only like 70 calories or something per tortilla and they have half of your daily need of fiber (although obviously full grown males need more than the 2000 calorie diet thing). They're rich with whole grain. They go great with some fresh turkey thrown in the microwave as a sandwich with some honey mustard for flavor.

What's wrong with sweet potatoes? I assume they're better vegetables than regular potatoes (which are just starch). There's like 200 calories in a large one, but I find they keep me full for a long time. I eat one every day for my daily vegetables.

A great thing for weight loss is greek yogurt. I have the chobani greek yogurt stuff and I eat like one third of a tub for a whole meal (about 500 calories) because it has no fat or carbohydrates and it's loaded with protein, also, it keeps you full.

My everyday diet pretty consistent. Oatmeal (every morning). A sweet potato for lunch or in between breakfast and lunch, along with a bowl of greek yogurt or a turkey sandwich, and an apple or banana at hour intervals throughout the day to keep me from being hungry. I eat plain egg white omelettes as a snack. Great for late at night, because the worst is when you're hungry at night and want to eat an entire meal. Do not do that. There is a reason they call it breakFAST. Because when you go to bed you're fasting, which means don't eat.

Exercise is pretty moderate for me. I also have about 6, 40 minute bike rides to and from school on pretty flat terrain, and then 2 official workouts per week which is just an hour long 6 mile run. It seems to work pretty well for me.
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swayze
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:10 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:03 pm 
 

BarryLamarBonds wrote:
I put on 50 pounds after blowing up my ankle playing basketball last summer, and in 3 months since going primal I'm back down to a lean 230 pounds at 6'4".


Fucking awesome, man! Yeah, it really is da shit.

kingnuuuur wrote:
How is cardio not important for most people? It's actually a great way to lose weight, and a good cardiovascular fitness base is widely considered to be an important prerequisite for weight training.


I didn't say it wasn't important in general. I said that, relative to nutrition and weight training, as far as fat loss goes, it's not really important, and there's not much argument here. It's just not a good way to lose weight, let alone a great one. Relying on cardio will force the body to catabolize muscle over time, and will actually slow down the metabolism. Weight training speeds up metabolism. In other words, doing a shit ton of cardio, then stopping and eating poorly can actually make you FATTER. Doing a bunch of weight training, then stopping and eating poorly will do so at a much slower rate. That said, eating poorly is just the worst for fat loss. Also, good cardiovascular fitness has NEVER been considered a prerequisite for weight training, and it's certainly not "widely considered" as such. The big prereqs for resistance training are (1) adequate range of motion in the joints (if your hamstrings are tight, you'll put your lower back into a stiff-legged deadlift, for example); and (2) adequate core conditioning (if your TVA is dysfunctional, you'll put your lower back into a squat, for example).

As for the other stuff, I don't want to get in a huge argument, but skim milk is garbage. Tubers and grains do have some nutritional value, but they're much more calorie-dense than low-starch veggies, which have similar levels of fiber, and more vitamins. An argument could be made for having them around exercise, but results would still pale in comparison to what I posted above.

I agree that for most people the whole "5-7 smaller meals" thing works well, but it's a bitch to follow every day. I personally prefer a smaller number of larger meals, because it's easier for my schedule. That said, eating frequently keeps one's metabolism burning food quickly and is good for curbing hunger, so if people find it works for them, I'm all for it. The bottom line is, no one is the same; different diets work differently for different people; and experimentation is key. The biggest teller is always the results.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4554
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:28 pm 
 

Anyone knows some good, fun and varied exercises to do at home for arm muscles? Right now I've been focusing on a simple pushup routine (4x15 pushups twice a day) but I'd like to do some more.

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orionparker
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 8:55 am
Posts: 172
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:44 pm 
 

I basically just run...like a bunch. Right now I'm bagging about 50 mile a week.

Other than that I do a few basic yoga stretches, sit-ups, push-ups, some planks...just simple body weight plyometrics. Nothing complicated.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4554
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:15 pm 
 

I've been thinking of running again too since I have vacation. Commiting myself is hard though. :lol:

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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:26 pm 
 

two weeks since I got back to lifting weights, feels good to be on the move again

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grauer_mausling
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1780
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:32 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
Anyone knows some good, fun and varied exercises to do at home for arm muscles? Right now I've been focusing on a simple pushup routine (4x15 pushups twice a day) but I'd like to do some more.


hmm, training just the arms.. sure you could do that but keep in mind that the percentage of the arm's muscles compared to other body parts is rather small. Just saying... For my personal arm training (also at home, btw) I use bar- and dumbbells as well as thera bands and two chairs. With such little equipment you have quite some various exercises to do. The thera band imo is a bit of underrated training "machine". You can use them very effectively and build up some very exhausting resistance with them. Chairs, of course, are great for dips (excellent arm exercise).

I'm a bit too lazy to list all the various routines but just google sth like "arm training at home" and you surely get some fitting results.

Oh, and keep in mind that muscles need time to rest and relax to get bigger/stronger. They grow not while training but afterwards when they are resting. Not sure however if this is neccessary if you just do some push ups...
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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2128
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:42 am 
 

swayze wrote:
I didn't say it wasn't important in general. I said that, relative to nutrition and weight training, as far as fat loss goes, it's not really important, and there's not much argument here. It's just not a good way to lose weight, let alone a great one. Relying on cardio will force the body to catabolize muscle over time, and will actually slow down the metabolism. Weight training speeds up metabolism. In other words, doing a shit ton of cardio, then stopping and eating poorly can actually make you FATTER. Doing a bunch of weight training, then stopping and eating poorly will do so at a much slower rate. That said, eating poorly is just the worst for fat loss.

Sounds like broscience bollocks to me. For starters, do you know how much muscle is lost after one hour of cardio? No, you don't, and neither do the people who preach it for that matter. All serious athletes do cardio in one form or another, that's a guarantee. If it truly is the catabolic muscle-burning annihilator that you (and myriad others) make it out to be, then they'd be all skinny with more fat than muscle. Obviously this is not the case, so something's wrong in that reasoning. What is certain though is that you're far more likely to lose muscle through poor nutrition and inadequate rest instead. Eating poorly after any exercise, regardless whether it's running or powerlifting your house, can be detrimental to your health.

swayze wrote:
Also, good cardiovascular fitness has NEVER been considered a prerequisite for weight training, and it's certainly not "widely considered" as such. The big prereqs for resistance training are (1) adequate range of motion in the joints (if your hamstrings are tight, you'll put your lower back into a stiff-legged deadlift, for example); and (2) adequate core conditioning (if your TVA is dysfunctional, you'll put your lower back into a squat, for example).

So let me ask you: why do all physicians recommend a good fitness base before starting intense anaerobic programs, like athletics training and weightlifting? Surely you must know something that they don't. Whatever. It's widely accepted that a good fitness base improves the body's ability to repair itself, whether it's from injuries like repeat microtrauma, tendonitis, strains, sprains, or fatigue from routine overexertion, all of which can and will occur in weightlifting.

swayze wrote:
As for the other stuff, I don't want to get in a huge argument, but skim milk is garbage.

I believe you.

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soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 647
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:30 am 
 

Yeah, I have a 4.5 mile route that I run on average 4 times / week. And I work in some sit ups & random curls/presses, etc. Mainly it's the running.

I really enjoy it. The weather has been warm all summer here, and into the fall as well. I'm kind of dreading the winter, because I will need to go back to the gym and the treadmills. But I will definitely do it.

I'm holding steady weight-wise, and basically eat what I want within reason. I try to keep it to a dull roar, incorporating salads, various lean meats, etc. It's working out pretty good. I used to be very much overweight and sedentary.

My biggest problem is drinking :). NOT GOOD.

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swayze
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:10 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:41 am 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
swayze wrote:
Also, good cardiovascular fitness has NEVER been considered a prerequisite for weight training, and it's certainly not "widely considered" as such. The big prereqs for resistance training are (1) adequate range of motion in the joints (if your hamstrings are tight, you'll put your lower back into a stiff-legged deadlift, for example); and (2) adequate core conditioning (if your TVA is dysfunctional, you'll put your lower back into a squat, for example).

So let me ask you: why do all physicians recommend a good fitness base before starting intense anaerobic programs, like athletics training and weightlifting? Surely you must know something that they don't.


I wasn't talking about intense anaerobic programs. That's an extreme end of the resistance training spectrum. Most people would start at the other end, working progressively into more advanced stuff. This builds a good fitness base, by the way, though I'm really not against going for a run.

In terms of both resistance training and cardiovascular work, doctors are concerned with heart conditions, chest pain, dizziness and fainting, bone and joint problems, and blood pressure. If all of these are good, they say go for it, unless it's a special case. Of course, they're not suggesting people do heavy squats or medicine ball slams, just like when they give someone the OK to go running, they're not intending for the person to go and do wind sprints.

kingnuuuur wrote:
swayze wrote:
I didn't say it wasn't important in general. I said that, relative to nutrition and weight training, as far as fat loss goes, it's not really important, and there's not much argument here. It's just not a good way to lose weight, let alone a great one. Relying on cardio will force the body to catabolize muscle over time, and will actually slow down the metabolism. Weight training speeds up metabolism. In other words, doing a shit ton of cardio, then stopping and eating poorly can actually make you FATTER. Doing a bunch of weight training, then stopping and eating poorly will do so at a much slower rate. That said, eating poorly is just the worst for fat loss.

Sounds like broscience bollocks to me. For starters, do you know how much muscle is lost after one hour of cardio? No, you don't, and neither do the people who preach it for that matter. All serious athletes do cardio in one form or another, that's a guarantee. If it truly is the catabolic muscle-burning annihilator that you (and myriad others) make it out to be, then they'd be all skinny with more fat than muscle. Obviously this is not the case, so something's wrong in that reasoning.

I should have clarified this bit. It's not that you'd get fatter while running regularly, it's that if you "fell off the wagon", in this case by quitting a nutrition plan and stopping running around the same time, over the next couple months you'd put on body fat at a faster rate than someone who fell off the wagon after having been doing resistance training and eating healthy.

I like running, and I'm not disputing that it's healthy. It is, and I see myself doing it more and more in the future. I'm just saying that for longer-term results with fat loss, eating lots of above-ground veggies, free-range meat and some fruit, and drinking just water works better than pretty much anything for a lot of people. For some people it might not work so well, and those people would likely need more carbohydrate and less fat and protein. Different things work for different people. If someone runs often, eats cereal, yogurt, and whole-wheat sandwiches all day, and they feel good, their health numbers are fine, and they're not putting on excess weight, then that's perfect. That's not most people though.

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Hymnofwolves
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:01 pm
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:04 pm 
 

For losing fat, the theory appears to be quite straight forward. You have an intake of energy and the combustion of energy. The ratio seems to be different for every person but energy that is left over will be stored (e.g in fat) and energy that is spend more than the intake will result in weight loss (not always fat tissue!). Literature suggests that weight loss purely by diet results not only in loss of fat tissue but also of non-fat tissue. So if you are not careful you will also loose muscle and bone weight.

Therefore you need to burn fat in order to only loose body fat. Of course a diet is invaluable, otherwise you eat it right back on.
The most efficient way to burn fat is through exercise. Depending on the intensity of the exercise we use different energy systems. For example when weight lifting close to the 1 RM, you would only use the ATP-PCr system so no fat at all would be involved.
In order to start burning up fat, the intensity should be low enough (<85% of the heart rate reserve). This calls for aerobic exercises with repetitive movements of large muscle groups, so think of running, biking, cross country skiing etc.

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Aetherial
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:14 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Estland
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:19 am 
 

I do lots of yoga, it accelerates metabolism and improves digestion...and I'm 105 pounds :-D
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Apteronotus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 851
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:13 pm 
 

I have spent the last couple months focusing mostly on dropping weight but my long term goal is lowering the time it takes me to run a 5k to under 18:00. Now that I have reached some interim goals I am trying to work out an effective schedule that includes running and lifting. Currently I alternate days between running or lifting, which is just temporary until my body get used to the strain. I am thinking I will increase my distance by about 10-20% a week until I get to about 45 miles a week, which will take a while because I am not going very far on my current runs. There is a nice hill nearby for speed workouts, probably a twice a week plan and taking those days off from lifting.

So far I have dropped around 20lbs/9kg and could stand to loose more but I am not feeling nearly as sluggish as I was when I first started to run again. Winter will be difficult because running in the snow always seems risky to me and I have read that treadmills are not the best for your form, any opinions here as to that? I don't like being on the treadmill because it is so damn boring but I also feel uncomfortable going fast on them because it feels so weird and like I might trip.
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soul_schizm
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 647
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:25 am 
 

My opinion is that the treadmill is a necessary evil in colder climates. I'm very afraid of the potential injury risk of running in icy/snowy conditions. I know people who do it, and one friend even urges me to continue running in the worst of conditions.

I can't do it. One slip on the ice -- we're talking potential ankle break, knee surgery. I know treadmills suck, but they are safer.

My 2 cents...

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metaldiscussor666
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Posts: 560
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:28 am 
 

Is it possible I need more fat in my diet? I control my intake to take care of things like protein, fruits vegetables, calcium, and fiber that I think I've been skipping out on things like fat. I eat normally around 2000 to 2500 calories a day (and I get within very narrow margins of the correct calorie intake (I've been counting calories since middle school). So, I had today,

-4 medium bananas as breakfast
for mid morning (around 10am)
-a large glass of almond milk (pretty much an entire days worth of calcium in one glass)
-a very small bowl of mixed lamb meat, chicken and sauteed vegetables
-A sweet potato for lunch; so far, besides the lamb and sauteed veggies this is only 1000 calories and probably not many from fat.
I never skip breakfast btw.

I ran 9 miles (as I did 2 other times this week) then had:
-a large bowl of non-fat natural greek yogurt (more calcium, and a day's worth of protein). Then,
-Another sweet potato and
-a wrap with more of that sauteed vegetables, lamb and chicken (the wrap is wheat and contains lots of fiber, about 50% of a 2000 calorie diet).

All together that is 2000 calories plus one and a half very small half dollar sized cookies I ate throughout the day as a snack.

So analyzing my intake, I realize that I lack very much fat in my diet and I'm not sure how I could incorporate more fat without losing all the other good nutrition. I eat very simple meals, and usually the best I can do is add some more cheese and less turkey to a turkey wrap sandwich. Like I said, sometimes I eat more than 2000 calories, but never more than 2500. Btw, I am 6 foot 4' and 160 pounds. Any suggestions?
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Last edited by metaldiscussor666 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Aetherial
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:11 am 
 

metaldiscussor666, eat nuts. Lot of fat and good for your health :thumbsup: And also fish! You can even buy those fish oil pills.
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Poisonfume
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:38 am 
 

What are your goals? I you're skinny and trying to bulk up, you need far more calories for your weight (use the harris benedict equation and add 259 to 500). Nuts and peanut butter are excellent like aetherial said, but I would personally recommend a homemade weight gainer shake:
500ml of milk
2 bananas
2 tablespoons of peanut butter
100g of oats

Blend that shit. Tweak the numbers so that one shake has at least 1000cals and as much protein/carbs/fat as you want. I only recommend this kind of shake because the impression I get from someone worrying he isn't getting enough fat is that he wants to get bigger. You need to remember that gaining weight is purely about a caloric surplus, not about fat intake. The thing about fat is that it had 9 cals per gram (I think, I may be remembering wrong) while protein and carbs have 4?
PS how much protein and the rest of your macronutrients are you taking in every day?)
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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:57 pm 
 

sooo, after doing more or less whole-bosy workouts for about 9 months starting in 2011, I started doing a three-split training programm for the last half year with the goal of building up mass. The first couple of months I had soem quite good results however since a few weeks now I couldn't make out anything "visible" and I don't really know why. My nutrition is also based on gaining weight with the right amount of carbs, protein etc. (done some research and set up some kind of nutrtion plan).

Does anybody here maybe have an idea what could be the reason for this "stagnation" building up more mass?

Here's a short overview of how I set up my traiining (not going into detail for the exercises as I switch between well-known ones like bench press, dips, french press, curls etc). Weights are chosen so that I just manage the 10 reps each set.

Day 1
some abs workout
3 diff. chest exercises (each for 3x10)
3 diff. trcieps exercises (each for 3x10)

Day 3
some abs workout
3 diff. lat exercises (each for 3x10)
3 diff. biceps exercises (each for 3x10)

Day 5
some abs workout
3 diff. legs exercises (each for 3x10)
3 diff. shoulder exercises (each for 3x10)

rest between each rep for 1-2 minutes
duration: roughly 60 minutes each training day

Alright, after seeing this - why has building up mass stopped since a few weeks? Is it maybe (the only thing I can think of atm) that I do not rest enough with 5-6 hours sleep each night or is my plan not chosen well enough?
Right now I think about switching to a 5 day's routine like this: Day 1 Chest, Day 2 Lats, Day 3 Arms, Day 4 Legs, Day 5 Shoulders, Day 6 & 7 nothing. But maybe that will be too much and won't have any mass gaining effect?

Thanks for your help in advance...
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metaldiscussor666
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Posts: 560
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:46 pm 
 

Poisonfume wrote:
What are your goals? I you're skinny and trying to bulk up, you need far more calories for your weight (use the harris benedict equation and add 259 to 500). Nuts and peanut butter are excellent like aetherial said, but I would personally recommend a homemade weight gainer shake:
500ml of milk
2 bananas
2 tablespoons of peanut butter
100g of oats

Blend that shit. Tweak the numbers so that one shake has at least 1000cals and as much protein/carbs/fat as you want. I only recommend this kind of shake because the impression I get from someone worrying he isn't getting enough fat is that he wants to get bigger. You need to remember that gaining weight is purely about a caloric surplus, not about fat intake. The thing about fat is that it had 9 cals per gram (I think, I may be remembering wrong) while protein and carbs have 4?
PS how much protein and the rest of your macronutrients are you taking in every day?)


I don't want to gain weight. I just want the recommended 600 calories from fat. I get less than half of that per day.

I'm pretty sure I'm taking in enough protein. I don't really count how much, but I add a little to each meal so I get a steady amount throughout the day. I eat foods like eggs (with the yolks), Greek yogurt, Turkey and stuff every day for my protein. Mainly the Greek yogurt, which I eat for breakfast and in between breakfast, lunch, dinner, and basically throughout the day. I have the two eggs for breakfast every morning and a turkey sandwich every day for dinner. I'm pretty sure I get enough protein.

I already get a lot of fruit, bananas being the main, next to apples. I try to eat the bananas more when I have them though, because they go overly ripe way sooner than apples.

I do snack on peanut butter a little, sometimes. I take like a spoonful or two (of the all natural chunky, grounded stuff) and I count it as like 120 calories.

I also get some oats. I eat like one pack of oatmeal as part of my breakfast every day. For the rest of my breakfast I eat a banana, a small bowl of yogurt, two eggs and a glass of almond milk.

I get about 750 calories for breakfast every morning, about 500 calories for lunch and dinner. I also have small meals between each meal (around 250 calories, like a sweat potato (I forgot to mention, I eat one sweat potato per day).

I generally get around 2500 a day. At least, that's how much I aim for. There have been days before when I get too hungry and end up eating 3000. That's not going to happen again. I've gained more control over my eating since I'm trying this new incremental meal plan. I like to count calories in increments of 120-250 so I get the most variety in my diet as possible. It's a relatively new technique that I figured out I like. It's been my diet for the past week and it's been working well. Eating 500 calories worth of one thing per meal wasn't working. Probably wasn't healthy either, which is also why I ended up eating the 3000 calories in one day sometimes. Which isn't horrible because I run so often that it probably didn't impact my weight or anything.

I may want to look into the amount of oats I need. I think I could probably use a lot more whole grain than I'm getting in the one half whole grain tortilla and one pack of high fiber oatmeal I eat per day.
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swayze
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:23 am 
 

grauer: For optimal results, I'd suggest totally changing up a program at least every 8 weeks and preferably every 3-6 weeks, depending on the length of each "mini-program". The body really does adapt to stress from workouts, so changing variables (exercise selection and sets and reps are good places to start) before too much adaptation is important. Without seeing your exercises, I'm not sure what body parts refer to which exercises, or where you're looking to gain mass. But generally, I'd suggest some heavier weights to shake things up a bit (pick a compound exercise to start each workout with for five sets of five reps, for example). Hopefully, you're doing the classic compound movements (squats, lunges, deadlifts, chinups, bench press, etc). and not relying on machines. And yeah, you need more rest for sure. Sleep is when you put on weight, not during workouts.

metaldiscussor666: Man, first off, calories aren't as important as you make them out to be. I haven't counted calories for years and it only makes life easier. We don't eat numbers. That said, "recommended 600 calories from fat" is a bit misleading. 2000 calorie diets are the mean; they don't work for everyone, and at 6'4, you should generally be eating more than 2000-2500 calories a day, and definitely not sweating about 3000 calories.

You don't eat enough protein. A couple eggs, some yogurt, and a few slices of deli meat is, like, 50g? And that's being very generous, and assuming you're loading the sandwich up with sliced turkey and eating huge bowls of yogurt. Your diet also lacks veggies, and variety, and fat. I don't want to sound judgmental man, but you could do a lot to improve it.

- 4 bananas (try two bananas, one apple, one cup berries spread throughout the day instead of in one sitting)
- small bowl of meat and veg (try making it a big bowl of meat and veg)
- 2 sweet potatoes, wrap (try other sources of carbohydrate, like rice, quinoa, barley, etc for variety and protein)
- pack of oats (I really suggest doing steel-cut or Scottish oatmeal over instant... It's so much better for you, tasty and hearty too)

Honestly, I'd really suggest freeing your mind from thinking as food as broken down into numbers to have a lot more fun with eating, and remembering that variety is the spice of life, and that eating lots of vegetables is really important.

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grauer_mausling
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1780
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:17 am 
 

@Swayze:

Thanks for the info about changing a programm. I didn't knew that it is really neccessary to do so and thought "only" adding more weights would be sufficient enough. So, to go a bit more into detail, here's a full list of my programm I did for the last months:

Day 1 - Chest & Triceps:
(4x30 various abs exercises)
3 x 10 bench press (chest)
3 x 10 incline bench press (chest)
3 x 10 flys (chest)
3 x 10 barbell french press (switching with 3 x 10 dumbbel french press each week) (triceps)
3 x 10 dumbbell triceps extension (switsching with 3 x 10 kick-backs each week) (triceps)
3 x dips till exhaustion (switching with 3 x 10 triceps theraband pulldowns each week) (triceps)

Day 3 - Lat & Biceps:
(4x30 various abs exercises)
3 x 10 pull-ups (lat)
3 x 10 alternating pull-ups (lat)
3 x 10 bent-over rows w/barbell (lat)
3 x 10 dumbbell hammer curls (biceps)
3 x 10 dumbbell concentration curls (biceps)
3 x 10 barbell curls (biceps)

Day 5 - Legs & Shoulders
(4x30 various abs exercises)
3 x 10 deadlifts (legs and back)
3 x 10 lunges w/dumbbells (legs)
3 x 10 squats (w/barbell) (legs)
3 x 10 side raises (shoulders)
3 x 10 alternating dumbell press while sitting (shoulders)
3 x 10 reverse flys (shoulders)

So, should I just look up for other exercises or should I completely switch the routines? As I posted above I think of splitting these 3 days up to a 5 days routine (one days for a certain bodypart with six exercises). However I'm not sure if I overtrain a bit then, leaving too few time to rest?
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swayze
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:10 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:15 pm 
 

grauer_mausling wrote:
Thanks for the info about changing a programm. I didn't knew that it is really neccessary to do so and thought "only" adding more weights would be sufficient enough. So, to go a bit more into detail, here's a full list of my programm I did for the last months...

So, should I just look up for other exercises or should I completely switch the routines? As I posted above I think of splitting these 3 days up to a 5 days routine (one days for a certain bodypart with six exercises). However I'm not sure if I overtrain a bit then, leaving too few time to rest?


First things first, it's always a good idea to put your most important or goal-oriented parts first in the week. Based on this, I'd assume chest is the body part you want the most improvement on... Is that correct? If not, it's a good idea in my opinion to put whatever you want the most improvement on first thing in the week. Sometimes people just put their best exercises first thing in the week... Better to do it last, as it's easier to do while fatigued.

That said, your exercise selection is good. What I'd change is the sets and reps, for sure, and also that leg day. The other variable you can change, which I hinted at earlier, is workout order. Your body adapts to timing as well as exercise, weight, and reps, so simply putting Back and Biceps day 1, Legs and Shoulders day 2, and Chest and Triceps day 3 can really spruce things up. Anyway, that leg day... Deadlifts, lunges, and squats one after the other like that is too much to be able to safely go hard on any of them. I'd put deadlifts and squats on different days. It sometimes pays to think of deadlifts as a back exercise as opposed to a leg one. Really, deadlifts are a "posterior chain" exercise: a compound movement that works everything from head to toe on the back-side of the body. It's also a good idea to arrange your exercises in order of energy/stress demand. Put the hardest shit first, and the easier shit last. Lastly, I would strongly discourage you from doing abs at the start of your workouts, especially on leg day. Aha! Abs are your priority, eh? That's why they're first? I'm taking a guess, but... if I'm right, you must remember: abs come from nutrition, not exercise. That's not totally fair, as you'd have a bit of a wimpy core if you did no core exercises at all, but really, the core gets enough action from squats to look great... It all comes down to diet.

Last thing, just some food for thought, it's so, so key to remember that just as we can break food down into a bunch of numbers, we can break the body up into parts. But food isn't numbers, and the body isn't parts. It's WE who simplistically break the body down into chest, shoulders, back, biceps, triceps, legs, and abs, but that's not how the body works. That's just what we do in school to memorize everything. It's like how the lines we draw between countries aren't actually there. Base your workouts on movements, not body parts, and you will progress so much faster and more functionally. I'm not totally shitting on the bodybuilding approach; hypertrophy like that has its place. But the more you can think of your body as one unit, the better.

I'll be happy to help you tweak that workout, but if you could respond with your goals, your priorities, that would help. Also, I'd suggest four workouts for you, if you can swing it.

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Poisonfume
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:09 am 
 

@Grauer, how has training muscle groups once per week worked for you? I personally am an advocate of upper/lower splits (and training each group twice a week), I just feel my muscles don't need a whole week's worth of rest. I ask because I am considering switching in a couple of months time to see how my body responds to it. That said, I can't entirely get behind your program.

@Swayze: What are you talking about? Calories ARE a big deal. I'll agree that the exact macronutrient division (what is it, 50/30/10 or something like that?) is pointless as long as you're getting enough protein and not too much fat, but you absolutely need to be taking in a caloric surplus to grow (at least at a decent rate). You don't need to count the calories to the decimal, but you need to count them nonetheless. I've been getting far better results ever since I started taking in roughly 500 calories in excess of my BMR.

Also, it IS true that you can forget abs if you're not watching your nutrition, they'll just be invisible under a layer of bodyfat. However, I feel like most sources make it sound like it has nothing at all to do with exercise. That's bullshit. You need to train your abs for hypertrophy if you want them to grow, just like any other body part.
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grauer_mausling
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1780
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:01 am 
 

Thanks, Swayze, for that big bundle of information. It would be great if you could helptweaking my workout, so I'm going to answer some of your questions and maybe that gives you some hints were I could do better. :)

swayze wrote:
...if you could respond with your goals, your priorities, that would help...


well, my main goal is just getting a bigger upper bodypart, esp. arms and lats. I would say triceps and lats are my priority with chest and biceps follwoing after. But I also do know that the legs have the biggest percentage of muscle mass and that training those hard will benefit in terms of legs being trained releasing much more growth hormons than training just a small muscle group, right? And overall I didn't wan to have a big upper body and tiny legs ;) Anyway - big arms is what made me first start training and it is still my main goal. Not only a big biceps but overall big arms with triceps as the main focus.

swayze wrote:
Also, I'd suggest four workouts for you, if you can swing it.


hmm, don't know if I could do that due to work etc. Though physical fitness play a major role (now) in my free time, there are other things to be done, too. I guess sometimes I might be able to train for 4 days but 3 days is more realistic. Otherwise I would get frustrated if I miss the 4th unit. :/
edit: hmm, maybe I could do it when putting one training unit in the morning and the rest on three other days' evenings. Yes, I think that could work. :)

Poisonfume wrote:
@Grauer, how has training muscle groups once per week worked for you?


Well, at first it worked out quite good but as I posted above I now have the feeling of being a bit "stuck" and I think I also don't need a whole week of recovery (anymore). I think I will see it better if I culd compare it when doing another way of training for a few weeks.
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Poisonfume
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:30 am 
 

The way I see it, you need to really hit your muscles hard each session on a 4 day split to really excuse a whole week of recovery. And unless you're a very advanced lifter, that will be too much volume per day. It was for me at least... I overtrained massively. I just don't see the point now to do four exercises of three sets one right after the other specifically on triceps, for example. I've been seeing great results since I switched to a upper/lower split.
Here's my routine, if anyone's interested:

Day 1: Upper A

Bench Press
Chest Supported Rows (not bent over BB 'cause I'm hitting lower back tomorrow)
Incline DB Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand grip, 'cause I'm doing overhand w/ the pullups on Upper B)
Lateral Raises
Tricep Pressdowns
DB Curls
Flared Trap DB Lateral Raises

Day 2: Lower A

Romanian Deadlifts
Leg Press
Seated Leg Curls
Calf Raises (on the Leg Press machine)
Cable Crunches
Weighted Hanging Leg Raises
Weighted Exercise Ball Crunches
DB Side Bends

Day 3: Rest

Day 4: Upper B

Pull Ups (overhand, medium to wide grip)
BB Shoulder Press (I do this on a Smith machine)
Seated Cable Rows
DB Bench Press
DB Flyes
BB Curls
Skullcrushers
BB Shrugs

Day 5: Lower B

Squats
Split Squats
Laying Leg Curls
Calf Raises (again on Leg Press machine)
Weighted hanging twisted knee raises
Weighted decline sit-ups
Weighted decline abdominal reach

Day 6: Off
Day 7: Off

All exercises for 3 sets, 10-12 reps (though for some of the bigger compound exercises I use a 8-10 range).
I work out every muscle at least twice a week except obliques, which I work out only once (don't want to thicken my waste too much).
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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:26 pm 
 

looks good to me (though I'm not a pro in that ;) ). I will see what Swayze has for ideas for my plan and will then see which ones fit my personal needs. But training each group twice a week is possibly the way I will take.

edit: buy, yeah, 4 training days like you have them sounds very reasonable. Maybe I will switch from my usual 3x10 sets to 5x5 with add. weight
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swayze
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:57 pm 
 

grauer: If arms are your main focus, I'd give yourself a dedicated arms day. As has been mentioned, the arm muscles are relatively small, so they don't really need their own day to grow big, or even that much volume in training, but it allows you to put deadlifts on a different day than squats/lunges and pullups/rows. Plus, training arms is admittedly fun. That said, with an arms day, I suggest putting them last in the week. I know that contradicts what I was saying about prioritizing your biggest goals, but the arms are a bit of an exception because they're auxiliary movers in so many exercises; it's not the best idea to fatigue them right at the start of your week.

Honestly, working out three days a week and sleeping lots will get you better results than working out four days a week and sleeping too little, so I'm just gonna tweak your 3-day plan. It'd be easy to up it to 4 days if you find you can do it no prob.

With a dedicated arm day as your 3rd day, that means you'd have a chest+back day and a legs+shoulders day (you can swap muscle groups around, but this one works well enough). Since you've been starting with chest for months now, it's gotta go later in the week too. So that means day 1 is Legs+Shoulders, day 2 is Back+Chest, and day 3 is Arms. Notice that day 2 is Back+Chest, not Chest+Back, based on your goals (and that back tends to be more demanding for most people than chest).

Day 1 - Legs+Shoulders

Barbell Squat - 4x6-8 (stick with that for 4-8 weeks, then go to 5x5. By the way, I'm assuming you have perfect or near-perfect form on squats*)
Walking DB Lunge - 3x8 each foot (16 lunges total per set)
Leg Curl - 3x12+ (I like doing "Swiss Ball Leg Curls" lying on my back over machine, but to each his own)
Calf Raise - 3x10 (Standing calf machine if possible, also can do them at Leg Press station or body-weight with one leg at a time using full ROM)
Seated DB Shoulder Press - 3x8 (not alternating)
DB Lateral Raise - 3x10
Reverse Flye - 3x12
Core - Low abs - 3 sets (leg raises, reverse crunch, etc)

*Knees staying behind toes, knees staying aligned with ankles and not tracking inwards, able to keep torso from bending forward too much, maintaining neutral spine and curve maintained in lower back

Day 2 - Back+Chest

Wide-ish Overhand-grip Pullup - 3 sets of "one left in the tank"**
Narrow Underhand or Neutral-grip Pullup - 3 sets of "one left in the tank"
Overhand-grip Bent-Over Row - 3x8
Close-grip Cable Row - 3x12
Bench Press - 3x8
Pushups with Feet up on bench - 3x12 (good alternative to incline bench. This is as much a core exercise as chest, so be sure to keep a good plank - do them nice and slow, bodybuilder-style.)
Dips - 3 sets of "one left in the tank"
Core - Obliques - 3 sets of side planks

**That is, do the exercise with perfect form until you know you're one rep away from knowing your form will degrade and stop there

Day 3 - Deadlifts+Arms

Barbell Deadlift - 4x6 (Again, I'm assuming your deadlift form is bang-on; if it's not, don't go this heavy and work on form)
Lying Triceps Extension with Barbell (AKA Skullcrushers) - 3x8
Rope Pressdown - 3x12
Barbell Curl - 3x8
DB Hammer Curl - 3x10 (can do alternating DB Curl or Concentration Curls here instead)
DB Farmer's Walk - 3 sets of good grip (go heavy, put the weights down as soon as your grip wanes... Don't let it hang from your fingers)
Core - Low Abs - 3 sets of good form

There ya go; not really that much different from your current one really... But the order, sets, reps, and some exercises and have been swapped, and core is at the end of the workout, not the beginning. This is actually a bad-ass plan!

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swayze
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:11 pm 
 

Poisonfume wrote:
@Swayze: What are you talking about? Calories ARE a big deal. I'll agree that the exact macronutrient division (what is it, 50/30/10 or something like that?) is pointless as long as you're getting enough protein and not too much fat, but you absolutely need to be taking in a caloric surplus to grow (at least at a decent rate). You don't need to count the calories to the decimal, but you need to count them nonetheless. I've been getting far better results ever since I started taking in roughly 500 calories in excess of my BMR.

Also, it IS true that you can forget abs if you're not watching your nutrition, they'll just be invisible under a layer of bodyfat. However, I feel like most sources make it sound like it has nothing at all to do with exercise. That's bullshit. You need to train your abs for hypertrophy if you want them to grow, just like any other body part.


I said that calories aren't something to obsess over, and than it's more important to think of food in terms of food than numbers. "Exact macronutrient division", "enough protein", and "not too much fat" are ALL relative. There is no exact macronutrient ratio because everybody processes nutrition differently. Enough protein for one person is not enough for another. "Not too much fat" is too much for somebody and way too little for someone else. Some people lower their blood pressure and blood cholesterol, lose weight, and have more energy from high-fat, low-carb diets. Other people feel sluggish and shitty on the same plan. Of course you need to take in more calories than you burn if you want to gain weight, but counting them is unnecessary. If it works for you, that's great, but most people can get great results from diet and exercise without converting everything into numbers. Wanna get smaller? Eat healthy, and don't overeat. Wanna get bigger? Eat healthy, and eat a lot.

Your abs do need exercise to grow, truly; however, they get exercise through many, many exercises, from deadlifts to pushups, bent-over rows to woodchops, etc etc. People do not need to do crunches to have a nice six-pack is all I'm saying.

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