Well, looks like Kreator, Sodom, Destruction and Tankard are finally going to share a stage. Going by their recent releases Tankard is probably at the top of their game (how weird is that?):

http://beastival.com/?lang=en



I'll be surprised if this happens without any drama, seems like these guys just can't get along when it comes to these things, but I'd still really love to go of course.

So...anyone have a private jet? Helicopter?

More like the Big 3 plus Tankard. I'd rather see Holy Moses get a guernsey, but I'd love to see that show either way.

This is bad.
The font size is different for the bands, this is going to be full-scale war.

I know going into this argument is retarded, but there is a fuckton of better german bands to fit the last slot in the so called "Big Four"...

possibly in terms of !quality", however Tankard has a very high popularity status here in germany.

What are you talking about, Tankard are some of Germany's best thrash. I'd take them over Kreator and possibly Destruction. Sodom and Kreator sharing a stage would be a wetdream for me. Unfortunately the show in general doesn't seem to great.

Last FM plays are significantly against you.

Are there any other German thrash bands that could be considered for that 4th slot, or do Tankard claim it comfortably? The ones that come to mind for me are Mekong Delta, Rage and Angel Dust.

Tankard and Sodom are rather annoying live these days and all these bands released a lot of mediocre music lately. I won't go, even though it's much better than the American version of course. Let them all play old school sets and I'm all over this.

I saw Sodom in the last couple years and thought they put on a great show....how where they annoying when you saw them?

Rage are/were a thrash band? Could've fooled me!

I would presume, like an albeit probably better version of the USA's big-four, it's a matter of sales, not a matter for consideration at that sort of level.

Always considered Tankard to be absolutely horrible, however Kreator are on fire seeing how well their new stuff translates to the live environment, especially in tandem with the Coma/Extreme stuff. Destruction also slay, especially on the old stuff, which is more than I can say for Sodom. They screw up the early tunes pretty badly, the thing is that they fuck up everything else from Persecution Mania onwards as well. I'm seeing Kreator on Wednesday, wouldn't mind seeing Destruction on the same bill, the other two I could do without.

Very interesting. Is it an open-air festival?

Fucken Sodom is always worth seeing.

Bit of a shame that Deathrow are no more. Their first 3 albums are fantastic, especially Raging Steel and Deception Ignored. I think, had they still been together, they'd have fitted the bill slightly better than Tankard. Oh well!

Why's that? Sodom, Kreator and Destruction already have toured together a few years back, which was absolutely killer. They rotated the line up every night so everyone got to headline. Also Tom Angelripper and Gerre participated on the latest Destruction record. Seems to me they get along just fine. Would be sweet if they can bring together a full blown (european at least) tour.

Ah all right then. I was thinking back to the time(s?) when they tried before and it was usually Destruction I believe that seemed to have a problem with their slot or some other stipulation of the tour and pulled out.

Tankard is a great band, no idea how anyone could not find them enjoyable. Sure during their mid-period they had a few duds but they're in good form right now, much better than horrid shite like War & Pieces and Day Of Recdkoning. I don't care for anything Kreator has done after Renewal (That's right! I don't mind that album), but they're still great live. No idea about how good Sodom Or Destruction are in a live setting though.

And all arguments aside about whether or not they are the 'Big Four' or not, these are generally the first German thrash bands that one hears/gets into so that alone is what would make the show a memorable one and why people get excited about it.

I agree. If they were still around they'd fit this bill like a glove. Raging Steel is fucking excellent thrash!

Anyone who says Tankard doesn't belong here obviously hasn't experienced fucking stupendous albums like Chemical Invasion and (most important) The Morning After. Personally I'd take them over Sodom and Destruction. Hey, just an opinion guys!

P.S.: and for a silly 'personal fave' Big 4, it's Kreator, Tankard, Deathrow, and Mekong Delta for me.

Maybe I'm just tired of seeing Tom Angelripper trying to be an entertainer, I dunno... it all just seems so unauthentic to me. I also don't like his vocals anymore and the fact that he seems to see the band as his personal enterprise and it doesn't help if he keeps making overused jokes a la 'the next song is gonna be a quiet one' (it was already lame when I heard it at the last Tankard gig I attended)... I guess I just really don't like the guy.

About Tankard - they were really fun on their first few albums but then started repeating themselves over and over, getting lamer and lamer; also the fact that they apparently want to make every show a maniacal beer party is just trying way too hard. Demanding that the beverage stands hand out Freibier (für alle, sonst gibt's Krawalle) is just something that will never ever accomplish anything, and it sure as hell isn't funny.

About Kreator - they are actually enjoyable live, but their music is just... lacking since... Renewal I'd say. Cookie cutter thrash rock if you ask me - soulless entertainment on a professional level, much like Satyricon but not as terrible.

About Destruction - they are the only band I'd actually be looking forward to seeing but that's mainly because I only saw them once yet. I haven't heard any of their newer stuff so I'm not yet alienated as much as is the case with the other bands which I've also all seen live many times.

My God, that looks like a great festival. Too bad that it's right after MDF, and that I don't have a passport, and that I wouldn't be able to afford it even if I did.

I would love to go to this, but being in Australia, that's going to make it difficult. I don't care too much for Tankard, but having Sodom, Kreator, and Destruction on one stage would be absolutely stunning.

I hope it turns out to be as good of a show as we hope.

If they all played strictly 80's material it would be decent.

Although never quite as widespread or understood as the "Big Four", the term "Big Three of Teutonic Thrash" has been lying around for at least a decade, and all of a sudden one festival organizer decides to make it four by forcing Tankard into it. That's bullshit. When people try to change the "Big Four" formula, either by replacing Anthrax or by adding a fifth, they get laughed at.

The problem with Tankard these days... *sigh* is that it's hardly the same band (key songwriters left that boat long ago), and their new material is hardly thrash (they play melodic power/speed with harsh-ish vocals, à la 3 Inches of Blood, nowadays). So... not a great time to crown them with a distinction as a thrash band. They were one of Germany's finest thrash bands throughout the 80s and until 'The Meaning of Life' inclusive, of course. But "at the top of their game" right now? Not by any stretch of the imagination, no.


Rage never was thrash at all. Only one speed/thrash album was released under the Angel Dust name, a lifetime ago, and by an almost entirely different group of musicians from either of the two power metal bands who followed under that name. Mekong Delta... *sigh* yeah, I guess there's a lot of thrash to be found in between all the progressive, jazz and classical music, but was this ever-changing project ever a band per se, let alone one popular among thrash fans to a point comparable to the other three? I don't think so.

If hard-pressed to name who could be at the door of the Kreator club alongside Sodom and Destruction... *sigh* I'd say maybe Assassin, at least back in the day, and style wise.


+1!


Yeah, it's ridiculous, and not just for these 4 bands. Dark Tranquility at the bottom in a hardly decipherable font? Sabaton and Wintersun in enormous fonts at the top?

this is amazing, the most brutal (well maybe not tankard, but anyway) thrash bands from the 80s all togheter
great news for the thrasheads

The funny thing about mentioning Assassin is while The Upcoming Terror is a decent album, it's also quite American sounding.

I agree that front size stuff is dumb as hell.

I'm quite surprised that whilst discussing definitive German thrash, no one has mentioned Protector! Stylistically, they're very much in keeping with the others (Destruction, Sodom and Kreator) that is. Musically, they're closest to Sodom, although their very earliest stuff (read: pre-Golem) bares more than a passing resemblance to Kreator's Endless Pain.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting their inclusion in a "big four" as they're nowhere near as big as even Tankard. But as far as early, extreme thrash goes they're surprisingly overlooked.

Tankard are the Anthrax of european thrash LOL
Would love to see Sodom, Kreator and Destruction in one show ^^

Sodom and Destruction are better than Kreator, only because Mille's vocals suck. They should have let Ventor sing all the material.

The best Kreator releases are the ones with Ventor doing vocals.

I have to partially disagree on that: 'Extreme Aggressions' is my personal favorite (in a tie with PtK) and it's the first one Ventor didn't contribute any vocals to. But yeah, in general, Ventor's vocals were very cool and it was a really big plus to have them sing one song each, and sometimes team up on a track here and there. If Kreator's awesomeness could be summed up in one song, "Riot of Violence" would probably be it. Love Petrozza's vocals, though (more so than Ventor's overall).

Really? Assassin sounds American to you? To me it sounds very much in line with the early-Sodom/early-Destruction/Darkness school of "evil thrash", especially the vocals and riffing style. Granted, they're a bit more technical and perhaps take a tad more hints from Slayer or Dark Angel than the others, but still sound pretty German to my ears.

@ANA: Hold that thought on the Protector; I have yet to get around to exploring their discography outside of 'Leviathan's Desire'.

Ugh, I hate Ventor's caveman-grunting.

That was the only time I've ever known a musician to be yelled at by his own fans on his own forums.

Extreme Aggression is like Stained Class to me. Good music, but don't like the vocal tone/pitch.

Yeah i think The Upcoming Terror is more American than the German big three. Not as sloppy/dirty, or blackened.

The "Better 4" of American Thrash should tour next!
Testament
Overkill
Exodus
Death Angel

@lennon: Alright, we clearly have some different vocal preferences, then. As for TUT, I see where you're coming from, but it's not that strong a difference to my ears; still sounds much closer to 'Infernal Overkill' than to any classic Bay Area album. The term "blackened" applied in retrospect feels a bit weird, shouldn't it be "blackening"?

@truvelocity: Dude, that's not at all how you spell "Nuclear Assault"...

No.



Haha nerd! So they might be closer to speed metal than thrash metal. No one cares about the differences between speed and thrash anyway.

@Terri23: What album(s) by Rage do you have in mind when you say that?
I mean, they're clearly power metal, and used to be power/speed in their early days... but never the type of "speed" that can easily be confused with thrash in that manner. I mean it's early-Running Wild or early-Helloween speed, not Exciter speed. The differences are huge enough that you don't have to care, you can just tell.

It was their early stuff I had in mind. But yeah, you're right, it is closer to Running Wild or early Helloween. Don't let this derail the thread though.