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HakuchoCygnus
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:25 pm
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:46 am 
 

(A contentious topic, but I hope that it's okay to post this up here.)

It’s recently emerged that before they were to play at ‘Storms of Damnation’ on November 11th in Berlin, Germany; black/death metal bands Spearhead (UK) and Kill (Sweden) saw that their appearances had been canceled due to the intervention of the European anti-fascist organisation ANTIFA.

Supposedly imposed on the grounds of past involvement with nationalist socialist parties, the cancellation came soon after the event was moved from Slaughterhouse club to Blackland venue to avoid physical clashes from protesters. It was reported however, that this in itself didn’t prevent a wave from ongoing political and legal pressure from happening; this is said to have ultimately led to the aforementioned bands’ removal from the one-off festival, which followed the extreme metal fest Nuclear War Now! earlier this month in Berlin.


Read more over here, at Me(n)tal-Meltdown
http://metalmelt.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/antifa-v-metal-round/
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BasqueStorm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 1835
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:02 am 
 

HakuchoCygnus wrote:
It’s recently emerged that before they were to play at ‘Storms of Damnation’ on November 11th in Berlin, Germany; black/death metal bands Spearhead (UK) and Kill (Sweden) saw that their appearances had been canceled due to the intervention of the European anti-fascist organisation ANTIFA.

That sucks but it's a real problem. I don't really know what to think, sincerely.
I don't see right go against a musical statement (my view) but I understand that if you want to avoid those problems, you should have keep politics out of your band (ANTIFA's one).
Anyway, we're talking about ART, not politics! People is just stupid!
Why not guarantee freedom of speech and let the individuals think by themselves?!?
P.S: This happened to me when I tried to attend a Nokturnal Mortum show in my country. It sucked big balls!

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somefella
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2346
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:05 am 
 

Hey, it could be worse. Some government agency blocked Inquisition from playing Singapore probably due to the (totally lame) sesnitivity of people towards anything anti-religious(yet Marduk played without an issue, and Impiety is FROM Singapore).
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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5161
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:27 am 
 

The wordpress site is nothing but hot air. What would be arguments from the Antifa in this respect? None of the links show this ...

edit:
here are some links:
http://aufdiepelleruecken.blogsport.de/2012/11/10/prenzlauer-berg-rechtes-konzert-abgesagt/
http://aufdiepelleruecken.blogsport.de/2012/11/02/moabit-horna-und-kein-endewieder-rechte-veranstaltungen-im-slaughterhouse/
(all in German and with much more content)

If you play with fire, do not be surprised to be a scorched now and then.
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Analysis of band names:
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103987


Last edited by oneyoudontknow on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marag
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2473
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:28 am 
 

-Protest against fascism
-Act like fascists themselves

Good work boneheads, I'm sure beating people up for comitting thought crimes will make the world free of the evils of authoritarism

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Aszfargoth
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 8:16 am
Posts: 336
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:52 am 
 

oneyoudontknow wrote:
The wordpress site is nothing but hot air. What would be arguments from the Antifa in this respect? None of the links show this ...

edit:
here are some links:
http://aufdiepelleruecken.blogsport.de/2012/11/10/prenzlauer-berg-rechtes-konzert-abgesagt/
http://aufdiepelleruecken.blogsport.de/2012/11/02/moabit-horna-und-kein-endewieder-rechte-veranstaltungen-im-slaughterhouse/
(all in German and with much more content)

If you play with fire, do not be surprised to be a scorched now and then.


However, the Antifa (in Germany, at least) can scorch others quite easily, public officials (and public opinion) being quick to support them, and venues and promotors being quick to fold under even questionable allegations of rightwing extremism. I don't expect any leniency from the Antifa, everyone's the patriot of their own values, after all, but the balance of power definitely is in their favour, and the results of this advantage often are, in my opinion, unjust.


Last edited by Aszfargoth on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 4183
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:53 am 
 

Given my lack of skills at deciphering German and Google's Translator mistakes at translating such great bulks of text I can say that what I understood was this. Some anti-fascist organization didn't want some bands to play and as such researched whatever they could find and presented it as proof of the bands having connection to whatever form of xenophobia. Bands just wanted to play. Organization got the best of them.

With that being said, and as much as I want to sympathize with the bands, you all have to realize that this event was held in Germany. This is the country which bans album covers and replaces them with a black cover and band logo alone, this is the country that legally imposes that some songs can't be played live (Cannibal Corpse anyone?!) and this is also the country where fascism was at its highest point. So do I blame their political mentality in trying to keep any shred of political association outside? Can't say I do really.

Bands were just caught in the middle of political warfare actually, which is a shame, but when you get to be labelled or associated with an ill-seen scene than you know that may happen. To be honest this doesn't shock me as much as I thought it would as I can understand the argumentation on both sides.
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HakuchoCygnus
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:25 pm
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am 
 

Hi there

I didn't include any links from the ANTIFA in my original post, because I was struggling to find them. When I did come onto their official website, I couldn't find anything about the Storms of Damnation show or the aforementioned bands in my post.


Thanks for the German links though, I'll give them a look (after either running them through Google translate or asking a friend to decipher it for me, since I don't speak or read German).

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2Eagle333
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:24 am
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:00 am 
 

And nothing of worth has been lost to the world.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5161
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:05 pm 
 

Aszfargoth wrote:
However, the Antifa (in Germany, at least) can scorch others quite easily, public officials (and public opinion) being quick to support them, and venues and promotors being quick to fold under even questionable allegations of rightwing extremism. I don't expect any leniency from the Antifa, everyone's the patriot of their own values, after all, but the balance of power definitely is in their favour, and the results of this advantage often are, in my opinion, unjust.

Wow ... I do not know whether you follow the media in any kind of way over the last years, but to even dare to say that the balance of power in their favour, is absolutely ridiculous and far form the truth.

Just three letters:
NSU

Hardly has the political tendency to ignore right-wing tendencies ever been exposed on such a large scale. Other references are possible without much effort.
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September 2013:
the 23rd edition of my magazine has been released:
https://archive.org/details/ADeadSpotOfLightNumber23

Analysis of band names:
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103987

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Aszfargoth
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 8:16 am
Posts: 336
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:02 am 
 

Admittedly, I overstated the public support for the Antifa, and furthermore referred mainly to the situation in Western Germany (things are bound to be different in Eastern Germany). However, the NSU affair (why not rather mention the recently issued Extremismusklausel as a, in my opinion, more adequate refutation of my statement?) has only little to do with the events covered in this thread directly: pro-fascist structures within the German police force and intelligence service, as worrying as they are, aren't indicative of a lack of general support of leftist activities (or, more specifically, anti-nazi activities) by both public and public officials, because they are marginal, if in specific cases influential, structures.

This holds true especially, I believe, on a local and regional level, probably less so. Alas, the balance of power is in favour of the (radical) left on a constitutional level, overall enabling it to distribute information and establish structures more easily, goverment interferences notwithstanding - although I'll again admit that I initally unduly overstated the situation of support (there's certainly been a government backlash against leftwing politics in Germany during the current legislative period, I am not trying to deny this).

Then again, it's been quite an easy success for the Antifa, as it is most often in the matter of stopping concerts or similar events (especially, if it's a non-political event). Promoters and venues quickly fold under accusations of granting alleged rightwing extremist artists a stage. Although I've worded my initial post improperly, I am not convinced that this particular statement was wrong.


Last edited by Aszfargoth on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ceald Hraew
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:36 am
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:01 pm 
 

Four years ago members of Kroda were physically attacked by antifa. All they are doing is creating a divide, and eventually fans of NSBM bands and of falsely-accused-of-being-NSBM bands will start attacking crust bands or even metal bands with hippie lyrics.

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iAm
Wastelander

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:18 am
Posts: 5612
Location: Land of sin and debauchery, aka Reno Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:37 pm 
 

I certainly wouldn't want an NSBM band playing in my town. At all. There are far too many racist skins/ supremest assholes here that would take that message too far. Physically attacking anyone draws the line for me, but I would do everything in my power to not have the band in question play their show. Freedom of speech is fine and dandy until you begin preaching to an audience about how cool genocide is- which(rather lightly) is what NSBM is.

Ceald Hraew wrote:
All they are doing is creating a divide, and eventually fans of NSBM bands and of falsely-accused-of-being-NSBM bands will start attacking crust bands or even metal bands with hippie lyrics.


That doesn't happen already?
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matras
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 863
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:52 pm 
 

Ceald Hraew wrote:
Four years ago members of Kroda were physically attacked by antifa. All they are doing is creating a divide, and eventually fans of NSBM bands and of falsely-accused-of-being-NSBM bands will start attacking crust bands or even metal bands with hippie lyrics.


What's "hippie lyrics"? Have you ever read crust lyrics? Not very hippie I can asure you.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5161
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:39 pm 
 

Aszfargoth wrote:
Admittedly, I overstated the public support for the Antifa, and furthermore referred mainly to the situation in Western Germany (things are bound to be different in Eastern Germany). However, the NSU affair (why not rather mention the recently issued Extremismusklausel as a, in my opinion, more adequate refutation of my statement?) has only little to do with the events covered in this thread directly: pro-fascist structures within the German police force and intelligence service, as worrying as they are, aren't indicative of a lack of general support of leftist activities (or, more specifically, anti-nazi activities) by both public and public officials, because they are marginal, if in specific cases influential, structures.

This holds true especially, I believe, on a local and regional level, probably less so. Alas, the balance of power is in favour of the (radical) left on a constitutional level, overall enabling it to distribute information and establish structures more easily, goverment interferences notwithstanding - although I'll again admit that I initally unduly overstated the situation of support (there's certainly been a government backlash against leftwing politics in Germany during the current legislative period, I am not trying to deny this).

Then again, it's been quite an easy success for the Antifa, as it is most often in the matter of stopping concerts or similar events (especially, if it's a non-political event). Promoters and venues quickly fold under accusations of granting alleged rightwing extremist artists a stage. Although I've worded my initial post improperly, I am not convinced that this particular statement was wrong.

Things are different in EG that is true and on a lot of levels.

The leftist activities, like the protests against the NPD and such stuff, are a kind of theater that is celebrated, even though most people are aware of it and participate in it because they feel that they can do something good. The folks on the right wing spectrum have a closed mindset, which can hardly be penetrated something as simple as a demonstration.

the balance of power is in favour of the (radical) left on a constitutional level is simply not true. We do not have a left political party in Germany. Die Linke is where the SPD had been in the 90s, which means rather centrists with some left leanings. The politics in Germany are rather right-wing oriented and are right from the middle. It is anti-worker, pro-business, anti-immigrant, pro-war, support of strong and harsh austerity measures throughout Europe ... etc.

http://www.fes-gegen-rechtsextremismus.de/pdf_12/mitte-im-umbruch_www.pdf
This study does not show something new ... it just presents a continuous trend in Germany. There is a constant shift towards the right and left groups/organizations are marginalized. You can also see it in how Die Linke is portrayed in the media.
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September 2013:
the 23rd edition of my magazine has been released:
https://archive.org/details/ADeadSpotOfLightNumber23

Analysis of band names:
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103987

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Count Dirt Nap
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:05 pm
Posts: 87
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:44 pm 
 

matras wrote:
Ceald Hraew wrote:
Four years ago members of Kroda were physically attacked by antifa. All they are doing is creating a divide, and eventually fans of NSBM bands and of falsely-accused-of-being-NSBM bands will start attacking crust bands or even metal bands with hippie lyrics.


What's "hippie lyrics"? Have you ever read crust lyrics? Not very hippie I can asure you.

Probably supporting causes that are attributed to hippies and general concerns that only a hippie would care about. being pissed at the destruction of the environment, nuclear war, over consuming, nihilism, being generally pissed off, genocide, social and political injustice. You know, hippie shit. Shit that only a hippie would be concerned with. And nobody else should.


On topic, its dumb. Its on a quick path to anti-fascism fascism. Like the abyss stares into you or something

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Rotting_Christ_Mike
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:48 am
Posts: 837
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:50 pm 
 

Marag wrote:
-Protest against fascism
-Act like fascists themselves

Good work boneheads, I'm sure beating people up for comitting thought crimes will make the world free of the evils of authoritarism


This.
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John_Sunlight
Comrade!

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4569
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:19 pm 
 

When you associate your band with NS stuff you accept that you will be on some peoples' shitlist. This will bring the protesters a sense of accomplishment and bring the bands the elusive feeling of persecution they crave, so win-win.

Interesting facts and links, oneyoudontknow.
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 791
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:24 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
When you associate your band with NS stuff you accept that you will be on some peoples' shitlist. This will bring the protesters a sense of accomplishment and bring the bands the elusive feeling of persecution they crave, so win-win.


Cynical view but hey... it's true.
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The Poison
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:11 pm
Posts: 116
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:59 pm 
 

Marag wrote:
-Protest against fascism
-Act like fascists themselves

Good work boneheads, I'm sure beating people up for comitting thought crimes will make the world free of the evils of authoritarism

You're exactly right. That's my whole problem with the ANTIFA scene. You're either with them, or a fascist that needs to be exterminated. Pretty totalitarian for supposed free-thinkers.
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dystopia4
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 3371
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:11 am 
 

Antifa groups do often take things way over the top. Anyone else remember when they were attacking Agalloch and trying to make them look like immoral people for touring with Allerseelen (http://rosecityantifa.weebly.com/1/post ... sited.html)?

It's funny how they rally around freedom of speech and how essential it is, and then turn around and try to shut shows down because they disagree with the band's politics. I tried to post a comment on that anti-Agalloch page defending Agalloch, and they wouldn't approve my comment (this was a while ago). I din't outright attack their group, I was civil about it, I just offered a different opinion then them on the issue and pointed out that some of the things they were saying were a bit misleading. Did these free speech advocates who vehemently attack censorship in any form allow someone with different views to voice their opinion? Now imagine if they posted a dissenting opinion on, say, the Huffington Post and it wasn't accepted. They would cause a huge fuss about it.
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HakuchoCygnus
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:25 pm
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:25 pm 
 

Just because a band has members who are considered 'right wing' doesn't necessarily mean that the band whom they tour with support their politics (or even elect to tour with them - some are just lumped together by their managers, and may not exactly get along for the record). Winterfylleth's politics are often debated and questioned by many, so does this mean that Primordial and Hell are right-wing just for playing two shows together in the UK, or even hold right-wing sympathies?

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