I've been meaning to re-read Canticle for some time now. i first read it about eleven years ago, and at the time all the liturgical/pro-Catholic stuff rather put me off the book, though I was still rather into the writing, especially in the first part/story. That stuff botthers me a lot less these days, so it's probably time for another go...

Jonpo, awesome that you're enjoying The Blue World! I have that but it's one of the Vance books i haven't cracked into yet. There are a few still in my possession, which I'm saving for the right moment!

Recently read Angela Carter's The Infernal Desire Machines of Dr. HOffman. It was wild, uncomfortable and challenging at every turn. I can't even begin to describe it here and now, but perhaps I'll come back and talk about it when I'm a little less tense and scattered in my thought processes....

I love Canticle, it's one of my favorite books.

Friend of mine told me Vance sucks, should I believe him?

I'm eagerly anticipating my read of book 3. There were several interesting developments near the end of book 2 that will hopefully play out in awesome and unexpected ways.

I may go right into it once I'm done with that last 2/3rds of Fellowship of the Ring.

Most of his individual novels are really short reads. The Blue World for instance is like 190 pages. It wouldn't be difficult to find out.

He's not for everybody, certainly. And I didn't fall in love instantly, but once it clicked there was no turning back for me. I'm on a mission to read everything he's ever published. I'd recommend starting with The Dying Earth series or The Demon Princes series though, if you plan on giving him a shot.

I've never come across another writer who can so vividly bring to life a whole race/culture/planet of people, sometimes only using them for a paragraph or two before casting them off as if it were no big deal. His dialogue is usually subtly sardonic, and he has a serious serious love affair with sending characters on boat rides together where things tend to go wrong in very entertaining ways. He is one of the most wildly creative authors I've ever read, but he has a tendency to treat the main protagonists as vehicles to show you around whatever insane world he's building, meeting colorful side-characters along the way.

edit: Not to say that he's incapable of writing main characters that you can form an emotional attachment to. The Lyonesse trilogy had that.

I recently read Sphere and The Andromeda Strain by Michael Crichton, and they're great. Can anyone recommend me some good sci-fi, but like somewhat realistic sci-fi rather than fantasy sci-fi? Basically, something like the previous two books that I mentioned.

Arthur C. Clarke is good for hard scifi. Read Rendezvous with Rama.

Only Crichton I've read is Sphere, but I enjoyed it, especially the ending. What a mindfuck.

BY NO MEANS (lol) must you wait to read this shit JM! It's really short and punchy, not as much of an "adventurers" tale as a lot of Vance's stuff but I swear the ending tugged on my heart strings. Hugely entertaining.

Rendezvous with Rama was pretty good, though it was too much of a "what if" book for my tastes - i.e. "what if in the future a giant UFO flew through our solar system and humanity went to investigate?" Well, according to Arthur C Clarke, we'd send a bunch of very professional, very competent, very bland scientists to investigate and nothing at all would go horribly wrong. The ship itself is interesting, what with the unfolding mysteries and obstacles it presents, but there really isn't very much at all that happens. Nobody goes crazy, nobody has ulterior motives, even the guy in the weird cult-ish religion just does his job without making mistakes. Yeah, that's probably how it would play out in real life, but this is a novel, dammit! Where's the drama!?!

I agree it is overrated but it's such a short read I think it's worth it for the neat concepts about the alien craft. I had actually overlooked Clarke for many years and finally got around to Rendezvous with Rama a year or so ago. My biggest disappointment was how completely unimportant the characters were. They could have been anyone. They didn't matter to the story and I can't even remember much of anything about their personalities only a year out.

To pyroleprechaun, for somewhat realistic sci-fi you might want to try Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy. The first novel is quite good at conveying a sense of actual exploration by a small group trying to carve out a new society far from Earth and leaves most of the mumbo-jumbo at the door. For less out there stuff you might want to try something like Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon (more techno-thriller than sci-fi) or maybe some cyberpunk a la William Gibson.

Well, I agree that Rendezvous with Rama is worth reading, partially because it's short enough that it doesn't really have time to get boring, and partially because of historical importance. The funny thing is the most notable aspect of a character that I can remember is the captain's rather creepy, quasi-sexist musings about women and breasts in particular.

Thanks for the recs, I wrote them down and I'll see if the used book store I go to has them. I normally read non-fiction, but I'm trying to get into other stuff. Just finished The Talisman by Stephen King and liked it quite a bit, even though fantasy really isn't my thing

browsing through the last page or so i see some george rr martin fans. great reads the third book of asofai is my favorite of them all by far.

i just finished Forge of Darkness by steven erikson and was flat out blown away. His previous series the MALAZAN BOOK OF THE FALLEN is probably my favorite fantasty ever written. are there anyother malazan fans on m-a?

I meant to check it out, but I've heard discouraging things about it.

Read it a couple weeks back. What a ride, very special and, as you say, challenging. I think I mentioned it a page or two back, but I liked the way Carter treats the characters/societies Desiderio meets in the way she just lets go of them when they've played their role.

Biggest Malazan fan ever here. Reading Orb Sceptre Throne then moving on to Forge of Darkness.

Aha, yes, I didn't think of the connection at the time, but A Voyage to Arcturus is pretty much my favourite novel, or at least, the one that's likely the most special to me in all of my collection, and I do get the parallels here, with the manifestation's of desire in various forms and the glorification of pain exhibited by one character in particular, and of course, the entire "pilgrimage through a strange world" aspect, even though the strange world itself is supposed to be ours in Carter's book, though extremely mutated by Hoffman's experiments.

I found the book challenging because Carter really worked hard to push so many buttons, almost mercilessly so. She's a very strange woman; sometimes I feel I've really got a handle on her and her heavyhanded symbolism is at times in her short fiction even a little too much for me, but sometimes she becomes almost this anarchic force of destruction and glee, like in this book here. And I've almost never read such detached and casual descriptions of rape, pedophilia, bizarre sexual habits, etc.

Marcus Aurelius' Meditations makes for great reading. I was taken by how direct his writing is, and how much damned sense the man makes. This is having a big impact on me.

It's quite a relief after the rather bleak affair of reading Schopenhauer.

I'm a fan of his Meditations too. He was a sober ass dude, especially for the time. I guess it helps to have been educated in philosophy and critical thinking and whatnot, in whatever form those things existed back then.

Shit, I have a $20 library fine and I couldn't renew the Book of the New Sun, so I had to turn it in. Can't finish that shit until I pay the fine, and I'm broke. I was in the middle of Sword of the Lictor. God dammit. Guess I'll have to work on these two instead:

http://www.amazon.com/Loves-Executioner ... _1?ie=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Known-Jid ... ks&ie=UTF8

luckily, both are excellent books in their respective fields (psychology/creative non-fiction and Eastern "anti-philosophy" basically).

That Freedom from the Known book sounds really interesting.

forge of darkness was excellent some very lofty themes and concepts that made for some truely epic and sorrowful passages. i am actually moving on to orb septre throne as we speak.

who are your favorite malazan characters. i think the malazan book of the fallen rivals martin's a song of fire and ice. it is just as epic for sure

It's excellent. It's basically Zen Buddhism, but he tries to strip away ALL ritual, ALL metaphysics etc. He's against all forms of religion. His ultimate goal is to teach the reader how to live without abstractions and ideas and to just exist in the moment. He does a great job. I'd also recommend The Way of Zen by Alan Watts.

Just ordered both books. Thank you for the recommendations, sir. I've been interested in Zen for quite some time.

Hopefully Malazan is good, bought the second and third ones today. Probably a bad habit of mine, buying a bunch of books from epic fantasy series before I even touch the first one. But I love that kind of stuff and I'm not a super picky reader, so I'll probably be fine.

Working my way through Fellowship of the Ring now. Just read the part where they give up on Caradhras. I really like all the traveling parts, the world is really vivid. Some of it though, like the Counsel of Elrond and the fucking Hobbit songs are endless.

the first book of the malazan book of the fallen gardens of the moon is good but is probably the weakest book in the series but totaly nescerary to understand the series. the second book deadhouse gates is one of my favorite fantasy books ever written. once you have read the chain of dogs section you will the epic tradegy that erikson writes. i am a huge malazaan fanboy

Alright, so, I FINALLY finished The Kindly Ones, and GAWD DAMN. More or less floored by it. This novel just has it all. No, really, this book has it all.

Like when he goes into extreme detail about his assignments and goes pretty far into the Hungary situation when he suddenly stops and acknowledges how tedious and dull the story has been and why he's not sure why he's still going into so much detail. He then quickly summarizes the situation and moves the story forward. I found this to be very effective in giving me a feeling of authenticity because it felt very genuine, for I myself was finding the technical aspects of his telling to be rather excessive(after awhile, that is. Generally, its pretty cool). This is just one thing I'm picking out at random but it felt like the story was very real at that point, because its hard to imagine an author purposely being so pedantic over so many pages, but he did, and it ended up being a subtle masterstroke of sorts. It affirmed the characters voice a lot.

And ya know, aside from that rather particular detail, all the history, philosophy, fantasies, dreams, vulgarity, brutality, emotion- ugh, if the ultimate goal of a novel is to encapsulate the world, then this book very well might do just that. Throughout the book I felt intellectually intrigued, sad, disgusted, horrified, shocked, and incredibly moved by the humanity of it all.



Alright, that's enough. Brilliant novel. so glad I checked it out on a whim because some of you guys were talking about it. Especially because I've read so many of the "Classics" in the last couple years. Pretty sure this is literally the first modern book I've read and sure enough, it is itself going to be a CLASSIC.

So, I just finished "Atomized" by Michel Houellebecq. God damn, I think I found a writer who hates people just as much as I do hehe. I had been meaning to read this for quite some time after having read his book "H.P. Lovecraft: Against the world, against life". As an article on him I found said:

"Houellebecq (pronounced wellbeck) may be the only writer alive to have been accused of being a Stalinist anda Nazi, not to mention a sex maniac and a drunk. He is almost certainly the only writer to have fallen asleep while being interviewed on television. (The question was too long, he explained later.) His work has been described as racist, sexist, homophobic, reactionary, nihilistic, pornographic and repulsive, as well as moving, funny and prophetic. "

I read Houellebecq's "The Possibility of an Island" quite recently, and have been meaning to get into "Atomized"; honestly, I expected to be offended more than I was, though I tried to keep an open mind and not think of all the labels applied to his work. I enjoyed his style despite myself, in a way; once I got past the "hey, look at me, aren't I shocking you right now?" fireworks, which really don't seem like more than that, there were so many startlingly insightful and even poignant moments. I love being kept on my toes, asking myself what my reaction to each aspect means - why am I laughing at this? Why does this, in particular, outrage me?

This was quite a few pages back, but I have to respond:

"Anathem" is certainly a magnificent book, and probaly my favourite of Stephenson's; I still can't believe he pulled off that dizzying blend of philosophy and sci-fi. Those hymns and rites still stay in my memory as a marvellously inventive way of expanding on what is a wonderful world-creation feat anyway. While I really enjoyed "Snow Crash", I'd say that its style is quite different to that of "Anathem" - it's almost like they were written by different authors at points, though some of the background to the main action in "Snow Crash" shows a similar intellectual playfulness.

No kidding. What happens at the end of the Chain of Dogs section... just... damn. I actually had to put the book down, and that doesn't happen a lot. That was exactly when I knew I had to keep reading.

Anyway, back to Malazan. Reading Memories of Ice right now. A lot of fans tell me that's the best book in the series. And you know what? So far, I think they're right. Gruntle is awesome, Tool continues to be a whole lot of fun after Gardens of the Moon, and the Pannion Domin is making an amazing threat. The big question is, how much bigger and more epic can Erikson make the series? Let's find out. (Also, am I the only one who thinks the Malazan Book of the Fallen would be an awesome subject for a metal song?)

Can the second Thomas Covenant series be read without reading the first? Picked up a box set of the second series today at a library sale.

Ehhhhhh...probably, but I wouldn't. The first trilogy is a lot better honestly, though the second isn't awful by any means. It has a lot of good ideas but it's just kind of all over the place, and feels pretty meandering overall. It could've been cut into two books pretty easily, and gained a lot more punch that way too. Also, I found the new co-protagonist really annoying most of the time. It was entertaining enough but in the end I think the first trilogy is the only part of that series I'd ever re-read. Luckily it's pretty self-contained.

Also, word of warning: Lord Foul's Bane is necessary, but not very good. The rest of the first trilogy is better. I've never been able to get into the series, personally - I know Thomas is supposed to be unlikeable, but there's such a thing as your protagonist being too much of a jerk. It got annoying for me fast.

The third one is where it really all comes together. The plot threads get tied together very nicely, Covenant finally comes to terms with stuff, and Lord Foul's final defeat is very satisfying. I agree that he's portrayed as a jerk, but it makes a lot of sense really. Fantasy is full of regular people who get whisked off to fantasy worlds and immediately accept everything at face value, but Covenant has many, many reasons to doubt it's real. The major one being that

You havent finished the series yet? You are lucky i wish i was reading them for the first time again. Meeting all the characters, the epic tragedy of their plight and how it all evolves into one massive storey that just crushes most other fantasy i have read. each book of the malazan book of the fallen deserves it own album of metal songs. memories of ice is my second favorite of the series but i really enjoyed them all. Forge of darkness and the storey of the tiste is shaping up to be killer as well.

<i>Lord Foul's Bane</i> is excellent, not sure what's wrong with it. Introduction to the brilliance that is Covenant's character, plenty of action, plus is fucking fantastic. Foamfollower and Atiaran are both very interesting characters in their own way, and Donaldson's ability to weave together the worst dilemmas possible is genius. That said, I'm currently on the third book, so I can't comment on the second trilogy, although I plan to get into it after I finish the first trilogy. It's in my top 5 series ever, though. Seriously excellent stuff.

Even as far as I've got now, I can safely say it's better on a re-read. I re-read Gardens of the Moon in preparation for Memories of Ice, and there was so much stuff there that I missed the first time around. The fans are right when they say that.

Also, nearly finished MoI. After this, I'll probably be reading the next of my go-to "lighter" fantasy series, Jim Butcher's Codex Alera, and then do a re-read of Deadhouse Gates before reading House of Chains.

Just finished Fellowship of the Ring. There really is a lot of small differences from the film. Obviously they can't put every little detail in the film, but some of the choices were apparent. Some of the Company seemed to have a much smaller presence in the book, Legolas is probably the one that stuck out the most; and Aragorn wasn't even close to as brooding as I remember him being in the film, but it's been a long time since I've seen it so I may be wrong there. I could probably harp on all day about the little things, so I'll stop there. Overall I thought it was an excellent book. It was a little slow at times, especially when characters would go on about the history and lore of things, but good stuff.

On another Stephen R. Donaldson note, I picked up Lord Foul's Bane today at a used book store. Also got hardcover editions of two of his "Gap" series at the library sale. Don't think I have the first one, so I'll have to pick that up before I can start, but can't complain about two hardcovers for 1.75.

any one here read glen cook?

I've read all of Houllebecq's (translated) books at least once and I think The Possibility of an Island and The Elementary Particles are his most fully-realized works. The shock value is lost on me, and the overwhelming feeling I get from his writing is the poignant sadness of mortality and social isolation in a capitalist system that actively strips any non-fiscal value from human relations. His most recent novel, The Map & the Territory, seems like a deliberate attempt to respond to long-standing criticisms of his work (constant sex, shock value, etc.) and is an interesting read.

I just finished S. T. Joshi's The Weird Tale and found it very useful. Aside from Lovecraft my knowledge of the "genre" is limited, so the book has been a useful guide. I'm especially interested in Lord Dunsany, since Joshi describes Lovecraft's early fiction (which I adore) as a series of Dunsanian pastiches. Now I'm reading Walter Simmon's Voices of Stone and Steel: the Music of William Schuman, Vincent Persichetti, and Peter Mennin. After that I hope to start David Foster Wallace's Both Flesh and Not.

I know this may seem extremely edgy and 2grimdark4u, but anyone know any good "leftist" literature? Or maybe where to start with Nietzsche? Not so much that I follow these ideas but they are interesting, and stuff like this turned me onto it.

I'm just about finished with Book I, and I was struck by just how great of an adaptation of the film has been this far. It seems as if every change they made when writing the screenplay was a very good decision, both in terms of story and pacing. Can't wait to finish the book. It's been incredible so far.