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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:16 am 
 

Aids_ wrote:
Where does Van Canto fall in all of this?


That's what I was thinking. A capella "metal" with no instruments except for a drum. Hm. Still don't know why they are allowed on here.

EDIT: Well, almost a capella considering the inclusion of a drum automatically prevents it from being a capella.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:28 am 
 

Van Canto are a selected exception based on their place within the metal scene and listenership. Notice the absence of "metal" in their genre tag. They are not here because the staff considers them metal.

It's undeniable where that band gets their cues from, but they are a good example for something that is metal or metal-like structurally speaking, but not sound/instrument-wise and therefore missing that equally important part of what most people perceive as metal. I guess the real drumming helps, though. And I presume their blatant gimmick/formula gets them labelled as "a cappella metal" all the time. I don't really care for Van Canto, so I wouldn't know for sure.
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Pale_Pilgrim
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 882
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:25 pm 
 

I've been curious about this sort of thing as well. A friend and I are working on what I'd probably call a melodic black metal project with no drums. It got me wondering about metal-oriented bands without drums - are there any on MA? Thorns doesn't count 'cause the drum-less demo was released long before this site existed and he's done stuff since with drums. I remember reading a topic about it and many people just saying stuff like "why would anyone want black metal without drums?", "how would that work?", etc.

Would something black metal-oriented without drums be denied from MA? I don't mind either way, but this kind of subject itself interests me. Would it fall under Aakon Keetreh territory, in that it would be called "dark ambient" instead? Granted, Aakon Keetreh isn't quite the best example as it's not entirely metal-oriented and is only on MA by way of the side-project rule.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:09 am 
 

Pale_Pilgrim wrote:
Granted, Aakon Keetreh isn't quite the best example as it's not entirely metal-oriented and is only on MA by way of the side-project rule.

Not entirely correct. It's part of LLN, not a side-project.
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phillychease
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:30 pm
Posts: 119
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:43 pm 
 

This might be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJWOSGFMegw

I actually like them.

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Adriankat
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 2650
Location: San Jose, California
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:51 pm 
 

Pale_Pilgrim, I don't think drums are a requirement. Drums are completely absent from Sunn O))) and they're accepted.
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Bruce500
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:15 pm
Posts: 55
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:30 am 
 

Honestly, the way I see it, there isn't any real way to define if a band is metal based on instrumentation. I think it mostly relies on the mood of the music, the community, and the songwriting. As metalheads, we can usually tell what we consider metal or not, even if we don't have any actual set-in-stone rules for it.

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Cruciphage
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:41 am
Posts: 621
Location: Standing right behind you
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:24 pm 
 

Pale_Pilgrim wrote:
I've been curious about this sort of thing as well. A friend and I are working on what I'd probably call a melodic black metal project with no drums. It got me wondering about metal-oriented bands without drums - are there any on MA? Thorns doesn't count 'cause the drum-less demo was released long before this site existed and he's done stuff since with drums. I remember reading a topic about it and many people just saying stuff like "why would anyone want black metal without drums?", "how would that work?", etc.

Would something black metal-oriented without drums be denied from MA? I don't mind either way, but this kind of subject itself interests me. Would it fall under Aakon Keetreh territory, in that it would be called "dark ambient" instead? Granted, Aakon Keetreh isn't quite the best example as it's not entirely metal-oriented and is only on MA by way of the side-project rule.

Try the Blackness side from this awesome split. The only sample I could find is a brief clip which can found here. Go to the section marked "Qliphoth" and click on "Free Sample #1". The style of black metal may not be to everyone's taste, and that track definitely isn't the strongest of the three by Blackness, but I think it's a fine example of how the genre can function exceptionally without drums.
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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:49 pm 
 

Suppose a band used blast beat-style drumming, tremolo picking on their acoustic guitar(s), and shrieks... That sounds like it could work. Possibly acoustic black rock...?
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The Animator
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 281
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:59 am 
 

Well I would have said yes, until I searched for Botanist and the page is no longer in the archives. I guess the mods changed there mind.
I still say "I: The Suicide Tree / II: A Rose From the Dead" is black metal.

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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1626
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:34 am 
 

Sly93 wrote:
Aids_ wrote:
Where does Van Canto fall in all of this?


That's what I was thinking. A capella "metal" with no instruments except for a drum. Hm. Still don't know why they are allowed on here.

EDIT: Well, almost a capella considering the inclusion of a drum automatically prevents it from being a capella.

They also sometimes use amps with real distortion, just that they plug in a microphone instead of a guitar.

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5801
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:38 pm 
 

I have never heard of acoustic black metal. It sounds quite retarded.
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Big_Grand
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:59 pm
Posts: 432
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:46 pm 
 

we have neo-folk and psych-folk, I dont see why acoustic black metal wouldnt be accepted

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 8707
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:48 pm 
 

Big_Grand wrote:
we have neo-folk and psych-folk, I dont see why acoustic black metal wouldnt be accepted

I think that you should read the whole thread. If there's a neo folk project that isn't a valid side project, please let us know.
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:00 am 
 

Alright if anyone is looking for an objective definition it's as simple as metal riffs with a metal song structure, metal being a genre defined by its guitar work, this couldn't be more obvious.
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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:32 am 
 

Nhor wrote:
Alright if anyone is looking for an objective definition it's as simple as metal riffs with a metal song structure, metal being a genre defined by its guitar work, this couldn't be more obvious.


Well, obviously... but do you think that metal riffs could ever be played on any non-electric guitar? Acoustic guitar, dobro, even a banjo... Imagine how strange it would be...
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Erotetic
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:05 pm
Posts: 882
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:44 am 
 

Sly93 wrote:
Nhor wrote:
Alright if anyone is looking for an objective definition it's as simple as metal riffs with a metal song structure, metal being a genre defined by its guitar work, this couldn't be more obvious.


Well, obviously... but do you think that metal riffs could ever be played on any non-electric guitar? Acoustic guitar, dobro, even a banjo... Imagine how strange it would be...


did someone say black metal banjo? \m/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj_CwKxZMno#at=200
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:53 am 
 

Sly93 wrote:
Nhor wrote:
Alright if anyone is looking for an objective definition it's as simple as metal riffs with a metal song structure, metal being a genre defined by its guitar work, this couldn't be more obvious.


Well, obviously... but do you think that metal riffs could ever be played on any non-electric guitar? Acoustic guitar, dobro, even a banjo... Imagine how strange it would be...


When I plug my headphones into my pedal, and my sound is not amplified electronically, I am playing acoustically to anyone that may be watching me because I am the only one hearing the distortion.
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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:07 am 
 

Erotetic wrote:
did someone say black metal banjo? \m/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj_CwKxZMno#at=200


Alright, that was pretty fuckin' funny. I did not expect that whatsoever. :D However, those were more along the lines of bluegrass "riffs" than metal ones... :D
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Kahalachan
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 1:46 am
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:18 am 
 

Erotetic wrote:

did someone say black metal banjo? \m/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj_CwKxZMno#at=200


Hah hah that's awesome. For the longest time symphonic or atmospheric metal dominated my tastes, but I certainly do love folk metal or when metal interjects awesome little gems like this.

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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:48 am 
 

That band posted earlier playing in the woods don't sound particularly metal. I think if a band was to record some pretty heavy stuff that SOUNDED metal on acoustic guitars, the mods would probably accepted it - obviously I'm not going to speak for them, but I'd say it would probably be allowed.

Playing the same notes, with the same rhythm as a metal song on a non-traditionally metal instrument won't equal metal, but that doesn't mean that instrument couldn't be used in its own metal way.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4279
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:07 am 
 

I don't particularly feel like taking part in this discussion anymore, but you should all check out this youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs4ZyEuk2FY&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9t_-Uks4Y&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbEaydTkrAg&feature=plcp

By the way it doesn't feel right to me at all to call this classical or whatever else you might normally associate with pianos.
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Drahkarg
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Calgary, Alberta
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:02 pm 
 

I'm just gonna throw in my two cents here and say that a major part of metal is the distortion. While there are several other factors as previously mentioned (the riffs themselves, lyrical themes, etc), I don't think it would be suitable. Then again, I'm of the belief that quite a bit of what Opeth does isn't metal. Patterns in the Ivy II is one of my favorite songs, but I wouldn't call it metal.
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Fallen Soldier
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:40 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:26 pm 
 

I don't know. I've never submited any acoustic metal band in all my accounts. Try asking a moderator or something like that. Sorry i can't help :/

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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:38 pm 
 

Fallen Soldier wrote:
all my accounts.


Dude ... Why?
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