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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:12 pm 
 

Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
You guys are getting way to hung up on genre names.

MalignantThrone wrote:
when evaluating the legitimacy of a genre's name (which, by the way, is usually created by the fans, not the band, so placing the blame on them is rather unfair)


This is so very true, I'm quite sure that a lot of "metalcore" bands would rather be referred to as simply hard rock which is what they most closely resemble and there is nothing wrong with liking hard rock bands. I personally used to be a little ashamed to like bands that got thrown into the "core" suffix genres then I grew the fuck up and realized there is absolutely no shame in liking what you like no matter what some True Metal fuckhead says.


Genre names are very important so I don't see how anyone is getting "too* hung up." Actually, -core bands resemble Hardcore punk more than anything. What is a true metal fuckhead?
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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:13 pm 
 

Nhor wrote:
My "beef" as you call it is with these bands, whose target audience is teenagers that suffer from angst mind you, giving metal a bad name with their shenanigans.

Yeah, but how, exactly, does it give metal a "bad name"? Or, more specifically, to whom? It's not like the popular opinion on metal will suddenly improve once they realise that all those school shooters only liked "fake metal", or whatever. Hell, if anything, people will think of metal with even more disdain once they realise that the majority of it sounds like Deicide instead of Korn. The only people to whom it gives metal a bad name are the people who know enough about metal to know what it is and isn't, and at that point it shouldn't matter to you because you know the difference and no one else really cares.
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Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:21 pm 
 

I don't really like the term "mallcore" as it's a derogatory nickname for a genre instead of an accepted genre name. Glam rock/metal bands aren't labeled "Butt Rock" on this site, after all.

I digress, I've argued this point before. No sense in doing so again. However, I think "Nu-Metal" has always been a legitimate genre of rock.

That's not to say it's metal, though there are bands that have considerably more metal influence in their sound compared to others. Slipknot is more metal than Linkin Park. Soulfly is nowadays more metal than Slipknot.

So what if there are bands that call themselves metal when they clearly are not? Listen to what you like, it's all music. I like some nu-metal, some deathcore, metalcore, even alternative rock. I even like A Day To Remember. Catchy melodic shit. I still listen to Eiffel 65, which I liked most in the years before I got into metal. There is a portion of music from those old "pre-metal" days that is nu-metal, some of the first "heavy" bands I listened to were nu-metal when I checked out Korn, Papa Roach, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit. It was a Papa Roach song back in junior high that got me curious about heavy music. However, the thing is about those bands, none of them intrigued me to the point to listen to heavier bands. So Freak on a Leash was a song I liked when I was 14. Last Resort still brings back memories of that song being played at a junior high school dance and everyone started running in a circle which I retroactively realized was a mild circle pit. I have a nu-metal album that I consider one of my favorite albums of all time, and it's by a french act called AqME. The album is Sombres Efforts, sort of doomy, sort of grungy, dark for sure and rather raw in production. I've mentioned them before whenever the topic nu-metal came up as a good example of a band in my opinion that does the nu-metal shtick very well. Recent material by the band is heavier, somewhat going in a post-metal direction even. Not convincingly metal enough to be included on this site, but more than metal enough for my tastes.

Make fun of me if you want, may not be mature but I'm really not going to care. I listen to what I like, music that pleases my ears. It just happens to include a lot of metal with a dash of radio-oriented music from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s that bring about that feeling of nostalgia.

Besides, nu-metal, deathcore and other forms of music that may or may not actually be metal enough yet bands call themselves metal aren't going to change the sound of traditional metal. These bands will not kill metal. They might make a commercialized bastardized form of metal that much of the traditional fan-base of metal will not like, but it's not going to lead to the death of metal. Metal will always be around, it's a genre that rises up in the least likely of places. It's a genre that tells cultural norms to fuck off and every now and then a new fusion between metal and another genre that tells cultural norms to fuck off (i.e. punk) comes about. Metal will evolve and new genres will spawn, new sounds will emerge and some of these bands might not be considered metal, while others truly create a new form of metal that is still metal.
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:28 pm 
 

Alright I'm not exactly certain how to that selective quoting to break apart a small paragraph so I'm re writing everything at the moment.
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:32 pm 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
Nhor wrote:
Yeah, but how, exactly, does it give metal a "bad name"? Or, more specifically, to whom? It's not like the popular opinion on metal will suddenly improve once they realise that all those school shooters only liked "fake metal", or whatever. Hell, if anything, people will think of metal with even more disdain once they realise that the majority of it sounds like Deicide instead of Korn. The only people to whom it gives metal a bad name are the people who know enough about metal to know what it is and isn't, and at that point it shouldn't matter to you because you know the difference and no one else really cares.


1: It leads people to believe that nonsense is metal, which is disrespectful, and burdens my life as well as others when I have to go around pointing out the obvious all the time.

2: It is much easier to point out that Deicide is generic death metal and another boring rawr i ruve satan band and there are literally thousands of others to choose from, than have to go into detail about what defines each genre and why it's not metal.

3: I would rather everyone (at least everyone with an opinion on the matter) know the difference because then the bands in metal,that almost no one has heard of can get a big enough fan base to start touring and I can go to shows more frequently. Anyone that knows anything about music should take genres seriously; I'm sure if you used the same logic with food people would go apeshit.
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SladeCraven
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 1:51 pm
Posts: 390
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:58 pm 
 

Goatfangs wrote:
I don't really like the term "mallcore" as it's a derogatory nickname for a genre instead of an accepted genre name. Glam rock/metal bands aren't labeled "Butt Rock" on this site, after all.

I digress, I've argued this point before. No sense in doing so again. However, I think "Nu-Metal" has always been a legitimate genre of rock.

That's not to say it's metal, though there are bands that have considerably more metal influence in their sound compared to others. Slipknot is more metal than Linkin Park. Soulfly is nowadays more metal than Slipknot.

So what if there are bands that call themselves metal when they clearly are not? Listen to what you like, it's all music. I like some nu-metal, some deathcore, metalcore, even alternative rock. I even like A Day To Remember. Catchy melodic shit. I still listen to Eiffel 65, which I liked most in the years before I got into metal. There is a portion of music from those old "pre-metal" days that is nu-metal, some of the first "heavy" bands I listened to were nu-metal when I checked out Korn, Papa Roach, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit. It was a Papa Roach song back in junior high that got me curious about heavy music. However, the thing is about those bands, none of them intrigued me to the point to listen to heavier bands. So Freak on a Leash was a song I liked when I was 14. Last Resort still brings back memories of that song being played at a junior high school dance and everyone started running in a circle which I retroactively realized was a mild circle pit. I have a nu-metal album that I consider one of my favorite albums of all time, and it's by a french act called AqME. The album is Sombres Efforts, sort of doomy, sort of grungy, dark for sure and rather raw in production. I've mentioned them before whenever the topic nu-metal came up as a good example of a band in my opinion that does the nu-metal shtick very well. Recent material by the band is heavier, somewhat going in a post-metal direction even. Not convincingly metal enough to be included on this site, but more than metal enough for my tastes.

Make fun of me if you want, may not be mature but I'm really not going to care. I listen to what I like, music that pleases my ears. It just happens to include a lot of metal with a dash of radio-oriented music from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s that bring about that feeling of nostalgia.

Besides, nu-metal, deathcore and other forms of music that may or may not actually be metal enough yet bands call themselves metal aren't going to change the sound of traditional metal. These bands will not kill metal. They might make a commercialized bastardized form of metal that much of the traditional fan-base of metal will not like, but it's not going to lead to the death of metal. Metal will always be around, it's a genre that rises up in the least likely of places. It's a genre that tells cultural norms to fuck off and every now and then a new fusion between metal and another genre that tells cultural norms to fuck off (i.e. punk) comes about. Metal will evolve and new genres will spawn, new sounds will emerge and some of these bands might not be considered metal, while others truly create a new form of metal that is still metal.


Butt rock :nods: That's pretty funny.

I think this argument to be pretty sound. Well said.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 4515
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:59 pm 
 

So, Nhor, what you want is for every uninformed person in the world that happens to talk about music to know what metal is and how it's defined? Talk about being a metal crusader... Don't you think you're way over your head with that line of reasoning? I mean, is your life mission to have everyone know how to distinguish between metal and non-metal genres? Who cares about that?

A "true", and let me put true in quotation marks as to signal that I don't really give it the meaning intended for this reasoning anywhere else, but as I was saying, a "true" metal fan doesn't give two fucks about whoever talks whatever about metal. A "true" fan just wants to rock out with his cock out, see bands, buy merch, stage dive, headbang... You know, have fun! When you start being a metal crusader it kills the whole purpose because it stops being fun.

Also, how egotistical of you to want everyone to know and understand about something you praise without you having to take the trouble to explain it to them. You must have a lot of friends...
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:48 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
So, Nhor, what you want is for every uninformed person in the world that happens to talk about music to know what metal is and how it's defined? Talk about being a metal crusader... Don't you think you're way over your head with that line of reasoning? I mean, is your life mission to have everyone know how to distinguish between metal and non-metal genres? Who cares about that?

A "true", and let me put true in quotation marks as to signal that I don't really give it the meaning intended for this reasoning anywhere else, but as I was saying, a "true" metal fan doesn't give two fucks about whoever talks whatever about metal. A "true" fan just wants to rock out with his cock out, see bands, buy merch, stage dive, headbang... You know, have fun! When you start being a metal crusader it kills the whole purpose because it stops being fun.

Also, how egotistical of you to want everyone to know and understand about something you praise without you having to take the trouble to explain it to them. You must have a lot of friends...


No, anyone talking about metal should know what metal is (unless they're just getting into the genre, but no one here seems be doing that.) And a true metal fan would wouldn't allow morons to disrespect something he or she loves if he or she has the opportunity to do so. Anyway after sifting through the ad hominems and 0/10 insults, I think it would be safe to say you have understood anything you've read so far.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 4515
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:57 pm 
 

Nhor wrote:
And a true metal fan would wouldn't allow morons to disrespect something he or she loves if he or she has the opportunity to do so.

Why? If someone gives you shit because of what you like it's simply because he/she doesn't respect you, plain and simple. If you take that to such a personal level that you need to "defend" your "way of being" then you're just empowering your assailant, nothing more. Despise is such a powerful weapon in this world, it's a shame people don't use it more often.

People don't understand metal? Fuck them! They bust your balls because you like metal? Fuck them! They mock you because you wear "strange shirts"? Fuck them!

My point being, stop caring about others' view of you and start worrying about yourself. Trust me, you'll feel better. Alternatively you can keep on this crusade but it will consume you as you can never win.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4631
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:59 pm 
 

It's all about setting realistic goals. One realistic goal is to correctly standardize the information on this website.
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:14 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Nhor wrote:
And a true metal fan would wouldn't allow morons to disrespect something he or she loves if he or she has the opportunity to do so.

Why? If someone gives you shit because of what you like it's simply because he/she doesn't respect you, plain and simple. If you take that to such a personal level that you need to "defend" your "way of being" then you're just empowering your assailant, nothing more. Despise is such a powerful weapon in this world, it's a shame people don't use it more often.

People don't understand metal? Fuck them! They bust your balls because you like metal? Fuck them! They mock you because you wear "strange shirts"? Fuck them!

My point being, stop caring about others' view of you and start worrying about yourself. Trust me, you'll feel better. Alternatively you can keep on this crusade but it will consume you as you can never win.


Because they want what's best for the genre. When someone gives me "shit" about metal, I ignore any mediocre attack at my character, and give a little history lesson whatever they're wrong about, which does take some explaining. You're right though, fuck-all-dem-niggas, but don't pass up the opportunity to make them look stupid when you can given you know enough about metal and are witty enough to pull one over on some idiot.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:16 pm 
 

You don't have to go about being right about things in a stupid way.
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:18 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
It's all about setting realistic goals. One realistic goal is to correctly standardize the information on this website.


Well there were only 40 something bands so I figured they slipped through the cracks, but I don't think it would be too hard to give MA a make over, despite the fact I think they have gotten in a little over their head no matter how many bands they reject.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:25 pm 
 

Nhor wrote:
Because they want what's best for the genre. When someone gives me "shit" about metal, I ignore any mediocre attack at my character, and give a little history lesson whatever they're wrong about, which does take some explaining. You're right though, fuck-all-dem-niggas, but don't pass up the opportunity to make them look stupid when you can given you know enough about metal and are witty enough to pull one over on some idiot.

I sometimes like to do this, play the knowledgeable card on those who try to come off as omniscient about things they have no clue about. However over time I changed this into an attitude of despise, mainly because people like that will always be like that, no matter how much you show them you're right and they're wrong. I noticed this reality a while back and since then I stopped caring about people who don't give themselves the trouble of understanding things that I appreciate or have a passion for. They just come off as unimportant people in my book, so I trump the despise card and move along. I just don't have the patience in me to put up with people like that anymore.
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Dogshit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:36 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Nhor wrote:
Because they want what's best for the genre. When someone gives me "shit" about metal, I ignore any mediocre attack at my character, and give a little history lesson whatever they're wrong about, which does take some explaining. You're right though, fuck-all-dem-niggas, but don't pass up the opportunity to make them look stupid when you can given you know enough about metal and are witty enough to pull one over on some idiot.

I sometimes like to do this, play the knowledgeable card on those who try to come off as omniscient about things they have no clue about. However over time I changed this into an attitude of despise, mainly because people like that will always be like that, no matter how much you show them you're right and they're wrong. I noticed this reality a while back and since then I stopped caring about people who don't give themselves the trouble of understanding things that I appreciate or have a passion for. They just come off as unimportant people in my book, so I trump the despise card and move along. I just don't have the patience in me to put up with people like that anymore.


In my experience not only have I gotten a fair amount of enjoyment, but it happens less and less that I have to have the same conversation with a person. Of course this will never completely die, especially for someone that goes to shows as often as I and there is a never ending supply of morons at any given gathering (except...Doom metal shows for some reason.) Though you mention you don't have the patience, which I can understand as I get quite annoyed, but I don't let that get in the way of the point.
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Evangelion2014
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 am
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:01 am 
 

If you have to explain to someone why KoRn or Parkway Drive isn't metal, chances are they aren't really a serious fan of the genre, but just like those specific bands. It's kind of like someone saying 'i love jazz' and listening to radio smooth jazz. I used to get all butthurt about people mistaking band x and band y for metal when I was a teenager and just getting into metal, but now I don't really give a shit. If a conversation turns to what bands I happen to like I'll mention a few bands (I even did a bathory tribute for my 'tribute' speech in speech comm 101) but come on, I have better things to do than correct ignorant people about genre specifics. All the energy spent being 'metal crusaders' could be better put to use fighting real problems, like oppression, injustice and violence.

And is anyone coming to this site really going to be confused whether people use the term mallcore or nu metal?

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mirages
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:31 pm
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:39 am 
 

So much cringe-worthy posts here, just to clarify:

1-mallcore and nu metal refers to the same thing.
2-it's a term coined by kvlt metal fans to define nu metal because it got very popular back then.
3-malcore has never been seen as a real genre outside underground metal scene and never will be.

This must be enough to answer op's question.

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