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MalariaMosquito
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:34 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:50 pm 
 

I always thought the term "Melodic Death Metal" sprung up to describe these semi-metal bands like In Flames, etc., and that using it to describe Swedeath and the like was an anachronism. Carcass was really the first, after all, and In Flames, ATG, Arch Enemy are basically Heartwork worship, aye?

But I suppose if the point of this thread is to rename genres so they make more sense, then I can agree with that reasoning.


Last edited by MalariaMosquito on Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Techno Viper
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:55 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:51 pm 
 

I believe the word "dom" is latin for "lord or master". Bands like Sabbath, Reverend Bizzare and Trouble often sang about being judged in the after-life, so I feel the genre label is perfect.


Last edited by Techno Viper on Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

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Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:55 pm 
 

MalariaMosquito wrote:
Carcass was really the first, after all, and In Flames, ATG, Arch Enemy are basically Heartwork worship, aye?


Not at all, the Swedish melodeath style is normally very distinct from Heartwork (maybe this isn't so true of Arch Enemy, but who cares?).
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Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:34 pm 
 

Techno Viper wrote:
I believe the word "dom" is latin for "lord or master". Bands like Sabbath, Reverend Bizzare and Trouble often sang about being judged in the after-life, so I feel the genre label is perfect.


That would be dominus. Making Black Sabbath a Dominican Metal band.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:57 pm 
 

MalariaMosquito wrote:
Hayisforhorses wrote:
From now on i am going to refer to the melodeath variety of melodic death metal simply as diabetes.

What exactly is the difference between melodic death metal and melodeath? I thought melodeath was short for melodic DM, like tech death is short for technical DM. And there aren't any bands tagged on the archives with "Melodeath".

Edit: Or maybe I'm missing the point. You just want them to be separate terms, with Melodic DM for bands like Amon Amarth, and melodeath for schlock like Arch Enemy. Am I close?


Your edit is correct, this is not the way things are, but what I'd like to be, as in line with the thread. I and a few others already use it, since it doesn't really ruin conversations for people who aren't doing it. I'm not totally sure where Amon Amarth or Insomnium etc would actually sit, I mean they're more death metal than the really flat out poppy ones, but at the same time they're a fair way from straight up death metal, they're kinda on the fence. The exact point of separation would be left up to people smarter and more interested in the sound than I.
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MalignantThrone
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:09 pm 
 

thebaldcadaver99 wrote:
The 'core' term is thrown around so much these days, we've got 12 year olds in skinny jeans thinking that Impending Doom is Grindcore!

Impending Doom were significantly influenced by grindcore back in the day, though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pW1M3o1pNg
dreadmeat wrote:
Djentcore? ha ha that's a new one [to me]

I mostly hear that term used to describe bands that mix deathcore and djent. See, for example, Persaeus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nThzPBwQ2i4
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TheEvilSocky
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:45 am 
 

"If you could rename a metal genre"=three pages of punk genre name changes.
joppek wrote:
i wouldn't mind if grindcore was called something else ("punkmetal" i suppose would be kinda descriptive, but it sounds pretty stupid...), simply because it's the only genre with the -core appendix that doesn't suck


You should really investigate the vast network of kickass fastcore and noisecore before you dismiss it along with popcore trash.
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Nhor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:26 am 
 

TheEvilSocky wrote:
"If you could rename a metal genre"=three pages of punk genre name changes.
joppek wrote:
i wouldn't mind if grindcore was called something else ("punkmetal" i suppose would be kinda descriptive, but it sounds pretty stupid...), simply because it's the only genre with the -core appendix that doesn't suck


You should really investigate the vast network of kickass fastcore and noisecore before you dismiss it along with popcore trash.


If this isn't a joke I would like to know what those are, that is if they are legitimate genres.
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EmeraldEdge9832
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:01 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:14 am 
 

Glam metal - I'd rename most of those bands as simply Heavy Metal, because that's what they are. When people bash glam metal bands they always are talking about their image, not their sound. The sound is usually heavy metal. (Usually)

Also I'd get rid of Doom Metal - It's a completely unecessary label. It refers solely to bands that sound like Black Sabbath, and yet Black Sabbath's music is synonymous with Heavy Metal, and so these Doom Metal bands should also be called Heavy Metal.

I don't know. Sometimes I think there are just way too many different labels and I don't know what to do with them all.

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Nhor
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:11 am 
 

EmeraldEdge9832 wrote:
Glam metal - I'd rename most of those bands as simply Heavy Metal, because that's what they are. When people bash glam metal bands they always are talking about their image, not their sound. The sound is usually heavy metal. (Usually)


Glam metal isn't even a genre to begin with, those bands are glam rock so if anything you should be naming it glam rock once and for all not glam metal.
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Ois666
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:14 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:02 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
metalcore, as in actual bands blurring the lines between actual metal and actual hardcore, can stay.


In my days they called that genre crossover! :)

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MalignantThrone
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:28 pm 
 

Nhor wrote:
TheEvilSocky wrote:
You should really investigate the vast network of kickass fastcore and noisecore before you dismiss it along with popcore trash.


If this isn't a joke I would like to know what those are, that is if they are legitimate genres.

"Popcore" is more-or-less made up, but...
http://last.fm/tag/fastcore
http://last.fm/tag/noisecore
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:29 pm 
 

Ois666 wrote:
LegendMaker wrote:
metalcore, as in actual bands blurring the lines between actual metal and actual hardcore, can stay.


In my days they called that genre crossover! :)


Hey, bro. I remember those days too, quite fondly even. However, while parallels can certainly be made between the two, there are key differences. Crossover, for the most part, referred to thrash metal bands who had gone one step "too far" into (usually but not necessarily hardcore) punk territory, and ended up sounding more like thrash/punk hybrids than just metal with decisive hardcore punk influences (ie thrash). Also, as you rightfully implied, it was a short-lived movement/scene that didn't really stick, and I can't say I'm aware of any post-80s band legitimately tagged as playing "crossover". Metalcore, in contrast, mostly refers to relatively recent bands who, coming from modern harcore and/or pop punk backgrounds originally, went one step "too far" into (usually but not necessarily heavy/power/melodeath) metal territory, and ended up sounding more like hardcore/metal hybrids than just hardcore punk with decisive metal influences (ie latter-day anything -core). Or do you really feel that, say, Killswitch Engage, Caliban, As I Lay Dying or Chimaera sound like they are closely related to, say, D.R.I., Cerebral Fix, HellBastard or Cryptic Slaughter?
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SingLoco
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:15 pm 
 

I think some "fantasy metal" should take the genre classification for a lot of power metal bands.
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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:48 pm 
 

Calling thrash metal something else (the words "speed" and "death" should do in most cases) because "thrash" is a skater word and should be used for punk crossover.
:oh shit:
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Oxenkiller
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:07 pm 
 

Ois666 wrote:
LegendMaker wrote:
metalcore, as in actual bands blurring the lines between actual metal and actual hardcore, can stay.


In my days they called that genre crossover! :)



That's generally correct. I think though, a finer distinction was that "Crossover" was more aligned to the 80's speed/thrash metal in terms of sound, i.e. punk crossed with speed/thrash metal. While what was later called "metalcore" was more punk crossed with late 80's/90's death metal- slower, meatier riffs, Gothenberg/at the gates/Inflames influenced melody and structure, and so on. Basically as metal evolved and the old speed metal sound kinda died, the hardcore bands took influence from the newer styles of metal, so- I admit it's like splitting hairs, but I would consider "Crossover" to apply more to 80s speed/thrash influence vs. 90's death metal influence.

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Nhor
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:21 pm 
 

EmeraldEdge9832 wrote:
Also I'd get rid of Doom Metal - It's a completely unecessary label. It refers solely to bands that sound like Black Sabbath



That, is simply incorrect.
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iAm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:28 pm 
 

Does anybody wonder why there hasn't been a Blackened Crust band called Burnt Pizza yet?
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soul_schizm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:31 pm 
 

I'd re-brand Wintersun's Power Metal. Something like, "Extreme Majestic Technical Epic Melodic Metal."

Yeah, that's it.

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TheEvilSocky
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:50 pm 
 

Nhor wrote:

You should really investigate the vast network of kickass fastcore and noisecore before you dismiss it along with popcore trash.


If this isn't a joke I would like to know what those are, that is if they are legitimate genres.[/quote]

Fastcore is the bridge between hardcore and grindcore, D.R.I.'s first lp is a blueprint, it's more commonly called thrashcore, but that leads to confusion so I (and most other punk listeners I know) stick to fastcore, either for the same reason as me or for pure hate of metal and all its ilk.

Noisecore is just badass incarnate, the next evolutionary chain after grind, typically the "drums" (I only listen to two noisecore bands that have trad kits) are created with no rhythm and any other instruments are just tortured, there's very rarely any words used for lyrics, just straight aimless screaming, Arsedestroyer and Deche-Charge are some of the essential noisecore bands I know of right off hand, although I practice a slightly raw black metal leaning style of noisecore that is in my sig

Popcore; Well that's just something I made up out of distaste of the idiots that put all that melodic bullshit into my metal flavored punk, it is a fitting title though since "pop" is short for popular, which the current metalcore scene has an abundance of, that and a focus on clean sung melody's, then there the fact it remind me of popcorn, it taste like ass and leaves those shitty kernels in you're mouth, but for some Crono's unknown reason, I still eat it by the bucket at movies.
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Nhor
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:32 am 
 

TheEvilSocky wrote:
Fastcore is the bridge between hardcore and grindcore, D.R.I.'s first lp is a blueprint, it's more commonly called thrashcore, but that leads to confusion so I (and most other punk listeners I know) stick to fastcore, either for the same reason as me or for pure hate of metal and all its ilk.

Noisecore is just badass incarnate, the next evolutionary chain after grind, typically the "drums" (I only listen to two noisecore bands that have trad kits) are created with no rhythm and any other instruments are just tortured, there's very rarely any words used for lyrics, just straight aimless screaming, Arsedestroyer and Deche-Charge are some of the essential noisecore bands I know of right off hand, although I practice a slightly raw black metal leaning style of noisecore that is in my sig

Popcore; Well that's just something I made up out of distaste of the idiots that put all that melodic bullshit into my metal flavored punk, it is a fitting title though since "pop" is short for popular, which the current metalcore scene has an abundance of, that and a focus on clean sung melody's, then there the fact it remind me of popcorn, it taste like ass and leaves those shitty kernels in you're mouth, but for some Crono's unknown reason, I still eat it by the bucket at movies.


Noisecore sounds like diarrhea from homeless people the way you described it, or just something only teenagers that listen to it for shock effect. Either it sucks as a genre or just not the right guy to be laying out the defining traits of it.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:02 am 
 

SingLoco wrote:
I think some "fantasy metal" should take the genre classification for a lot of power metal bands.


No more than a lot of other genres...traditional metal and black metal also have tons of fantasy themes.
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vengefulgoat
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:22 am 
 

EmeraldEdge9832 wrote:
Glam metal - I'd rename most of those bands as simply Heavy Metal, because that's what they are. When people bash glam metal bands they always are talking about their image, not their sound. The sound is usually heavy metal. (Usually)

I'd say it's mostly closer to hard rock than heavy metal.

EmeraldEdge9832 wrote:
Also I'd get rid of Doom Metal - It's a completely unecessary label. It refers solely to bands that sound like Black Sabbath, and yet Black Sabbath's music is synonymous with Heavy Metal, and so these Doom Metal bands should also be called Heavy Metal.


Partly agreeing here, many of those so called 'traditional doom' don't sound much different from abit slowed down, 'heavier' version of heavy metal. Candlemass is playing epic heavy metal, Pentagram plays heavy metal. Ideally, I would give tag heavy/doom to such bands. But still, that's only a small part of the doom metal genre, with more extreme subgenres like sludge or funeral doom sounding very far musically from old school heavy metal.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:05 am 
 

What does Saint Vitus play, then? Very heavy metal? What influence would you describe Incantation's slow breaks to have?

What's Anathema's genre on Crestfallen and Serenades? Epic heavy/death metal? How about Winter? Yeah, I don't think so.
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Cyradis
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:22 am 
 

I call what you'd call 'older doom' proto doom, people have annoyed me about it but I find it's the only way to distinguish unless you want to call it first wave, it wasn't exactly a wave though if you consider all of those bands that fell through the cracks. Eg. Wicked Lady. I don't like the idea of calling it hard rock either, that's retarded.
I'd like someone to come up with a new name for nwobhm because it's a pain in the ass for me to say, also too many people use black metal as a blanket term, y'know? That's a pain in the ass.

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TheEvilSocky
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:08 pm 
 

Nhor wrote:

Noisecore sounds like diarrhea from homeless people the way you described it, or just something only teenagers that listen to it for shock effect. Either it sucks as a genre or just not the right guy to be laying out the defining traits of it.

If you don't get the appeal thats fine but please don't try and label the entire genre's fans based on your own taste, other than a few insipid jack-ass's that heard of AxCx (which are easy to spot, AxCx being their "Fav band ever yo") we are almost completely free of posers, but since you got the idea, "diarrhea from homeless people" sounds like agood album title TBH, I did a wonderful job of describing the genre, but I'll try again since DfHP sounds "bad" to you,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDYKiahfbGc just listen, if you don't get it, like I said thats fine, but yet again don't use your taste to decide "Oh well I don't enjoy this, teens must make it for shock effect" it's silly.
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Indecency
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:15 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:31 pm 
 

I think the most important I would change is Melodic Death Metal. While it has undeniable similarities to Death Metal, I still think it's different enough to be a genre of its own rather than an off shoot. Maybe something like Pace Metal or something. I don't know.

I'd also change Metalcore. It's often annoying having to describe something as beign a hybrid between metal and -core without actually letting the subject think you're referring to the genre metalcore. Like, crossover, deathgrind, and metallic hardcore are all metal/-core, but they're not the genre metalcore. Just an nuisance. Change it to something like Pacecore (hybrid of my above suggestion).

Also: Technical, Progressive, Experimental, Math, Avant-Garde. Do we really need so many 'new'/'odd time signature' labels? I know they are different but the line gets pretty thick.

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:56 pm 
 

Ceald Hraew wrote:
Thrash should be renamed to something without 'th', so people stop accidentally calling it trash.


How about we just start calling nu metal trash metal? Sounds good to me! :-D

Also, I do kinda wish "downer rock" was a legit genre. Question is if that would apply more to doom metal or grunge...
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Smalley
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:31 pm 
 

Indecency wrote:
I think the most important I would change is Melodic Death Metal. While it has undeniable similarities to Death Metal, I still think it's different enough to be a genre of its own rather than an off shoot. Maybe something like Pace Metal or something. I don't know.

"Pace" Metal? Alright... why Pace Metal?

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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:15 pm 
 

Smalley wrote:
Indecency wrote:
I think the most important I would change is Melodic Death Metal. While it has undeniable similarities to Death Metal, I still think it's different enough to be a genre of its own rather than an off shoot. Maybe something like Pace Metal or something. I don't know.

"Pace" Metal? Alright... why Pace Metal?

And why pacecore? I guess he just has a thing for the word "pace"...
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Indecency
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:32 pm 
 

Smalley wrote:
"Pace" Metal? Alright... why Pace Metal?


I was at school in between classes bored out of my mind and decided to make a post on this forum. I had 0 creativity when creating it. MDM often has a quick pace to it, so, Pace Metal.

LegendMaker wrote:
And why pacecore? I guess he just has a thing for the word "pace"...


Nah man. Melodic Metalcore is a mix of Melodic Death Metal and usually Post Hardcore or Melodic Hardcore (or just -core). So since I renamed MDM to Pace Metal, well, Pacecore! Not affiliated with the Peace Corps.

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King_Hands
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:50 pm 
 

Indecency wrote:
I was at school in between classes bored out of my mind and decided to make a post on this forum. I had 0 creativity when creating it. MDM often has a quick pace to it, so, Pace Metal.
.

Yeah, and power metal often has catchy melodies. Let's call it "Catch Metal" instead.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:55 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
Indecency wrote:
I was at school in between classes bored out of my mind and decided to make a post on this forum. I had 0 creativity when creating it. MDM often has a quick pace to it, so, Pace Metal.
.

Yeah, and power metal often has catchy melodies. Let's call it "Catch Metal" instead.

I don't think my dog likes catch metal.

Every time I ask if he wants to listen to some, he runs away really quick, and then he turns around, looking all confused.
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dontlivefastjustdie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:00 pm 
 

iAm wrote:
Does anybody wonder why there hasn't been a Blackened Crust band called Burnt Pizza yet?

There was a band from atlanta called Burnt Pizza, I have a patch of theirs somewhere, but it was less blackened and more dbeat/noise mixed with crust. I don't even think they recorded anything though I might be wrong. Everyone here hated them I think but I loved that shit, NOISE!
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slayer85
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:27 pm 
 

SladeCraven wrote:
I really don't enjoy some of the sub sub genre names like National Socialist Black Metal, Depressive Black metal, etc.

NSBM is just refining particular bands for having specific lyrical content but they still play black metal, IMO. I don't understand the separate classification. Depressive black metal just sounds silly to me.


Yeah, Depressive black metal doesnt sound so 'black metal' to me. How about depressive metal or emo metal something else. That style of so called black metal doesnt seem very black metal like. More to do with extreme emo!
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EmeraldEdge9832
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:28 pm 
 

Quote:
I'd say it's mostly closer to hard rock than heavy metal.

Yeah, a good amount of it I would label as hard rock, but there's also a very large amount that I think is absolutely heavy metal. At least half of the so called "glam" bands are listed on this site.

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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:35 pm 
 

I agree with power metal not fitting (talking mostly about Euro Power). There's too much flowery stuff for it to make sense. Also, I think we need a new name for the Neurisis sort of thing. Post-metal sounds pretentious, post-harcore refers to the Fugazi type stuff for most people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-hardcore) and atmospheric sludge sounds downright silly (and perhaps contradictory to people not familiar with the genre).
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:04 pm 
 

Post- anything sounds pretentious, and just as unsuitable for a genre name as new anything. Genre names tend to stick, and how fucking stupid does it sound when something old enough to be your granpa is called say, "the new wave of__"? Post-whatever gives me the same feeling, only it adds an outrageously pretentious vibe of "very futuristic thing that outlived and surpassed __"; which is just anachronic as hell when the thing in question is alive and well, and in actually much better shape than the other thing that is so-called post-original thing. Please fucking stop with the post-metal, post-millenium, post-music bullshit, all of you, the world over. For the post-love of post-fuck!
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Exigence wrote:
the subject matter

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impudent
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:40 am
Posts: 40
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:04 pm 
 

"Heavy rock". It grinds my gears when somebody says that. I just don't like it when people differentiate between hard rock and "heavy rock" when they essentially are the same thing; in my opinion if there is no difference between the two I would simply refer it to as hard rock.
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Pale_Pilgrim
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 881
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:35 pm 
 

slayer85 wrote:
Yeah, Depressive black metal doesnt sound so 'black metal' to me. How about depressive metal or emo metal something else. That style of so called black metal doesnt seem very black metal like. More to do with extreme emo!


Really? That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in days. I'm a huge depressive black metal fan and have no idea what the hell you've been listening to. Allow me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ue0x4euh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXBR9O2oUVo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK_j0QbCN30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwiVs1p--rI

You don't hear the black metal in any of that? Also, do you even know what emo is?

As for post-everything, well, yeah, it gets thrown around without meaning. So does indie, core, etc. I use post- to refer to prog bands with a minimalistic approach, especially shoegazers with odd structures and signatures.
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Last edited by Pale_Pilgrim on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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