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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3621
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:12 pm 
 

Dying Fetus are an interesting case because their style doesn't really fit into a subgenre very easily. It's therefore safer to categorise them as "death metal" without trying to be too specific.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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MMM91
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:58 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:39 pm 
 

Understood. I have to listen to whole discography of Dying Fetus (I have only listened last two and other songs).

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iriki
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:02 pm
Posts: 972
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:05 pm 
 

iriki wrote:
I'd like to hear something about Mastodon being tagged as Progressive Groove Metal

iriki wrote:
It looks like 'hey, it's now groove metal, it has grooves in it, hehe'. Groove metal was a genre in a context in the 90's, with bands such as Pantera, Sepultura or Machine Head, with the sense of heavyness, thrash and groove. Mastodon's lastest album still have a sense of less heavyness than abrasiveness, it doesn't sound as a revival or at least influenced by those bands above. It has grooves, but it doesn't mean that sludge doesn't have. I think Prog Sludge is still fine.



Other band I'd like to mention is Ghost Brigade. I got confused about being Melodic Death/Doom, i see cleary the abrasive riffs and hardcore drive vocals from Sludge metal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... XhLo#t=55s

I'm not sure if the 'Death' element is there, but i think the idea of, at least, add Sludge at their tag should be useful.

Can anyone enlighten me?



Hmmmm, anyone? :oh shit:

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4974
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:57 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Imm ... 3540350037

"Doom/Death/Atmospheric/Progressive/Funeral Metal"

I'm not too familiar with doom sub-genres, but it's not progressive. Asked Tony for his expertise here.

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 8853
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:48 am 
 

I changed the genre, thanks Zodi.
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Ogerz001
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:06 pm
Posts: 200
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:56 am 
 

Unsaint

(Melodic?) Death / Thrash Metal is a better fit than just Thrash Metal

http://unsaint.bandcamp.com/

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3621
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:21 pm 
 

It's just thrash metal. Not death metal.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 473
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:07 am 
 

That kind of genre description isn't good, it's like writing on every heavy metal band "Heavy Metal with Hard Rock influences". And this one too.

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oogboog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 866
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 am 
 

aeternus1990 wrote:
That kind of genre description isn't good, it's like writing on every heavy metal band "Heavy Metal with Hard Rock influences". And this one too.

The first one shows that one genre is dominate over the other, so I think that's fine (maybe a double check would help)? I'm not to sure about the second list though.
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wrath of poo wrote:
but not sub-genes of death metal ( like grindcore and black metal).

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3621
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:27 am 
 

He's right. Putting "Gothic Metal/Thrash Metal" instead of "Gothic Metal with Thrash Metal influences" indicates that the music is an even hybrid of both genres. Having the "- with X influences" suffix informs the reader that the latter influences aren't dominant, although in some cases it may be nitpicky as to warrant removal.

I do agree that *some* bands on that list may need to be checked, though. It's possible a few have an even distribution of both genres throughout their compositions, meaning it should use the standard "X/Y metal" format.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 6021
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:06 am 
 

Let's not fix what ain't broken. aeternus1990, your enthusiasm is commendable, but going through these lists determining if the phrasing really reflects the genre is nitpicky and not a high priority. Also, the "with XYZ influences/elements" template is site-sanctioned. I don't really use it myself, but I can see that it's handy for some bands for the reasons oogboog and Alhadis mentioned. Sure, there are probably some bands that need adjustement, but the concept itself is allowed ("blackened" as opposed to "black/" also being a widely used, accepted descriptor for metal genres).

There are better things to do.

EDIT: Just a reminder, this thread is for more severe things, like bands labelled thrash when they are death metal. Or melodic death when they are black/death. There are valid finer permutations of course, but in general let's try to keep it to the more obviously incorrect genres in here rather than nitpicky or cosmetic detail.
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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 473
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:35 pm 
 

True. I'm just thinking that long genre description cluttering the fields and, as you already said, some of those bands need to be checked; you know, what makes MA the best site about metal: not simply the most complete and correct database, but also that it's very beautiful, gorgeous, magnificent interface and it looks very cool and you feel very comfortable when you use it, and you even don't want to go anywhere else if you're looking for sites about metal, just look to other websites of this kind - they are non-comfortable. And MA is comfortable, because it really looks like an Encyclopedia. I thought then that those genre descriptions should also have encyclopedic style of mentioning, that's why I wrote these low-priority-for-the-site "reports".
I'm pretty sure MA is the best because it was created by girl and she knows how to make her "little" child growing strong, beautiful... oops, sorry, I'm addicted and went too far...
You're right, there are better things to do.
Genres are terms created by listeners and reviewers, not by musicians, and maybe it's even not a good thing - to label music using genre tags, sure that musicians themselves mostly didn't like to do it (what sometimes makes a good laugh when they call their band unique, indie, progressive and play just typical music); however, for encyclopedia it's good to give an advice how sounds music that you're looking for, and, simply because most bands not outstandingly creative like the ones who were creators of different kinds of music, they are easily fitting into the genre category.
I should agree, it's better to look for general things, like you said, correct wrong genres to the right ones. It's even hard to imagine how much nitpicking "tips", "advices" and "reports" like "the band is not black metal, it's supreme black metal!1" you always got through the years, and I think you're tired of this shit while there's so much work here to do.

So I'll stop to post things like that ones to not disturb you, and will concentrate for the general info. Nitpicking things should be collected later, much later to a list with which-I-think-correct descriptions I guess. So, what's then the best if I'll find wrong genre description: leave the message here or make a report?

And other general question: what kind of stuff is most hard to do while working with MA to you? I think the most hard is deciding the bands - should they have their place here or not, the second - how to describe their music and the third - getting through all of us, and our pretentiousness, like how you MUST work with the site while it's completely yours, am I right? :D

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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:19 am 
 

Astral Sleep are currently listed simply as "doom metal", but half their vocals are death growls. I think that should be reflected in the genre field. Maybe Tony or someone else acquainted with doom can give them a listen and decide whether their genre should be changed.
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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3621
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:53 am 
 

Are you implying that vocal styles have anything to do with death metal song structure...?

In this case, I'd agree that "Death/" should probably be added... there's heavier guitarwork going on here than your typical doom metal outfit.

EDIT: Okay, this is far from vanilla doom metal. Changed.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:31 pm 
 

Sure, it isn't just the vocals. They have other death metal and death/doom elements in their sound that you don't normally find in traditional doom metal. The vocals were just the first thing that caught my attention.

Though there are precedents on this site when the vocal style has a direct influence on the genre, for example Brimstone from Sweden, who are listed as "melodic death/power metal" even though they play pure heavy/power metal with not a trace of death metal or melodeath in their music aside from the fact that they use growled vocals.
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elfstone321
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:27 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:19 pm 
 

Hi ,Golden Resurrection I think their genre should be Melodic Neoclassical Power Metal and not Melodic Neoclassical Metal.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Gol ... iscography

can you please tell me if Im correct??

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5344
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:24 pm 
 

Grind (186 hits)

vs

Grindcore (3290 hits)

Is it necessary to have two kind of writing it?
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 6021
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:31 pm 
 

Nope, and I've been planning on cleaning this up.

EDIT: Lo and behold, I just did.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4974
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:23 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Thy ... one/108477
http://www.purevolume.com/thywillbedoneofficial

Not thrash at all. Metalcore, pretty much just metalcore.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 6021
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Thy_Will_Be_Done/108477
http://www.purevolume.com/thywillbedoneofficial

Not thrash at all. Metalcore, pretty much just metalcore.

Done.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5084
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:34 pm 
 

Reaktor should have its genre changed to "Industrial/Groove Metal". Although it has a few thrash influences it's more like Fear Factory in the nineties with a lot of chugging groove. I've only found one song on Youtube though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwPB0poVjwE

Ramp should also warrant genre revising. Thoughts is speed/thrash but from Intersection onwards their sound is more groove metal with some slight thrash and industrial influences, although as in Reaktor's case they're not prevalent. Something like "Speed/Thrash (early), Groove/Thrash (later)" would probably be comprehensive enough.

1992 - Thoughts EP (Note that the last three songs are CD bonus tracks that already show the evolution towards Intersection)
1995 - Intersection
1998 - EDR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bCJEXmfZeY, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ObWDqhbrU, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFUCv-vZPhM
2003 - Nude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbdfUsPbKUw
2009 - Visions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT9Bl6xwxt0, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT9Bl6xwxt0, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axZuwRpo ... re=related

Leaving onto other shores, Path Of Debris should be changed to "Melodic Death Metal". Their style is very similar to Amon Amarth's debut and the structure of the songs is always based on melody, although it still packs some aggression here and there:

1996 - When Darkness Descends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GPZyxdx ... ure=relmfu, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4juyHao ... ure=relmfu, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b87Ol80z ... ure=relmfu

1998 - The Eyes of the Basilisk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z53H8ban ... ure=relmfu, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb7pmw5P ... re=related, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCfNvNQ6 ... ure=relmfu
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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 473
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:04 pm 
 

Finally, thanks to the owner of 7'' for rips - now the genre of NWOBHM band Limelight should be updated, their '72 single:
Baby Don't Get Hooked on Me / I'll See You on Sunday

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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:45 am 
 

No links but what does extreme metal as a genre description mean? Kind of broad...
http://www.metal-archives.com/band/view/id/36737
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tanabata wrote:
I heard one of the moderators blacklisted them because of his subjective opinion. Well If that is the case, you sir have shit taste and you ain't my nigga!

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3621
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:25 am 
 

"Extreme Metal" means absolutely fuck-all. It's generally used as a last-resort term by n00bs who have no idea how to classify metal, but since it has blast beats or something to that effect, they simply lump it as "extreme".

I'd correct the genre, but there're no longer any links to song samples anywhere. If somebody were to dig them up, I'm sure we could all have a listen and settle on a real genre...
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1427
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:31 am 
 

androdion wrote:
Reaktor should have its genre changed to "Industrial/Groove Metal". Although it has a few thrash influences it's more like Fear Factory in the nineties with a lot of chugging groove. I've only found one song on Youtube though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwPB0poVjwE


This band is actually on the blacklist under it's corectly spelled name Re:Aktor. I guess the submitter didn't know or circumvent the list. Anyways, if the band was a legit side-project as described in the biography, it can stay. I've corrected name, genre and blacklist.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5084
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:35 am 
 

Helvede wrote:
androdion wrote:
Reaktor should have its genre changed to "Industrial/Groove Metal". Although it has a few thrash influences it's more like Fear Factory in the nineties with a lot of chugging groove. I've only found one song on Youtube though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwPB0poVjwE


This band is actually on the blacklist under it's corectly spelled name Re:Aktor. I guess the submitter didn't know or circumvent the list. Anyways, if the band was a legit side-project as described in the biography, it can stay. I've corrected name, genre and blacklist.

It was blacklisted? Weird since I remember the band being on MA way back since v.1. I was meant to say that the name was misspelled but when returning results for the name search they had a "also known as Re:Aktor" so I thought it would be alright in the end. Also, I think the "A" isn't capitalized. Minor detail I know. :)

The band is indeed a real side-project from the Ramp and Sirius guys, which are some of the best known in the Portuguese metal scene. Even if it borders a bit on being too industrial or chuggy they do belong here. Oh, and it was I who added the bio info back then but you can check the band's bio on NB.
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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3621
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:53 am 
 

Several bands that were previously blacklisted were later removed when their material was later reconsidered to be acceptable. When blacklisting bands, moderators will sometimes need to cover numerous spellings (or misspellings) that unscrupulous users will try and use to weasel the band into queue. For that reason, when a band is later unblacklisted, it never occurs to the mod removing them to bother checking for the other spellings too.

I had no idea DPOS!!! was once blacklisted until I saw "Disgusting Piece of Shit!!!" in the blacklist one day by accident. That'd obviously be a remnant of some stubborn, irritating user trying to submit 'em under a different name. :p
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 258
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:20 am 
 

I've sent in a report for the genre to be modified for Forgotten Tomb, to add that their newer material from Negative Megalomania and on has a strong depressive rock side to it that should be made note of, if anyone wants to go and change that or at least close the report saying why we're leaving it as it is it would be appreciated considering it's been up for a little while now.

Also, is there an actual link to view the blacklist? I'm curious to see who's on there

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 8853
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:21 am 
 

The blacklist is for the mods only, sorry. Someone will do your report, a genre change is really not a priority and it's time demanding.
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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 258
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:20 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
The blacklist is for the mods only, sorry. Someone will do your report, a genre change is really not a priority and it's time demanding.


Alright no worries, thanks!

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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 473
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:45 am 
 

aeternus1990 wrote:
Finally, thanks to the owner of 7'' for rips - now the genre of NWOBHM band Limelight should be updated, their '72 single:
Baby Don't Get Hooked on Me / I'll See You on Sunday


The report was closed without changing the genre. That means one single is not enough to change the genre if it was made in different genre? Does not the sound samples proof that the band played Pop/Rock before NWOBHM?

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1414
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:40 pm 
 

Many NWOBHM bands had pop and hard rock output and I don't think this band deserves different treatment than those.
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Pr0nogo
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 85
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:04 pm 
 

What on earth is grind 'n' roll?

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Cor ... 3540338832
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ballgag/74136
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Bender/3540321563
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/SmrZ!/3540323344

http://www.metal-archives.com/search?se ... band_genre

Additionally, I believe the Viking metal tag is being applied way to liberally.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Kin ... 3540295065

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONcF4GDiSUI <--- aside from the intro, what sets this apart from melodic death metal? It actually sounds a lot like God Dethroned, which is more on the blackened side of things.
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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 473
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:14 am 
 

Ayas - no folk metal here, it's heavy metal with thrash riffs and with oriental influences:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw3hTvXmvI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eejhOAhIXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3FAWjcpvNQ

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1414
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:19 pm 
 

Submitted based on a few online reviews that seem to not exist anymore.

Fair enough.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5084
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:45 am 
 

What's MA's view on bands presenting a middle ground sound where they play aggressive black metal based on melodic power chords? Or better said, a band that bases the song structure on melodies but executes them in an aggressive manner. Black metal with melody or melodic black with balls? :)

Case in point would be Midvinter.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 6021
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:23 pm 
 

I'd just label it as black metal.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5084
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:30 pm 
 

Uhm, OK. I was just curious to see if MA would consider that album melodic black or not. I know that "black metal with melody" isn't a genre. ;)
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 6021
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:41 pm 
 

Eh, I skimmed two or three songs, maybe. I guess there's nothing wrong with calling it melodic black metal either. My point is that it's kind of nitpicky/minor.
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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3621
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:51 pm 
 

It's not always nitpicky. Melodic black metal refers to BM with a relatively upbeat atmosphere (Vreid, Sworn, Chthonic, etc). A band should be unquestionably melodic in nature to warrant the tag, however.
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J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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