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Slag
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:56 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:59 am 
 

Yea, I have only seen a few bits and pieces, but you bring up a good point about the bare basics. In that if he wasn't misleading the audience in the first place it would be okay. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. The guy is spewing out nonsense left and sometimes even right. And whats more, considering that he actually doesn't cover every big genre, but adds in bull crap unrelated ones, then I feel justified in what may be more of an overly critical scrutiny of his show.
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yellowmadness54
Mallcore Kid

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:50 pm 
 

I just saw the powermetal episode, which was cool, but strayed a bit off topic, and neglected bands more true to the grenre.

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waiguoren
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:23 am 
 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but I saw on IMDB that Sam Dunn will be making a documentary called 'Satan' in 2013. He better get his facts straight though and let the world know that Satan is a Korean boss that does not pay one's health insurance or tax yet still deducts the amount from the employee's pay check!
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MaelstromMind
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:24 am 
 

Jeff Wagner, former Metal Maniacs editor and author of the progressive metal book Mean Deviation recently posted this comment on Facebook about being interviewed for Metal Evolution-
Quote:
hope they give me more than 3 seconds to set things straight with! I couldn't talk about Opeth, because apparently VH1Classic are scared of anything death metal-related. Sam tried! But you do what you can with the tools given. We'll see.
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Starwind
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:33 am
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:18 am 
 

I caught Dunn a few times when he was in the band Burn to Black. They were pretty fucking good, and he seemed like a laid back, down to earth guy. Sported some cool 1st wave black metal shirts, too. Anyways, Headbanger's Journey was good for what it was... which is an entry level documentary for someone starting off in metal. Very basic, a bit grating to watch if you already know the details. Global Metal was a little more in-depth and was a fairly good watch. The Rush one was good as well, although it's a lot harder to fuck up a biography than a documentary on one man's journey to explain and sum up a genre as vast as metal.

I saw the thrash episode and the glam episode back to back. The thrash one was pretty alright, but again, nothing that someone who's been into the genre would find interesting. The glam one seemed more like a forced episode to me; he wasn't overly enthusiastic or into the bands he was talking about. It seemed more like a kid that had to do an essay on something he didn't really give a shit about. Really, between that and the post above (as well as the rumour that the death metal and black metal episodes were shot down) it seems as though VH1's got him by the balls. It's a bunch of old people that are afraid of music that was edgy in 1989.

Honestly, out of what I've seen, nothing's been earth-shatteringly offensive. Basic? Yeah. But the scope he's trying to tackle with the time he's given is really not working in the favour of anyone. Oh, and couple that with the fact that we've heard all of these stories a thousand times before. There's very little in metal that hasn't been talked about, and either you've heard it already... or you're a novice to the genre. This show seems to target the novices.

And as far as the shit metal tree goes; head anywhere on the internet... you'll find someone with some stupid idea about what genres exist and what genres don't. There's the Map of Metal. There's Anus' metal tree, which I'm sure doesn't conform 100% to what a lot of people here would deem "correct". Hell, there's a thread on this very site at this very moment that talks about a made up genre that doesn't deserve to be discussed. As long as there's a need to categorize things, there will be people trying to pigeonhole bands into smaller and smaller boxes. There will also be people with incorrect views on the history and relations of established genres. I'd say almost everyone is guilty. The only difference? Not everyone has a TV show to be their soapbox.

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volutetheswarth
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:21 am 
 

My one complaint with this show is that there's not enough interesting segments for people with a wider knowledge of metal. Sam Dunn only focuses on the most popular bands instead of the other cogs in the wheel, the lesser known bands that gave those bands momentum, pushed the boundaries and ultimately helped the subgenre last longer. Way too many bands and artists were overlooked in the Shock Rock and Nu Metal episodes. The Shock Rock episode started off okay but when it got to Marilyn Manson, the whole thing just became typical and uninteresting. And the Nu Metal episode was abysmal right from the beginning, any person who disliked Nu Metal wouldn't be remotely swayed by it's quick (from point a to point b) summary.

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Tezcat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:49 am 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
My one complaint with this show is that there's not enough interesting segments for people with a wider knowledge of metal

Exactly! Because the show is aimed to a maintream audicence with little or no clue of what metal really is, its origins, development, styles and variations. I wonder if Sam Dunn really expected such an avalanch of criticism from his fellow metalheads... I repeat, perhaps we're being too hard on the guy?

Starwind wrote:
Anyways, Headbanger's Journey was good for what it was... which is an entry level documentary for someone starting off in metal.

...or someone who has no idea and wants to understand a bit more (parents, for example, who might be worried about their kids' new musical taste).

Starwind wrote:
The glam one seemed more like a forced episode to me; he wasn't overly enthusiastic or into the bands he was talking about. It seemed more like a kid that had to do an essay on something he didn't really give a shit about.

That's the same impression I got.

Starwind wrote:
There's very little in metal that hasn't been talked about, and either you've heard it already... or you're a novice to the genre. This show seems to target the novices.

Exactly!

Of course, the discussiin held here so far has been mostly about how and why Sam Dunn should have focused more on on obscure, underground metal bands, thus giving them the exposure they deserve.... the question is... do they? How positive for underground, obscure or less-well-known would be a major media exposure? Would that be really helpful to the band or would it also help the underground community/movement as a whole? The case of Anvil would give us a fair idea of what could happen...



And as far as the shit metal tree goes; head anywhere on the internet... you'll find someone with some stupid idea about what genres exist and what genres don't. There's the Map of Metal. There's Anus' metal tree, which I'm sure doesn't conform 100% to what a lot of people here would deem "correct". Hell, there's a thread on this very site at this very moment that talks about a made up genre that doesn't deserve to be discussed. As long as there's a need to categorize things, there will be people trying to pigeonhole bands into smaller and smaller boxes. There will also be people with incorrect views on the history and relations of established genres. I'd say almost everyone is guilty. The only difference? Not everyone has a TV show to be their soapbox.[/quote]
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Xpert74
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:15 pm 
 

I saw Metal: A Headbanger's Journey in theaters back when it was first going around, and I was really underwhelmed by it. I was only about 15/16 at the time, but even by that point I knew most of the stuff that Sam Dunn was discussing already, and there were a lot of things I disliked about it, like the focus put on glam or nu metal, and how little time was given to death metal in particular. He pretty much just showed Cannibal Corpse, and one little moment based on Autopsy's lyrics, from what I recall. I was disappointed enough with the movie (and its fucking tree) that I still haven't seen Global Metal, although I have heard that's a little better than A Headbanger's Journey. Knowing it's by Dunn though, I don't have great expectations for it. I also have no interest seeing Metal Evolution. Even if it did have episodes about death and black metal, I'm sure he would gloss over or mess up a lot of important info that should be presented.

Nolan_B wrote:
Tezcat wrote:
since "Welcome to Hell" is regarded as the first thrash metal album ever.

By who?



(I should note that I don't totally agree with the general Metal Archives consensus on this particular topic; as if that needs to be stated)

I think it's absolutely worth noting in a discussion about thrash metal. That particular album of Venom's isn't totally thrashy, but songs like Angel Dust and especially Witching Hour I consider thrash metal songs, and by the time they got to stuff like Black Metal and At War With Satan, I'd definitely consider them part of the genre in general.

sevenwinter wrote:
I am watching the Metal Evolution Shock Rock Episode on my PVR, and toward the end they are talking about Slipknot.. and i had to rewind this because i could not believe what i just heard.. Mr Monte Conner Seniop Vp A&R Roadrunner Records, talking about clown shawn crahan that he had a decomposing crow , and that he would inhale this stuff to feel the evil and feel the death... At first i was just shocked after hearing this as everybody know that this story go way back to the mid 80's with Dead's era with Mayhem. How uninspired this man can be to try to make us believe shit like that,like nobody is going to notice that this is a total ripoff of Mayhem ...Right now im just unimpressed with this show..
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Really?

I'm sort of surprised because I too associated that story with Dead, but then Slipknot did have a recording called Crowz. I think there was some story about them finding a crow or something, so it's possible that Shawn really did do something like that. The similarity between that and the Dead myth is uncanny however.
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ErectileProjectile
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:33 pm 
 

I watched maybe a minute and a half of the "power metal" episode and it was probably the most disrespectful idiotic thing I have seen by Dunn to date.
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Tezcat
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:04 pm 
 

ErectileProjectile wrote:
I watched maybe a minute and a half of the "power metal" episode and it was probably the most disrespectful idiotic thing I have seen by Dunn to date.

could you please elaborate? Because, you know, since I'm not THAT familiar with the intrincated story of the subgenre, I thought the episode was ok.
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Tezcat
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:33 pm 
 

So, except for the Canadian fellows, anybody saw the Prog Metal episode already? Any comments?
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aaronmb666
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:36 am 
 

MaelstromMind wrote:
Jeff Wagner, former Metal Maniacs editor and author of the progressive metal book Mean Deviation recently posted this comment on Facebook about being interviewed for Metal Evolution-
Quote:
hope they give me more than 3 seconds to set things straight with! I couldn't talk about Opeth, because apparently VH1Classic are scared of anything death metal-related. Sam tried! But you do what you can with the tools given. We'll see.

What is this 1995? They show Marilyn Manson on this and TMS, who's been blamed for so much shit, yet they wont do death metal.

This documentary was bullshit:
http://youtu.be/l1grzDvPROM

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Ritual_Suicide
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:46 am 
 

Dunn's early metal UK list has Thin Lizzy and AC/DC on it.
:durr:

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blastbeatshaman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:45 am 
 

Cannibal Corpse or any other death metal band covering Slayer makes them death metal no more than Cradle of Filth covering "Hell Awaits" makes them black metal.

As for "Metal Evolution," I found a few things interesting while watching that I wasn't aware of. I mean, I understand that prog-metal owes its beginning, in some part, to bands like Yes, Genesis, Rush (whom I have listened to and loved since I was a kid) and King Crimson, but they're not metal. Devoting 1/4th to half the episode to interviewing guys from those bands will not make them metal. Of course, everyone's going to throw in bands he should've interviewed - Fate's Warning, Meshuggah. I'm curious to see if there's a season two and what he'll touch on - black metal, death metal, metalcore.

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yellowmadness54
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:02 pm 
 

I'm not too good on keeping track of the episodes, as of now. I saw the Headbangers journey, which was ok for the most part. It seemed pretty basic. I really wish the labels on heavy metal would've been tackled. IE
"Metal is just inaudible screaming"
"Metal is just satan this and getting drunk that..."
"Metal is just random guitar notes and beating the shit out of drums"

But what ever...

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:12 pm 
 

Ranting about how close-minded normies just don't get is childish. You break the myths by simply allowing the truth to become manifest by approaching the subject matter seriously.
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Ritual_Suicide
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:35 pm 
 

yellowmadness54 wrote:
I'm not too good on keeping track of the episodes, as of now. I saw the Headbangers journey, which was ok for the most part. It seemed pretty basic. I really wish the labels on heavy metal would've been tackled. IE
"Metal is just inaudible screaming"
"Metal is just satan this and getting drunk that..."
"Metal is just random guitar notes and beating the shit out of drums"

But what ever...


I was once told that Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Helloween and Dream Theater aren't metal because they have "actual singers" and "know how to play their instruments" by a guy who called himself a metalhead and listened to Korn and Staind and called those bands hard alternative.


Last edited by Ritual_Suicide on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unifying_Disorder
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:38 pm 
 

Ritual_Suicide wrote:
yellowmadness54 wrote:
I'm not too good on keeping track of the episodes, as of now. I saw the Headbangers journey, which was ok for the most part. It seemed pretty basic. I really wish the labels on heavy metal would've been tackled. IE
"Metal is just inaudible screaming"
"Metal is just satan this and getting drunk that..."
"Metal is just random guitar notes and beating the shit out of drums"

But what ever...


I was once told that Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Helloween and Dream Theater aren't metal because they have "actual singers" and "know how to play their instruments" by a self-described metalhead no less.


Wait, so he likes musicians that don't know how to play their instruments?
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Ritual_Suicide
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:41 pm 
 

...I shouldn't post when I have the flu.

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godsonsafari
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:13 pm 
 

Finally watched the final two episodes (Power and Prog metal).

-LOL, what was wrong with the power metal episode? It was clear to me that Dunn wasn't saying that he didn't know what power metal was by saying that it was alien to him, he was saying the sociological aspects of the genre were alien to him - all the nerdy Renfaire shit that goes along with it. As far as discussing the origins of the music - he pretty much hit the nail mostly on the head. I disagree with him grouping Scorps in "power metal" but I guess I sorta see why he did it now, at least. If anything, the reference to Manowar and the US Power Metal bands (which is ostensibly what that became) was totally out of place and seemed to be done just to try and satisfy people on the internet, simply because none of the other key figures seemed to even care much about Manowar in the episode other than him and Ross The Boss.

-His final conclusion that power metal is a product that caters mostly to the mainland European fans and the festival thing is completely true. Europeans will listen to any shit that is loud, which is why Whitesnake still gets invites to Wacken and Korn used to headline Dynamo when that was a thing people cared about. Power metal's nature is perfect for that fanbase and culture, and it succeeds wildly as a result. If anything, he let Hammerfall completely off the hook for being a borderline joke band, especially early on.

-The prog metal episode: less successful. I'm not nearly as against DEP being on a show about heavy metal, but to go from Dream Theater to Tool to Meshuggah to DEP without any discussion about how those particular bands came around and what their real influences seemed rushed (borderline pun, sorry). Mastodon is a progressive metal band with heavy sludge metal influences...great. What the fuck does that mean again? Maybe that should have been broached somewhere else along the lines? I must have missed the episode about Eyehategod. Showing the tech death record covers like ITP and Elements on TV - OK, probably relevant to Mastodon's existence. Too bad there was no death metal episode to explain how any of that was relevant. Instead of focusing on Mastodon, they would have been better off spending their time on Tool and then shooting off to show a few of those bands "carrying that spirit" in the last 5 minutes alone. But that would have been my suggestion. That, and power metal would have been a better way to end the series. Seems a more natural way to go given the history of the genre and its popularity overseas. Instead, we close with a Canadian dude watching Rush. Hilllllarious.
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brain hammer
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:56 am 
 

What I really can't stand about it, is what a vanity piece it is for this Sam Dunn guy. His stupid face repeatedly plastered all over the opening credits of the show, as if he is somehow a vital part of the visual evolution of heavy metal. I know it's just cheap recycled shots from his "headbangers journey" flick, but it still annoys me in this context. Also annoying are his constant narrative interjections about "when I grew up listening to metal" and "I used to think these guys..." Again, vanity, self importance, and his need to be the star of the show. What he personally thinks about these bands is meaningless, if this show was actually intended to be a heavy metal history lesson, and not just another documentary aboout himself.

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Xpert74
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:46 am 
 

I remember his voice (hell, his tone in general) being really whiny in Headbanger's Journey. Does he still sound that way?
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MaelstromMind
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:37 pm 
 

Rather than start a new thread I figured I'd bump this one. It seems Sam Dunn's production company is trying to raise funds to produce a lost Extreme metal episode of Metal Evolution.

Here's the details - http://www.indiegogo.com/ExtremeMetal
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:48 pm 
 

Ten bucks say it'll be bullshit, just like the rest of the stuff Dunn does.
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Sanctium
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:48 pm 
 

No one give this man a dime

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Metalfuckingrules
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:41 pm 
 

MaelstromMind wrote:
Rather than start a new thread I figured I'd bump this one. It seems Sam Dunn's production company is trying to raise funds to produce a lost Extreme metal episode of Metal Evolution.

Here's the details - http://www.indiegogo.com/ExtremeMetal

Funny thing, I was actually the first one to bring this up in the Free-For-All Thread. :-D
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ENKC
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:20 am 
 

I'm about half way through the series now. I feel like it's a dramatic step up in quality from AHJ and I've been enjoying it greatly, but some things bother me. Why devote entire episodes to grunge, nu metal and 'shock rock', then nothing to death or black metal? I was also disappointed with the thrash episode when they barely acknowledged the existence of bands outside the States. Dunn found time to go to Sweden and talk about melodeath like it was a thrash revival movement, but couldn't spend a sentence saying "Hey, the German scene was a pretty big deal too"? That was a real letdown.
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csehszlovakze
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:13 am 
 

And what's gonna be in this episode on black metal? The whole media circus around Mayhem. No thanks, it has been made a million times.
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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:13 am 
 

Dunn's extreme metal episode run-down:

1. interview with Angela Gossow about women in extreme metal.
2. interview with hardcore satanist, Glen Benton (whispered mentions of the music, more about the Satan).
3. Dave Vincent "cribs" style segment
4. Whispered mentions of underground legends like Opeth, Morbid Angel and Death (brief cameo from Mikael Åkerfeldt)
5. Max Cavalera talks about recording Roots.
6. Dunn informs us that extreme metal bands come from all different countries in the world (some countries he didn't even know about). Dunn mentions his degree several times in this section.
7. Meshuggah? Meshuggah.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:18 am 
 

His 'metal tree' is so wrong that I find the series nothing more than a masochist exercise for any semi informed metalhead. I think some metalheads just 'accept' this kind of series cause no one is covering metal in a serious and detailed way at all and they are just fine with someone giving metal some kind of airing, regardless of the quality.

From what I've seen, the guy went into the more mainstream stuff and several times not giving a flying fuck it they were relevant or even in the 'rightness' of the subgenre to be covered. Obviously this is aimed to the noobs, but my problem is that even the most basic info is wrong in some levels and some omissions are just too evident, besides getting too way off topic in some ep's.

If I were interested on getting someone into metal, I won't recommend Dunn's shit at all.


ANationalAcrobat wrote:
Dunn's extreme metal episode run-down:

1. interview with Angela Gossow about women in extreme metal.
2. interview with hardcore satanist, Glen Benton (whispered mentions of the music, more about the Satan).
3. Dave Vincent "cribs" style segment
4. Whispered mentions of underground legends like Opeth, Morbid Angel and Death (brief cameo from Mikael Åkerfeldt)
5. Max Cavalera talks about recording Roots.
6. Dunn informs us that extreme metal bands come from all different countries in the world (some countries he didn't even know about). Dunn mentions his degree several times in this section.
7. Meshuggah? Meshuggah.


Sounds like Dunn's job for sure.
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aaronmb666
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:37 am
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:02 am 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
Dunn's extreme metal episode run-down:

1. interview with Angela Gossow about women in extreme metal.
2. interview with hardcore satanist, Glen Benton (whispered mentions of the music, more about the Satan).
3. Dave Vincent "cribs" style segment
4. Whispered mentions of underground legends like Opeth, Morbid Angel and Death (brief cameo from Mikael Åkerfeldt)
5. Max Cavalera talks about recording Roots.
6. Dunn informs us that extreme metal bands come from all different countries in the world (some countries he didn't even know about). Dunn mentions his degree several times in this section.
7. Meshuggah? Meshuggah.


Wow, that sounds like a joke. Glen Benton a hardcore satanist? He's clearly admitted thats its all a show. Fuck Dave. I could care less of what he says. Why would Max be talking about Roots now?
That donation thing is just laughable when all they would need to do is put it online/youtube.

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ENKC
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:25 am 
 

aaronmb666 wrote:
ANationalAcrobat wrote:
Dunn's extreme metal episode run-down:

1. interview with Angela Gossow about women in extreme metal.
2. interview with hardcore satanist, Glen Benton (whispered mentions of the music, more about the Satan).
3. Dave Vincent "cribs" style segment
4. Whispered mentions of underground legends like Opeth, Morbid Angel and Death (brief cameo from Mikael Åkerfeldt)
5. Max Cavalera talks about recording Roots.
6. Dunn informs us that extreme metal bands come from all different countries in the world (some countries he didn't even know about). Dunn mentions his degree several times in this section.
7. Meshuggah? Meshuggah.


Wow, that sounds like a joke.

That'd be because it is a joke, Joyce. And one of the better ones I've seen on MA.
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iAmDisturbed
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 10:31 am
Posts: 497
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:39 am 
 

ANatAcrob. hit it nicely.
I'm giving this whole thing a wide berth

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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:56 pm 
 

caught the thrash segment last night. It was on from 7-8 p.m. and they were talking about the black album by 7:30. I didn't have a good feeling about that.

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5397
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:56 pm 
 

Well I guess if you're trying to give a total summary of a genre you have to show how it died, and the black album was a huge part of the death. My biggest gripe was that he run out of content and went onto melodeath (Yes SotS is thrashy as fuck, most isn't) while giving the impression that regular death metal was unmusical noise, and his entire view of modern thrash was fucking Lamb of God.
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Sanctium
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Tenenesse
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:47 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
(Yes SotS is thrashy as fuck


What is SotS?

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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2785
Location: A step closer to home
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:58 pm 
 

Sanctium wrote:
lord_ghengis wrote:
(Yes SotS is thrashy as fuck

What is SotS?

Slaughter of the Soul, duh.
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which ones are mainstream cuz i will stop listening to them

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Machine_Dead
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 705
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:40 pm 
 

Why does he even need a financial boost, can't he just go visit some band members of a couple of important extreme bands in the US and/or go on holiday to Europe to visit some shows there and so some spontaneous interviews.. Half of his footage is archive material anyway, maybe for the better, 'cause it's not like we need to see more video footage of him watching shows or anything... -_-
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ThrashAD720
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:19 am
Posts: 159
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:03 pm 
 

VH1 probably gave them funding for the show but not for the Extreme Metal shows.

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Sanctium
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Tenenesse
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:39 pm 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
Slaughter of the Soul, duh.


I've never seen that abbreviation

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