I've always appreciated what the Bible had to say. It's the people who get ahold of it and use it to their own ends that anger me...


Kind of like what Gandhi said: I love your Christ, it's the Christians who really suck (paraphrase, of course). Wise man.

I often think if Christ returned right now, the first group of people he would distance himself from would be.....Christians.

As for Metal and religion: I take anything religious that I hear in music with an extreme grain of salt, and I highly recommend everyone else do the same.

If it is good, I will listen to it.

Well, I personally wasn't that big on christianity as a youth/teen even though having gone through confirmation school and all that. I guess that has to do with the fact that religion doesn't really have that much of influence anymore in Finland, or so it feels looking back, at least. There are, of course, the more absurd fringe elements, Jehovah's Witnesses and all those guys, but, as said, those are fringe elements. Has metal influenced my beliefs? I'd say no, as I was already atheistic type.

Regarding the writings of Bible, I can appreciate that there are worse commandments than "Love thy neighbour" and "Do unto others as they do unto you" but you don't really see that taking place in society today. And seeing that Jesus seemed to be pretty much against the organized religions in the writings, telling people that it was the faith that mattered, that personal connection with man and God, not the institution surrounding it, I find the whole church as an organization as extraneous. As another tool to use in gaining and using control.

But then again, I oftentimes find the generic black metal lyrics a bit silly. Okay, if one thinks critically about them a bit, you want to tear down religion, desecrate the helpless christians and burn down their churches. What then? Do you build new places of worship for the old gods, and wait for another bunch of vandals to tear those down? This is why I find bands with lyrics concerning that personal devotion, that personal contact with the Supreme interesting, whose message isn't just destruction for destruction's sake, but the seeking of something bit more.

But then again, sometimes you just to hear awesome tunes about smashing faces in with a hammer.

The Bible says a lotta stuff...

I was raised as a Christian, and Metal was definitely a rebellious escape for me, at least as an initial catalyst.
Being a musician, the music I enjoy usually doesn't change with my philosophical standpoint. I have explored countless religions, ideas, and schools of thought but the music I enjoy never changed. Sure, there were times when I might not listen to a few bands because I didn't want to consider the topics they were bringing up at the time (example: if you're striving to live your life for Christ you probably won't be too enthusiastic to surround yourself with pornography. You will attempt to avoid it... even if you don't want to.)
Then again, I never really had that many conflicts of consciousness with regards to the music. The way I see it, we do our own thing, regardless of anyone else's opinions.
Often the songs I write are reflections of personal ideas, struggles, and so on. The music itself doesn't seem to affect my belief-structure or the frameworks involved.

I also am quite familiar with a lot of Christian bands in the extreme music scene. One of the most spiritual moments for me was seeing Antestor live at Cornerstone Festival 2000. Being in a crowd of people (some in corpsepaint, like myself) all coming together to praise God under the context of 'Black' Metal was an enjoyable experience indeed.

That said... the only cure for the plague of humanity is genocide.
It's science.

Funny how everyone who says this never puts their money where their mouth is and start with themselves...

Never, eh? It's almost like those who've done so have found it difficult to communicate their success.

So very true.

Then again, I'm not a complete waste of flesh like some other people. I do my best to be polite to others, try not to intentionally be an uncivil human being even under the most insufferable circumstances.
I can be one hell of a dick, and I get frustrated sometimes for odd reasons. I do stupid things, and like most humans, screw up alot.
But I've never committed murder, I'm known to be trustworthy, I'm not known to be a liar (although it has happened... once lol) and dammit, there are much worthier selections than myself.

Therefore, the punishment I inflict upon humanity is this: to live, in pursuit of "happiness" if such a thing exists.

I know, I know. The kikes, right? Kurds? Spics? And yeah, fuck 'em faggots too. And gypsies too.

LOL! Exactly!

Nah man, I mean like the guy who murdered "Baby P" (look it up) the people who raped and murdered Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom. The cops who murdered my Friend Stephen H. Oliver and covered it up saying he tried to grab their gun (when in actuality he was crying for his mother in a drain-pipe).

It's true though, I'm a scumbag...

Edit: (and if you hadn't noticed, of "questionable/ambiguous" sexual-orientation)

What was the point of shoehorning this into your comment? Do you think people really care which genders you direct your sexual attraction towards? I mean, it would have been at least passable if you had led up to that idea with the entirety of your post, but the way you said it was basically "Okay, guys, that was my point. (BTW, I'm a bisexual! Isn't that so cool!?)", and it frankly comes off as attentionwhoring.

Metal hasn't really affected my beliefs tbh . I have always been an atheist and I always will.

And some stuff is more awesome than other stuff.

What is the use of starting a "mass suicide" if you are the only tard who is going to do it?

There are stupid people in this world, do you want them running around wrecking havoc? We could "teach" people to stop being stupid. If that doesn't work, maybe we can resort to genocide.

I'm more concerned with people who think they're smart running around wreaking havoc.

I'd immediately dismiss this post as satire if you weren't the one writing it. And my god, do I hope you're simply very inept at conveying sarcasm online...

Well, that could be a reason why we could look closer to genocide.


Well, a part of me was being serious, but even if humanity is on the brink, well, let's just hope that don't resort to extreme means.

So much in the recent comments. BTW, I agree with everything MalThro said. The genocides and "hey, I'm bisexual" are off the subject anyway.

Someone mentioned ''faggots'' in a previous post, and I remembered it at the end of my post. So it's not off topic, and I don't really care how it sounds. The thought was conveyed ''No, Michelle does not hate faggots because it may very well be that he is at least partly one himself.''
Now that is a lesson in redundancy right there. Trolls take note. lol



For real, especially when there are so many better candidates for the job.

Well, it's been fun. God bless you all.
I mean that.

Once one person does it, it's a lot more likely that others will join in. It's a bit like trying to start "the wave", but with pistols.

Metal hasn't really affected my beliefs so much as engraved my personality. Disbelief is a thing that makes metal potent.

Then all "human extinction" advocates kill themselves, but everyone else will still be around. Seems like a dumbass move if you are aiming to eradicate the entire species.

I've been a skeptic since before I was ten years old (or, at the very least, I was uncertain of what makes the guy I was told to worship so special compared to any other person who's died similarly or under far worse circumstances... "Jesus" struck me as kind of a self-absorbed sociopath, really).

I think listening to Punk (namely 80's Anarcho-Punk stuff) changed my outlook more than any Metal band ever did, and I got into Punk years after my initial "Metal phase(s)"... 80's Punk, Hardcore, Crust and Grindcore were all important in reinforcing a lot of things and providing a totally new perspective on others.

But not Metal. At least not in any particularly significant way.

This statement doesn't really make any sense to me at all.
I can enjoy misanthropy as well as anyone, yet I still don't follow your logic here...

Jesus was a self-absorbed sociopath, so you turned to punk for inspiration

I never met Jesus in real life to know if he was on the level or not, but to choose Punk as an overriding philosophy after dismissing Christ as a wack job seems a bit....uh, strange to say the least.

Sorry but just calling it like I see it.

I guess I'll put my two cents in, hopefully I'll keep it comprehensible.

By and large, metal was just the beginning of my journey into atheism. Granted, I'm still on the agnostic-leaning-atheist fence, but it's coming full circle these days. I'd say the only thing that music has done for me is expose me to non-secular ideals and people, and it has been from there where my true growth has stemmed from. Being immersed within a mostly atheist society has pretty much forced me to listen to an argument or two of a non-believers view points, which has made the transition from Christian to atheist easier to handle. Really, when you're bombarded with their simple request to just sit down and truly ponder whether or not you agree with a believer’s story of the universe, you'll eventually do it. That's where common sense begins to take over. Biblical stories just don't seem right anymore. When are you supposed to abide by the Bible (or otherwise varying religious text) as the word-for-word LAW of God; to be followed precisely and without question or hesitation, and when are you supposed to take them as simply metaphorical lessons? Does God still expect us to stone to death homosexuals, disobedient children, and those who work on the Sabbath? I'd like to think not. But again, it doesn't say anywhere that those laws have been repealed or otherwise ruled obsolete by the big man upstairs, so shouldn't they still be considered valid and in full effect today? If the Bible is the word of God, then who are we as humans to determine what is meant to be taken literally and what is to be taken tropologically?

All are typical skeptics’ questions. Really, the only thing that I'll credit metal with doing was aiding me in learning to question everything; science and logical reasoning have done the actual converting. Being as it is, if I didn't find such entertainment within (again) a predominantly atheist community, then this would have been a conversion that I likely would not have made, if only not for a long time. That, or I would have begun to live in denial, which fools no one. In all, I still find comfort in some religious icons and symbols, and I still believe that religious people for the most part only wish to do good by their fellow man. It's just not a train I can ride on anymore, and in a way it actually does make me a bit sad, as to why? I don't know. But, oh well, that's a part of growing older and wiser.

Now, to the beer thread...

It's pretty clear to me you must be pretty ignorant of "Punk" ethos, then.

Frankly, I would say exactly the same of Metal changing anyone's views. Furthermore, if you think I'm talking about some 1970's Sex Pistols wank bullshit or something, then you are sorely mistaken.

Also, you need to fucking learn to read. I was not listening to Punk (or even metal) before I was 10 and questioning the validity of Abrahamic religions. I was a kid who only listened to what was played in the car (Christian Contemporary music mostly).

So no, I didn't "TURN TO PUNK" because I think Jesus "was a sociopath" (how'd you miss that I was trying to be humorous with that blatantly extreme statement?).

I didn't get into Punk until I was about 14...

I feel like you might just be some butt-hurt Jesus freak or something...
Sorry but just calling it like I see it.

Music influenced me a lot during the lifetime, firstly it took my faith away via Marilyn Manson's songs, then it came back to me

Huh? Seriously?

Say what you want about the Punk ethos being an important influence on my life (sorry, I was a misanthropic, hateful teenage shithead before I got into Subhumans' "From The Cradle To The Grave" album, so I don't think that's such a bad thing. Yes, that record did literally CHANGE MY LIFE).

But Marilyn Manson? You trollin'?
If not, I am sorry... I really don't know if you're kidding or what though.

I came into this world as a Christian but once I could think for myself, I realised it wasn't for me.
Metal didn't change my views as I didn't exactly enjoy church on Sundays and other religious things but it did show me that there's others who don't enjoy it either.

Actually metal has made me more open and sympathetic to religion even though I consider myself an atheist.

I admit that being thirteen and new to black metal, that it somehow influenced my thinking at the time. It was a stupid fase and I am happy that I managed to sort out my own opinions about things, because when thinking about it, many black metal fans and musicians are narrow minded morons. I dislike the scene, but love the music of many bands. On a more positive note, some bands got me interested in philosophy, mainly Nietzsche, because black metallers tend to be so narrow minded and don't seem to talk about any other philisopher. Nietzsche is a hype amongst the fans, though I do not plan on criticising him, because it is hardly his fault.

I burned an upside-down cross in my forehead because Glen Benton told me to in a dream. I also have a tattoo of a tasmanian devil riding Cerebus, shooting a flaming arrow into the sky.

Has metal changed my beliefs? No, why would they? If anything it only reinforces them. . . . especially black metal.
I consider myself an atheist/luciferian and listening to Destroyer 666 doesn't exactly make me sit in my bedroom and philosophize about the ideas of the world.

I remember when I was 13 years old, my mom came into my room and saw me performing a satanic ritual. She's quite religious, so she got some holy water to try and dump on me and prayed. But, because I was possessed by a malignant demon called Tyrant, I levitated up and chanted in tongues until she left the room. I had drawn a pentagram into the ground and to this day it is still there and nobody bothers me during my rituals anymore. . . dammit.

I doubt it. . . honestly. Christ wasn't exactly the greatest moral leader on the face of the earth. . .

A few points.

Culture is not your friend.

If you meet the Buddha on the side of the road, kill him. (Alternately, if you love something, set it free. If it comes back, set it on fire.)

Historically, evidence points to Jesus (if that was even indeed his name, assuming he materially existed in the first place) being very eastern-minded. Hindu, Buddha, and Tao are not a far cry. Compare that to the new testament, and well, people have been doing the same terrible stuff as far back as we have records. The texts that comprise the NT are estimated to be some few hundred years after its claimed events. Very much of it was political, and so plenty of it is just made up (or borrowed to placate the newest batch of "converts"). Others have hinted at this from its establishmentarian nature. That's if you even trust their translations in the first place!

To respond to the topic, I'd say of course. Not radically, but even in reflecting them, things shift around. Degrees might change, reevaluating the same notions from varying perspectives, even the focus on one particular feeling or issue changes, and that amounts to some difference. Personally, and less subtle, I've had a lot of moments where a record will isolate some raw intuition in my mind and lend it some form. That's kind of a big deal, like remembering something you've learned, or something so apparent that it just falls into place when you're made to think about it. Sensory input is part (or all, depends on the person) one relates to the world about them, so it's a question of how or how much than a yes or no.

Two of the most profound shifts I've had were from Funeralopolis and the first Om album (mmm, contradiction). For the former, it encompassed a lot of what I had decided for myself, but but with a dash of the cave metaphor and much less conceit. With Om, it made me reconsider balance. Balance, to me being the only natural ideal. Equal but opposing forces, and all that. I had decided that, but wasn't able to apply it on any practical level. That first Om record definitely changed that. At first it was just a feeling, but eventually unravelled it as plainly non-dualistic and nonmaterialist. Less instruments, less notes less themes, and yet much more despite that. That was a gamechanger for me. Also it's obscenely heavy, so there's that.

*chuckle*

indeed

I don't really associate my beliefs with the music I like.
I can enjoy Pig Destroyer's music and lyrics without having any interest in stalking girls.

I can't say that music has ever really influenced my beliefs or that my beliefs have influenced my musical tastes.

Lyrically you get so many different perspectives within Metal that it would be impossible for Metal to influence your beliefs in one specific direction. I think that changing my beliefs left me to be more open with what I listened to. I was raised Catholic, and Metal seemed, at first glance, Satanically inclined when I was a Catholic. Then I became a Pagan and was more receptive to the more extreme forms of Metal. Now I'm a Discordian and I listen to whatever my brain seems to like.