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FrozenDoom
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:37 pm
Posts: 68
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:10 pm 
 

I'm a guitarist, self taught, playing for 5 years. I've never taken a lesson but I've learned from tabs and videos. I've never been good at improvising solos. You might say that makes sense, since I've never had a lesson, but I can come up with riffs no problem, not dissonant and everything. People tell me to learn scales, but so far the scales I know (major, minor, harmonic minor, and blues) haven't helped at all. I also have a friend who has played as long as me, who can nail improved solos on the spot that can rival Jason Becker, or Dimebag. He knows no scales, and rarely learns other band's songs, yet he's a beast. He also won't give me advice, so I was wondering if any of you had any
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MoonPenatrator
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 552
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:05 pm 
 

I've been playing guitar for as long as you. I'd say I'm in between you and your friend. Though some might disagree, learning scales does help to an extent. If you know what scale your song/riff is in that you are soloing over, make a solo in that scale. Also, record a simple 3 or four chord simple riff, and just improv over it a lot of times. After that add a few more variations to the tracks or w/e. That's how I learned. I'm not the best lead guitarist in that aspect but I can do a descent melodic solo that isn't too technical. Hope that helps!
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korgull
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:53 am
Posts: 947
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:50 pm 
 

Get a looper pedal and use it often to quickly and conveniently lay down different rhythm tracks you can practice soloing over.

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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1636
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:11 am 
 

What is the main problem you are running into? Is it a matter of the quality of your solo, or are you not able to get in the right key?
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odinallfather
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:02 pm
Posts: 264
Location: Asgaard
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:44 am 
 

you gotta learn the scales, and I'll tell you why... every song is in a certain key, well, that's not true, but most of the songs are in a certain key, or the part you're soloing over is in some key... 99% of the time...

Now, when you play a note that is a part of that key, the person listening still hears the thing you played and the music in you playing over as the same key, and he might get pleasure from the harmony that result and the melody you make...

if you play a note that's not a part of the key, the person hears it as forein to the key, and regardless how good the melodic lines, or the harmonic effects you get with it, it will sound so out of place that it will destroy the feeling of the nice flow of music...

Now, if you learn the major scales, for example, then you gotta figure out which scale is used in the music you wanna solo over (if it be major) and you just play the notes of that scale in you're solo...
the rest is just the feeling, for the rythm, the flow of music, etc, etc...

Don't fight learning the music teory. If you wanna be a musician, you should know stuff about music...
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Dubhar
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:58 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:38 am 
 

FrozenDoom wrote:
I also have a friend who has played as long as me, who can nail improved solos on the spot that can rival Jason Becker, or Dimebag. He knows no scales, and rarely learns other band's songs, yet he's a beast. He also won't give me advice, so I was wondering if any of you had any


Some people just have a natural ability when it comes to their instrument. My brother's never had guitar or keyboard lessons and he just picked them up by playing along with Children of Bodom, I don't think he even knew what tabs were at the time.

Learn your scales, train your ears and watch your favourite guitarists playing on youtube. Try and figure out some solos by ear, starting with some slower ones will obviously help a bit. Slightly palm muting your strings will reduce unwanted noise from other strings.

I wish I could say more, but to be honest, I couldn't solo to save the universe.

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Awblaster
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:07 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:36 am 
 

Don't worry so much about the notes. Concentrate on good phrasing and rhythms. You could know all the scales in the world, but if you can't play something with a good rhythm behind it, it will not sound good. Listen to some jazz. Miles Davis was renowned for playing relatively few notes in his solos, but because his phrasing was incredible it worked.

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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 1451
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:21 am 
 

Try first to add leads, some nice melodies taking into account the whole harmony (chords and their transitions). Imagine you are adding vocal melodies to the rhythm, make the guitar 'sing' first. Doom metal has lot of slow lead work to hear, in heavy metal it's a given. Testament's Return to Serenity intro it's perfect for practicing phrasing and melody.

About scales, first pick the pentatonics and play with them, you'll have a lot of fun and those scales fit well in most of situations.
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Pfuntner
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:33 pm
Posts: 1079
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:01 pm 
 

Awblaster wrote:
Don't worry so much about the notes. Concentrate on good phrasing and rhythms. You could know all the scales in the world, but if you can't play something with a good rhythm behind it, it will not sound good. Listen to some jazz. Miles Davis was renowned for playing relatively few notes in his solos, but because his phrasing was incredible it worked.


This is solid advice to start with. Victor Wooten suggests something similar in his book if I recall correctly, although he was talking more about learning how to groove on bass rather than solo on guitar. Then again if you're solo doesn't groove with the music under it, no one's going to enjoy listening to it very much.

At the risk of saying the obvious, the only way to get better at improvising is to do it a bunch and be willing to get into tricky situations and make mistakes. Improvisation is one of my biggest weaknesses, mostly because I don't like doing it, so I avoid it. If you really want to kill at soloing at the drop of a hat, you can't shy away from improvising. It'll help to learn licks and techniques, but unless you try and solo a lot, they aren't going to come across in your playing. I think some one mentioned using a loop pedal, which is a smart idea because it forces you to get good at recording rhythm guitar AND soloing over it. It might also help to make loops out of songs you like and try and solo over them.
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ClaymanOnFire
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 333
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:38 pm 
 

Awblaster wrote:
Don't worry so much about the notes. Concentrate on good phrasing and rhythms. You could know all the scales in the world, but if you can't play something with a good rhythm behind it, it will not sound good. Listen to some jazz. Miles Davis was renowned for playing relatively few notes in his solos, but because his phrasing was incredible it worked.


korgull wrote:
Get a looper pedal and use it often to quickly and conveniently lay down different rhythm tracks you can practice soloing over.


That's basically how I learned. Focus on rhythm and just solo over a loop, over and over. A wah pedal is good to have too, it makes me feel more comfortable staying simple and rhythmic. Also try to keep in mind licks and melodies you've made in the past, so you can throw them in every now and then if you get a little stuck.

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dhussey111
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:51 am
Posts: 18
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:15 am 
 

i am just a new guitarist and learning from my teacher he have a experience of 8 year's and he is really good at guitar.. and your post is really nice thanks for the information
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