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ShadowKamelot
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:26 pm
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:01 pm 
 

Hey guys, I've been doing vocals for probably 3 years now, starting off with harshes, but I've been focusing on clean singing way more lately. Here's some covers, if anyone wants to check them out. Critique, give advice, praise, bash, whatever you want. ;p

"Tears for a Father" - Seventh Wonder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGxOUx4LcuM

"Love You To Death" - Kamelot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwXumkXDGeE&feature=plcp


Could never use enough advice, guys! Cheers!

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4988
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:36 pm 
 

I've been practicing Raise Hell by Outworld to work on my mounting screams (or air raid sirens or whatever they're called). I'm starting to think it's impossible to get right.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4570
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:57 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
I've been practicing Raise Hell by Outworld to work on my mounting screams (or air raid sirens or whatever they're called). I'm starting to think it's impossible to get right.


:lol: Outworld are fucking hard to imitate. Goodluck with that. Granted, I can nail some verses of ''Warcry'' if my ears aren't tricking me into thinking the notes are actually G5's instead of F5's. Really, really challenging however. I can nail the TURNING ME INTO THIS THAT I'VE BECOMEEEEEEEEEEEEE line in ''I, Thanatos'' however.

I should record some random sections of songs but god damn, there's so much I want to sing.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4988
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:00 pm 
 

They really are. Fucking Kelly Carpenter is inhuman man. Though Warcry is pretty easy, Raise Hell is challenging because of his apparently limitless breath and control. Raissseee HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAA!
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4570
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:09 pm 
 

Ehh, easy? :lol: I'd say ''not as hard but still one challenge of a song''. Hey, here's an idea: we both record our versions of it and put it. What do you think? Would be a cool idea to hear how a baritone vs tenor would do.


Though we're both aware of the fact that I'm the better heavy metal screamer here.

The ''Raise Hell'' scream sound pretty sick indeed. Kelly's one of my favourite vocalists. Too bad his bands aren't so good.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4988
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:10 pm 
 

Hahaha, I'm up for it. I'll PM you.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2211
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:28 pm 
 

ShadowKamelot wrote:
Hey guys ..
Could never use enough advice, guys! Cheers!

1) Stand up. Cee Lo is the only person I've seen who can actually sing properly sitting down. :)
2) Just take a class .. it's easier and faster, I think.
3) Don't stop! You obviously like doing it.
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TheStormIRide wrote:
Strange whistling vocals in human monster? Color me intrigued.

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d1g1c0ck
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 1:24 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Faroe Islands
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:59 pm 
 

I need help on tortured vocals. How do you maintain force?

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Awblaster
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:07 pm
Posts: 471
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:33 pm 
 

Leave the thumbscrews on.

I really need to work on my clean vocals, gonna get some lessons soon...

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Carpathianchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:34 pm
Posts: 387
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:35 am 
 

Tortured vocals require no help what so ever. If you want them to sound convincing just scream as much as possible and try to create an aggressive mind set.

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d1g1c0ck
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 1:24 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Faroe Islands
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:56 am 
 

Carpathianchrist wrote:
Tortured vocals require no help what so ever. If you want them to sound convincing just scream as much as possible and try to create an aggressive mind set.

Is there no way to do them, without tearing my vocal chords to shreds? I'd like to switch between tortured, growls and clean.

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Jessie117
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 9
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:54 pm 
 

d1g1c0ck wrote:
Carpathianchrist wrote:
Tortured vocals require no help what so ever. If you want them to sound convincing just scream as much as possible and try to create an aggressive mind set.

Is there no way to do them, without tearing my vocal chords to shreds? I'd like to switch between tortured, growls and clean.


Yes, you can growl without ruining your voice. Focus on growling from your diaphragm instead of your throat - as a wise man once elegantly put it, "you use the same muscles that you use to take a shit." With some practice, it'll be second-nature, and they sound better when done correctly anyway.
As for switching between growling and clean...this is easier for some vocalists than others. Personally, I find that my clean range is actually expanded after I've spent some time growling - I think it loosens up the vocal cords or something. But it also affects your control, and after a while, even if you're doing it correctly, your throat may become sore - especially when you're just starting out. Even the best vocalists don't usually keep going after two hours or so.

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Jessie117
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 9
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:58 pm 
 

By the way, maybe someone can help me out? I want to know if there's any way to improve my breath support. I run out of breath more quickly than I would like, which is getting to be a problem when I growl. I'm pretty small, which really doesn't help...

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:19 pm 
 

Just google some breathing excersises, you should learn to breath letting all the air go down (by expanding your belly instead of your ribcage) and get used to control how much you release release so you know how to manage it better.
Though I'm tall I am rather small-framed and never had problems with the airflow, you just need practise, so don't worry about that. Also, learning when and where you can take breath between the lines you're singing without rupturing the flow of the music is quite important, so pay attention to that.
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Jessie117
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 9
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:06 pm 
 

For some reason I've never heard that before, but it makes sense. Thanks :)

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2211
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:19 pm 
 

Jessie: In addition to what garthmarengi advised, I'm not sure what you're warm-up technique is, but it's vital to prime the whole apparatus not only to improve performance, but also to help avoid injury. Acting warm-ups as well as singing warm-ups should be consulted.

Something I've found to work well is before you belt one out, take a series of deep, rapid breaths .. basically some huff-and-puff bellows action leading into the scream itself. Apply proper technique and control to the scream itself and it will surprise you how long it lasts. As an example, you can find Maynard Keenan employing this in his lyrical lead-ups to really long cries.
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TheStormIRide wrote:
Strange whistling vocals in human monster? Color me intrigued.

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d1g1c0ck
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 1:24 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Faroe Islands
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:13 pm 
 

Sorry, accidentally pm'ed it to you
Jessie117 wrote:
Yes, you can growl without ruining your voice. Focus on growling from your diaphragm instead of your throat - as a wise man once elegantly put it, "you use the same muscles that you use to take a shit." With some practice, it'll be second-nature, and they sound better when done correctly anyway.
As for switching between growling and clean...this is easier for some vocalists than others. Personally, I find that my clean range is actually expanded after I've spent some time growling - I think it loosens up the vocal cords or something. But it also affects your control, and after a while, even if you're doing it correctly, your throat may become sore - especially when you're just starting out. Even the best vocalists don't usually keep going after two hours or so.

It's not the growling I'm having a problem with, it's the tortured vocals, like the ones at around 1:04 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfqRYozo9fs

As for your question with the breathing. If you smoke, you should consider quitting, also if you have asthma, get some medicine for that. I smoke and have asthma, and the longest growls I do last 4-5 seconds, which isn't close to how long I want to growl.

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Jessie117
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 9
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:39 pm 
 

d1g1c0ck wrote:
It's not the growling I'm having a problem with, it's the tortured vocals, like the ones at around 1:04 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfqRYozo9fs

As for your question with the breathing. If you smoke, you should consider quitting, also if you have asthma, get some medicine for that. I smoke and have asthma, and the longest growls I do last 4-5 seconds, which isn't close to how long I want to growl.


I don't smoke and I don't have asthma. I'd recommend you follow your own advice there...you really don't want to ruin your lungs.
Anyway, the same rules basically apply whether you're "growling" (low) or "tortured/screaming" (high). It's basically just a matter of raising the pitch.

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693
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:55 am
Posts: 626
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:54 pm 
 

I recently been thinking of taking some vocal lessons. As I always wanted to sing. I used to "sing" in a black metal band many years ago, but I'm not really interested in singing that way anymore. I really want to learn how to sing clean. I've tried to sing along to records a lot and emulate how other singers sing, which I guess is a bad idea. They always seem to sing so far away from my normal voice. Only recently I started to listen to faith no more, and found that this is the only music I can relax and sing pretty much with my normal voice to. I wonder if anyone who knows stuff about singing can tell me other singers who have basically similar singing voice?

I also wonder which technique and exercises I should look into, to become a better singer. I currently know nothing on the matter and just try to get to know my own voice. Any feedback would be appreciated!

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6527
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:22 am 
 

693, by your normal voice, do you refer to a vocal range about equal to that of your speaking voice?
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Illusions Dead - death/black metal

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693
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:55 am
Posts: 626
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:09 pm 
 

No, I mean how my voice sounds naturally, without trying to sound like somone else. so I guess what i mean is my range. and I can sing some of the faith no more stuff, without trying to change my voice.

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OvercomeTheFear93
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Posts: 1
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:02 pm 
 

I started doing clean vocals from scratch. I'd suggest that you pick a band with a vocalist that applies very good and accurate clean vocals. For example, and inb4 hate, Killswitch Engage. Despite not having a very extensive vocal range, Howard can sing very fully and accurately. Try to sing along with the CD. If you already have an ear for hearing notes, then it will just take time to perfect your pitch accuracy. If you are having trouble finding the pitches, I suggest practicing with a piano or guitar. Play a note, and try to sing it as accurately as possible. A person can often be fooled into thinking they can sing, but in reality, need some work. Singing is just like any instrument, it takes a long time to perfect.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6527
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:49 am 
 

693 wrote:
No, I mean how my voice sounds naturally, without trying to sound like somone else. so I guess what i mean is my range. and I can sing some of the faith no more stuff, without trying to change my voice.

You said you had trouble singing many metal songs in your normal voice. Unless vocal range is a problem, why can't you sing them in your normal voice? My voice is nothing like Ian Gillan's, and I enjoy singing Soldier of Fortune once in a while.
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"Behold, wizard, for the last time how the sun looks, for henceforth you will watch it with empty sockets!"
Illusions Dead - death/black metal

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Metallic Shock
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 pm
Posts: 408
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:09 pm 
 

Does anyone have any tips on how to sustain black metal screams? Like for example Shagrath's in the beginning of "Alt Lys Er Svunnet Hen". I am primarily a clean vocalist but I have been learning more harsh vocal styles to use for variety and I can definitely get a good kind of Mikael Stanne tone but I run out of breath quickly and can't sustain the notes very well.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6527
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:12 pm 
 

Metallic Shock wrote:
Does anyone have any tips on how to sustain black metal screams? Like for example Shagrath's in the beginning of "Alt Lys Er Svunnet Hen". I am primarily a clean vocalist but I have been learning more harsh vocal styles to use for variety and I can definitely get a good kind of Mikael Stanne tone but I run out of breath quickly and can't sustain the notes very well.

I can't give concretical advice, but the secret is in being able to emit a scream with as little air flow as possible. Listen to Cryptopsy's Open Face Surgery. Nobody has lungs large enough to actually scream that long. Greening's advanced technique allows him to emit a screaming sound without actually screaming.
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"Behold, wizard, for the last time how the sun looks, for henceforth you will watch it with empty sockets!"
Illusions Dead - death/black metal

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Barkskin
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:41 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:13 pm 
 

693 wrote:
No, I mean how my voice sounds naturally, without trying to sound like somone else. so I guess what i mean is my range. and I can sing some of the faith no more stuff, without trying to change my voice.


To avoid copying someone else it's helpful to sing along with songs featuring singers of other gender. I'd rather sing along with singers whose voices are extremely different from your's. Being sure that you can't reach "this singer's" pitch anyway lets you concentrate more on "what" he sings instead of "how" he does it. Interpret lyrics and melody and make it your own. Otherwise you'll end in a cover band. (Which isn't that bad^^)
Another good way to train your tune and get a feeling for your own voice is singing along with singable melodic guitar solos. Gary Moore or classic Metal bands like Maiden or Judas Priest deliver enough stuff to practise. Doubling a guitar solo with your voice is also a nice preparation for doubling lead vocals/adding chorus to recordings.
The notes you strike easily are your "Strength". Good to know this. Expand from there. Notes you could only strike on a perfect day will be your weakness. Avoiding weaknesses while emphasizing strengthes = personal style :-).

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Glentxa
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 am
Posts: 328
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:44 am 
 

Is it normal to do your throat in/half lose your voice when you first start doing harsh vocals? Does it get better with practice or will it keep getting worse and damage my throat? Cheers.
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sourlows
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 210
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:04 am 
 

Glentxa wrote:
Is it normal to do your throat in/half lose your voice when you first start doing harsh vocals? Does it get better with practice or will it keep getting worse and damage my throat? Cheers.

it's trial and error at first. once you find a comfortable technique that doesn't hurt your voice you can easily recall it. experiment but don't kill your voice.

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Wet Pussy
Waterlogged

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 4323
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:34 am 
 

Did this for a friend's "Community Grind" project, would like feedback on the vocals.

http://soundcloud.com/sammy_buay/harami ... vocal-take
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Paki thvg music, My Extreme Metal/Punk Label

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Glentxa
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 am
Posts: 328
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:10 am 
 

sourlows wrote:
Glentxa wrote:
Is it normal to do your throat in/half lose your voice when you first start doing harsh vocals? Does it get better with practice or will it keep getting worse and damage my throat? Cheers.

it's trial and error at first. once you find a comfortable technique that doesn't hurt your voice you can easily recall it. experiment but don't kill your voice.

Thanks :)
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Zerberus wrote:
I recon this would sound better if everything was different.

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wyzt
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 437
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:28 am 
 

My fairly new band just released a new song...Im on guitars and vox, but I'm pretty proud of how the vox came out so figured I'd share...in my post history im sure theres a few posts of some SUPER shitty vocal covers I did in the past, so this is def a step up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAMbzXOvgzk
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Nucleus - Chicago Death Metal

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4570
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm 
 

I'll try to record myself a bit more often so I can actually hear what I sound like. I did a section of Virgin Steele ''I Will Come For You'' but wasn't so happy with the outcome: I can hit the right notes and everything but my voice sounds quite light and not too powerful.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4988
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:27 pm 
 

A lot of the power comes from how it's produced though, mate. Unless you're a crazy powerhouse like Russel Allen.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4570
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:52 am 
 

Haha, yeah, I suppose. Also I must consider my age...I suppose my voice (after a shitload of training) would sound more mature and fuller at, say, the age of 25. I'm 18 now so I still got a lot to do work on. I'm sure I'll turn out to be an alright singer...but for now it's rather frustrating cause I want so much in little time. :P

Thinking of what song I should request to practice when vocal lessons start again. Some semi-high stuff would do the job well i think. Right now I can't decide which I should pick, either Fates Warning's ''Through Different Eyes'' or ''Nothing Left to Say''. Both songs aren't hard for me because the vocal lines are quite simple, compared to, say, John Arch stuff or early Dream Theater. The former has some nice high vocal lines going on during the chorus and bridge while latter some high shrieks at the end while the lines before it are soft and on midrange. Both songs will probably work out.

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Orthodox Caveman
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:19 am
Posts: 96
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:19 am 
 

Wet Pussy wrote:
Did this for a friend's "Community Grind" project, would like feedback on the vocals.

http://soundcloud.com/sammy_buay/harami ... vocal-take


You've got some old school vocals going on, man! Napalm Death (Lee Dorrian), Disrupt (Pete Kamarinos, Jay Stiles), Assück. Nice job. Work on your timing, though. At the end you're losing your timing which gets rid of the attack in your vocals.

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The_Black_Priest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 188
Location: India
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:01 pm 
 

Well, I growl for my band. But, I want to add more variations to my arsenal.
Can anyone suggest me how do I sing like ICS Vortex of Dimmu Borgir?? Any tips for that?

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4988
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:30 pm 
 

I've been getting back into harsh vocals after not doing them for a while and sounding better than ever. My lows are lower, my highs are more piercing. Feels good.
_________________
lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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VincentVanGone
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 pm
Posts: 51
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:50 pm 
 

I've been doing harsh vocals on and off for almost 3 years now. I got the death growl and the high pitched black metal-esque scream down but I'm constantly trying to work on my mids. I don't want to have generic metalcore or deathcore mids. I was thinking about mids in the vein of Mudvayne's "L.D. 50" and Pantera's "The Great Southern Trendkill."

I'm aware that these bands get shit on here quite a bit but I like both of 'em. I don't know how to describe them (you'd have to listen to them yourselves.) I wouldn't really say Phil Anselmo or Chad Gray are growling. It's quite easy to hear what they are saying.
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Megrimmtroll
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:12 am
Posts: 54
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:51 pm 
 

I have been singing Black Metal vocals for several years, I find that my style has changed over the years. So it is a slow evolving process, The thing I find the hardest is staying focused. When I am I can just kind of growl the words out with a harsh bark :-D but it is keeping the focus to be able to maintain this type of vocal, does anyone else have this problem? :)

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6527
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:07 pm 
 

With regular growls, that sounds somewhat familiar. Mostly keeping the touch to the best growling tone is quite difficult, but practice makes the master. The very high screams done using a basic growl technique are much easier to maintain, but that style is obviously much less versatile and only suitable for constant use in black metal.
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