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~Guest 152635
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 687
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:45 am 
 

These should be merged, insignificant name change..
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Decay/51273
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Decayed/1382

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:47 am 
 

Done.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:06 pm 
 

Deleted Dreariness for being a black metal internal bickering circus and no apparent physical release at this point.
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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:09 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
being a black metal internal bickering circus

Alright, I'm intrigued - can you elaborate? :D
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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 4014
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:34 am 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
Alright, I'm intrigued - can you elaborate? :D

https://www.facebook.com/Dreariness.Off ... 8189964881

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:55 am 
 

Also DrearinessOfficial vs. Dreariness OFFICIAL.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1703
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:35 pm 
 

That was very amusing reading! Like a goat damned black metal soap opera!

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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7601
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:27 pm 
 

Let's hope the black metal circus doesn't come here to complain about not being on the archives!

Here's some "metalcore" that's not really metal:

Metalcore with very little metal and basically no guitar riffing. There are a few metalcore harmony riffs thrown in there, but at least half of their music is just chugging/breakdowns. It's like a C-rate clone of The Ghost Inside, who aren't on the archives because they're not metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Hop ... 540283806#
http://www.myspace.com/hopelessnation

I only listened to one song by these guys because the demo is really sloppy, but it doesn't sound like metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Inbryo/124802#
http://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_songs/1553921

I'm not sure if this is metal, but it certainly isn't melodic death/thrash metal (seems like every band from CT is labeled that).
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Jud ... 3540317920
http://www.myspace.com/555845086

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Carpathianchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:34 pm
Posts: 386
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:28 pm 
 

Yeah it was hilarious. To be fair though some of the music is extremely good for DSBM, which is usually lame and pathetic.

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Carpathianchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:34 pm
Posts: 386
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:30 pm 
 

Drama is yet to lead up to the soap opera epic that is Gorgoroth.

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wildshadow
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:23 am 
 

About the posts of the user - MadMetalMachine

he's saying he owns the 7'' of Amethyst (UK) and he says it's like early Bon Jovi and Hard Rock ....

well, it seems his arrogancy comes from the fact that he ONLY knows the 7''.

If he have listened their demo he wouldn't have posted such a thing...

And here are some more tracks even not featured in the demo :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRt4hoPB ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRzSV5vJ ... ure=relmfu

I think they deserve to be in MA...

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ExEcutionEr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:53 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:56 am 
 

Can one check this band please? Labeled as "Alternative Rock"...
http://www.metal-archives.com/band/view/id/11102

Here's two working download links:
http://www.mediaboom.org/320216-jughead ... -2002.html
Says its genre is "Progressive Metal".

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:24 am 
 

Side-project.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metal Sloth

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 3928
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:07 pm 
 

Another Messiah?
Questionably metal except for a couple of elements here and there, but maybe I'm missing something (like the EP?). ~

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ano ... siah/15556

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GbDsqZA6Ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OynuHQ8 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BA27Tm4fhU

*shrug*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTol1eySBug
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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:24 pm 
 

Well, the band was submitted by a moderator, and the EP was the only album the band had released at the time of submission, so it'd probably be wise to try to find samples for that album before a mod deletes it.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metal Sloth

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 3928
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:27 pm 
 

Yes that's a good idea. I couldn't find anything from the EP, but then again, I'm new at this, so I probably missed something obvious ...

+ report submitted for genre change as the qualified should perhaps reevaluate the doom qualification considering the content of "Dark Dreams, My Child".
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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7601
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:58 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Anorma/22649
http://www.myspace.com/anorma
Sounds like Static X, seriously.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ble ... name/24612
http://www.myspace.com/blessedbethyname
Mostly non-metal, gothic/industrial stuff. Lacks guitars a lot of the time.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Brain/3540322014
http://www.reverbnation.com/brainmetal
Post-hardcore/metalcore with lots of electronics. Less metal riffing than At All Cost, who were removed and are sort of similar in style. The first 90 seconds of the first song are metal, and bits of the second one. Third is electronic, fourth is unbelievably terrible so you'll have to listen to it yourself because it defies description.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Dar ... lle/21097#
http://www.myspace.com/darkgamballe
Sounds like Drowning Pool mixed with Linkin Park and a bit more electronica.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/C-Fiction/110020
http://www.myspace.com/cfiction
Breakdown-oriented hardcore like Terror/Madball/Agnostic Front/Bury Your Dead. There's some random singing and Dimebag/Zakk squeals, but it's primarily hardcore.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/C-Rom/105200
http://www.myspace.com/cromthewindingstar
Primarily electronic.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Deus.exe/105943
http://www.myspace.com/deusexe
I suppose this is borderline - they alternate between non-metal electronics/clean singing and guitar-driven parts that range from Fear Factory's industrial metal style to being borrowed from The Dillinger Escape Plan.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Evil_Adam/30814
http://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_songs/60413
I guess it does say "alternative metal" but a lot of this ranges from nu-metal to pop-punk with a thick guitar tone.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Evi ... ath/122406
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/evilside2
"Techno thrash" seems to be more techno than metal.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Fat ... 540257318#
http://www.myspace.com/fatherofsin69
I don't even know what this is but I don't think it's metal.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/FearOfHatred/85510
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE4PDh-j9_E
I don't know what to call this but it certainly isn't "Gothic Industrial Death Metal". Programmed drums, 8th notes on guitar, and shouting.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Gac ... als/102533
http://www.myspace.com/gacyballoonanimals
All of the instruments are programmed including the guitars - the FruityLoops "Slayer" plugin is used to synthesize those guitars.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Fragment/24568#
http://www.myspace.com/fragmenttroncfluxunknown
Hardcore/nu-metal with some industrial noises. It's all chugging and shouting.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Hea ... ll/102366#
http://www.myspace.com/heavenlytriptohell562
Nu-metal, less metal than Drowning Pool.

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MadMetalMachine
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:51 am
Posts: 49
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:44 am 
 

wildshadow wrote:
About the posts of the user - MadMetalMachine

he's saying he owns the 7'' of Amethyst (UK) and he says it's like early Bon Jovi and Hard Rock ....

well, it seems his arrogancy comes from the fact that he ONLY knows the 7''.

If he have listened their demo he wouldn't have posted such a thing...

And here are some more tracks even not featured in the demo :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRt4hoPB ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRzSV5vJ ... ure=relmfu

I think they deserve to be in MA...



Oh poor ,poor man you are.This band were accepted just with single release (With no samples as it's happened in a lot of cases back in time).Also if someone "ripped" these latter recordings from youtube and named them as "Demo" it doesn't mean its from REAL CASSETTE.I've seen so many similar tricks.man who just want to show off, rips some tracks of unknown band from MySpace , Youtube or Reverbnation and post these on some blog as "UBER OBSCURE / RARE DEMO".

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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:07 am 
 

MadMetalMachine wrote:
Also if someone "ripped" these latter recordings from youtube and named them as "Demo" it doesn't mean its from REAL CASSETTE.I've seen so many similar tricks.man who just want to show off, rips some tracks of unknown band from MySpace , Youtube or Reverbnation and post these on some blog as "UBER OBSCURE / RARE DEMO".

You know, that would almost make sense if the person uploading the videos wasn't a member of the band. :roll:
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:12 am 
 

@Zodi: I've deleted everything except:

Deus.exe - I think they're metal enough.
Evil Side of Math - Not entirely sure based on http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/evilside2, but the guitars are pretty thrash/metal. I'd say they're okay, based on http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/evilside
Father of Sin - Not sure, this is some pretty stupid midtempo/slow chugging, "death" should definitely be removed, though...
Fear of Hatred - That Youtube video sounded rather metal to me, to be honest. We'd need some more samples in any case... The genre might need to be changed, yeah.

PS: Haven't checked out your post before the last one, there's just so much crap I can take in one go. :P
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MadMetalMachine
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:51 am
Posts: 49
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:31 am 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
MadMetalMachine wrote:
Also if someone "ripped" these latter recordings from youtube and named them as "Demo" it doesn't mean its from REAL CASSETTE.I've seen so many similar tricks.man who just want to show off, rips some tracks of unknown band from MySpace , Youtube or Reverbnation and post these on some blog as "UBER OBSCURE / RARE DEMO".

You know, that would almost make sense if the person uploading the videos wasn't a member of the band. :roll:


And IT MAKES SENSE since There's NO MENTION OF ANY DEMO TAPE on these videos !!! Well another person called Locutusme uploaded song from the band (I think he just asked this former member for MP3 and named this as "DEMO") .He even used image from this auction (But who can confirm that this is the same band???) :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... true&rt=nc

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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:14 am 
 

Well, shit, man, those songs had to come from somewhere, right? And I don't see any ulterior motive that would drive someone to *pretend* to be one of the members of an old forgotten metal band.

Point is, the band appears to have more releases than the lone single listed on MA, and the material on those releases is definitely metal. In fact, that split you just linked might be the reason that no "demo" has been explicitly mentioned by the band - 'cause, you know, splits aren't demos.
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MadMetalMachine
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:51 am
Posts: 49
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:50 pm 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
Well, shit, man, those songs had to come from somewhere, right? And I don't see any ulterior motive that would drive someone to *pretend* to be one of the members of an old forgotten metal band.

Point is, the band appears to have more releases than the lone single listed on MA, and the material on those releases is definitely metal. In fact, that split you just linked might be the reason that no "demo" has been explicitly mentioned by the band - 'cause, you know, splits aren't demos.


Well This band WERE ACCEPTED back in 2004 just by 45 Record from 1987 and it's NOT METAL.

Today I even asked band a question on YouTube and got an answer :

Question :I have 45 Record of AMETHYST - "Take me to the limit" but it sounds like totally different band.There's even keyboards used on 7" and songs are much more radio friendly.

Answer : Ha ha, yes indeed! I can tell you, it IS the same band, that was done in the mid 80s in an attempt to be a bit more 'commercial' but, unfortunately, it was a bad mistake! I believe our review in KERRANG went some thing like... "Take me to the limit, take me to the sky", why don't you just fuck off and die!! Hence our return to a more METAL sound!

SO It just shows that I'M RIGHT.Everything happened BEFORE someone unearthed Recent Youtube Videos.And there's no evidence of any demos.You can ask the band if they had any demos out and IF DEMOS WERE AVAILABLE AT SHOWS.

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~Guest 152635
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 687
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:01 pm 
 

TheM
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/TheM/3540347337

Full split: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKYr6LSCmhU

When I first submitted it, I thought it was a traditional split (one band after another style). The tracklist is now up and in this video, which is the full release, TheM's part lines up with the non-metal parts. I could be wrong, but I think this should probably be removed. I am sorry for this. The sample on the label's website also made me think otherwise.

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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:31 pm 
 

MadMetalMachine wrote:
SO It just shows that I'M RIGHT.

...About what? It's quite clear now that the band is metal, so I don't even know what you're griping about at this point.
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MadMetalMachine
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:51 am
Posts: 49
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:07 pm 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
MadMetalMachine wrote:
SO It just shows that I'M RIGHT.

...About what? It's quite clear now that the band is metal, so I don't even know what you're griping about at this point.


IT'S CLEAR that 7" RECORD this band were submited to metal-archives IS'T METAL.It's CLEAR.It was back in 2004.But none wanted to believe.band were submited without samples.I know that because a lot of people back in a day submited bands from various resources,

Take for example http://www.irishrock.org/

C'mon.One user just submited all bands under HEAVY METAL Tag (And without samples).Mind you,that back in 2004/05 there were not so many rips as it is today floating in various blogs.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:47 pm 
 

Okay, so let me get this straight.

[*]Amethyst released one vinyl single, which -according to M3's word- isn't metal. Let's keep in mind that we have so far seen no real evidence for this.

[*]There is also at least one split-tape with a band called Cyan, containing material that is metal, going by the two songs found on Youtube.

So the two problems now are:
[*]Is the tape legitimate and was it publically distributed in some way?
[*]Is the 7'' metal or not?

MadMetalMachine, it seems to me that the thing you are going on about is, that Amethyst were approved when they shouldn't have been with the evidence/samples available at that time (i.e. the 7'' alone), not necessarily that they shouldn't have been approved at all. Which is basically gloating that doesn't get anyone anywhere. "Haha, you guys fucked up even though the band may deserve to be here anyway, stoopid!". So yeah, if the single is some commercial sounding hard rock -which isn't certain at this point- we get it, mistakes happen. Non-metal bands or bands otherwise not meeting our standards get wrongly accepted once in a while? Shocker. That's not exactly news, especially for a band added back in 2004. These skeletons in the closet get unearthed all the time, as this very thread amply demonstrates.

Nevertheless, you have to understand that we can't just delete bands because someone says we should. This should be obvious. I don't know under what circumstances Amethyst were accepted, but that's really beside the point. Generally speaking, getting a band approved requires a minimum of scrutiny that justifies burden of proof once the band is in. Bands in the database are innocent until proven guilty, more or less. This is the assumption we have to work under or else the whole system becomes a joke. I'm not saying you're lying or wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if that single is whimpy radio rock, but you still need to provide more than just your word in this case.

Anyway, the goal should now be to come up with samples from the 7'' and/or confirm the split-tape release. I assume this is the guy you contacted, MadMetalMachine? I'm going to ask him later on to clear this up.
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oogboog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 947
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:58 pm 
 

This band's CD seems to be coming out on June 29th, as the label's shop still says "Pre-order".

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:38 pm 
 

oogboog wrote:
This band's CD seems to be coming out on June 29th, as the label's shop still says "Pre-order".

Bleh, my mistake. I'll restore them on Friday.
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~Guest 152635
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 687
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:00 am 
 

UndeadIdiot wrote:
TheM
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/TheM/3540347337

Full split: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKYr6LSCmhU

When I first submitted it, I thought it was a traditional split (one band after another style). The tracklist is now up and in this video, which is the full release, TheM's part lines up with the non-metal parts. I could be wrong, but I think this should probably be removed. I am sorry for this. The sample on the label's website also made me think otherwise.


Just reposting because I think it may have been overlooked due to the heated discussion. Sorry if I am wrong.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:25 am 
 

Deleted TheM.
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~Guest 152635
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 687
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:27 pm 
 

Thanks ^

Another one of my submitted bands:

Weary of Empires
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Wea ... 3540285964

I don't think this is metal, but not sure what this would be. Maybe it would be acceptable here, but I don't think so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iORv1b2qGXI

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Futuresynner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:07 am
Posts: 27
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:51 pm 
 

sofeshue wrote:
[NOT complaining the band]
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Azaxul/10103
When I try to add the "Horned Furies" demo, I get a reminder, says that this is a bootleg. But according to the additional notes, "In 2010 the master CD with those old recordings was re-found and Azaxul released the Horned furies Demo-CDR on his own label Misanthrophia Discos." Seems this is a legit release.
See also: http://www.discogs.com/Azaxul-Horned-Fu ... se/3319265


Same here, this is nothing but a bad joke. What's funny is that a single mail asking the Katharsis/Sepulchral Voice Rex guys would show that it indeed an official release Misanthrophia Discos being Azaxul's own label. But instead of asking the people involved every idiot who said something that he's heard around 3 corners is more trustful than the artists info. Hail to the internet ... ;p
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wildshadow
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:03 pm 
 

The demos of Amethyst really exist.
I'm friend of the singer and they started as a band in 1983 and splitted up in 1989.
They had 5 different line-ups.

If you only accept Demos distributed in live shows you better start deleting Tarantula (Port) demos, Valium (Port) demos, Wild Shadow (Port) Demos and half of brasilian demos pre-1991 and i'm not going to keep listing the eastern europe bands neither south/latin america bands that have demos here submitted and that were never distributed in live shows and only exist now some knowldegde about it because it were recorded dubbed copies and tape traded back in the days and because of this new interest in digging out obscure bands, contacting some of the band's old members, one can still find valuable information, photos and if you're lucky they even can provide some of their music not available anywhere else.

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~Guest 152635
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 687
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:56 am 
 

Hellgrind:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Hel ... 3540301339

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/He ... ape/293274

Not available publicly. The demo was added by the band so the information is likely to be correct, therefore, this should be removed. Sorry, the interview I submitted this with did not mention this.

Thanks for this one and Weary of Empires!


Last edited by ~Guest 152635 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

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Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:18 pm 
 

Weary of Empires and Hellgrind are gone.

wildshadow wrote:
The demos of Amethyst really exist.

Seems so. I'm in contact with a band member and he confirmed the existence of other demos and will also be sending me a compilation CD he recently put out, containing all the material they ever recorded.
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oogboog
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:06 pm 
 

So why did this band get accepted? When did they release the demo?

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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8817
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:50 pm 
 

oogboog wrote:
So why did this band get accepted? When did they release the demo?

Ummm... This might be a wild guess, but in 2012, as it says on the page, perhaps?
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Metantoine
Slave to Santa

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:53 pm 
 

That's why you're a moderator, Nap!
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caspian about CHAIRTHROWER wrote:
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oogboog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 947
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:06 pm 
 

Yeah, but last week, I had submitted this band, and it was rejected because Azmodes said that the demo was to be "released next week", which is this week. Their Facebook had nothing to be said about it, so I was wondering what GraveWish had done.

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